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JN Mafia Game 2: Dawn of The Dead Edition


ZachEY

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I guess if that's the case I got nothing to lose.

If everyone is down with that then I suggest let's go after Thor. Let the night phase come and then let's do this dance.

If I die I still think you guys need to have the real doc reveal himself... otherwise Woody can skate on by with just saying "Oh bad luck for vic, I flipped myself, I'm innocent".

I don't see any way out of this without having the doc reveal themselves after the next night phase. Either its really woody in which case its known for sure already, or the real doctor will have to reveal themselves to prove woody is a brain eater.

Now its starting to feel like a goddamned zombie movie. No matter what moves we make, no matter how fast we run, no matter how much supplies is stockpiled and barricades are put up, we're in for some deep doo-doo

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I don't see any way out of this without having the doc reveal themselves after the next night phase. Either its really woody in which case its known for sure already, or the real doctor will have to reveal themselves to prove woody is a brain eater.

Now its starting to feel like a goddamned zombie movie. No matter what moves we make, no matter how fast we run, no matter how much supplies is stockpiled and barricades are put up, we're in for some deep doo-doo

I agree. I'd love to get some more confirmation from everyone else. Guys are we down with this scenario:

Let's go after someone else. Let the day phase come to an end with the agreement that Woody will coin flip, to protect me or himself. IF I live, I will tell you guys. In the case I die or if I come back with a BS report, meaning Woody turns up innocent and the real doctor knows it's wrong... the real doctor reveal himself.

If everyone confirms then let's get this ball rolling.

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I advise against it.

You'd be giving the mafia lots of ammo, they can lie their way through it and they'd have a field day knowing who's innocent.

What do you mean, Mafia already knows who is innocent, don't they? If the rest of us claim to be roleless townies, than that means the townies confirm you two are innocent for sure, which the mafia already knows if you are both indeed innocent.

If you are really a roleless townie, you shouldn't lie about it. Come up and say roleless townie. If you are telling the truth, than we'll only have at most one counter claimant from the mafia saying he's a cop. So if you die and it's confirmed innocent, we get a mafia member.

If YOU are lying, we likely get either one or two additional claimants. At least one being true, with a second possibly to throw suspicion in the ring. That's still advantage town because with 3 claimed cops we know 2 of them are lying. If only one counter claim, you are the mafia we have confirmed.

From CTM's advice, if you are a counter-claiming doctor, claim roleless townie. No doctor should be claiming. The exercise is to confirm the innocence of Vicious.

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I gotta be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think Woody's reveal is just waaaaaaaaay too perfect. Look at what its caused, really its the only thing that could've caused such a mess. If he had said he was just a role less townie and it probably has the reverse effect where we all immediately think he's lying but the more we think about it (assuming he didn't get to 8 votes), the more plausible it seems.

His reveal has not once seemed plausible to me, I just didn't want to take that 1% chance he wasn't lying. Right now, 1% seems like what we're counting on with this plan anyway so...

Unvote: Thor

Vote: Woody

Its the idea that makes the most sense to me

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I gotta be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think Woody's reveal is just waaaaaaaaay too perfect. Look at what its caused, really its the only thing that could've caused such a mess. If he had said he was just a role less townie and it probably has the reverse effect where we all immediately think he's lying but the more we think about it (assuming he didn't get to 8 votes), the more plausible it seems.

His reveal has not once seemed plausible to me, I just didn't want to take that 1% chance he wasn't lying. Right now, 1% seems like what we're counting on with this plan anyway so...

Unvote: Thor

Vote: Woody

Its the idea that makes the most sense to me

I think Woody is lying too. But the fact of the matter is if the doctor goes, the cop goes next and we're shooting bullets in the dark. I'd like to hear critiques on why my idea would not work.

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What do you mean, Mafia already knows who is innocent, don't they? If the rest of us claim to be roleless townies, than that means the townies confirm you two are innocent for sure, which the mafia already knows if you are both indeed innocent.

