Mafia Game 3 - Not All in the Family..

[Doggin94it]

Note here that Doggin is advocating the Finder to waste an investigation.

Of course you would say this in a further effort to rehabilitate yourself. It would be a text book move to investigate EY, that's why you've advocated it. EY, right now, can't take the Family for a ride.

So, which is it? Is it a waste of an investigation, or the textbook move (i.e. the smart play)?

Besides, there's a head scratcher in this. Why are you (1) advocating that EY gets investigated Night 1 AND (2) gets Lawyer protected Night 1? Isn't that a waste of protection?

Actually, no. First, I'm not advocating that EY get investigated tonight, necessarily. Hell, if our finder wants to look at me, or you, or Bleedin, or Sharrow, or whoever, that's fine with me. But what can't happen is that EY goes uninvestigated (and he should be looked at early, since its pretty clear he's going to dominate where the town goes for the next few days).

Second, if I were calling for the finder to investigate EY (or any other particular player) tonight, I'd have to call for doctor protection for that player, too - since without it, the scum would just whack whichever player the finder was investigating, leading to a true wasted investigation.

[ZachEY]

I'd also look a bit at the players on neither train - Sharrow and JT)

No one has done anything that makes me sure they're innocent. But I'm done talking until morning. Too much night activity usually just gives scum better ideas what to do. Hopefully the doc doesn't get cute.

[Doggin94it]

That's crazy, what do you think is going to happen? Two separate confirmed cops and a generally accepted innocent who doesn't receive a single vote until the second to last day all end up being mafia? That's just ridiculous.

[Doggin94it]

I've answered questions, Rat.

Why are you still harping on the BS stuff? Unless, of course, to stir up the dying flame of suspicion against me.

No, you haven't. Here's the question in a nutshell, again:

Even if JT was lying about my opinion of the quality of the Petrelli reveal, why would that be relevant to his guilt or innocence in this game?

I'll make it easy for you - since you say you've answered the question, you don't even need to retype it. Just link to the post, or quote yourself.

I'm waiting . . .

[Dan.]

This just clicked into an earlier post.

Yellin is legit, and does indeed need doctor protection.

I understand if too much talking gives things away to the mafia, but if/when you can, I'd like to know what you meant by the above quote. So you realized something that made you sure of EY's innocence? And now you just want to investigate him to make sure?

And what did you mean when you said "SMC figured it out"?

(If I'm missing something obvious, I apologize. I'm just absolutely baffled right now.)

[Dan.]

And by "mafia" I meant scum mafia, of course. Not townies who are called mafia in this game.

[Doggin94it]

I understand if too much talking gives things away to the mafia, but if/when you can, I'd like to know what you meant by the above quote. So you realized something that made you sure of EY's innocence? And now you just want to investigate him to make sure?

And what did you mean when you said "SMC figured it out"?

(If I'm missing something obvious, I apologize. I'm just absolutely baffled right now.)

Sorry, but this is one of those situations where we don't talk about fight club. I'll be happy to explain it after the game, or after EY dies, or after you do (if you want to PM me to ask). But not now.

[SMC]

So, which is it? Is it a waste of an investigation, or the textbook move (i.e. the smart play)?

It's a wasted investigation in this instance, not a wasted move in general. You know the difference. In general it's a textbook move and by you going by the textbook it is a form of rehabilitation.

I'm pretty confident that EY is a Family member, so that's why I say it's a wasted investigation. Plus, you being a Rat, you know it's a wasted investigation as well.

Actually, no. First, I'm not advocating that EY get investigated tonight, necessarily. Hell, if our finder wants to look at me, or you, or Bleedin, or Sharrow, or whoever, that's fine with me. But what can't happen is that EY goes uninvestigated (and he should be looked at early, since its pretty clear he's going to dominate where the town goes for the next few days).

Second, if I were calling for the finder to investigate EY (or any other particular player) tonight, I'd have to call for doctor protection for that player, too - since without it, the scum would just whack whichever player the finder was investigating, leading to a true wasted investigation.

I though you were advocating that EY get investigated tonight. That said, how would the Rats know whom was being investigated? We can suggest it, but it doesn't mean the Finder is going to say "I'm investigating X".

For instance, I'm saying Doggin should be investigated while you're saying EY should. The Finder investigates Doggin, Doggin NKs EY, and in the morning the Finder reveals his investigation and Doggin gets lynched as a Rat. How is that not a likely play?

Investigations and Protection are precious on this game. Personally, I don't think they should be spent on the same person at night.

[Dan.]

Sorry, but this is one of those situations where we don't talk about fight club. I'll be happy to explain it after the game, or after EY dies, or after you do (if you want to PM me to ask). But not now.

