Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 WOW, because 1 years makes a career... Why would he admit a mistake when he didn't make one? The Yankees have both Hughes and CC. Sabathia, which is better than just Santana. Would Sabathia and Santana be better than Hughes and Sabathia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 What part of "Johan did not pitch until he was 16 or 17" did you not understand? Ok, be your pollyanic self-Hughes is a GREAT PROSPECT, the Yankees are just having him languish at AAA. They would much rather pay top $$$, rather than work in a phenom Like it matters when he started pitching, means nothing to me, and nothing to this argument. Answer this, how many 22 year olds will start the year in the majors this season? You can probably count them on 1 hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Would Sabathia and Santana be better than Hughes and Sabathia? Yes, and so would having A-Rod, Manny, and Pujols in our lineup, can we talk about legitimate things, or do you want to fantasize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Yes, and so would having A-Rod, Manny, and Pujols in our lineup, can we talk about legitimate things, or do you want to fantasize? You really change subjects when talking about specific items. The Yankees, from everything reported and you have not shown anything to teh contradictory, were offered Santana for Hughes and a comination of other players. They have no connection with Pujols or Manny, so why even bring that up? Youi avoid direct debate like you are allergic to them, or running from something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Arsis-Why do you bother to talk baseball-You admitted here yourself that "you only watch a couple games a year". Personal Ad Hominem attacks instead of debating the topics and the facts. Good for you, good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Personal Ad Hominem attacks instead of debating the topics and the facts. Good for you, good for you. Do you deny saying that "you only watch a couple of games a year"? What topic are you debating? YOU were the one with the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why are you still arguing with him. He is a clown. He is so used to watching a ****ty team that he can't recognize the value of things like depth and having the luxury of taking it slow with a guy like Hughes. He's used to watching a team that rushes young pitchers or gives them away to the rays. So Arsis, exactly what topic were you debating? YOU claim that I made an attack on YOu, because I quoted you, in that you only watch a couple baseball games a year? Mr sensitivity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 So Arsis, exactly what topic were you debating? YOU claim that I made an attack on YOu, because I quoted you, in that you only watch a couple baseball games a year? Mr sensitivity? I was making the point that you are arguing a pointless point because you are unable to recognize what a good team does. You fail to see the importance of depth. You're not used to seeing a team that has the luxury of taking it slow with a prospect. So you can't recognize the value in it. I was attacking the team you root for and not you. Girly man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You really change subjects when talking about specific items. The Yankees, from everything reported and you have not shown anything to teh contradictory, were offered Santana for Hughes and a comination of other players. They have no connection with Pujols or Manny, so why even bring that up? Youi avoid direct debate like you are allergic to them, or running from something. Are you really this dense? It is ridicilous to think any team, even the Yankees, would pay both Santana and Sabathia. There is way too much risk in signing a pitcher to 7-8 year contracts, let alone two. You may want to get yourself up to date on this issue. Sabathia and Santana are connected, it was reported this off season, Cashman decided last offseason NOT trade Hughes and other prospects for Santana, but instead wait 1 season, and sign Sabathia, thus not trading Hughes + other prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Do you deny saying that "you only watch a couple of games a year"? What topic are you debating? YOU were the one with the attack. Why are you avoiding what he said? Its called depth. By bolstering there rotation, the Yankees are admitting a mistake, that mistake isn't that Hughes isn't good, it's that a 21 year old pitcher wasn't yet ready to be counted on, are we really going to hold that against him? A 21-22 year old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Are you really this dense? It is ridicilous to think any team, even the Yankees, would pay both Santana and Sabathia. There is way too much risk in signing a pitcher to 7-8 year contracts, let alone two. You may want to get yourself up to date on this issue. Sabathia and Santana are connected, it was reported this off season, Cashman decided last offseason NOT trade Hughes and other prospects for Santana, but instead wait 1 season, and sign Sabathia, thus not trading Hughes + other prospects. Why the personal attacks? It makes your debate weaker. How did Cashman KNOW that Sabathia would in fact be a Free Agent? The Indians had ZERO chance in re-signing him? Cashman knew this? Are you saying there was collusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why are you avoiding what he said? Its called depth. By bolstering there rotation, the Yankees are admitting a mistake, that mistake isn't that Hughes isn't good, it's that a 21 year old pitcher wasn't yet ready to be counted on, are we really going to hold that against him? A 21-22 year old? I guess the Yankees didn't value depth in 2008, huh? Sure, the Yankees plan along was to have Hughes in the rotation in 2008, only to make sure they have him for depth in 2009. That is so reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I guess the Yankees didn't value depth in 2008, huh? Sure, the Yankees plan along was to have Hughes in the rotation in 2008, only to make sure they have him for depth in 2009. That is so reasonable. That's the whole point, they didn't have depth. Which is exactly why they failed to make the post season for the first time in over a decade. If you don't understand the value of depth, than I can't help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why the personal attacks? It makes your debate weaker. The Indians had ZERO chance in re-signing him? Cashman knew this? Are you saying there was collusion? Hahaha, of course. I knew that, Cashman knew it, and everyone with a clue knew it. Collusion... HAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Monzino Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why the personal attacks? It makes your debate weaker. How did Cashman KNOW that Sabathia would in fact be a Free Agent? The Indians had ZERO chance in re-signing him? Cashman knew this? Are you saying there was collusion? Everyone in the universe knew Sabathia was going to be a free agent. Anyone with a clue, anyway. It was a calculated risk based on an obvious assumption. And Cashman won that bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Everyone in the universe knew Sabathia was going to be a free agent. Anyone with a clue, anyway. It was a calculated risk based on an obvious assumption. And Cashman won that bet. If yopu really believe that Brian Cashman is making decisions on this year, based on who may be a Free Agent