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WR Miles Austin: MERGED


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Can someone explain this to me because I'm new to the whole team management stuff. What is Austin's status called, Restricted Free Agent?

How did a 2nd round draft pick get associated with this guy?

Under what conditions must a pick be given up, and is there any way around it?

This poison pill idea sounds like it works. Why isn't it used more often, is it about maintaing your reputation so that other GMs will be more likely to deal with you in the future?

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Can someone explain this to me because I'm new to the whole team management stuff. What is Austin's status called, Restricted Free Agent?

How did a 2nd round draft pick get associated with this guy?

Under what conditions must a pick be given up, and is there any way around it?

Austin is a RFA. His rookie contract is expired, but Dallas still has a right of first refusal to match any contract another team offers him.

Prior to the season, teams "tender" each player (same way they decide whether or not to apply a franchise/transition tag on a player). If the player signs with another team, the original one receives compensation from the team signing him.

The player is guaranteed a 1-year contract for a certain dollar amount. Those different amounts are the same for each team, but correspond to different compensation: the more money guaranteed to the player, the more compensation the team gets if someone else inks him to a contract the original team decides not to match.

This happened with us with Coles back in 2003. Bradway slapped him with the second-highest tender (then $1.3M) which corresponded to a 1st-round pick if we decided not to match someone else's offer to him. Washington gave him $13M in guaranteed bonus money, so we passed on it & got Washington's first rounder that year (which we then pissed away with our own 1st & a 4th to move up for DRob, but I digress).

Coles was originally a 3rd round pick. If we gave him the lowest-level tender, probably around $800K that year, we would have received a pick from Washington in the round he was originally drafted.

There are two more tender levels: the highest (which, if the player signs elsewhere, gets the original team a 1st & a 3rd from the one who signed him), and a 2nd-round tender (which simply returns a 2nd-rounder, as is the case with Austin).

Why was Austin given a 2nd-round tender by Dallas? They had to guarantee Austin another $500K for the season, but their compensation (if he signs elsewhere) jumps from a pick in his originally-drafted round to the 2nd round. Since Austin was not drafted, if they gave him the lowest tender they would have received nothing in return.

That's what happened to us with Elam. He was a RFA who was given the lowest-level tender. Because Elam was not selected in the NFL draft when he came into the league, when Cleveland made him a contract offer we would have received nothing in return if we declined to match.

The four RFA levels are now (roughly, since the $ goes up a little every year & I don't remember what the exact numbers are):

$2.5M = team gets a #1 and a #3 if they lose the player

$2M = team gets a #1 if they lose the player

$1.5M = team gets a #2 if they lose the player

$1M = team gets a pick in the player's original draft round if they lose him.

Dallas has given Austin the $1.5M RFA tender, so we have to give Dallas our 2nd round pick if we sign him.

The only other thing is that the draft pick compensation is negotiable. We did that with Tennessee when we signed McCareins. JM was originally given a 1st-round tender (I don't think the 2nd round tender existed then, but I'm not sure). Hermway wanted him, but didn't want to give up a 1st round pick for him. So we negotiated with Tennessee to give them a 2nd rounder, which they agreed to. Why would they? Well they still get a pretty high pick, and they don't have a player on their team they prevented from signing a life-altering $30M contract. They didn't have to lower their demand from us, but it wouldn't have gone over well in their locker room or with other prospective FA's, since they were definitely not paying that scrub $30M offer.

This poison pill idea sounds like it works. Why isn't it used more often, is it about maintaing your reputation so that other GMs will be more likely to deal with you in the future?

I was under the impression that poison pill contracts are no longer allowed. Last one was Nate Burleson (signed like a $15M contract in 2006 that would have escalated to $50M if he played 5 games in any season in Minnesota, or something like that). There was a new CBA in place a couple of weeks later & I think they outlawed those contracts.

Of course little did Seattle know at the time that the poison pill was signing Burleson to a $15M contract in the first place. lol

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Ask the Giants how amazing their 2nd round WR's have been of late.

2006 = Sinorice Moss = total bust his first 3 seasons

2007 = Steve Smith = only starting now because Plax & Toomer are gone

Have to agree with BroadwayJoe12. You can't cherry-pick the ones who have worked out & use that to rationalize how those receivers are what we're likely to get.

