Mafia Game 3 - Not All in the Family..

[Doggin94it]

Doggin is trying to deflect things now with his arguments and also agreeing that EY needs protection. Also with his odd theories. I will put this out here ...

Laywer (Doctor), you need to protect me tonight. This is about what's best for the family.

Yellin, I think SMC just figured it out too. SMC should have gone first. You know why.

[SMC]

Doggin is a Rat and it should be obvious by now. Anyone suspicious of me now, with all due respect, is either a Rat or a buffoon.

[Doggin94it]

Doggin is trying to deflect things now with his arguments and also agreeing that EY needs protection. Also with his odd theories. I will put this out here ...

I'd like you to meet:

(Note that the kettle is not, in fact, black, though the pot is)

[SMC]

Yellin, I think SMC just figured it out too. SMC should have gone first. You know why.

And, Doggin, if I end up dead in the morning you should be whacked, you do realize that right?

[Doggin94it]

Doggin is a Rat and it should be obvious by now. Anyone suspicious of me now, with all due respect, is either a Rat or a buffoon.

Interesting tactic . . .

And yet you still haven't answered the simple question I posed to you. What, about 10 times now?

Even assuming JT was lying, and not joking, when he said that I said his Peter Petrelli reveal was the "best ever", how does that tell you anything about whether he is scum in this game?

It's fairly obvious that you can't answer the question. But I'm going to keep asking it until you're dead.

[Doggin94it]

And, Doggin, if I end up dead in the morning you should be whacked, you do realize that right?

[Dan.]

What on earth is going on? Haha, this is over my head ... I'm so lost right now.

[SMC]

Irish Jet incriminated himself like few others have on the 1st day. You're not going to get a more better reason to vote to lynch someone than Irish did. But the game's most experienced player (Doggin) completely ignored that and instead is STILL going after me.

Someone explain that please.

Now he's harping on a meaningless exchange where I thought he caught Jets Thing in a lie. I did not realize he was joking. SO WHAT? That's not a reason to keep his vote on me when the evidence was mounting against Irish.

[Doggin94it]

What on earth is going on? Haha, this is over my head ... I'm so lost right now.

Yellin is innocent and needs doctor protection.

SMC is ignoring questions and accusing me of deflecting.

People are operating on the assumption that the mafia would have avoided voting for their teammate. To me, that's the exact wrong assumption, unless nobody on the mafia had any experience being mafia. The first commandment of being mafia is avoid any linkage to teammates - that means that when their cover's been blown, you vote for them, not try to save them.

[SMC]

Yellin is innocent and needs doctor protection.

SMC is ignoring questions and accusing me of deflecting.

People are operating on the assumption that the mafia would have avoided voting for their teammate. To me, that's the exact wrong assumption, unless nobody on the mafia had any experience being mafia. The first commandment of being mafia is avoid any linkage to teammates - that means that when their cover's been blown, you vote for them, not try to save them.

That's why Bleedin' voted for Irish.

[Doggin94it]

Irish Jet incriminated himself like few others have on the 1st day. You're not going to get a more better reason to vote to lynch someone than Irish did. But the game's most experienced player (Doggin) completely ignored that and instead is STILL going after me.

Someone explain that please.

Now he's harping on a meaningless exchange where I thought he caught Jets Thing in a lie. I did not realize he was joking. SO WHAT? That's not a reason to keep his vote on me when the evidence was mounting against Irish.

The issue isn't whether you thought I was being serious.

The issue is that, even if you thought I was being serious, the particular "lie" would have been completely irrelevant. And, in fact, I wasn't voting for JT. You, on the other hand, leapt at the chance to join another bandwagon (this time, based on some "reasoning").

Explain to me why the lie would be relevant, and I'll get off your case.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't play the "I didn't think about it" card. What saved you yesterday was the idea that you were "too smart to play so stupid" (which I think is ridiculous - everyone makes mistakes, no matter how smart they are). So which is it?

[SMC]

Doggin, you're a Rat and it's quite obvious now.

The fact that you're pursuing a dead issue is quite telling. There is no reason for you to keep after me except in an attempt to (1) try to rehabilitate yourself and (2) finish off the job you started day 1 by getting me whacked day 2.

[The Crusher]

What on earth is going on? Haha, this is over my head ... I'm so lost right now.

Don't feel bad, I think I was called a buffoon.

