Bleedin Green Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Chan - do not release the name yet, not with only 1. Also, for anyone curious, here's the PM from Borgo that sent me to my UserCP: BG can confirm Borgo sent him the same PM a while back (or he'll lie, you'll lynch me, and when I flip innocent you'll know he's scum Just to clarify, I think you misinterpreted his PM. I didn't get that PM from him, but I'm not saying you're a liar. I saw the thread when that all came up about embedding videos, so I don't doubt that you really got that PM. When he made the "BG" comment I believe he was referring to himself, not me. That's why I keep telling him he's not allowed to refer to himself as that anymore, too damn confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Things Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about Fight Club Lenny: "it's a secret". Carl: "shut up" Get the point? You'd better run, egg!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 JVOR (1) - Doggin94it With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Random thought: Where the hell is WE? Didn't he keep explaining away his absence by promising he'd be around once his 4-day weekend started? Yet its now Friday and we haven't heard a peep from him yet today. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm sorry for being so blunt but there's something I don't get: Can someone explain how Crusher did NOT get lynched last night after revealing multiple times he had maxed out on his ability to protect himself? Is there a rule where you can reload after protectin someone else? majic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 that's my feeling on this as well. I take it JVoR is NOT one of your confirmed innocents. As such: JVoR This is perfectly fine with me. 1) i'm not voting myself to be lynched nor wil I 2) CTM is free to investigate me whenever he wants 3) the town loses a roleless townie if I get lynched. I'm not going to convince everyone this is huge mistake or something. Doggin adds 3 roleless townies and a doctor to the list of people he's going after. That's not trying to frame him, thems the facts. we keep trying to keep him around and I ask you this question, how much has he actually helped? If you guys are really freaked out about it, i'm really suspicious of Jets thing as well. If you'd rather go that route first it's fine with me. Think about it guys, if I was actually guilty, why would I be okay with going for two guys here? If one of them comes up innocent, you wouldn't believe my read anymore. Moreover, the two power roles are out in the open and i'm not advocating at all going for them. I'm talking about two guys who have both claimed roleless innocent. I'm confident in my read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Vote: Jets Thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Since someone said JVoR made good points, lets examine them: Posted right after the night phase. Unless this is some ridiculous deep game the mafia is playing, they targeted the doctor and the doctor thankfully protected himself during the night. At this point, vicious thinks he has some good will for killling woody off and he tries to lynch the good doctor. Look who votes for crusher second. Doggin. It's masked well because Vicious opens crusher up to discussion and crusher's inactivity gives him a reason to start a wagon. look at the post right before this one. Doggin absolutely NAILs what he mafia did over the night. He's a brilliant guy, but a bunch of us except CTM weren't sure what to think of Vicious at this point. Is it insider knowledge? Actually, if you look at my posts I said it was likely that none of that had happened and that the mafia would have been trying to confirm woody as doc by targeting vicious knowing vicious would be protected. And I called for a "real finder" reveal if there was one, since otherwise we'd have been blindly following vicious. None of that makes sense for me as a mafia play, especially when you consider that I'm unlikely to skate through a game un-investigated. [bTW, I'll say it again - if CTM isn't the real finder and he's playing a very deep mafia game, the "Real Finder" needs to speak up right the hell now, before we follow CTM off a cliff. I don't think that's going to happen, b/c I believe CTM is legit. But if it's what's going on, the finder NEEDS to reveal] Let me ask Bleedin green as he's as experienced without being the cop as anyone, did you think of this very quickly? Is it experience talking or insider knowledge? The mafia targeting the real doctor who was hidden in the shadows, and the doctor actually protecting himself was a lucky situation. One that Doggin accurately called almost immediately. What can I say - like I said, my motto as a mafia player is "win spectacularly or die trying". So I naturally tend to think of dodges that the mafia might be running. This one was good - which makes me think a real experienced player would be behind it. If CTM isn't mafia, and I know I'm not, that leaves me looking at BG. But he's played a fairly clean game so far. I'd like to see him looked at, at some point. We've kept Doggin around because he has the potential to provide us with a lot of help. But so far, he's been at the lead bandwagoning for Jets Babe, Norway, and now the doctor. It's not