Further, most of those guys cherry-picked were first round prospects who dropped into the UPPER half of the 2nd round. We don't pick in the upper half of the second round. So if you want to use that list, Ghost, now your cherry-picked list includes only:

  1. Anquan Boldin, who's been a total stud (when healthy) since his first game
  2. Antonio Bryant, who was jettisoned by Dallas, Cleveland, and SF before his true breakout season with Tampa
  3. Deion Branch, who only panned out with Tom Brady
  4. Vincent Jackson, who did very little until his 4th season
  5. Greg Jennings, who was an outstanding pick
  6. DeSean Jackson, damn good so far even if he is a showboat bonehead

And completing the list of bottom-half second rounders is:

  1. Jerome Simpson
  2. Malcolm Kelly
  3. Limas Sweed
  4. Dexter Jackson
  5. Steve Smith (NYG)
  6. Roscoe Parrish
  7. Terrence Murphy
  8. Devery Henderson
  9. Darius Watts
  10. Keary Colbert
  11. Tyrone Calico
  12. Reche Caldwell
  13. Antwaan Randle El

Since we don't have Tom Brady, I'd say we'd be satisfied with 3 out of these 19 by the time the player's entering his 4th season.

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If they sign him to an offer sheet, and Dallas doesn't match, that's what they have to give up, no? I don't understand where people think the Jets might get away with getting him for less. Especially if Dallas thinks highly of the player. Why would they make it easier for another team to take him?

What were the other circumstances around Welker? Had he signed his tender? Maybe that was the difference there.

Why would they do this? Because they may view a 3rd rounder (or a 4th rounder) as having more value to their team than renting Miles Austin for one more season before he becomes a UFA in 2010 (assuming there's a new CBA in place, which I'm prepared to assume).

If Dallas wanted to sign Austin long-term, they would have done so. Instead, Dallas wants another wait-and-see season from him, which is why they only gave him a RFA tender instead of a 4-5 year contract extension. Or they'd let another team make the offer to see what his open-market value is. If it's reasonable to them, they'll match. If not, they'll take any decent pick.

I would hope that Tannenbaum is calling Jerry Jones first to see if he'd take less than a 2nd rounder. That if he is willing to, the Jets will make Austin an offer. If not, then Dallas keeps Austin for one more season. If it goes down that way, Austin isn't thrilled with the team for, in his view, letting him play on a cheap 1-year contract instead of cashing in. He will probably share this sentiment to other younger players on the team. Teams never like to be badmouthed in their own locker room.

Unless he's viewed as a starter THIS season, Dallas is as likely as not to agree to accept less than the league-mandated demand.

Look at it this way: if we offer Dallas a 3rd and they turn it down, that's like Dallas burning one of two 3rd round picks this year for a single season of Miles Austin.

That is why they might do it. And if I were Tannenbaum, I'd hold strong on that and offer a 4th (assuming the Jets like him that much). Whether he pans out or not, a 2nd rounder is too high. Hope it works out if we pay it.

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It's one thing to have a breakout year when you replace Michael Vick with Matt Ryan, it is a whole other thing to fail with Tony Romo with Tony Romo still being the QB. I thought Patrick Crayton was the #2 now anyway.

Except that when Roddy White had his breakout 1200-yard season, Atlanta replaced Michael Vick with Joey Harrington/Chris Redman. Matt Ryan came the year after that. And Roddy White probably came when they drafted Matt Ryan.

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He is nasty when on the field he won their game against the packers last season.... he gets open and has sick speed and moves... he is tall... has great hands good size... yeah why so much love for a 3rd year WR... you know when most of them start to make a name for themselves...

:confused:

He had four games where his stats were 0 catches for 0 yards.

In particular that Packers game, they schemed TO out of the game. Of course he had a huge game, they were more concerned with TO.

He might be great, but serphynx is right...he is JAG right now.

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I was under the impression that poison pill contracts are no longer allowed. Last one was Nate Burleson (signed like a $15M contract in 2006 that would have escalated to $50M if he played 5 games in any season in Minnesota, or something like that). There was a new CBA in place a couple of weeks later & I think they outlawed those contracts.