If you are really a roleless townie, you shouldn't lie about it. Come up and say roleless townie. If you are telling the truth, than we'll only have at most one counter claimant from the mafia saying he's a cop. So if you die and it's confirmed innocent, we get a mafia member.

If YOU are lying, we likely get either one or two additional claimants. At least one being true, with a second possibly to throw suspicion in the ring. That's still advantage town because with 3 claimed cops we know 2 of them are lying. If only one counter claim, you are the mafia we have confirmed.

From CTM's advice, if you are a counter-claiming doctor, claim roleless townie. No doctor should be claiming. The exercise is to confirm the innocence of Vicious.

Well we can't really do this now that EY has brought down the hammer.

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I agree. I'd love to get some more confirmation from everyone else. Guys are we down with this scenario:

Let's go after someone else. Let the day phase come to an end with the agreement that Woody will coin flip, to protect me or himself. IF I live, I will tell you guys. In the case I die or if I come back with a BS report, meaning Woody turns up innocent and the real doctor knows it's wrong... the real doctor reveal himself.

If everyone confirms then let's get this ball rolling.

Sorry, I know I just changed my mind again, its just this plan doesn't seem to be any better in my eyes than lynching our doctor (who's I'm 99.99999% certain isn't our doc)

If everyone else wants to go with the other plan, I'll do my best to get to a computer and go along with the rest of the town, but for now I just can't get over how calculated and "perfect" woody's reveal is.

Put it this way, hoping that a coin flip works is a Herm Edwards/Eric Mangini call. I'm making the Rex Ryan decision and calling an all out blitz (or as it were, calling BS on WP)

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Well we can't really do this now that EY has brought down the hammer.

He brought down the hammer on something else, I don't think he's talking about mass role reveal. If he is, i'll drop it right now. We don't need to PM EY anything, we could always designate a time or something. We don't have to quote anything or go into specifics, just say your role. "roleless townie" "cop" or whatever.

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Sorry, I know I just changed my mind again, its just this plan doesn't seem to be any better in my eyes than lynching our doctor (who's I'm 99.99999% certain isn't our doc)

If everyone else wants to go with the other plan, I'll do my best to get to a computer and go along with the rest of the town, but for now I just can't get over how calculated and "perfect" woody's reveal is.

Put it this way, hoping that a coin flip works is a Herm Edwards/Eric Mangini call. I'm making the Rex Ryan decision and calling an all out blitz (or as it were, calling BS on WP)

Lol, that's my hope. And I'm putting MY neck on the line for it. If we kill Woody and he's the doctor guess what, either I'll be NK'd or lynched.

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I think Woody is lying too. But the fact of the matter is if the doctor goes, the cop goes next and we're shooting bullets in the dark. I'd like to hear critiques on why my idea would not work.

I don't think a mass reveal will work. Right now I'd guess that no one would counter claim either Woody or Vicious. Mafia zombies would just reveal themselves to be fellow "role less townies" and we'd still be here just spinning our wheels.

Aren't you guys sick and tired of playing not to lose? I sure as **** am, and I want to play to win. Way too much has to fall in place for the night phase to go right for us. Yeah if we're wrong we lose both the doc and the cop. But if we're right (and I really think I am), we still have a doctor out there to protect Vicious tonight who can investigate someone else with the mafia reeling.

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He brought down the hammer on something else, I don't think he's talking about mass role reveal. If he is, i'll drop it right now. We don't need to PM EY anything, we could always designate a time or something. We don't have to quote anything or go into specifics, just say your role. "roleless townie" "cop" or whatever.

Sure. I'm the detective. Lol

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Lol, that's my hope. And I'm putting MY neck on the line for it. If we kill Woody and he's the doctor guess what, either I'll be NK'd or lynched.

If we kill woody and he's the doctor, odds are you get NK'ed, and I get lynched for leading the charge and costing us our doctor and our cop. I still think its better odds. I'm willing to bet both our virtual lives on it.

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If we kill woody and he's the doctor, odds are you get NK'ed, and I get lynched for leading the charge and costing us our doctor and our cop. I still think its better odds. I'm willing to bet both our virtual lives on it.