[SMC]

Finder should investigate Yellin at some point - he looks very innocent right now, which is why we need confirmation

Note here that Doggin is advocating the Finder to waste an investigation.

The Finder (if there is one) has, under normal game settings, the ability to investigate only 1 person at night. The Finder submits a name to the Mod by PM and the Mod replies either innocent or guilty.

It's clear that EY is innocent. Unless its an outlandishly brillian move (and I'll crown EY King of the Mafia) there is no way he would be the FIRST to start the charge against Irish unless EY was innocent and thought Irish was guilty.

EY could have easily switched his vote to me (I was second on his suspect list), but he didn't because he was hard after Irish.

If there is a finder, investigate 1 of the 5 than voted for me. Let it be Doggin, but I'm pretty sure he's a Rat anyway.

[SMC]

Don't feel bad, I think I was called a buffoon.

No, you were called a Rat.

[The Crusher]

That's why Bleedin' voted for Irish.

Hence the reason for Crusher's sigh.

[The Crusher]

Doggin, you're a Rat and it's quite obvious now.

The fact that you're pursuing a dead issue is quite telling. There is no reason for you to keep after me except in an attempt to (1) try to rehabilitate yourself and (2) finish off the job you started day 1 by getting me whacked day 2.

Didn't EY want to whack you day one as well?

[SMC]

Hence the reason for Crusher's sigh.

Yes, and Bleedin is your scum-buddy.

My Definate Rat List (besides Irish, of course) is:

Doggin'

Bleadin'

Crusher/Norway

Possible Rat List:

Norway/Crusher

Bleedin' is the only Rat I think that voted for Irish. The suspects should be all those who didn't vote for Irish AND especially those who insisted on voting for me despite the overwhelming evidence against Irish.

[Bleedin Green]

That's why Bleedin' voted for Irish.

Interesting theory. Anything to that aside from me dropping the hammer on a rat? Not that I think it should exonerate me, just not sure how it implicates me either.

[SMC]

Didn't EY want to whack you day one as well?

I was his secondary choice after Irish. He called out Irish, pwned him in a post, and Irish never responded to that even after 7 hours.

[SMC]

Interesting theory. Anything to that aside from me dropping the hammer on a rat? Not that I think it should exonerate me, just not sure how it implicates me either.

1. Your game experience

2. Laying low for most of the game

3. Saying that Irish should be given more time to defend himself although he failed to do it after SEVEN HOURS passed. That was done so you could build momentum to finish me off, which Doggin was pushing.

4. EY daring you to vote for him and you procrastinating.

5. You trying to rehabilitate yourself by saying I should present my theories now in case I get NK

That's just off the top of my head.

[The Crusher]

No, you were called a Rat.

You think? Just because I voted for you instead of Irish? Because I was supposed to be so sold on EY's presentation that I would mindlessly join in without thinking it out. So using this logic are you voting for yourself next? Because don't look now, but you where second on the all knowing EY's list.

[SMC]

You think? Just because I voted for you instead of Irish? Because I was supposed to be so sold on EY's presentation that I would mindlessly join in without thinking it out. So using this logic are you voting for yourself next? Because don't look now, but you where second on the all knowing EY's list.

No, EY should be convinced of my innocence. If he's not, then, like I said, he's either a Rat or a buffoon.

[JMJ]

There is an investigator's role in this game where someone gets a mod-response on whether someone is guilty or innocent? Madone' I have a lot to learn about this game...

If true, the person with this role has to investigate Doggin. No two ways about it. He and Norway are the two slimiest at this point, but with all due respect, Doggin is the much smarter and much more experienced player.

Also, since he has done nothing but accuse and squabble with SMC since IJ's accusation and proven guilt, we will learn a ton about SMC in the process of investigating Doggin. You kill 2 birds with one stone and learn something about two very active, very suspicious, and very wiley vets at the same time.

FOS - Doggin

Investigator - inquire about this man.

[SMC]

I agree, JMJ.

If I'm right, this could be the way to an easy win for the Family.

[ZachEY]

Doggin is trying to deflect things now with his arguments and also agreeing that EY needs protection. Also with his odd theories. I will put this out here ...

Laywer (Doctor), you need to protect me tonight. This is about what's best for the family.

1st off. There is no reason to protect you tonight. Honestly, your death at night doesn't hurt us that badly.