Of course little did Seattle know at the time that the poison pill was signing Burleson to a $15M contract in the first place. lol

Yeah, not so much.

I do not think the Union and League were able to come to an agreement on the Vikings/Seahawks poison pill.

The Patriots used a similar poison pill to get Welker. They originally threatened to offer a 7 year-38 million contract for Welker. They would have received a 2nd, but in the end it was a 5 year deal for 18 million with a 7th thrown in as well as a second.

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Good review Sperm. One thing about that rule set always ticked me off:

Good teams have a HUGE advantage in signing RFAs over bad teams. PIT could sign a guy like Austin for the 64th pick in the draft vs. DET who would have to surrender the 33rd. I suppose it somewhat balances the benefits of the draft order in the first place and I don't see an easy workaround but it does create an interesting twist to the strategy of signing them.

Also, according to the rules, you could tender a 1st round 'not-quite-bust' at the lowest level and he'd cost teams a 1st round pick to sign, while if you tendered him at the 2nd level, he'd only cost a 2nd. Basically, if you're a 1st round pick and didn't play good enough to get an extension or at least justify the the highest tender, you're certain to get the lowest. I don't mind that at all as a fan but it does set up for some pretty unhappy RFAs :). Does that happen often?

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Im sorry, but I still dont get the concept of the poison pill. is it just we offer a huge contract that dallas cant accept?

You offer a clause in the contract.

If you looked up Nate Burelson's 2006 deal with Minnesota it went like this:

7 years, $42 million.

However, if Minnesota had matched and Burelson played 5 games in the state of Minnesota in 2006, he was guarenteed all $42 million, no matter what, instead of the real guarenteed money which was really in the $15-20 range.

Look at the Martin deal above, thats another way you can do it.

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You offer a clause in the contract.

If you looked up Nate Burelson's 2006 deal with Minnesota it went like this:

7 years, $42 million.

However, if Minnesota had matched and Burelson played 5 games in the state of Minnesota in 2006, he was guarenteed all $42 million, no matter what, instead of the real guarenteed money which was really in the $15-20 range.

Look at the Martin deal above, thats another way you can do it.

oh thanks. the martin deal cleared it up a little. like the patriots said instead of keeping martin for a year and letting him walk we can just take the draft pick now, which is what the jets may do to austin

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Cowboys Receiving Stats from Past 2 Seasons:

2007:

Witten 96 1,145 11.9 53 7

Owens 81 1,355 16.7 52t 15

Crayton 50 1,697 13.9 59t 7

Barber 44 282 6.4 29 2

Jones, J. 23 203 8.8 24 0

Hurd 19 314 16.5 51t 1

Fasano 14 143 10.2 26t 1

Anderson 6 55 9.2 17 0

Austin 5 76 15.2 35 0

2008:

Jason Witten 81 952 11.8 42 4

Terrell Owens 69 1052 15.2 75 10

Marion Barber 52 417 8.0 70 2

Patrick Crayton 39 550 14.1 55 4

Tashard Choice 21 185 8.8 50 0

Martellus Bennett 20 283 14.2 37 4

Roy E. Williams 19 198 10.4 38 1

Miles Austin 13 278 21.4 63 3

Austin has 18 receptions in two years for a reason: he has been the no. 4 WR on an offense loaded with weapons, especially one of the league's premiere receiving TEs in Witten. 177 passes were caught be the TEs and RBs in 07, and last year TEs and RBs caught 174. When you add in the fact that he played behind TO, Crayton, and Williams, you cannot count this kid out.

I am not delusional enough to think that he would come in as the No. 1, but he does not have to be that guy. This is going to be a ball control offense. When you have several guys that are big play threats, such as Austin, Clowney, Leon, and Keller, added to great possession/slot types, ala Cotch, Stuckey, and maybe Henry, all combined with a smash mouth run game, you do not need a Moss type No. 1 WR.