definite proof, but Doggin hasn't really "helped" much has he? He could be just unlucky, but i tell you what, Doggin better start helping real soon. Yep - we're sitting at 8-2, I've definitely put the town in bad shape . BTW, what I would have done if I was mafia was had Woody claim finder, not doc. That way the death of one confirms the other. Look at Vicious's posts. Who has he actively called for a bandwagon to start on? Irish Jet on a number of occasions and Thor (which is kind of a vote for confidence). Who has he sort of mentioned offhandedly as shouldn't be discounted or "has too much sway" and yet never goes further, and on a few occasions agrees with his analysis? Doggin. Crusher and Bleedin can both tell you how likely it is that I'd tell a mafia teammate to do that. BTW, I'd put Raoul in the "likely innocent" bracket - IIRC, Vicious was looking to start a wagon on Thor on day 2, as an alternative to him and Woody. Even I can't see putting 75% of a mafia team in the crosshairs on day 2 as an attractive play. Why go invisible mode Doggin? Especially the timing? With the mafia frantically needing direction to the point where Vicious goes AWOL deciding what to do, that's when you choose to go invisible so we can't see if you go into PM or not? Again, anyone who's been mafia with me knows I PM constantly, not just "at a moment of crisis". The idea that I'd been avoiding PMing until Vicious got outed is ridiculous, and the fact that you're latching onto it as way of throwing suspicion my way is one of the reasons you're pinging my scumdar. So doggin goes from cold pegging the mafia's night actions... to establishing a "weird" linkage between Jif and Crusher, and still voting for crusher? Everyone noticed the link between crush and JiF. A standard mafia play (and one I taught Crusher) is to link yourself to an innocent or two so that either your teammates can take them down if you die (look, they were working together, and he was guilty, so the linked player must also be guilty), or so that their death will "confirm" you as innocent - basically, tie yourself to an innocent so your alignments are assumed to be the same. Also, note that Doggin has "no read" on Jets Things (convenient) and no read on JVOR? No read on me? I've had the most posts in this thread outside of Vicious. He's also throwing Chan under the bus when he was the first one to come up with the "let's hold off on lynching Woody ordeal" But most importantly Read this post by CTM earlier in this thread: You have - but up until today, you've played a middle of the road game. Nothing jumping out as scummy, nothing that made me think "this guy is probably innocent". Hence, "no read". Same for JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Vote: Doggin I agree with JVOR entirely on this and he made a great in regard to the fact that Doggin has gone after no-one but innocents, he hasn't helped in a great way like some would make out. He did also bascically DECLARE that Vicious was innocent too, but that to be fair was understandable. I do remember too that he was temporarily voting for me, while he was reading through post. I know I'm innocent so you can add that to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 JVOR (1) - Doggin94it Jets Things (1) - JVOR With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 JVOR (1) - Doggin94it Jets Things (1) - JVOR Doggin94it (1) - IJ With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Unvote Vote Doggin i'm flexible between the two. Again, if we lynch an innocent here i'm not defending myself and i'm the next logical target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Things Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Unvote Vote Doggin i'm flexible between the two. Again, if we lynch an innocent here i'm not defending myself and i'm the next logical target. Then it's good you unvoted me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 This is perfectly fine with me. 1) i'm not voting myself to be lynched nor wil I 2) CTM is free to investigate me whenever he wants 3) the town loses a roleless townie if I get lynched. I'm not going to convince everyone this is huge mistake or something. Doggin adds 3 roleless townies and a doctor to the list of people he's going after. That's not trying to frame him, thems the facts. we keep trying to keep him around and I ask you this question, how much has he actually helped? If you guys are really freaked out about it, i'm really suspicious of Jets thing as well. If you'd rather go that route first it's fine with me. Think about it guys, if I was actually guilty, why would I be okay with going for two guys here? If one of them comes up innocent, you wouldn't believe my read anymore. Moreover, the two power roles are out in the open and i'm not advocating at all going for them. I'm talking about two guys who have both claimed roleless innocent. I'm confident in my read. Doggin keeps tricking me, FOS:Doggin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 JVOR (1) - Doggin94it Doggin94it (1) - IJ, JVOR With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 that's my feeling on this as well. I take it JVoR is NOT one of your confirmed innocents. As such: JVoR No he's not, but, I've been reading through and he seems like he's genuinely trying to scum hunt. Of course there is