Percy Over-Rated Harvin's stock is dropping ~ PFT.com

[124]

Report: Harvin

[JiF]

This article is full of ****, just like these rumors.

He "allegedly" tested positive for weed. So therefore, he has off-field character issues?

I follow that team like a Hawk and Percy is my all time favorite Gator. You want to say he wont be **** at the next level, fine. I cant predict the future, I think he will be special, but who knows. However, these character issues are bogus, the guy has never had any issues off the field except for this alleged positive weed test, which doesnt mean ****, they all smoke it.

O.K.

[Sperm Edwards]

A twelve? It's amazing he can remember his own name.

[SMC]

124, if Harvin is overrated, how can his stock be dropping?

[JiF]

124, if Harvin is overrated, how can his stock be dropping?

Zing!

[Stonehands]

It's a wonder someone so f'ed up was able to play on two national championship teams and manage to play hurt in the most recent championship game. Gil Brandt is one of the best personnel guys around...I believe waht he said about his talent.

[kelticwizard]

I don't think the Wonderlic test shows anything, I am surprised anyone pays attention to it or that anyone requires players to take it. Here is a list of scores of Qb's, (Chris Leak's score at the bottom is disputed). There seems to be little correlation between Wonderlic scores and eventual success.

Drew Henson 42

Alex Smith 40

Eli Manning 39

Brian Griese 39

Charlie Frye 38

Tony Romo 37

Drew Bledsoe 36

Matt Leinart 35

Kellen Clemens 35

Aaron Rodgers 35

Tom Brady 33

Steve Young 33

Joey Harrington 32

Patrick Ramsey 32

Sage Rosenfels 32

J.P. Losman 31

Matt Schaub 31

Phillip Rivers 30

Brady Quinn 29

Rex Grossman 29

Marc Bulger 29

Matt Hasselbeck 29

Troy Aikman 29

John Elway 29

Drew Brees 28

Peyton Manning 28

Kyle Boller 27

Ryan Leaf 27

Jay Cutler 26

Kyle Orton 26

Carson Palmer 26

Akili Smith 26

Ben Roethlisberger 25

Byron Leftwich 25

Chad Pennington 25

JaMarcus Russell 24

David Carr 24

Jason Campbell 23

Tim Couch 22

Trent Dilfer 22

Brett Favre 22

Michael Vick 20

Tarvaris Jackson 19

Bruce Gradkowski 19

Derek Anderson 19

A.J. Feeley 19

Daunte Culpepper 18

Aaron Brooks 17

Vinny Testeverde 17

Vince Young 16

Steve McNair 15

Randall Cunningham 15

Dan Marino 15

Terry Bradshaw 15

David Garrard 14

Donovan McNabb 14

Marcus Vick 11

Jeff George 10

Chris Leak 8

http://www.armchairassociation.com/2008/04/wonderlic-me.html

[4HCrew]

so he is going to fall right into the Jets hands so 124 can b$tch and moan for like 2 weeks

[Thai Jet]

This article is full of ****, just like these rumors.

He "allegedly" tested positive for weed. So therefore, he has off-field character issues?

I follow that team like a Hawk and Percy is my all time favorite Gator. You want to say he wont be **** at the next level, fine. I cant predict the future, I think he will be special, but who knows. However, these character issues are bogus, the guy has never had any issues off the field except for this alleged positive weed test, which doesnt mean ****, they all smoke it.

O.K.

There's ALWAYS a ton of rumours about draft choices this time of year. Some teams, I believe, start them so a prospect will fall to them. It's crazy.

[Vudu]

We need another sub 6ft Wide Reciever like I need a case of the crabs right now.

[#27TheDominator]

The weed test and posse may be rumors, the wonderlic is not. We might not know the scores of all the players, but the GMs had better. 12 is bad, but not the worst. I'm pretty sure Nicks got an 11.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't think the Wonderlic test shows anything, I am surprised anyone pays attention to it or that anyone requires players to take it. Here is a list of scores of Qb's, (Chris Leak's score at the bottom is disputed). There seems to be little correlation between Wonderlic scores and eventual success.

