JN Mafia Game 2: Dawn of The Dead Edition

[Vicious89x]

It's a great play if he's mafia. It ties our hands for the day and probably soaks up an investigation. Maybe they thought the real doc would counter claim giving them the cops head on a platter????

I'd say 80% chance he's lieing, at least. But if he's telling the truth and we lynch him we lose the game, no if's and's or butts about it. I'd prefer he be confirmed via investigation frankly unless someone can make a strong case otherwise..

That's why I'm open to kinda martyr myself. Losing me is a hit to the town, but if he's the doctor the Mafia could lose out on some NK's if he coin flips correctly, protecting himself and other townies.

Then again if he's lying the REAL DOCTOR PROTECT ME, that way if the try to NK me we kill two birds with one stone, me safe, we get a mafia and then we have another shot at a lynch.

[shutout]

It's a great play if he's mafia. It ties our hands for the day and probably soaks up an investigation. Maybe they thought the real doc would counter claim giving them the cops head on a platter????

I'd say 80% chance he's lieing, at least. But if he's telling the truth and we lynch him we lose the game, no if's and's or butts about it. I'd prefer he be confirmed via investigation frankly unless someone can make a strong case otherwise..

Fair enough. Lets apply some pressure to Thor

Unvote: Woody

Vote: Thor

[ZachEY]

Norway (3) - CTM, Thor99, JVOR

WoodyPaige (3) - JiF, Irish Jet, Vicious98x

Thor99 (2) - Norway, shutout

With 14 players remaining, it takes 8 to behead.

[Vicious89x]

Are we ok going forward with my idea then?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Are we ok going forward with my idea then?

I strongly advise holding off any action until more people are posting their thoughts. This is a pivotal point in the game.

[shutout]

Are we ok going forward with my idea then?

I'd think that our best interest would be for you to investigate woody tonight.

If he protects you great, if not hopefully you get us an answer before having your brains eaten. Hopefully you're both telling the truth and the zombies pick whichever one of you is protected.

Now, where is Thor? He's a mod on the board, why is he so inactive?

[Vicious89x]

I'd think that our best interest would be for you to investigate woody tonight.

If he protects you great, if not hopefully you get us an answer before having your brains eaten. Hopefully you're both telling the truth and the zombies pick whichever one of you is protected.

Now, where is Thor? He's a mod on the board, why is he so inactive?

I think that's the best idea. What does everyone else think? Even if I die I should be able to get you the information.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

EY- What's the order of events. If the cop is night killed, does he get to share the results of his investigation?

[Vicious89x]

EY- What's the order of events. If the cop is night killed, does he get to share the results of his investigation?

I'm still allowed to talk during the night phase. I can't talk post-mortem. That's my guess

[shutout]

I'm still allowed to talk during the night phase. I can't talk post-mortem. That's my guess

Thats my thinking. You said you got the results back for SMC before he was killed right? Just gotta make sure you get your request in before the zombies put in theirs I'd guess

[Vicious89x]

Thats my thinking. You said you got the results back for SMC before he was killed right? Just gotta make sure you get your request in before the zombies put in theirs I'd guess

Yup, I think it's clear this is gonna be a race. So I'll be sitting by my computer waiting on a lynch so when we go from day to night phase I can get my investigation and post to you guys in time.

[CTM]

Yup, I think it's clear this is gonna be a race. So I'll be sitting by my computer waiting on a lynch so when we go from day to night phase I can get my investigation and post to you guys in time.

if that's the way it works then we can't hammer until you are around..

I never mod like that though...

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Let's assume the worst case scenario:

we assume they're both innocent. Which for all intents and purposes we are forced to do because it is a possibility: Here's the problem I have with the coin flip method. It's day 2. We aren't going to get lucky every night and eventually one of the two power roles are going to get killed. If woody dies first, vicious is dead the next night. If vicious dies, woody paige's protection has little value to us. He's just going to self-protect every night because without a way to verify alignments, he doesn't know who he can save.

So basically, we are just hoping 50 percent that vicious has enough time to find something substantial, which isn't even guaranteed. Let's be honest here, if they are both innocent, we aren't going to be getting much from an investigation. That's just hoping and praying we get incredibly lucky.

Let's make lemonade. I think we should mass role reveal at a designated time all at once. If possible, I think we should all PM EY something to submit at the same time so that our answers are our own.

