I don't know who is stupider - Jets Fanbase or the NY Media...

[NFLs StepChild]

I don't care about 2 years from now. It is all about the championship.

I do care about 2 years from now cause I want to be in position to win a championship every year. Not just next year. The loading up and backing yourself into a corner for the "win now" mode (aka we overspent and are going to have to gut the team in 2 years) allows you one or two years in which to take a shot. Odds are you won't get it in that window. With a new coach no less. Bad move imo.

[DMaynard]

He's not proven, he could be a franchise QB. He could also continue to be a cancer and set the team back after we paid the premium for the opportunity.

4,500 yards passing, 62% completion avg, 25 TDs on a crappy team.

What exactly is your definition of a franchise QB?

As far as his being a cancer, he is not exactly TO or Pacman Jones. His problem is his team wanted to trade him. I would think he would be quite appreciative of another team willing to trade for him.

[NFLs StepChild]

btw...for all you people that think you're so smart...............stupider is in fact a word.

LOL than I did fail cause the intent was to sound like Joey Bagadonutz from Brooklyn...

But in general guys who nitpick on semantics or one of the tangents generally have nothing relevant to add anyway.

[Guido Monzino]

btw...for all you people that think you're so smart...............stupider is in fact a word.

Middle names shouldn't be used as adjectives.

[DMaynard]

I do care about 2 years from now cause I want to be in position to win a championship every year. Not just next year. The loading up and backing yourself into a corner for the "win now" mode (aka we overspent and are going to have to gut the team in 2 years) allows you one or two years in which to take a shot. Odds are you won't get it in that window. With a new coach no less. Bad move imo.

I hear what you are saying but I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to find a franchise QB and how much of an impact a QB like Cutler can make to this current Jets team.

[NFLs StepChild]

4,500 yards passing, 62% completion avg, 25 TDs on a crappy team.

What exactly is your definition of a franchise QB?

As far as his being a cancer, he is not exactly TO or Pacman Jones. His problem is his team wanted to trade him. I would think he would be quite appreciative of another team willing to trade for him.

My definition: Someone who wins and doesn't make excuses would be a start. Also someone who elevates the players around him and makes marginal talent better. A leader that has the confidence and support of his entire lockerroom. A guy who works harder and commits more to his team than anyone else on the field. A mature player who only cares about the team and wins. A guy who takes care of the football and knows that he can make another play next down and doesn't have to do everything in one play. A durable and dependable player.

Stats alone don't do it for me. Hell if that's what is important, let's go call Elvis Grbac out of retirment. He had lots of 300 and 400+games resulting in L's.

A cancer is a cancer and at the QB position it is very problematic. How do you get rid of that one? If the reports of his team generally not liking him is true, and he has been proven to be a diva and a complainer, than no way do I go for this guy. If that's not the truth than ok fine. But there has been a notable absense of support for this guy coming out of Denver, outside of McDaniels...and the fact that he took it public is so poor. He looks awful for it. And his act will get tired very quickly here.

Is it worth the risk? Sure, but at the right price. You put out 2 1st rounders for this clown and you are married to him. You trade a 2nd rounder and you can justify cutting him or trading him away for a 3rd or 4th when he becomes a problem. Ultimately I want Rex to succeed, and putting a potential coach killer in place smacks of a poorly run FO who doesn't have a long term vision for success.

[neckdemon]

should've went with retardeder......

[NFLs StepChild]

I hear what you are saying but I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to find a franchise QB and how much of an impact a QB like Cutler can make to this current Jets team.

Dude if you were saying to spend 2 1st rounders to get Big Ben or whoever I'm asking if you want a 2nd rounder and a bj from my sister for good measure. It's VERY hard to find a franchise QB. And when a guy becomes available (generally in the draft, wait, maybe even only in the draft) you take one. But teams don't let franchise QBs go. And if Cutler is only 1/2 the a$$hole Jeff Goerge was Bowlen should fire McDaniels and keep his QB happy if they can't get along, cause coaches are easier to find. But this thing is lingering and you have to wonder why, and how did it get this far. And with Cutlers track record and rumors of immaturity, lack of leadership and everything else, you'd be foolish to think that this is just lucky for us that he is potentially on the market. And the fact that Denver was willing to shop this guy in the first place tells you a lot about the situation as well. Yeah the QB was familiar to the coaches system, but still. If Cutler was so indespensable, Bowlen would have bitchslapped McDaniels for even suggesting a move for Cassel.