Sure a No. 2 pick is somewhat steep, but you at least have some NFL tape to evaluate on this kid, which is far more than can be said for any WR in the draft. I think the idea of trading B. Smith is worth looking into as well. Dallas is known to be looking for a wildcat specialist/WR. J. Jones has been clamoring over Pat White this off-season, so Smith could be viewed as decent compensation for Austin.

The Jets are wise IMO for looking into finding a young, tall, fast WR that has the rookie jitters removed. Austin has gained tremendous confidence over the past two seasons. Yes, J-mac was a mistake, and yes, Moss went for a fourth, but there are circumstances attached to every deal. The Cowboys were heading into this season counting on Austin to step up as the new No. 3 by parting ways with TO. There is no reason to think that he could not do the same for the Jets.

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Ask the Giants how amazing their 2nd round WR's have been of late.

2006 = Sinorice Moss = total bust his first 3 seasons

2007 = Steve Smith = only starting now because Plax & Toomer are gone

Have to agree with BroadwayJoe12. You can't cherry-pick the ones who have worked out & use that to rationalize how those receivers are what we're likely to get.

Further, most of those guys cherry-picked were first round prospects who dropped into the UPPER half of the 2nd round. We don't pick in the upper half of the second round. So if you want to use that list, Ghost, now your cherry-picked list includes only:

  1. Anquan Boldin, who's been a total stud (when healthy) since his first game
  2. Antonio Bryant, who was jettisoned by Dallas, Cleveland, and SF before his true breakout season with Tampa
  3. Deion Branch, who only panned out with Tom Brady
  4. Vincent Jackson, who did very little until his 4th season
  5. Greg Jennings, who was an outstanding pick
  6. DeSean Jackson, damn good so far even if he is a showboat bonehead

And completing the list of bottom-half second rounders is:

  1. Jerome Simpson
  2. Malcolm Kelly
  3. Limas Sweed
  4. Dexter Jackson
  5. Steve Smith (NYG)
  6. Roscoe Parrish
  7. Terrence Murphy
  8. Devery Henderson
  9. Darius Watts
  10. Keary Colbert
  11. Tyrone Calico
  12. Reche Caldwell
  13. Antwaan Randle El

Since we don't have Tom Brady, I'd say we'd be satisfied with 3 out of these 19 by the time the player's entering his 4th season.

I know what you mean Sperm. I'm just trying to point out that taking a receiver this year in the 2nd is better than taking one in the 1st. After Crabtree, Maclin, and possibly Harvin the rest are all pretty close. I still think taking the BPA available is the wise choice. RB won't hurt us one bit, especially with this Thomas Jones situation.

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I know what you mean Sperm. I'm just trying to point out that taking a receiver this year in the 2nd is better than taking one in the 1st. After Crabtree, Maclin, and possibly Harvin the rest are all pretty close. I still think taking the BPA available is the wise choice. RB won't hurt us one bit, especially with this Thomas Jones situation.

But history does not prove that it's better to take one in the 2nd. The reason some of these guys fall to round 2 is that there are better, 1st-round prospects in that year's draft, not simply because there are better, 1st-round WR prospects in that year's draft.

All history shows is you don't need to take a WR in round 1 for him to pan out. But that is true of all positions.

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But history does not prove that it's better to take one in the 2nd. The reason some of these guys fall to round 2 is that there are better, 1st-round prospects in that year's draft, not simply because there are better, 1st-round WR prospects in that year's draft.

All history shows is you don't need to take a WR in round 1 for him to pan out. But that is true of all positions.

Well I'm just stating that the WR position is deep this year. I rather take a great DE (1st round) and a solid wideout (2nd round) than a good wideout (1st round) and a medicore DE (2nd round).

Do you know what I mean or no?

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What do you mean?

I rather take a different player than receiver in the 1st. Mostly because if we take another player at any position, most likely we won't get the same or near the same talent in the 2nd. Sometimes you just gotta get lucky. Receivers are differnt in my opinion.

With Kenny Britt, Nicks, Robiskie, and even Derrick Williams should be 2nd round picks.

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I rather take a different player than receiver in the 1st. Mostly because if we take another player at any position, most likely we won't get the same or near the same talent in the 2nd. Sometimes you just gotta get lucky. Receivers are differnt in my opinion.