Either way I'm gonna die somehow. I'm a blaze of glory type of guy. I'm sticking with my vote on Woody. If the town turns in another direction... I'll follow. I do want to do what is best for the town.

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What has to happen for us to make it out of this night phase all right?

Woody is the actual doctor and protects the right person that the mafia goes after. If this happens, we get no new info from Vicious other than Woody is innocent and we're still looking for someone suspicious.

Woody is lying, the real doctor is hiding and protects vicious, who discovers woody is a zombie, in which case we've waited an extra day to chop his head off and maybe we get lucky and Thor is a zombie and not just inactive.

Like I said, I feel like I'm in a zombie movie now, and I don't know about everybody else, but I've never been one who'd be interested in sitting around and waiting for the day they all break down our barricades and eat us. Lets make a run at this, try to do some damage to them, and get ourselves to safety.

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What has to happen for us to make it out of this night phase all right?

Woody is the actual doctor and protects the right person that the mafia goes after. If this happens, we get no new info from Vicious other than Woody is innocent and we're still looking for someone suspicious.

Woody is lying, the real doctor is hiding and protects vicious, who discovers woody is a zombie, in which case we've waited an extra day to chop his head off and maybe we get lucky and Thor is a zombie and not just inactive.

Like I said, I feel like I'm in a zombie movie now, and I don't know about everybody else, but I've never been one who'd be interested in sitting around and waiting for the day they all break down our barricades and eat us. Lets make a run at this, try to do some damage to them, and get ourselves to safety.

It's either run n gun or play it conservative. Conservative we go after someone else, and hope it all works out.

Aggressive we lynch Woody and sort the mess out later. It's my ass on the line.

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Okay, maybe you guys are right. Like I said, I was just trying to think of a decent plan that makes everyone happier, but i don't think that's really possible with the spot we are in right now.

To be perfectly honest, if Woodypaige is actually innocent he really screwed the pooch here. I'm 95 percent positive he's lying, but it's that 5 percent that is dominating the conversation because it's the worst case scenario that we all worry about.

Shutout, if you really think Woody is lying I think it's advisable you don't lynch him right now. Let Vicious do an investigation tonight, and if Woody is lying, we'll find out about it. If Woody is lying, a doctor is out there that will save Vicious. And this way, we don't throw the dice when we don't have to. I took a long time getting there, but I think the coin flip idea has some merit especially since I find Woody suspicious.

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Okay, maybe you guys are right. Like I said, I was just trying to think of a decent plan that makes everyone happier, but i don't think that's really possible with the spot we are in right now.

To be perfectly honest, if Woodypaige is actually innocent he really screwed the pooch here. I'm 95 percent positive he's lying, but it's that 5 percent that is dominating the conversation because it's the worst case scenario that we all worry about.

Shutout, if you really think Woody is lying I think it's advisable you don't lynch him right now. Let Vicious do an investigation tonight, and if Woody is lying, we'll find out about it. If Woody is lying, a doctor is out there that will save Vicious. And this way, we don't throw the dice when we don't have to. I took a long time getting there, but I think the coin flip idea has some merit especially since I find Woody suspicious.

We're not in a night phase... we gotta kill someone to get there.

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We're not in a night phase... we gotta kill someone to get there.

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying this has the potential to be sorted out in the night phase. If you truly think Woody is guilty, which I think a lot of us do, make him the day 3 lynch instead of the day 2 lynch. Any cop should investigate Woodypaige tonight. If there is a "real" cop outside of vicious he already knows vicious is guilty.

Vicious, if you get anything other than doctor, Woody is mafia. It doesn't matter if Woody comes up as an innocent, he would have lied about being a doctor. This way, we don't even have to worry about lynching the doctor without confirmation.

If you truly believe Woody is guilty, then there is another doctor out there to save Vicious. (Which he should do) If Woody is innocent, the coin flip will make it tough for the mafia to choose.

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We're not in a night phase... we gotta kill someone to get there.

Yep, and sadly right now Woody is by far the most suspicious.

Thor? War? Irish? Yeah they've been inactive, but haven't done anything too suspicious.