[Kleckineau]

"A cancer is a cancer is a cancer is a cancer is a cancer "

r/u an oncologist?

[The Troll]

It's pretty ****ing hard to DEVELOP a franchise QB.

If one falls into your lap, you do ANYTHING IT TAKES to make it happen.

We don't need Jay Cutler, though. We just need more Jim Leonhards. Give me a ****ing break.

[NFLs StepChild]

It's pretty ****ing hard to DEVELOP a franchise QB.

True. But if you draft good prospects, you have a good shot at it.

If one falls into your lap, you do ANYTHING IT TAKES to make it happen.

Absolutely not. Giving up the farm for any one player is plain stupid. Bush league FO move. Every time. Make good deals that make sense for the situation at hand. SO many negatives here to justify what people are talking about. For a better deal I pull the trigger, but not a chance if we are dealing any 1st rounders and more.

We don't need Jay Cutler, though. We just need more Jim Leonhards. Give me a ****ing break.

I assume this is all for effect. It's lame. Nice projection though, Troll.

[SenorGato]

Yea...I'd still give up two firsts for Cutler.

25 year old franchise QB >>>> Whatever else in football, except for a great coach. Or a whole great D.

[neckdemon]

Absolutely not. Giving up the farm for any one player is plain stupid. Bush league FO move. Every time. Make good deals that make sense for the situation at hand. SO many negatives here to justify what people are talking about. For a better deal I pull the trigger, but not a chance if we are dealing any 1st rounders and more.

i'm confused......are you saying a franchise qb isn't worth a first round pick? cause if a franchise player at the most important position on your team isn't worth spending a 1st round pick on then idk what the fu*k is.

[#27TheDominator]

"A cancer is a cancer is a cancer is a cancer is a cancer "

r/u an oncologist?

Maybe he's Jonathan Papelbon.

[Greensince69]

While I would have agreed with you 10 years ago the face of the NFL has changed dramatically. Drafting in the first round has become a crapshoot ant tieing up 30 mil over 3 years on a top 5 draft pick who may very well be a bust in not very attractive. Until the draft changes and the union agrees to cap rookie salaries on a livable scale teams would rather trade picks for known commodities. QB especially is a crapshoot just see Sperms post for the graveyards. Looking at Cutler getting him for 2 picks is getting him at a HUGE discount. If you were to try to get him at the end of last year it would have cost you 3 1's. Now a new Beli clone comes in and trys to be Beli without earning the respect first and this kid gets classified as whiner. THe kid is young, gutsy and has a cannon that can cut through the wind in the medowlands. Please tell me the QB in this years draft that is even close. To me that is a good decision.

As far as WR, that is the WORST position to draft in the first round. THere have been more 1st round wr busts than any other position. RB has also been proven that you can get very good and servicable players in the 3rd - 5th rounds. If you need to take a ist rounder, safest bets seem to be OL and DL lineman, then defensive backfield (certainly worked for us with DR)

Lets give our owner and FO some credit here. They went out and got Farve last year, they knew that they could not win with chad. THe fired Manginni after he posts a winnig season cuase they knew they needed a change. Are drafting has not been too bad (Gholston jury is still out, lets see what Rex can do and remeber he was rated that high by just about everyone, goes to show what a crapshoot the draft is). The decsions made in FA are pretty good, Fanaca was a huge upgrade, Jenkins, Scott this year. Yes they cost but they make us a better team. Remeber what we were 2 short years ago.

[DHJF]

"I don't know who is stupider - Jets Fanbase or the NY Media... "

Stupider?

It's French for "more stupid." The "er" is silent.

[NFLs StepChild]

i'm confused......are you saying a franchise qb isn't worth a first round pick? cause if a franchise player at the most important position on your team isn't worth spending a 1st round pick on then idk what the fu*k is.

I'm saying Cutler isn't worth a 1st round pick for all the reasons given in this thread. There is so many negative points and everyone is still assuming that he is a franchise QB yet he has done nothing to prove that other than put up good stats in losing efforts. Yes he has all the physical attributes to be a franchise QB, and that's why I would consider him at all. But the intangibles and potential problems detract from him being a true franchise QB imo.