an shot that he's attempting to create a tangled web of lies, but the more I think about, I'm not interested in lynching him today personally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 No he's not, but, I've been reading through and he seems like he's genuinely trying to scum hunt. Of course there is an shot that he's attempting to create a tangled web of lies, but the more I think about, I'm not interested in lynching him today personally... OK, I have the opposite read but am willing to follow your lead, for now. The other main suspect, to me, is Irish - but that's mostly for linkage to JVoR. Heading out for Shabbos - make sure I'm not lynched before I get back, hey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 OK, I have the opposite read but am willing to follow your lead, for now. The other main suspect, to me, is Irish - but that's mostly for linkage to JVoR. Heading out for Shabbos - make sure I'm not lynched before I get back, hey? Irish is high on my list as well.. Vic was really protecting him and begging him to vote crusher, and IJ was the first one to turn on Vicious when I revealed. Could be because he knew the jig was up first. Vote IJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Irish is high on my list as well.. Vic was really protecting him and begging him to vote crusher, and IJ was the first one to turn on Vicious when I revealed. Could be because he knew the jig was up first. Vote IJ Like I said, I'm willing to follow your lead, and we definitely want to narrow down the list of unknowns you need to look at. Right now, there are 10 players in the game - 4 you know are innocent (Crush, yourself, and your 2 names) and 6 you are unsure of. We lynch Irish, and it drops to 5 unknowns, with two of those 5 mafia. If you survive the night, we win - because at that point, it would be 4 unknowns with 2 mafia (or 1, if the unknown you view is mafia) and that's almost a locked in innocent win. unvote: JVoR. Vote: Irish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 JVOR (1) - Doggin94it Doggin94it (1) - IJ, JVOR With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch. That's two on me, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 IJ (2) - CTM, Doggin94it Doggin94it (2) - IJ, JVOR With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 IJ (2) - CTM, Doggin94it Doggin94it (2) - IJ, JVOR With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch. Heh, forgot we're down to 9. That means that CTM has only 5 unknowns, 2 of whom are mafia. Lynch one, and there are 4 known innocents and 4 unknowns - the mafia can't win against those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 It's just a note. I do think it's the right direction though. Vote: Irish Jet This is why my impression on Irish Jet was innocent. I usually don't find day 1 votes to be particularly good sources of info but indulge me please. Vicious is the 6th voter on Irish Jet, hoping to get a bandwagon started. (Oh right, look who once again is at the forefront of the lynch, Doggin) We have a saying in my country...the coyote of the desert likes to eat the heart of the young and the blood drips down to his children for breakfast, lunch and dinner and only the ribs will be broken. unvote: IJ Vicious is the very last person to unvote Irish Jet. Doggin was also late to get off the wagon. So he rides the bandwagon trying to get a quick lynch on Irish. If IJ was one of their own, wouldn't Vicious unvote early so to not even get close to a lynch on IJ? It's awfully dangerous getting to 6 votes isn't it? Seems like too risky of a play to put your teammate at risk with some noob players around. BG how do you feel if say Norway is an innocent. Do we start to question Doggin? I see us going after Norway who has been fishy, but at the same time I'd love to see us go after inactives. IJ and WE specifically. Crusher has been slightly fishy too. This is later on past day 1. He's still fingering IJ and WE and slips in Crusher at the end. Wasn't Norway innocent? Did any of us see Vicious really go after Doggin at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war ensemble Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I honestly am not sure which way to go with these bandwagons. I'm more suspicious of doggin at this moment but I will wait to cast my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Wow. Work meeting/dinner/happy hour and I have 15 pages to catch up on. I'll say that around page 58, I started to suspect Vicious as lying...AND the fact that he was so adamantly defending Irish doesn't bode well for IJ. For now, I'll Vote: Vicous and if I'm (we're) right, Irish will be my next vote. That's funny, Jets thing also wants to go after IJ. Sort of like the plan Doggin defaulted to. I'm just asking this one thing out of the town. If i'm right about my assumptions here i'm leaning towards innocent on Irish Jet. I mean, look through the entire thread if you have to, do you see anyone coming to the rescue to Irish Jet at any point in this game? Does that look like teamwork to you? I don't see much, all I see mostly is suspicion being cast on him. This might be a dangerous assumption on my part but again, i'm confident in my reading here. If either I or Irish Jet get lynched and turn up roleless townie, you know very full well who's body count