next year, you are more naive than you let on. That would be the most incredibly stupid, short sighted and ignorant way to GM a club. I can assure you it did not happen with that thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 If yopu really believe that Brian Cashman is making decisions on this year, based on who may be a Free Agent next year, you are more naive than you let on. That would be the most incredibly stupid, short sighted and ignorant way to GM a club. I can assure you it did not happen with that thought process. You assure us? HA! It's so stupid, short sighted, and ignorant... yet it worked. Cashman even admitted to the media this was plan, yet you think you know better. We must be in the presence the great Ed Barrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 It's so stupid, short sighted, and ignorant... yet it worked. Cashman even admitted to the media this was plan, yet you think you know better. We must be in the presence the great Ed Barrow. Show a Brian Cashman quote that said he was waiting for Sabathia to become a Free Agent, in order to sign him. He can't say that, it is tampering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Show a Brian Cashman quote that said he was waiting for Sabathia to become a Free Agent, in order to sign him. He can't say that, it is tampering. After he filed, Jesus, come on... Obviously he couldn't say this before he filed for free agency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 After he filed, Jesus, come on... Obviously he couldn't say this before he filed for free agency You said Cashman decided to pass on Sanatana, ansd wait the year to sign Sabathia. Like they was a connection The Santana proposed trade was BEFORE Sabathia became a Free Agency. Something in your timeline/story doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You said Cashman decided to pass on Sanatana, ansd wait the year to sign Sabathia. Like they was a connection The Santana proposed trade was BEFORE Sabathia became a Free Agency. Something in your timeline/story doesn't work. your brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 your brain. Try and keep up Arsis, your points are not really that thought provoking. Go back to trying to insult people on this site, that seems to be your niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You said Cashman decided to pass on Sanatana, ansd wait the year to sign Sabathia. Like they was a connection The Santana proposed trade was BEFORE Sabathia became a Free Agency. Something in your timeline/story doesn't work. Do I really need to explain this to you? This is yesterdays news. Here: http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/12/highlights_from_todays_yankees.html Cashman said he had plotted to go after Sabathia for more than a year; it's why he passed on trading prospects for Johan Santana. Instead of spending talent and money on Santana, Cashman wanted to get Sabathia for just the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Try and keep up Arsis, your points are not really that thought provoking. Go back to trying to insult people on this site, that seems to be your niche. I think you need to keep up, we are rehashing old stuff here. This is the first time you heard this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Do I really need to explain this to you? This is yesterdays news. Here: http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/12/highlights_from_todays_yankees.html No wonder the Yankees bid against themselves for the services of Sabathia ; Odd that Cashman would go from one off season, saying he wanted to commit to teh kids in teh organization (after Santana), only to then say he was targeting Sabathia all along. Mixed messages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 So Tyler- -Last year at thsi time, how did you project the career of one Phillip Hughes? -How do you project that career now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 So Tyler- -Last year at thsi time, how did you project the career of one Phillip Hughes? -How do you project that career now? Same as I project him now, top of the rotation type pitcher, but he's got to shake off that injury bug he's got. Fortunately it hasn't been arm related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otter Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 So Tyler- -Last year at thsi time, how did you project the career of one Phillip Hughes? -How do you project that career now? I think Hughes will be fine. He has been hurt the past two years and needs innings. He'll get them in S-WB. Once someone in the rotation goes on the DL, Hughes will be the first pitcher up. I seem to recall that Pelfrey had a rough start in the majors, but he worked it out and is now expected to be a major performer for the Mets. Next year I have similar expectations for Hughes. He has the potential to be a number one starter for the Yankees for years to come. You got to remember that the kid is 22 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I think Cashman made the right call. This way you get an ace guy like Sabbathia and you get to keep the kids and let them develop at their own pace without having to rush them. I'd rather have Sabbathia and hughes in the rotation together for 5 years rather than just santana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I think Cashman made the right call. This way you get an ace guy like Sabathia and you get to keep the kids and let them develop at their own pace without having to rush them. I'd rather have Sabathia and hughes in the rotation together for 5 years rather than just Santana. Ding ding ding ding ding! And that is the whole point. That is what the depth the Yankees now have allows them to do. End of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Ding ding ding ding ding! And that is the whole point. That is what the depth the Yankees now have allows them to do. End of the thread. Not really. I think the true Yankee plan was to have Hughes established in teh rotation now. Obviously, they are unable to do that. They did not view him as just "depth" last year, more so as a slot in tehir rotation. he has not been able to fulfill that, nor do the Yankees seem to trust him in taking his licks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You would think we are talking about a 28-30 year old pitcher with this guy... maybe then this would actually be a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You would think we are talking about a 28-30 year old pitcher with this guy... maybe then this would actually be a story. That is not the point. Or, did the Yankees error in their promotion of Hughes, and he is not near ready for Big League Ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 That is not the point. Or, did the Yankees error in their promotion of Hughes, and he is not near ready for Big League Ball? I would say Hughes was rushed, yes. He was 20 years old when he made his MLB debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgoguy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Don't stop on my account, guys. Just stopping in to say that this has been a very entertaining discourse, and that "the powers that be" (Yes, astoundingly, that's Max and his "henchmen" should note that I am--seriously--nominating this thread for Thread of the Year consideration. Please forgive the intrusion, and feel free to resume the histrionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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