No problem, thanks.

[SMC]

No, you haven't. Here's the question in a nutshell, again:

Even if JT was lying about my opinion of the quality of the Petrelli reveal, why would that be relevant to his guilt or innocence in this game?

I'll make it easy for you - since you say you've answered the question, you don't even need to retype it. Just link to the post, or quote yourself.

I'm waiting . . .

"Lynching all liars." Remember that phrase? It's a strategy as you know when the town doesn't know who to lynch. Catch someone in a lie and they should be lynched. I thought you caught JT in a lie.

Satisfied, Rat?

[Doggin94it]

"Lynching all liars." Remember that phrase? It's a strategy as you know when the town doesn't know who to lynch. Catch someone in a lie and they should be lynched. I thought you caught JT in a lie.

Satisfied, Rat?

Lynch all liars applies to in-game lies about in-game activity (as you know). Lynching JT for "lying" about his peter petrelli reveal doesn't make any more sense than lynching you for lying about your true feelings for chad pennington. It is completely irrelevant to whether he's scum and no basis for a lynching. And you know that.

So no, not satisfied at all.

[SMC]

Well, I've said my peace. Unless anyone has any direct questions, I'll hang low until or if there's any indication that Day 2 will start.

[SMC]

Lynch all liars applies to in-game lies about in-game activity (as you know). Lynching JT for "lying" about his peter petrelli reveal doesn't make any more sense than lynching you for lying about your true feelings for chad pennington. It is completely irrelevant to whether he's scum and no basis for a lynching. And you know that.

So no, not satisfied at all.

I don't care if you're satisfied. Being a Rat, you would not be satisfied in anything I say. It's all part of trying to stoke the flame of suspicion.

I thought JT had an IN-GAME lie, not a general like. I thought that Peter Petrelli had something to do with this game.

What does it refer to BTW? I was not in the first JN game, and was NK'd night 1 on the second. I don't remember the name from the JI games.

Now, unless there are further questions I'll lay low.

[Doggin94it]

It's a wasted investigation in this instance, not a wasted move in general. You know the difference. In general it's a textbook move and by you going by the textbook it is a form of rehabilitation.

I'm pretty confident that EY is a Family member, so that's why I say it's a wasted investigation. Plus, you being a Rat, you know it's a wasted investigation as well.

Confirming a potential pied piper is in fact an innocent is not a "waste" - that's why it's a "textbook move." And even if you were innocent, not scum (which you're clearly not) you being "pretty confident" that EY is innocent would be completely irrelevant to whether EY should be investigated.

People in the last game were "pretty confident" bleedin was innocent.

Bleedin, in that game we keep referencing, was "pretty confident" crusher was innocent (because, you know, Crusher did exactly the thing that makes you "pretty confident" that EY is innocent - strongly buried a mafia teammate)

Meh. I have your answers, and they only convince me even more that you're scum. I'm voting you til you're dead.

I though you were advocating that EY get investigated tonight. That said, how would the Rats know whom was being investigated? We can suggest it, but it doesn't mean the Finder is going to say "I'm investigating X".

For instance, I'm saying Doggin should be investigated while you're saying EY should. The Finder investigates Doggin, Doggin NKs EY, and in the morning the Finder reveals his investigation and Doggin gets lynched as a Rat. How is that not a likely play?

Aside from the fact that I'm not a rat? It doesn't matter whether it's "likely" - you CANNOT risk having the finder not learn something on any given game night.

Investigations and Protection are precious on this game. Personally, I don't think they should be spent on the same person at night.

Because . . .

[Doggin94it]

I don't care if you're satisfied. Being a Rat, you would not be satisfied in anything I say. It's all part of trying to stoke the flame of suspicion.

I thought JT had an IN-GAME lie, not a general like. I thought that Peter Petrelli had something to do with this game.

Do you know who Peter Petrelli is? You thought that Jets Things had revealed as Peter Petrelli in this game? And that, in this game, I had said to him "that was the best reveal ever"?

Can you explain why you thought any of that?

What does it refer to BTW? I was not in the first JN game, and was NK'd night 1 on the second. I don't remember the name from the JI games.

Now, unless there are further questions I'll lay low.

It refers to JT's fake reveal in the TV Land game

[JMJ]

Do you know who Peter Petrelli is? You thought that Jets Things had revealed as Peter Petrelli in this game? And that, in this game, I had said to him "that was the best reveal ever"?

Can you explain why you thought any of that?

It refers to JT's fake reveal in the TV Land game

Doggin,

With all due respect, why do you continue to harp on this? I'm failing to see the relevance. Whether he thought it was this game or another why is it so important that you continue to beat it unmercifully?