list is getting larger and larger. Don't let them BS you into thinking it was just an accident. If Irish Jet is mafia then I royally fcked up and I don't have a leg to stand on for my other points. I can accept that. I'm not telling you not to vote for him, all i'm saying is that personally I'm leaning that he's innocent and if he actually does turn up innocent, know who the logical next lynch should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 FOS: Doggin for being too sure of himself to go invisible. We've got the assist I've got nobody to PM, so I don't care if people data mine me. Plus, I'm lazy. There are benefits to being roleless, I suppos We've got the perfect opportunity to explain the meaning. Yeah - Borgo gave me some advice on embedding youtube clips and suggested I check my UserCP. Once I was there, I figured I'd hit the button. Crush, Chan, good luck on your coin flip tonight and we have the convenient change of heart when the sh!t hits the fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 FYI guys, once I leave work in a few I'm out for the night. I'll check back in when I can tomorrow, but I may be a little scarce until Sunday. At this point, I just think we need to keep from rushing into anything. As doggin laid out, the numbers are pretty strongly in our favor right now. If we lynch a townie its not the end of the world, but lets not help the mafia by rushing to a quick decision here and leaving ourselves with little information to work with, including CTM for his investigations. I'd also definitely like to get a chance to hear from some of our less vocal guys. I know a few of them said they'd be around this weekend, so now's their chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Chan, can you confirm that you have 2, non-crusher, still alive confirmed innocents? If so, I think I can end the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Chan, can you confirm that you have 2, non-crusher, still alive confirmed innocents? If so, I think I can end the game Doggin are you a zombie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm about to go out. I've said what i've had to say about my opinions and analysis. I'll be back in a few hours in case Doggin tries to pull a fast one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Doggin are you a zombie? no. Though if I was, I'd still say no, so that gets you no info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war ensemble Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Chan, can you confirm that you have 2, non-crusher, still alive confirmed innocents? If so, I think I can end the game Care to enumerate on this almighty plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Chan, can you confirm that you have 2, non-crusher, still alive confirmed innocents? If so, I think I can end the game I'd prefer not to say yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war ensemble Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Irish is high on my list as well.. Vic was really protecting him and begging him to vote crusher, and IJ was the first one to turn on Vicious when I revealed. Could be because he knew the jig was up first. Vote IJ I don't understand this...Vic was very intent on voting IJ. He kept going after the inactives--namely IJ and I. It wouldn't make sense for him to risk such a dangerous move in the IJ bandwagoning. That filled up pretty quickly and I don't think they'd take that chance. Maybe it's just me, but Bleedin' Green and Doggin are at the top of my list. They agree too much for my liking and almost everything Doggin says about BG is about how clean and innocent he's been playing, almost to the extent that we're overlooking him. I know they're both united in having much experience, but it looks like more than that. Too much trust to be put with no evidence pointing towards their innocence. The fact that Doggin went invisible is also very suspicious. Earlier in the game he used the fact that he stayed visible to support his innocence--explaining that if he was mafia he would be sending PM's this whole time. Yet, however, when the sh!t hits the fan he's the first one to go invisible. He says he just clicked it while following Borgo's instructions, but surely he would know what we would think of that. It's not such an innocent move in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war ensemble Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'd prefer not to say yet. Good for you. Don't give out anything anyone asks for until the end of the day the earliest. At this point, it only helps the mafia. Another thing I find rather curious about Doggin's posts is that he keeps pushing for you to give your information. Trying to understand his mindset for yesterday, I think he tried to force you to give up your info before the night ended. That would set up their prioritized hit list. Notice how the night took longer than usual, I think this was trying to put added pressure on CTM. The best result for mafia would be a definite kill in Shutout--also removing one of the most vocal leaders of the innocents--and the gleaning of CTM's list. That would set up their to-do list without any repercussions. What do you think? Vote: Doggin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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