But in reality, everyone knows you wont be killed in the night phase. Because either you're scum, or your being pushed by scum as the next kill. It makes no sense for scum to take you down tonight. Part of me hopes they do, it would answer a lot of questions, and we've gathered most of the information we can on you.

---------------------------------

Doggin, here's why I can't get behind SMC as scum just yet. We're assuming Scum started the game with ~5 players. With those numbers, do we really think the only viable bandwagons towards the end of the day would both be scum? I find that highly unlikely that they would roll over and die so easily.

---------------------------------

Doggin threw out the idea that I should be investigated *just to be sure*. Obviously I understand this fear, as I'm always in the crosshairs as with guys like Doggin/CTM/Bleedin' Green. Just do it sooner, rather than later, as we don't need the distraction from our most likely targets and we can start eliminating the fuzz one by one.

---------------------------------

So, to repeat. Lawyer (Doctor) do your stuff tonight! I'm the obvious target. SMC would be a mistake that I, and we all, should HOPE that scum makes tonight. Sorry SMC, but it is what it is.

[SMC]

I agree with your points, EY, to an extent.

I see the Rats trying to lay the foundation by going after me day 2. But I'm more important than you realize.

The bottom line: LAWYER (DOCTOR) protect either EY or SMC. Don't make it known, of course.

If the Rats are smart, they'll try to NK someone other then me or EY because they can't afford a missed kill.

[Doggin94it]

Note here that Doggin is advocating the Finder to waste an investigation.

The Finder (if there is one) has, under normal game settings, the ability to investigate only 1 person at night. The Finder submits a name to the Mod by PM and the Mod replies either innocent or guilty.

It's clear that EY is innocent. Unless its an outlandishly brillian move (and I'll crown EY King of the Mafia) there is no way he would be the FIRST to start the charge against Irish unless EY was innocent and thought Irish was guilty.

EY could have easily switched his vote to me (I was second on his suspect list), but he didn't because he was hard after Irish.

If there is a finder, investigate 1 of the 5 than voted for me. Let it be Doggin, but I'm pretty sure he's a Rat anyway.

Bleedin, could you please, pretty please, explain to SMC?

Chan could tell you, too, if he was in this game instead of modding it.

The Finder absolutely must investigate Yellin at some point in this game - otherwise, if he is making a brilliant move, the town gets taken for a ride. Preventing that is as important as finding a rat (as anyone who watched the last game should know)

[Bleedin Green]

1. Your game experience

2. Laying low for most of the game

3. Saying that Irish should be given more time to defend himself although he failed to do it after SEVEN HOURS passed. That was done so you could build momentum to finish me off, which Doggin was pushing.

4. EY daring you to vote for him and you procrastinating.

5. You trying to rehabilitate yourself by saying I should present my theories now in case I get NK

That's just off the top of my head.

1. How does this make me scum?

2. I suppose it could be interpreted as that to an extent, although I'm not sure being the first to vote JT and hammering IJ is all that "laying low".

3. As I explained at the time, my greater concern was for the rapidity in which the votes stockpiled onto IJ. EY had his vote on IJ for hours without anyone considering it for much of anything, then suddenly half the game is on board with the lynch. I actually planned on voting IJ when I got online after dinner, but then seeing him so quickly end up two votes from lynch made me hesitant. It was actually Vicious who made me realize nothing IJ said was really going to change my feelings after all the time that went by and he said little to nothing, as my hesitation was more related to the voting pattern then him. At that point I made the vote. Besides, being one vote away from lynch, if I were scum what good would I think I could do for IJ in terms of "saving" him? The guy was a dead man walking anyway, it was just a matter of time before someone dropped the hammer.

4. LOL. So now I should vote for people just because they're antagonizing me? That makes about as much sense as "trust me".

5. Actually no, it simply makes sense. You seemed certain that you had this thing in the bag if IJ was mafia. If you were right, that makes you very dangerous to the mafia and with EY likely getting protected tonight, a possible target. So if you're really on the town's side, wouldn't you want to present your findings so that even if you were killed, we could still win this game? Nothing to it but simple logic there.

[Doggin94it]

1st off. There is no reason to protect you tonight. Honestly, your death at night doesn't hurt us that badly.

But in reality, everyone knows you wont be killed in the night phase. Because either you're scum, or your being pushed by scum as the next kill. It makes no sense for scum to take you down tonight. Part of me hopes they do, it would answer a lot of questions, and we've gathered most of the information we can on you.