[Doggin94it]

Doggin,

With all due respect, why do you continue to harp on this? I'm failing to see the relevance. Whether he thought it was this game or another why is it so important that you continue to beat it unmercifully?

Because this, JMJ, is where lynch all liars comes into play. I don't think there's any chance SMC is telling the truth about any of this - he knows perfectly well what WIFOM is, and there's no way he could have thought I was calling JT out on an in-game lie.

And the more SMC talks, the worse it gets - hence according to SMC my calling for EY to be investigated was both a smart move and a waste .

So, I harp to draw evidence, and the evidence leads to more harping.

SMC is guilty as sin - I'm as sure of it as I've ever been of any "guilty" conclusion in my mafia playing life.

[JMJ]

Because this, JMJ, is where lynch all liars comes into play. I don't think there's any chance SMC is telling the truth about any of this - he knows perfectly well what WIFOM is, and there's no way he could have thought I was calling JT out on an in-game lie.

And the more SMC talks, the worse it gets - hence according to SMC my calling for EY to be investigated was both a smart move and a waste .

So, I harp to draw evidence, and the evidence leads to more harping.

SMC is guilty as sin - I'm as sure of it as I've ever been of any "guilty" conclusion in my mafia playing life.

I still don't know what this means (and I know at least one other person said they don't either). Care to share?

And back to SMC, I agree he has acted weird, but the point of this game is to try and NOT draw heat on yourself, right? Well he was waggon-hopping from one suspect to another and that led to heat being drawn upon him. What did he do when that happened? He said, "I don't care. I'm a waggon-hopper. So what?" and continued to do exactly what he was already drawing suspicion for. That is why his behavior strikes me more as odd rather than guilty at this point.

Normally when someone brings heat upon themselves it is due to a mistake or slip of the tongue, right? His isn't. He is blatantly, continuously, and unapologetically continuing the same actions that are drawing heat upon himself. Doens't that strike you as odd?

Care to elaborate on why you think that makes him guilty and not just up to something? I'm not saying he can't be guilty, he certainly can, but why continue to openly do what is drawing you negative press?

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Because this, JMJ, is where lynch all liars comes into play. I don't think there's any chance SMC is telling the truth about any of this - he knows perfectly well what WIFOM is, and there's no way he could have thought I was calling JT out on an in-game lie.

And the more SMC talks, the worse it gets - hence according to SMC my calling for EY to be investigated was both a smart move and a waste .

So, I harp to draw evidence, and the evidence leads to more harping.

SMC is guilty as sin - I'm as sure of it as I've ever been of any "guilty" conclusion in my mafia playing life.[/quote]

Well, if you're right, and I think you are, you're the one who needs doc protection.

[ZachEY]

Well, if you're right, and I think you are, you're the one who needs doc protection.

Not true.

If SMC targets Doggin tonight, then he's killed the next day. No questions asked.

Same goes if SMC is targetted tonight.

They both know this one is going to be settled during the day.

Getcha' Popcorn Ready!

[Jets Things]

Not true.

If SMC targets Doggin tonight, then he's killed the next day. No questions asked.

Same goes if SMC is targetted tonight.

They both know this one is going to be settled during the day.

Getcha' Popcorn Ready!

[Bleedin Green]

I still don't know what this means (and I know at least one other person said they don't either). Care to share?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wifom

Wine In Front Of Me

From MafiaWiki

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

-

The Princess Bride

So begins the game of "wine in front of me", or WIFOM, for short. In gaming, it's any kind of game or subgame, especially a psychological one, in which a player is given a set of apparently equal choices where one or more is completely wrong. In such games one often may try to use what he knows of his opponent to make a better choice. However, in some situations this leads to recursive reasoning: "But that's just what he wants me to think, so I'll do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think, so I'll not do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think..."

In Mafia, WIFOM arguments are often a Scum tactic used to distract the Town. The scum will make an unusual play at night, which would lead to a situation that would 'clear' them (because players will think, "Why would a scum do that?"). These arguments are sometimes used by Newbies and should be avoided in favor of clearer arguments.

There you have it, WIFOM a.k.a. Wine In Front of Me.

[The Crusher]

Not true.

If SMC targets Doggin tonight, then he's killed the next day. No questions asked.

Same goes if SMC is targetted tonight.

They both know this one is going to be settled during the day.

Getcha' Popcorn Ready!

That's kinda what I've been getting at. I never cease to amaze myself. I'll take my popcorn with extra bacon please. Thanx.

[Sharrow]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wifom

There you have it, WIFOM a.k.a. Wine In Front of Me.

Haha, that's awesome.

[Bleedin Green]

Haha, that's awesome.