Don't discount the idea right away. An outted cop plus an outted doctor cripples the town. What's the worst that can happen? The worst HAS happened if they are telling the truth. If there is a counter claimant cop and a counter claimant doctor, than we are guaranteed two mafia members. If there is only one of those we are guaranteed 1 mafia member plus information on all the other members PLUS we know who the real cop or doctor is.

If Vicious and WP are both lying we are no worse off than we are at the moment. They get the real cop and real doctor to come up but they sacrifice themselves in the process.

It's radical, but at this point, is there a better solution?

[Vicious89x]

if that's the way it works then we can't hammer until you are around..

I never mod like that though...

Let me put it to you that way. We lynch tomorrow, I get into work at 10:30 EST and i'm on from then till I leave which is roughly 6:30 EST.

[shutout]

Just a heads up guys I'll be working pretty much all day tomorrow. I'll be able to log in for a bit in the morning, but probably won't be back until 9pm

[Vicious89x]

Let's assume the worst case scenario:

we assume they're both innocent. Which for all intents and purposes we are forced to do because it is a possibility: Here's the problem I have with the coin flip method. It's day 2. We aren't going to get lucky every night and eventually one of the two power roles are going to get killed. If woody dies first, vicious is dead the next night. If vicious dies, woody paige's protection has little value to us. He's just going to self-protect every night because without a way to verify alignments, he doesn't know who he can save.

So basically, we are just hoping 50 percent that vicious has enough time to find something substantial, which isn't even guaranteed. Let's be honest here, if they are both innocent, we aren't going to be getting much from an investigation. That's just hoping and praying we get incredibly lucky.

Let's make lemonade. I think we should mass role reveal at a designated time all at once. If possible, I think we should all PM EY something to submit at the same time so that our answers are our own.

Don't discount the idea right away. An outted cop plus an outted doctor cripples the town. What's the worst that can happen? The worst HAS happened if they are telling the truth. If there is a counter claimant cop and a counter claimant doctor, than we are guaranteed two mafia members. If there is only one of those we are guaranteed 1 mafia member plus information on all the other members PLUS we know who the real cop or doctor is.

If Vicious and WP are both lying we are no worse off than we are at the moment. They get the real cop and real doctor to come up but they sacrifice themselves in the process.

It's radical, but at this point, is there a better solution?

JVOR, while you're idea isn't bad I think we keep it this way. I'm very confident that once we enter night phase I can get an answer out to you guys. The mafia is seeing all this action here, and will have to be ready to jump and NK one of the two of us. We're going all in heads-up basically, it's 50/50.

If we mass role reveal it really just gives too much info to mafia. We're serving it to them on a platter. They can lie. They can fit in.

Right now it's Woody and I out in the wide open. I still don't believe him FWIW.

What I'm saying is if Woody is innocent and I die and he truly is the doctor... then he can continue coin flipping between protecting himself and or a townie, and everytime the mafia goes after him it's 50/50 he lives or dies.

Here's the one warning I'm putting out to everyone. Let's remember a Godfather role can return a innocent investigation. If that's the case then what better play? He can skirt on th sacrifice of the cop with everyong assuming he's innocent. At that point I still think we're at an advantage. Why? Because there is a real doctor holding out (smartly so) at this time then he'll know the truth if Woody is indeed the Godfather.

If I return an innocent investigation and the real doctor knows the truth, I'd implore him to reveal himself then, because if we can get the Godfather role out of the way that is HUGE.

That is my best case scenario.

[Vicious89x]

Just a heads up guys I'll be working pretty much all day tomorrow. I'll be able to log in for a bit in the morning, but probably won't be back until 9pm

Damn.

[ZachEY]

As there seems to be no real rule, I'm going on the fly here, and think this the most fair way to all parties involved.

I will have to work under the assumption that all night actions were submitted instantaneously, going forward.

Therefore, a cop (if one is present) will need to survive the night to post or allude to his results.

I apologize for not anticipating a scenario for this and having a definitive answer, but I've thought about it a lot and realize I may be setting a precedent for future games and think this is the best way to go for the future.

[Vicious89x]

This really favors the mafia. Good times.

[shutout]

Damn, well whats plan B?

[Vicious89x]

If this is the case I think the townies are essentially now screwed out of their 2 power roles. Either way we are totally screwed. The coin flip is the only way to do this.

That or we lynch woody and find out the truth that way, if he's told the truth then I'm as good as gone too.