The flip the coin scenario is low risk/low reward. Too much has to fall right for us. Too many if's for my liking. Like Vicious said, take care of business now, worry about the consequences later.

Again though, if we're the only 2 that feel this way and everyone else in the town wants to go the other way I'll do my best to be available to do whats in everyone's best interest.

Food for thought though: If Woody is telling the truth, the mafia now knows who the doctor is. Wouldn't at least one of them jumped at the chance to start piling up votes against him to eliminate the doctor? They've gotta know if Woody gets beheaded and is the doctor, Vicious and I are gonna take the fall, not them. Why have none of them jumped at that? They'd have to see they'd be getting rid of 3 townies with that move (doctor woody paige during the day, cop vicious at night, and shutout beheaded for costing both doc and cop next day).

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Yeah, I know. I'm just saying this has the potential to be sorted out in the night phase. If you truly think Woody is guilty, which I think a lot of us do, make him the day 3 lynch instead of the day 2 lynch. Any cop should investigate Woodypaige tonight. If there is a "real" cop outside of vicious he already knows vicious is guilty.

Vicious, if you get anything other than doctor, Woody is mafia. It doesn't matter if Woody comes up as an innocent, he would have lied about being a doctor. This way, we don't even have to worry about lynching the doctor without confirmation.

If you truly believe Woody is guilty, then there is another doctor out there to save Vicious. (Which he should do) If Woody is innocent, the coin flip will make it tough for the mafia to choose.

I didnt know smc was a roleless townie... that could mean that i wouldnt' find out roles, just innocent or not.

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Yep, and sadly right now Woody is by far the most suspicious.

Thor? War? Irish? Yeah they've been inactive, but haven't done anything too suspicious.

The flip the coin scenario is low risk/low reward. Too much has to fall right for us. Too many if's for my liking. Like Vicious said, take care of business now, worry about the consequences later.

Again though, if we're the only 2 that feel this way and everyone else in the town wants to go the other way I'll do my best to be available to do whats in everyone's best interest.

Food for thought though: If Woody is telling the truth, the mafia now knows who the doctor is. Wouldn't at least one of them jumped at the chance to start piling up votes against him to eliminate the doctor? They've gotta know if Woody gets beheaded and is the doctor, Vicious and I are gonna take the fall, not them. Why have none of them jumped at that? They'd have to see they'd be getting rid of 3 townies with that move (doctor woody paige during the day, cop vicious at night, and shutout beheaded for costing both doc and cop next day).

I initially had the same thought process about the coin flip, but I failed to realize that if Woody is actually guilty, he's not the doctor so a coin flip would not even occur. If Woody lied about being a doctor, we'll find out by the end of the night phase. If Vicious turns up dead, Woody is the real doctor because the coin flip took place. It's imperative that if a real doctor is out there that they try and save vicious.

If Vicious survives we deduce one of three things: Woody chose to save Vicious or Doctor X chose to save vicious or Mafia chose someone else. But since Vicious is alive, he can tell us the results of his investigation on Woody. If the search comes up anything but doctor, Woody is mafia. An innocent but no doctor indication equals godfather. In this case, Woody is the day 3 lynch. We go through the process without risking lynching the doctor.

As for your votes theory, I agree they wouldn't bandwagon to lynch mafia, but at the same time you have to consider the fact that if Woody is innocent they can easily target him in the night phase without leaving the same trail.

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If you truly believe Woody is guilty, then there is another doctor out there to save Vicious. (Which he should do) If Woody is innocent, the coin flip will make it tough for the mafia to choose.

I do truly believe Woody is guilty. Which means I believe the real doc is out there and WILL be protecting Vic tonight. When Woody is proven guilty, it will not only accomplish what you're suggesting but it will also free up Vicious to investigate someone else tonight rather than wasting a night of investigation, lynching woody a day late, and hoping he'll be protected to find out some more info the next night.