With Kenny Britt, Nicks, Robiskie, and even Derrick Williams should be 2nd round picks.

I'm still not following.

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You offer a clause in the contract.

If you looked up Nate Burelson's 2006 deal with Minnesota it went like this:

7 years, $42 million.

However, if Minnesota had matched and Burelson played 5 games in the state of Minnesota in 2006, he was guarenteed all $42 million, no matter what, instead of the real guarenteed money which was really in the $15-20 range.

Look at the Martin deal above, thats another way you can do it.

No, the NFL legislated that type of a poison pill out.

The NFL and Player's Union could not come to an agreement on the Burrelson one yet.

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We're drafting Miles Austin in the 2nd. The writing's on the wall.

I hope these guys are right and the Jets will try to get him for less than the #2, or pass on him.

Haha It's alright. BPA available for me.

And if that BPA is a wide receiver... ?

The Jets needed a WR before they cut Coles loose. It's the team's most glaring need right now. It makes no sense to pick that position out as the one you'd purposely avoid in the first round. If I were going to avoid any positions early in the draft, it would be CB and LB.

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Unless he's viewed as a starter THIS season, Dallas is as likely as not to agree to accept less than the league-mandated demand.

Look at it this way: if we offer Dallas a 3rd and they turn it down, that's like Dallas burning one of two 3rd round picks this year for a single season of Miles Austin.

That is why they might do it. And if I were Tannenbaum, I'd hold strong on that and offer a 4th (assuming the Jets like him that much). Whether he pans out or not, a 2nd rounder is too high. Hope it works out if we pay it.

Well... I like your thinking, and I hope you're right.

Seems to me if this was going to be the Jets play, though, they would've tried to do something sooner. Right now they're right up against the deadline for signing a RFA. Dallas has probably already settled into the idea that Miles will be with the team this year. If they wanted to get him for less, I'd think they'd've been better off planting that seed earlier. Letting Dallas think about what they could get with our third round pick for a little while.

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Cowboys Receiving Stats from Past 2 Seasons:

Austin has 18 receptions in two years for a reason: he has been the no. 4 WR on an offense loaded with weapons, especially one of the league's premiere receiving TEs in Witten. 177 passes were caught be the TEs and RBs in 07, and last year TEs and RBs caught 174. When you add in the fact that he played behind TO, Crayton, and Williams, you cannot count this kid out.

I am not delusional enough to think that he would come in as the No. 1, but he does not have to be that guy. This is going to be a ball control offense. When you have several guys that are big play threats, such as Austin, Clowney, Leon, and Keller, added to great possession/slot types, ala Cotch, Stuckey, and maybe Henry, all combined with a smash mouth run game, you do not need a Moss type No. 1 WR.

Sure a No. 2 pick is somewhat steep, but you at least have some NFL tape to evaluate on this kid, which is far more than can be said for any WR in the draft. I think the idea of trading B. Smith is worth looking into as well. Dallas is known to be looking for a wildcat specialist/WR. J. Jones has been clamoring over Pat White this off-season, so Smith could be viewed as decent compensation for Austin.

The Jets are wise IMO for looking into finding a young, tall, fast WR that has the rookie jitters removed. Austin has gained tremendous confidence over the past two seasons. Yes, J-mac was a mistake, and yes, Moss went for a fourth, but there are circumstances attached to every deal. The Cowboys were heading into this season counting on Austin to step up as the new No. 3 by parting ways with TO. There is no reason to think that he could not do the same for the Jets.

Ryno you bring up many valid points and all of them could come true.

I agree Austin has been behind some talent in WHitten and TO. I am passing on Williams seeing he has only been a Boy for half a season. Crayton on the other hand is JAG. No more no less. I think the Boyz expected Crayton to have a larger impact last year and he was simply meh.

I agree with your point about finding young and experienced talent. IMHO Miles is not a diamond in the rough like Welker, but a Diamond that is more like a cubic zirconia. Looks nice on the outside and that is about it.

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The Jets needed a WR before they cut Coles loose. It's the team's most glaring need right now. It makes no sense to pick that position out as the one you'd purposely avoid in the first round. If I were going to avoid any positions early in the draft, it would be CB and LB.