Drew Henson 42

Alex Smith 40

Eli Manning 39

Brian Griese 39

Charlie Frye 38

Tony Romo 37

Drew Bledsoe 36

Matt Leinart 35

Kellen Clemens 35

Aaron Rodgers 35

Tom Brady 33

Steve Young 33

Joey Harrington 32

Patrick Ramsey 32

Sage Rosenfels 32

J.P. Losman 31

Matt Schaub 31

Phillip Rivers 30

Brady Quinn 29

Rex Grossman 29

Marc Bulger 29

Matt Hasselbeck 29

Troy Aikman 29

John Elway 29

Drew Brees 28

Peyton Manning 28

Kyle Boller 27

Ryan Leaf 27

Jay Cutler 26

Kyle Orton 26

Carson Palmer 26

Akili Smith 26

Ben Roethlisberger 25

Byron Leftwich 25

Chad Pennington 25

JaMarcus Russell 24

David Carr 24

Jason Campbell 23

Tim Couch 22

Trent Dilfer 22

Brett Favre 22

Michael Vick 20

Tarvaris Jackson 19

Bruce Gradkowski 19

Derek Anderson 19

A.J. Feeley 19

Daunte Culpepper 18

Aaron Brooks 17

Vinny Testeverde 17

Vince Young 16

Steve McNair 15

Randall Cunningham 15

Dan Marino 15

Terry Bradshaw 15

David Garrard 14

Donovan McNabb 14

Marcus Vick 11

Jeff George 10

Chris Leak 8

http://www.armchairassociation.com/2008/04/wonderlic-me.html

Vince Young took 2x to score double-digits. He is an imbecile. Clearly the reason he sucks isn't from the neck down.

But more than any one example, these guys have a lot more access to practice Wonderlic's than they used to, the types of questions they'll get, etc. Given that, a 12 today is worse than it used to be.

Regardless, it cannot be seen as anything other than a negative.

[kelticwizard]

Donovan McNabb scored a 14 and has been to how many championship games? Terry Bradshaw won four Super Bowls and scored a very low 15. How's Marino's score? And QB is the most cerebral of positions.

When and if this test is ever shown to strongly correlate to success on the field it will make sense to count it as a positive or negative. Right now that does not appear to be the case.

[#27TheDominator]

Donovan McNabb scored a 14 and has been to how many championship games? Terry Bradshaw won four Super Bowls and scored a very low 15. How's Marino's score? And QB is the most cerebral of positions.

When and if this test is ever shown to strongly correlate to success on the field it will make sense to count it as a positive or negative. Right now that does not appear to be the case.

The wonderlic is probably the least important of these rumors. I think FOs look at the wonderlic as needing a minimum for each position. Players can have success even if they are stupid, but it makes FOs take a closer look at coachability and things like that. That test can be pretty easy. Players that can't get some minimal score they aren't likely to be too quick to pick up the scheme. One of thost things that isn't that important, but all things being equal you'd prefer the player to do better. It's also something some teams are more concerned with than others. FWIW, I think WR is on the positions where it is considered least critical.

[Pragmatic Bus]

dan marino scored 15

:rl::rl:

[Aqua4ever04]

Don't take this the wrong way, Joe, but you seem to develop a vandetta for players for random reasons.

I know you've been barking up the "Harvin sucks" tree for a while now, but why are you so down on he, Sanchez, and any one else that you've stuck this claim to?

Again, this isn't smack intended, I want to hear your honest evaluation. The more perspectives, the better.

[Aqua4ever04]

Donovan McNabb scored a 14 and has been to how many championship games? Terry Bradshaw won four Super Bowls and scored a very low 15. How's Marino's score? And QB is the most cerebral of positions.

When and if this test is ever shown to strongly correlate to success on the field it will make sense to count it as a positive or negative. Right now that does not appear to be the case.

I tend to agree with this idea, but there are a couple of exceptions to the rule out there. Just look at Vince Young; he's the dumbest man to ever play quarterback and he's now a back up because he's clueless to making reads, pre-snap reads/adjustments, and thumbing through progressions.

[Ghost]

I don't understand why you think this guy is overrated.

[Irish Jet]

I like Harvin, he has a lot of DeSean Jackson about him. He's very versatile in what he can do, he'd be a great in the short passing game, getting YAC because he's incredibly elusive and great in space, I love the fact too that he's not afraid to go across the middle. If he improves his downfield route running, he could become an elite WR, because he has the speed and ball skills to be a deep threat. I'd personally rate him over Heyward Bey or Hakeem Nicks.

The only major concern I have with Harvin is durability. It's a risk against the reward scenario with him IMO.

[ECURB]

NOt only does it take years to develop a WR properly... but why the **** would you want to draft a WR in the 1st round only to develop him into a situational guy... which is exactly what Harvin is...

[Aqua4ever04]

I like Harvin, he has a lot of DeSean Jackson about him. He's very versatile in what he can do, he'd be a great in the short passing game, getting YAC because he's incredibly elusive and great in space, I love the fact too that he's not afraid to go across the middle. If he improves his downfield route running, he could become an elite WR, because he has the speed and ball skills to be a deep threat. I'd personally rate him over Heyward Bey or Hakeem Nicks.

The only major concern I have with Harvin is durability. It's a risk against the reward scenario with him IMO.

The man seems to get hurt every single football game. It's rarely serious, but it's annoying when it happens. Joseph Addai is the same way; he seems to miss one or two series every singl game.

[kelticwizard]

Just look at Vince Young; he's the dumbest man to ever play quarterback and he's now a back up because he's clueless to making reads, pre-snap reads/adjustments, and thumbing through progressions.

Young is still a young QB-Drew Brees was pretty clueless his first three years as well. He turned it completely around his fourth year, now he's considered a pretty smart QB.