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I initially had the same thought process about the coin flip, but I failed to realize that if Woody is actually guilty, he's not the doctor so a coin flip would not even occur. If Woody lied about being a doctor, we'll find out by the end of the night phase. If Vicious turns up dead, Woody is the real doctor because the coin flip took place. It's imperative that if a real doctor is out there that they try and save vicious.

If Vicious survives we deduce one of three things: Woody chose to save Vicious or Doctor X chose to save vicious or Mafia chose someone else. But since Vicious is alive, he can tell us the results of his investigation on Woody. If the search comes up anything but doctor, Woody is mafia. An innocent but no doctor indication equals godfather. In this case, Woody is the day 3 lynch. We go through the process without risking lynching the doctor.

As for your votes theory, I agree they wouldn't bandwagon to lynch mafia, but at the same time you have to consider the fact that if Woody is innocent they can easily target him in the night phase without leaving the same trail.

JVOR I told you already and I've said it before. All I got back on SMC was he was INNOCENT. not ROLELESS TOWNIE. I won't know if Woody is the doctor or not, just innocent or not. So if he, or anyone is godfather and I investigate them I'll see innocent. Then if woody is lying, I say innocent and the real doctor sees this... he'll need to speak up and then we're at square one.

The ONLY way we get through this without putting a doctor at risk is I turn up a zombie investigation on Woody and he isn't a godfather.

I'm off to bed guys. We'll revisit this tomorrow

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I initially had the same thought process about the coin flip, but I failed to realize that if Woody is actually guilty, he's not the doctor so a coin flip would not even occur. If Woody lied about being a doctor, we'll find out by the end of the night phase. If Vicious turns up dead, Woody is the real doctor because the coin flip took place. It's imperative that if a real doctor is out there that they try and save vicious.

Or he lied and the doctor a)didn't protect vicious b)didn't protect anyone (woody himself even said he won't be around much because of school. RJF being busy is what cost you your life in the last game) c)isn't even out there and we don't have a doctor.

If Vicious survives we deduce one of three things: Woody chose to save Vicious or Doctor X chose to save vicious or Mafia chose someone else. But since Vicious is alive, he can tell us the results of his investigation on Woody. If the search comes up anything but doctor, Woody is mafia. An innocent but no doctor indication equals godfather. In this case, Woody is the day 3 lynch. We go through the process without risking lynching the doctor.

We don't know how specific Vicious' info is. Will EY tell him if someone is the doctor, or does he just tell him "innocent" or "zombie"?

As for your votes theory, I agree they wouldn't bandwagon to lynch mafia, but at the same time you have to consider the fact that if Woody is innocent they can easily target him in the night phase without leaving the same trail.

If woody is innocent they run the risk of him being protected in the night phase. Why do that when you could get us to do their work for them? This will free them up to get the cop in the night phase. Plus as I've mentioned and accepted, if Woody is the doctor I'd be the next lynching.

Its what I'd do if it were you leading the charge which cost us our doctor and cop. If everything goes wrong I can tell you guys I'm innocent until I'm blue in the face but it won't stop you from lynching me. Its where the thought process of all the other townies would logically go. When that happens, the town will be down 5 innocents in two full phases including our doctor and cop.

Those numbers make too much sense from a mafia/zombie POV. If Woody was innocent, someone from the Mafia would've pounced by now. They haven't and the number of logged in members has slowly been dropping as its gotten later and later. So far its just me and Vicious going balls to the wall. Either the zombies are a really conservative group or we're onto something. Hell even an experienced group would likely have jumped onboard to lynch a guilty Woody to allay suspicion.

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I'm done for the night. Everyone knows where I stand. I'll try to get on before I go into work tomorrow. Ideally I'll come back tomorrow night to find that Woody the mafia zombie scum has been beheaded and no one was night killed because our secret doctor protected our public cop Vicious.

I'll settle for everyone else not being forced into a decision due to a time limit and I'll pick up right where I left off barring any major revelations. I'd really like to see what Doggin says about everything that occurred today.

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I'm going to be offline until 4pm.. I highly suggest we wait for doggins thoughts here..

imo, it should play out like this, call it the conservative approach..