---------------------------------

Doggin, here's why I can't get behind SMC as scum just yet. We're assuming Scum started the game with ~5 players. With those numbers, do we really think the only viable bandwagons towards the end of the day would both be scum? I find that highly unlikely that they would roll over and die so easily.

---------------------------------

Doggin threw out the idea that I should be investigated *just to be sure*. Obviously I understand this fear, as I'm always in the crosshairs as with guys like Doggin/CTM/Bleedin' Green. Just do it sooner, rather than later, as we don't need the distraction from our most likely targets and we can start eliminating the fuzz one by one.

---------------------------------

So, to repeat. Lawyer (Doctor) do your stuff tonight! I'm the obvious target. SMC would be a mistake that I, and we all, should HOPE that scum makes tonight. Sorry SMC, but it is what it is.

I agree with all of this except the bolded part (and the obnoxious red lines ). When people started voting SMC, there were other trains going on; once you nailed Irish, there were only two viable lynch candidates. I don't think the scum planned it, I think they got screwed (tough if SMC is scum, which I think is clear (though he may be a solo if I'm reading the leaves correctly), I'd also look a bit at the players on neither train - Sharrow and JT)

[Bleedin Green]

Bleedin, could you please, pretty please, explain to SMC?

Chan could tell you, too, if he was in this game instead of modding it.

The Finder absolutely must investigate Yellin at some point in this game - otherwise, if he is making a brilliant move, the town gets taken for a ride. Preventing that is as important as finding a rat (as anyone who watched the last game should know)

That's crazy, what do you think is going to happen? Two separate confirmed cops and a generally accepted innocent who doesn't receive a single vote until the second to last day all end up being mafia? That's just ridiculous.

[SMC]

Bleedin, could you please, pretty please, explain to SMC?

Chan could tell you, too, if he was in this game instead of modding it.

The Finder absolutely must investigate Yellin at some point in this game - otherwise, if he is making a brilliant move, the town gets taken for a ride. Preventing that is as important as finding a rat (as anyone who watched the last game should know)

Of course you would say this in a further effort to rehabilitate yourself. It would be a text book move to investigate EY, that's why you've advocated it. EY, right now, can't take the Family for a ride.

Besides, there's a head scratcher in this. Why are you (1) advocating that EY gets investigated Night 1 AND (2) gets Lawyer protected Night 1? Isn't that a waste of protection?

[Doggin94it]

1. How does this make me scum?

2. I suppose it could be interpreted as that to an extent, although I'm not sure being the first to vote JT and hammering IJ is all that "laying low".

3. As I explained at the time, my greater concern was for the rapidity in which the votes stockpiled onto IJ. EY had his vote on IJ for hours without anyone considering it for much of anything, then suddenly half the game is on board with the lynch. I actually planned on voting IJ when I got online after dinner, but then seeing him so quickly end up two votes from lynch made me hesitant. It was actually Vicious who made me realize nothing IJ said was really going to change my feelings after all the time that went by and he said little to nothing, as my hesitation was more related to the voting pattern then him. At that point I made the vote. Besides, being one vote away from lynch, if I were scum what good would I think I could do for IJ in terms of "saving" him? The guy was a dead man walking anyway, it was just a matter of time before someone dropped the hammer.

4. LOL. So now I should vote for people just because they're antagonizing me? That makes about as much sense as "trust me".

5. Actually no, it simply makes sense. You seemed certain that you had this thing in the bag if IJ was mafia. If you were right, that makes you very dangerous to the mafia and with EY likely getting protected tonight, a possible target. So if you're really on the town's side, wouldn't you want to present your findings so that even if you were killed, we could still win this game? Nothing to it but simple logic there.

Obviously, you're only saying that because you're a rat.

(Don't expect SMC to actually answer questions, btw - it doesn't happen)

[Jets Things]

I agree with your points, EY, to an extent.

I see the Rats trying to lay the foundation by going after me day 2. But I'm more important than you realize.

The bottom line: LAWYER (DOCTOR) protect either EY or SMC. Don't make it known, of course.

If the Rats are smart, they'll try to NK someone other then me or EY because they can't afford a missed kill.

??

[SMC]

Obviously, you're only saying that because you're a rat.

(Don't expect SMC to actually answer questions, btw - it doesn't happen)

I've answered questions, Rat.

Why are you still harping on the BS stuff? Unless, of course, to stir up the dying flame of suspicion against me.