I'd rather have a little less arm and more leadership and intangibles for my money. Plus throw in the fact that you have to worry about this guy exploding...

If you think he's a franchise QB than ok I can see offering the #17 pick. But I 'm not offering anything more than that down the line even if it is in terms of a performance based escalating draft pick that Tanny likes so much. Especially when you are in a position that Denver needs to get rid of this guy because he poses a huge problem to their team (red flags should be going up everywhere...) and you are the ones taking on their headcase QB issues with all of the risk/reward that comes with that and offering them a way out of their PR nightmare. No way. I start by offering a 2nd round pick and go from there.

[DHJF]

I'd rather have a little less arm and more leadership and intangibles for my money. Plus throw in the fact that you have to worry about this guy exploding...

You want Pennington back?

[NFLs StepChild]

While I would have agreed with you 10 years ago the face of the NFL has changed dramatically. Drafting in the first round has become a crapshoot ant tieing up 30 mil over 3 years on a top 5 draft pick who may very well be a bust in not very attractive. Until the draft changes and the union agrees to cap rookie salaries on a livable scale teams would rather trade picks for known commodities. QB especially is a crapshoot just see Sperms post for the graveyards. Looking at Cutler getting him for 2 picks is getting him at a HUGE discount. If you were to try to get him at the end of last year it would have cost you 3 1's. Now a new Beli clone comes in and trys to be Beli without earning the respect first and this kid gets classified as whiner. THe kid is young, gutsy and has a cannon that can cut through the wind in the medowlands. Please tell me the QB in this years draft that is even close. To me that is a good decision.

As far as WR, that is the WORST position to draft in the first round. THere have been more 1st round wr busts than any other position. RB has also been proven that you can get very good and servicable players in the 3rd - 5th rounds. If you need to take a ist rounder, safest bets seem to be OL and DL lineman, then defensive backfield (certainly worked for us with DR)

Lets give our owner and FO some credit here. They went out and got Farve last year, they knew that they could not win with chad. THe fired Manginni after he posts a winnig season cuase they knew they needed a change. Are drafting has not been too bad (Gholston jury is still out, lets see what Rex can do and remeber he was rated that high by just about everyone, goes to show what a crapshoot the draft is). The decsions made in FA are pretty good, Fanaca was a huge upgrade, Jenkins, Scott this year. Yes they cost but they make us a better team. Remeber what we were 2 short years ago.

Great post. I'd agree with you about WR and RB. But you make your own success drafting stud lineman in those scenarios. I'm not on the same page with you re: Cutler being worth 2 draft picks. I do agree that cap contracts are out of whack and you hardly ever want to be picking top 8 because of that. That said you take 2 picks from 10-15 or so and look at the potential to get elite talent locked up for 5-6 years at a discount and then increase those odds with your 2nd and 3rd rounders by using those picks and having young cheap talent on the rise, now you can afford to do one or two big moves in FA to take your shots.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm saying Cutler isn't worth a 1st round pick for all the reasons given in this thread. There is so many negative points and everyone is still assuming that he is a franchise QB yet he has done nothing to prove that other than put up good stats in losing efforts. Yes he has all the physical attributes to be a franchise QB, and that's why I would consider him at all. But the intangibles and potential problems detract from him being a true franchise QB imo.

I'd rather have a little less arm and more leadership and intangibles for my money. Plus throw in the fact that you have to worry about this guy exploding...

If you think he's a franchise QB than ok I can see offering the #17 pick. But I 'm not offering anything more than that down the line even if it is in terms of a performance based escalating draft pick that Tanny likes so much. Especially when you are in a position that Denver needs to get rid of this guy because he poses a huge problem to their team (red flags should be going up everywhere...) and you are the ones taking on their headcase QB issues with all of the risk/reward that comes with that and offering them a way out of their PR nightmare. No way. I start by offering a 2nd round pick and go from there.

Sanchez started one year in college and he'll likely be gone before the 17th pick. He hasn't thrown for 20 TDs in the NFL yet either. I can agree with your philosphy, but IMO you are grossly overrating draft picks. The "franchise" thing is thrown around here like candy, but any decent starting QB is worth #17. The real question is if the QB can buy into the offense and work with the coaches. If he does and has that kind of an arm you give up more than one pick in a heartbeat.