1) we lynch someone else

2) if woody is the doc he flips a coin on who to protect him or vic

3) if there is another doc, they protect our claimed cop

4) if vicious is the cop he investigates woody tonight

5) if there is another cop, they investigate vicious

6) we act based on what happens tomorrow

if there is a real doc, they shouldn't counter claim for awhile because if vicious is telling the truth, vicios will die. If woody is lieing, he will be caught eventually ..

As for the aggressive approach, I believe strongly that woody is lieing, and would also be open to rolling the dice on that if we all discuss and agree.

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I really am not sure WTF to do now. Like someone else said I'm like 95% sure WP is lying, but it really would be such a huge risk to lynch him.

On a sidenote, there's a huge risk he (Or Vic) will be lynched anyways. Is it really worth believing Woody and have another bad scenario play out anyways.

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Ok, maybe someone needs to explain this to me better, but I'm not seeing the benefit in lynching Woody right now. Granted, I'm not sure I believe him either, but why take the risk when we can just as easily, and far more assuredly, get him tomorrow? If we lynch Woody today and we're wrong, this game is as good as over. There's obviously more than just one mafia member in the game, so its not like even if Woody is guilty, we are incapable of finding and killing another one today. If Woody is guilty, we're actually in good shape for tonight even in keeping him alive. That means our real doctor is safely hidden away and Vicious will get his protection and can get his results on Woody. Outside of maybe saying we "wasted" an investigation on Woody when we could've lynched him today, I'm not sure what we lose there. On the flip side, if we're wrong and Woody's the real doc then both the doc and cop are dead by morning.

The potential benefit in moving to lynch Woody today is so slight compared to the potential downfall of being wrong being so huge. Waiting a day on Woody to be sure of what side he's on isn't going to lose us the game, handing the mafia our doc and cop on a silver platter, most certainly would.

The only way this doesn't work out is if Vicious is mafia, since then he could be feeding us bogus info tomorrow, but in that case it adds another level of complication which certainly won't be sorted out by lynching Woody today anyway.

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JVOR, while you're idea isn't bad I think we keep it this way. I'm very confident that once we enter night phase I can get an answer out to you guys. The mafia is seeing all this action here, and will have to be ready to jump and NK one of the two of us. We're going all in heads-up basically, it's 50/50.

If we mass role reveal it really just gives too much info to mafia. We're serving it to them on a platter. They can lie. They can fit in.

Right now it's Woody and I out in the wide open. I still don't believe him FWIW.

What I'm saying is if Woody is innocent and I die and he truly is the doctor... then he can continue coin flipping between protecting himself and or a townie, and everytime the mafia goes after him it's 50/50 he lives or dies.

Here's the one warning I'm putting out to everyone. Let's remember a Godfather role can return a innocent investigation. If that's the case then what better play? He can skirt on th sacrifice of the cop with everyong assuming he's innocent. At that point I still think we're at an advantage. Why? Because there is a real doctor holding out (smartly so) at this time then he'll know the truth if Woody is indeed the Godfather.

If I return an innocent investigation and the real doctor knows the truth, I'd implore him to reveal himself then, because if we can get the Godfather role out of the way that is HUGE.

That is my best case scenario.

How would a doctor know whether he's a Godfather or not? I thought docs just got to protect, not get townie/mafia alignment info?

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Yeah, I know. I'm just saying this has the potential to be sorted out in the night phase. If you truly think Woody is guilty, which I think a lot of us do, make him the day 3 lynch instead of the day 2 lynch. Any cop should investigate Woodypaige tonight. If there is a "real" cop outside of vicious he already knows vicious is guilty.

Vicious, if you get anything other than doctor, Woody is mafia. It doesn't matter if Woody comes up as an innocent, he would have lied about being a doctor. This way, we don't even have to worry about lynching the doctor without confirmation.

If you truly believe Woody is guilty, then there is another doctor out there to save Vicious. (Which he should do) If Woody is innocent, the coin flip will make it tough for the mafia to choose.

This scenario actually makes a lot of sense, and might be the best plan so far. Does an investigation show "doctor" or just "innocent"? That makes a difference for sure.

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