Besides, there is a tendency for super-mobile QB's to rely on their legs so much early in their career that they don't give passing plays a chance to develop. Young is not the first QB to make this mistake. I really don't think Vince Young is a one-man vindication of a test which, from the examples I've seen, has not been shown to predict success on the field

[kelticwizard]

Oops. Double post.

[JiF]

NOt only does it take years to develop a WR properly... but why the **** would you want to draft a WR in the 1st round only to develop him into a situational guy... which is exactly what Harvin is...

Why do you think he will be a situational guy?

He is the most versatile player in this draft, you can use him numerous ways. Harvin is the type of player that can play all 4 downs in many different positions. People dont realize how often his number was called at Florida because of all the weapons the Gators have, but the guys was our goto WR for 1st down picks ups on 3rd and anything.

[Stonehands]

Consider me officially off the Percy Harvin bandwagon. When he scored a 12 on the Wonderlic, I scratched my head and remembered that I just need him to catch and run. But, when he shows up at the combine for a piss test he knows he is going to take and still tests positive for weed (per ProFootball Talk)….I say no thanks. Sanchez or a runningback is looking better and better to me. I think DHB, Nicks and Britt are big time reaches at 17.

[kelticwizard]

when he shows up at the combine for a piss test he knows he is going to take and still tests positive for weed......

Good point, one that I am surprised nobody pays attention to. Not just Harvin, but all of these guys who are on the verge of making a lifetime's fortune as long as they don't mess up on the drug test.

One question: how long after the last ingestion can marijuana be detected? I have read that it can interact with some things more than a month after usage stopped........

[KSJets]

Good point, one that I am surprised nobody pays attention to. Not just Harvin, but all of these guys who are on the verge of making a lifetime's fortune as long as they don't mess up on the drug test.

One question: how long after the last ingestion can marijuana be detected? I have read that it can interact with some things more than a month after usage stopped........

Then he should have stopped over a month before. Or two months before. Or three months, whatever it takes.

[kelticwizard]

I agree, I'm just wondering how long the time is.

It seems to me that the longer something can be detected, the less incredibly stupid the player might be. Having a guy stop a month before the test and still being detected might not be very smart, but I'd find it more understandable than a guy who stopped on Wednesday when the test is on Thursday.

Neither one gets any awards for brains, but the month long abstainer might not be totally hopeless.

[JiF]

I agree, I'm just wondering how long the time is.

It seems to me that the longer something can be detected, the less incredibly stupid the player might be. Having a guy stop a month before the test and still being detected might not be very smart, but I'd find it more understandable than a guy who stopped on Wednesday when the test is on Thursday.

Neither one gets any awards for brains, but the month long abstainer might not be totally hopeless.

Usually a month or so.

[#27TheDominator]

Why do you think he will be a situational guy?

He is the most versatile player in this draft, you can use him numerous ways. Harvin is the type of player that can play all 4 downs in many different positions. People dont realize how often his number was called at Florida because of all the weapons the Gators have, but the guys was our goto WR for 1st down picks ups on 3rd and anything.

That's the problem with versatility. These coaches never use it. Versatile players like Brad Smith and Leon Washington rarely see the field except for plays specifically designed for them. Remember our D? All that versatility, OLBs that could play DE, DEs that could play DT, CBs at S, hell Stuckey played S in the preseason - during the season I saw very little of it in action. Just Bowens at ILB. I think coaches like getting a new toy, but then they don't really want to play with it.

Consider me officially off the Percy Harvin bandwagon. When he scored a 12 on the Wonderlic, I scratched my head and remembered that I just need him to catch and run. But, when he shows up at the combine for a piss test he knows he is going to take and still tests positive for weed (per ProFootball Talk)

[nycdan]

That's the problem with versatility. These coaches never use it. Versatile players like Brad Smith and Leon Washington rarely see the field except for plays specifically designed for them. Remember our D? All that versatility, OLBs that could play DE, DEs that could play DT, CBs at S, hell Stuckey played S in the preseason - during the season I saw very little of it in action. Just Bowens at ILB. I think coaches like getting a new toy, but then they don't really want to play with it.

Depends what test they use. Weed generally stays in your system for as much as 30 days for purposes of the urine test. Some people have trace amounts even longer. I think it's like 3 years for the hair follicle test. Look at it this way, Nicks got an 11.

Makes me think of this:

edited to fix link. Got it right this time.

[slats]

I agree, I'm just wondering how long the time is.

It seems to me that the longer something can be detected, the less incredibly stupid the player might be. Having a guy stop a month before the test and still being detected might not be very smart, but I'd find it more understandable than a guy who stopped on Wednesday when the test is on Thursday.

Neither one gets any awards for brains, but the month long abstainer might not be totally hopeless.

At 22, I managed to quit smoking weed for three months to pass a physical to get a $7 an hour job at the local utility. I think these guys have a little bit more on the line.

Liking weed more than I did could not be a possible excuse. No one liked weed more than I did.

[New York Mick]

Usually a month or so.

When you ask the question