Indeed it is. Fantastic scene in a fantastic movie.

[JustInFudge]

WOW!!! Just got caught up on everything, been busy this morning, in and out of meetings. And so has this game. A lot of talking going in between phases by experienced players.

Great find EY. I must admit, your case against IJ made no sense to me. Consequently, I didnt vote because of your case, I voted because of how he reacted. That 5 minutes to give an explanation thing was one of the dumbest plays I have ever seen (no offense IJ).

This really puts the family in a good position to flush out all you rats!!!

[Doggin94it]

No chance I get killed tonight. I'm too high on the suspect lists - why off me when the rest of you will do it for them?

[Sharrow]

WOW!!! Just got caught up on everything, been busy this morning, in and out of meetings. And so has this game. A lot of talking going in between phases by experienced players.

Seriously. I didn't make my post last night cause I thought it might make me a target, but they don't seem to mind. Was I wrong to keep quiet and wait for the day?

[Doggin94it]

Seriously. I didn't make my post last night cause I thought it might make me a target, but they don't seem to mind. Was I wrong to keep quiet and wait for the day?

Remember, "Night" and "game night" and "day" and "Game day" are different things

[Irish Jet]

WOW!!! Just got caught up on everything, been busy this morning, in and out of meetings. And so has this game. A lot of talking going in between phases by experienced players.

Great find EY. I must admit, your case against IJ made no sense to me. Consequently, I didnt vote because of your case, I voted because of how he reacted. That 5 minutes to give an explanation thing was one of the dumbest plays I have ever seen (no offense IJ).

This really puts the family in a good position to flush out all you rats!!!

Agreed.

Sorry to post again but this was what killed me. I actually was thinking to myself "WTF DID I JUST DO" as I posted it, it gave me away. I actually don't think I'd have had a problem defending myself against EY's accustions. At least enough for that day.

The point is, I suck.

[WoodyPaige]

Agreed.

Sorry to post again but this was what killed me. I actually was thinking to myself "WTF DID I JUST DO" as I posted it, it gave me away. I actually don't think I'd have had a problem defending myself against EY's accustions. At least enough for that day.

The point is, I suck.

Shut up scum. You're dead.

[slats]

Bleedin, could you please, pretty please, explain to SMC?

Chan could tell you, too, if he was in this game instead of modding it.

The Finder absolutely must investigate Yellin at some point in this game - otherwise, if he is making a brilliant move, the town gets taken for a ride. Preventing that is as important as finding a rat (as anyone who watched the last game should know)

This move can certainly wait, IMHO. Right now EY's riding some serious bonafides. If he takes us on an innocent killing run over the next couple days, then I'd maybe "waste" an investigation on him. We'll see if this game ever gets to that point.

I figured the odds of IJ actually being scum was around 3/10. I'm seriously fcuking impressed with the way EY smelled him out.

Well, I've said my peace. Unless anyone has any direct questions, I'll hang low until or if there's any indication that Day 2 will start.

I'd've loved an honest answer rather than your evasive one to the role/roll question. You're obviously trying to say you have some important role now by asking for doctor/lawyer protection, why couldn't you have said something then?

You lived thru the day, and have our town hero on your side, is there anything you want to add?

No chance I get killed tonight. I'm too high on the suspect lists - why off me when the rest of you will do it for them?

True that. After reading your flurry of posts this morning, I'm about ready to whack you ten minutes into the next day phase. If you turn up innocent, then I'll start expressing more interest in EY and SMC.

I'd definitely suggest that the mole hunter check Doggin' tonight. I wouldn't even accept an "innocent" on face value if it came back that way. I'm beyond suspicious right now. With the 18 player game, there could easily be a "godfather" type role here.

I'm really interested to see what happens tonight. I didn't see a deadline on the night actions, although CTM mentioned one in the opening post. Is there one?

[JustInFudge]

Seriously. I didn't make my post last night cause I thought it might make me a target, but they don't seem to mind. Was I wrong to keep quiet and wait for the day?

I have been killed before for building cases before the night phase, so I understand why you didnt and I think its overall a good call.

Whats taking place right now is strange. There is a lot of almost bitching like old women going on. "No I said this, No you said that", "Your a liar, No you are the liar".

I dont know how this will help the game in the long run. The NK will be telling. What will be even more telling is the next lynching because it should give us a good indication of who is lying during this pissing match.

[Jets Things]

I didn't see a deadline on the night actions, although CTM mentioned one in the opening post. Is there one?

Friday midnight

[ZachEY]

Slats... all good thoughts... but keep them to yourself until morning. You're only helping scum right now.

Seriously.

Everyone.

SHUT THE **** UP UNTIL MORNING.