Here's the thing: the only way the Jets were getting out of his guaranteed 2009 season was by letting him go early.

The choices were:

1) let him go early

2) keep him & watch him bitch & moan & pout & do his Coles thing all off-season & regular season with another HC.

There was no choice 3 of cutting him loose right before or right after the draft.

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Well... I like your thinking, and I hope you're right.

Seems to me if this was going to be the Jets play, though, they would've tried to do something sooner. Right now they're right up against the deadline for signing a RFA. Dallas has probably already settled into the idea that Miles will be with the team this year. If they wanted to get him for less, I'd think they'd've been better off planting that seed earlier. Letting Dallas think about what they could get with our third round pick for a little while.

True, but that goes the other way as well. Now Dallas doesn't have a month to mull over the Jets' offer (assuming the Jets make an offer rather than just paying the league-mandated #2). Also, with their draft sheets laid out all over the living room table, they're now faced with the prospect of an extra 3rd-4th round draft pick.

I just think a 2nd is really reaching for him. If that's what happens, then so be it. But when you trade a 2nd round draft pick for a "veteran" player (along with a contract), there should be NO QUESTION that this player is your starter all season barring injury.

Hey, there's no question Cotchery is starting on one side. But is anyone 100% sure that Austin would start over Stuckey or even Clowney? He may, but here in mid April - when the offer needs to be made - no one can make that determination. Based on that, a 2nd rounder & a veteran-sized contract is too high. A 3rd I still wouldn't be thrilled with. A 4th...yeah sure. He's as likely as a 4th round pick to pay off.

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robiskie looks promising. i was hoping for kenny britt to fall to us in the second. but i'm not so sure now.

as far as this years receivers go I believe Robiskie will grant the biggest contribution to a team. I believe the others have higher potential, but robiskie will be a solid and consistent receiver for a team for at least 10 years

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True, but that goes the other way as well. Now Dallas doesn't have a month to mull over the Jets' offer (assuming the Jets make an offer rather than just paying the league-mandated #2). Also, with their draft sheets laid out all over the living room table, they're now faced with the prospect of an extra 3rd-4th round draft pick.

I just think a 2nd is really reaching for him. If that's what happens, then so be it. But when you trade a 2nd round draft pick for a "veteran" player (along with a contract), there should be NO QUESTION that this player is your starter all season barring injury.

Hey, there's no question Cotchery is starting on one side. But is anyone 100% sure that Austin would start over Stuckey or even Clowney? He may, but here in mid April - when the offer needs to be made - no one can make that determination. Based on that, a 2nd rounder & a veteran-sized contract is too high. A 3rd I still wouldn't be thrilled with. A 4th...yeah sure. He's as likely as a 4th round pick to pay off.

I agree with you 100%.

I think he should be worth more to Dallas than he is to us, much in the way that Clemens and Ratliff are worth more to us than any other team - he's been in the system for three years and something's expected (or hoped for) from him this year. So while he shouldn't be worth a second round pick to the Jets, Dallas may not see anything less as worth it to move him.

Eh... we'll see what happens. I just hope they don't break the bank in an attempt to get Dallas to pass on the match. This guy is not proven enough for a big contract - I'm sure that's why Dallas didn't give him one.

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I hope these guys are right and the Jets will try to get him for less than the #2, or pass on him.

And if that BPA is a wide receiver... ?

The Jets needed a WR before they cut Coles loose. It's the team's most glaring need right now. It makes no sense to pick that position out as the one you'd purposely avoid in the first round. If I were going to avoid any positions early in the draft, it would be CB and LB.

I'm cool with not taking a first or second round receiver. The guys we have are proven athletes with very nice hands. I would love for Stuckey to get a long-long look in the slot with Keller being moved around the formation.

As everyone would probably agree, I'm uncomfortable with Cotchery as a number 1 and that will hurt his numbers if he is number 1 but I'm ok with spreading the love all over the offense to the guys we currently have.

It would be great to have a true number 1 or even a true number 2 but with this teams make up, i think we'll do more than just 'survive' with what we have.

That said, I'm leaning towards H-Bey in the first but would be ok with DE.

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