Or he's Mafia and he's just gonna float on by with NOOO problem

[Bleedin Green]

Let's assume the worst case scenario:

we assume they're both innocent. Which for all intents and purposes we are forced to do because it is a possibility: Here's the problem I have with the coin flip method. It's day 2. We aren't going to get lucky every night and eventually one of the two power roles are going to get killed. If woody dies first, vicious is dead the next night. If vicious dies, woody paige's protection has little value to us. He's just going to self-protect every night because without a way to verify alignments, he doesn't know who he can save.

So basically, we are just hoping 50 percent that vicious has enough time to find something substantial, which isn't even guaranteed. Let's be honest here, if they are both innocent, we aren't going to be getting much from an investigation. That's just hoping and praying we get incredibly lucky.

I believe part of the "coin flip" method is also the fact that it is a bit of a deterrent for the mafia to even try getting one of those two guys when they could be blocked. Especially if they KNOW they can get someone else without any resistance. It really all depends on how risky they are. Your scenario that they would eventually get one of the two assumes that they keep trying one of them every night until they get it, which of course is a possibility. Besides, we can't expect both of these guys to survive forever anyway. More than anything, we are just trying to extend their existance as long as possible in order to get as much info as we can.

I'm not overly thrilled with the idea of it, but it seems to be the best case scenario to at least slightly increase the odds of them both living. Obviously we'd be much better off not being in this situation, but thats not a choice at this point.

[shutout]

If this is the case I think the townies are essentially now screwed out of their 2 power roles. Either way we are totally screwed. The coin flip is the only way to do this.

That or we lynch woody and find out the truth that way, if he's told the truth then I'm as good as gone too.

Or he's Mafia and he's just gonna float on by with NOOO problem

We've gotta take the chance that if he's lying the real doc will protect you.

Still no sign of Thor

[Vicious89x]

Damn, well whats plan B?

Honestly I think plan B is let's lynch someone else, Woody will agree to the coin flip, which gives a 50/50 shot at pulling through the night ok. All I'll be able to do is let you guys know the truth about Woody.

I gotta be honest. This is screwing us royally. I really want Woody lynched. I'm going out on a limb here too but this is just too much of a royal screw job to NOT be mafia.

At least for me I'm protectable, you keep the doctor secret and I can stay protected for quite a while and do the most damage. How do you take that away from us? You pose as the doctor. That pulls the rug from underneath us.

Now we're scurrying, trying to figure out a way to make this work... it's not gonna work at this point.

Ok sooo here's my option, and let me say I'm open to ANYTHING the town wants to do.

We kill Woody... we find out he's the doctor. Then we lose me, and you guys are down 2. A brutal hit but you guys can focus on the game at hand.

We kill Woody, he's mafia, we win because the doctor stays secret and I can continue my work.

One more note... a brazen role reveal is what saved Jets Things last time. Quite frankly I think Woody is laughing his ass off as this and took a page out of JT's book.

[Vicious89x]

We've gotta take the chance that if he's lying the real doc will protect you.

Still no sign of Thor

I'm down with that.

The only thing I'll say is if the real doctor is out there and knows this is all a lie, do we have him keep his mouth shut if Woody is able to have a role that returns back to me as innocent. Or do we have him tell us to go after Woody.

Listen I know there's no way I'm making it deep into this game. I want to help the town with the limited time I have.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here. I'm a roleless townie. I'm betting there are a lot of roleless townies out there. I'm betting that EY copied and pasted a lot of text for said roleless townies.

So if we do a mass role reveal:

If you are a roleless townie

How many words is your original PM.

How many sentences is your original PM

If present, Replace the "Yous" in your PM with "I"

If present, Replace the word "special" with the word "role"

If present, Replace the word "of" with "off"

If present, Replace the word "mafia" with "scum"

Post it with the aforementioned edits. Is that allowed EY? I don't think that's technically a quote. If it goes against the spirit of your rules, than let me know.

If you are fellow roleless townie the task is relatively simple and you are easily absolved of innocence.

[Bleedin Green]

If this is the case I think the townies are essentially now screwed out of their 2 power roles. Either way we are totally screwed. The coin flip is the only way to do this.

That or we lynch woody and find out the truth that way, if he's told the truth then I'm as good as gone too.

Or he's Mafia and he's just gonna float on by with NOOO problem

If Woody's mafia we should actually be fine. In that case, the real doc is still out there and unknown to the mafia. So he's safe and therefore should obviously protect you and nobody else. So either the mafia tries to kill you and fails or goes after someone else. Unless they get lucky and nail the real doc, we're in good shape. Even then, you'd still be alive and have your investigation results. If Woody's legit he goes with the coin flip and we hope for the best.