[NFLs StepChild]

You want Pennington back?

LOL. I said a little less arm ... not no arm and injury prone.

[The Troll]

True. But if you draft good prospects, you have a good shot at it.

Absolutely not. Giving up the farm for any one player is plain stupid. Bush league FO move. Every time. Make good deals that make sense for the situation at hand. SO many negatives here to justify what people are talking about. For a better deal I pull the trigger, but not a chance if we are dealing any 1st rounders and more.

Basically, what you are talking about is putting together a puzzle. However, what you fail to realize is that quarterback is by far the most important piece of the puzzle. If we have a chance to get a bonafide franchise QB, we get him at any cost. Even if that means giving up precious draft picks that could turn out to be more Vernon Gholstons.

[NFLs StepChild]

Sanchez started one year in college and he'll likely be gone before the 17th pick. He hasn't thrown for 20 TDs in the NFL yet either. I can agree with your philosphy, but IMO you are grossly overrating draft picks. The "franchise" thing is thrown around here like candy, but any decent starting QB is worth #17. .

FWIW I don't really consider Sanchez or Freeman of that caliber either. This QB class is not good. Are they worth the pick at 17? I guess it depends on if you think they can grow into franchise QBs, the potential is there. For Sanchez the experience is not, he could get shellshocked by opposing defenses, and his arm is ok, I'm not sure it's ideal for the meadowlands. Freeman I don't know too much about, cause who the hell watches Kansas St? But the knock on him is attitude and an inability to pick up complicated schemes...if that is true, and I am not saying it is...no way is that pick a good one at 17.

The real question is if the QB can buy into the offense and work with the coaches. If he does and has that kind of an arm you give up more than one pick in a heartbeat.

GREAT point there. Do you believe Cutler is going to buy into the run first philosophy of Rex? Will he work with the coaches well? I have seen nothing to make me comfortable that he will. I instead envision more of the same with Schotty tailoring the offense to placate the QB and a continuation from last year with regard to the Favre meltdowns when he decided he was just going to fling it despite the coverages. If, and it's a huge if, he does buy in and becomes a mature player and plays to the strength of the offense and turns it all around. OK sure, but there is no guarantee there, so why pay as if that is a given? You are taking on the risk, you should pay an appropriate fee for soing so.

[NFLs StepChild]

Basically, what you are talking about is putting together a puzzle. However, what you fail to realize is that quarterback is by far the most important piece of the puzzle. If we have a chance to get a bonafide franchise QB, we get him at any cost. Even if that means giving up precious draft picks that could turn out to be more Vernon Gholstons.

They could be Gholstons, they could be Revises, they could be Mangolds or Dbricks. The more potentiall all pro type of players you have, the more likely you will win. Yup QB is important. The at any cost is the problem for me, and especially for a guy who is not a true franchise player. At any cost for a Peyton Manning? Ok, I could get on board with that, maybe...but at any cost for Cutler? No chance.

[The Troll]

They could be Gholstons, they could be Revises, they could be Mangolds or Dbricks. The more potentiall all pro type of players you have, the more likely you will win. Yup QB is important. The at any cost is the problem for me, and especially for a guy who is not a true franchise player. At any cost for a Peyton Manning? Ok, I could get on board with that, maybe...but at any cost for Cutler? No chance.

Well, I would trade any combination of Revis, Mangold, and Brick in order to get Jay Cutler.

Yes, Revis and Mangold are good players, but a cornerback and a center aren't going to win you any championships. Not with Kellen Clemens behind center, at least.

[NFLs StepChild]

Well, I would trade any combination of Revis, Mangold, and Brick in order to get Jay Cutler.

Yes, Revis and Mangold are good players, but a cornerback and a center aren't going to win you any championships. Not with Kellen Clemens behind center, at least.

Revis is not tradeable for anything. Brick Mangold I have a very hard time parting with as well. But that doesn't seem to be your point. You seem to want to have the QB position answered for the next 10-15 years. I get that. Problem is Cutler isn't the definitive solution people are making him out to be.

[The Troll]

Revis is not tradeable for anything. Brick Mangold I have a very hard time parting with as well. But that doesn't seem to be your point. You seem to want to have the QB position answered for the next 10-15 years. I get that. Problem is Cutler isn't the definitive solution people are making him out to be.