[CTM]

Let's assume the worst case scenario:

we assume they're both innocent. Which for all intents and purposes we are forced to do because it is a possibility: Here's the problem I have with the coin flip method. It's day 2. We aren't going to get lucky every night and eventually one of the two power roles are going to get killed. If woody dies first, vicious is dead the next night. If vicious dies, woody paige's protection has little value to us. He's just going to self-protect every night because without a way to verify alignments, he doesn't know who he can save.

So basically, we are just hoping 50 percent that vicious has enough time to find something substantial, which isn't even guaranteed. Let's be honest here, if they are both innocent, we aren't going to be getting much from an investigation. That's just hoping and praying we get incredibly lucky.

Let's make lemonade. I think we should mass role reveal at a designated time all at once. If possible, I think we should all PM EY something to submit at the same time so that our answers are our own.

Don't discount the idea right away. An outted cop plus an outted doctor cripples the town. What's the worst that can happen? The worst HAS happened if they are telling the truth. If there is a counter claimant cop and a counter claimant doctor, than we are guaranteed two mafia members. If there is only one of those we are guaranteed 1 mafia member plus information on all the other members PLUS we know who the real cop or doctor is.

If Vicious and WP are both lying we are no worse off than we are at the moment. They get the real cop and real doctor to come up but they sacrifice themselves in the process.

It's radical, but at this point, is there a better solution?

any mass role reveal never includes a doctor reveal. is that what you are advocating?

[ZachEY]

This really favors the mafia. Good times.

If I were to make the rule based on the way you like it, I'd have to be consistent with the 'race' theme.

Then, if there is a doctor, he must cast his vote before the Zombies make their move, or else the poster would already be dead when 'the doc' got there.

Either race for everything, or no race at all.

[ZachEY]

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here. I'm a roleless townie. I'm betting there are a lot of roleless townies out there. I'm betting that EY copied and pasted a lot of text for said roleless townies.

So if we do a mass role reveal:

If you are a roleless townie

How many words is your original PM.

How many sentences is your original PM

If present, Replace the "Yous" in your PM with "I"

If present, Replace the word "special" with the word "role"

If present, Replace the word "of" with "off"

If present, Replace the word "mafia" with "scum"

Post it with the aforementioned edits. Is that allowed EY? I don't think that's technically a quote. If it goes against the spirit of your rules, than let me know.

If you are fellow roleless townie the task is relatively simple and you are easily absolved of innocence.

This is absolutely not allowed.

Why not do it from the onset and never play the game?

[Vicious89x]

If Woody's mafia we should actually be fine. In that case, the real doc is still out there and unknown to the mafia. So he's safe and therefore should obviously protect you and nobody else. So either the mafia tries to kill you and fails or goes after someone else. Unless they get lucky and nail the real doc, we're in good shape. Even then, you'd still be alive and have your investigation results. If Woody's legit he goes with the coin flip and we hope for the best.

I guess if that's the case I got nothing to lose.

If everyone is down with that then I suggest let's go after Thor. Let the night phase come and then let's do this dance.

If I die I still think you guys need to have the real doc reveal himself... otherwise Woody can skate on by with just saying "Oh bad luck for vic, I flipped myself, I'm innocent".

[Jets Voice of Reason]

any mass role reveal never includes a doctor reveal. is that what you are advocating?

I'm not. This idea is open to edits. if you advise against it's fine if they don't. I didn't think this idea through that fully. It's hard to get a good grasp on the situation to be honest.

[Vicious89x]

If I were to make the rule based on the way you like it, I'd have to be consistent with the 'race' theme.

Then, if there is a doctor, he must cast his vote before the Zombies make their move, or else the poster would already be dead when 'the doc' got there.

Either race for everything, or no race at all.

I understand that. And I think that's all a matter of when you get your PM's and would be more "fair". Obviously mafia can PM, chit chat, and figure out what they wanna do but they'd have to have a decision done at that point. If you got it in too late, sucks to be you.

But you're the boss, and them the breaks.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

This is absolutely not allowed.

Why not do it from the onset and never play the game?

Point taken. forget i mentioned it.

[Vicious89x]

I'm not. This idea is open to edits. if you advise against it's fine if they don't. I didn't think this idea through that fully. It's hard to get a good grasp on the situation to be honest.

I advise against it.

You'd be giving the mafia lots of ammo, they can lie their way through it and they'd have a field day knowing who's innocent.