I wouldn't call Revis untradeable. In today's NFL, there is no such thing as a shutdown corner. This is not Deion Sanders or Rod Woodson here. Maybe he would be if he played in that era, but the rule changes this decade have made the game much more passer friendly.

I have to disagree on Cutler. If I am starting a team today, he is in my top five as to who I want at the QB position. And I would take him over any other young QB today that's has recent success (Ryan, Flacco, Eli, etc.).

[Irish Jet]

I don't know why we'd want a Franchise QB who has the elite potential. I mean we have Kellen Ratliff at QB. We're set!

[NFLs StepChild]

I wouldn't call Revis untradeable. In today's NFL, there is no such thing as a shutdown corner. This is not Deion Sanders or Rod Woodson here. Maybe he would be if he played in that era, but the rule changes this decade have made the game much more passer friendly.

I have to disagree on Cutler. If I am starting a team today, he is in my top five as to who I want at the QB position. And I would take him over any other young QB today that's has recent success (Ryan, Flacco, Eli, etc.).

That would explain the difference in opinion.

My top 5 QBs.

Brady

Peyton

Palmer

Ben

Romo

Then:

Rivers

Eli

Brees

Hasselback

Ryan

Cutler

McNabb

Flacco

If I am going young guy to start a franchsie with:

Ben

Ryan

Rivers

Flacco

Russell (can't fault him for who picked him)

[#27TheDominator]

I wouldn't call Revis untradeable. In today's NFL, there is no such thing as a shutdown corner. This is not Deion Sanders or Rod Woodson here. Maybe he would be if he played in that era, but the rule changes this decade have made the game much more passer friendly.

I have to disagree on Cutler. If I am starting a team today, he is in my top five as to who I want at the QB position. And I would take him over any other young QB today that's has recent success (Ryan, Flacco, Eli, etc.).

So you are saying you'll trade anybody if you get enough back in return? Isn't that what pissed Cutler off in the first place?

That would explain the difference in opinion.

My top 5 QBs.

Brady

Peyton

Palmer

Ben

Romo

Then:

Rivers

Eli

Brees

Hasselback

Ryan

Cutler

McNabb

Flacco

If I am going young guy to start a franchsie with:

Ben

Ryan

Rivers

Flacco

Russell (can't fault him for who picked him)

So you'd prefer to start a team with Russell or Flacco even though you think Cutler is better? Eli? Ugh. You can have him, but you rate him just behind Rivers, he's the same class as Rivers and Ben and you don't want to start your team with him?

[NFLs StepChild]

So you'd prefer to start a team with Russell or Flacco even though you think Cutler is better? Eli? Ugh. You can have him, but you rate him just behind Rivers, he's the same class as Rivers and Ben and you don't want to start your team with him?

Yeah well it's a different question to me. For starting a new franchise, you are looking for youth and upside to build a team around.

Best QB is a different question altogether.

[The Troll]

So you are saying you'll trade anybody if you get enough back in return? Isn't that what pissed Cutler off in the first place?

I would trade anyone the Jets have.

We don't have a franchise QB. If I were Denver, the thought of trading Jay Cutler would have never even entered my mind.

[SenorGato]

That would explain the difference in opinion.

My top 5 QBs.

Brady

Peyton

Palmer

Ben

Romo

Then:

Rivers

Eli

Brees

Hasselback

Ryan

Cutler

McNabb

Flacco

If I am going young guy to start a franchsie with:

Ben

Ryan

Rivers

Flacco

Russell (can't fault him for who picked him)

....Seriously dude? Flacco and Russell? Flacco?

I mean seriously...you could not want the guy on the team but LOL at almost deliberately leaving him off that list as if he isn't one of the best QB's in the league at 25.

I don't know why people who don't want a guy on the team can't just not want them on the team. They actually have to go out of the way to show that that guy is also a bad player.

BTW: What's Carson Palmer won? Romo?

[SenorGato]

Double post.

[Maxman]

It starts with an strong FO and an intelligent fanbase who understands it's not a quick fix scenario every offseason.

I know what you are saying but the fan base has no impact on the actual team. If Woody and\or Tanny is listening to the fans, then the franchise is pretty much screwed.