Please Remember Lito Sheppard when Evaluating this Draft

[JMJ]

I keep reading, "WTF?!? We only had 3 picks!" Or, "We didn't fill any of our holes." Etc, etc, etc.

Well if you're going to b1tch about us only having 3 picks or you're going to b1tch we haven't filled holes then lets be fair and discuss where one of those draft picks went and why there was one less hole we needed to fill during the draft itself:

We traded a 5th round pick to Philadelphia for Lito Sheppard this year. A 5th round pick for a starting, former Pro Bowl CB who is still only 27 or 28 years old.

So we potentially walked away from this draft with the best QB on the board, the best RB on the board, a starting CB, and a versatile offensive lineman that is 320 lbs and who was recruited out of high school by Bill Callaghan and is now realigned with him in the pros.

Be fair (or don't be stupid).

[aec4]

I think we can end up giving up a 2nd rounder next yr just to be 100% on the up and up.

We didn't end up with the best RB... but we did end up with a good one. However, I wish we would have went WR. We didn't need an RB.

[afosomf]

The more i read about "'Dirty" the more i likey

may end up being an A+ when all is said and done

[Sperm Edwards]

I keep reading, "WTF?!? We only had 3 picks!" Or, "We didn't fill any of our holes." Etc, etc, etc.

Well if you're going to b1tch about us only having 3 picks or you're going to b1tch we haven't filled holes then lets be fair and discuss where one of those draft picks went and why there was one less hole we needed to fill during the draft itself:

We traded a 5th round pick to Philadelphia for Lito Sheppard this year. A 5th round pick for a starting, former Pro Bowl CB who is still only 27 or 28 years old.

So we potentially walked away from this draft with the best QB on the board, the best RB on the board, a starting CB, and a versatile offensive lineman that is 320 lbs and who was recruited out of high school by Bill Callaghan and is now realigned with him in the pros.

Be fair (or don't be stupid).

We also gave our original 3rd rounder for Favre.

We also gave our original 4th rounder for the Saints' 3rd rounder (balance of the Vilma trade).

[Thai Jet]

I think we can end up giving up a 2nd rounder next yr just to be 100% on the up and up.

We didn't end up with the best RB... but we did end up with a good one. However, I wish we would have went WR. We didn't need an RB.

Thank you .

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm ok with it either way. Going WR instead of RB only works out of the WR we would have added would be an asset. Drafting a WR is not the same as getting a starting WR. Assuming neither a RB or WR we draft is a bust, with RB's drafting one usually means getting a starter right away (if needed). They don't need the grooming that WR's - even many/most eventual great ones - usually do.

Also barring both Clemens waking up from his talent hibernation & Sanchez crawling into one, Sanchez is going to be the opening day starter. A rookie WR for a rookie QB isn't likely to make worlds of difference this year.

As rare as it is for a rookie QB to really be an asset right away, it's rarer still that one does so while utilizing a mid-round rookie as a major receiving threat.

That doesn't mean never draft a WR or anything like that. Because you eventually would like to develop one & you have to start some time. Every year you put it off is a year you wait to reap the eventual rewards.

Some of the top "#1 WR" types drafted recently have done absolutely nothing. I think people overlook that when claiming they needed to draft a WR right now. James Hardy, Limas Sweed, Malcolm Kelly, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachem, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, Sidney Rice, Dwayne Jarrett, Chad Jackson, Sinorice Moss, Maurice Stovall, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Matt Jones, Michael Jenkins, Rashaun Woods, Devery Henderson, Darius Watts, Charles Johnson, Bryant Johnson, Taylor Jacobs, Bethel Johnson, Tyrone Calico, Kelley Washington, and others...these were all "#1 WR" types. How many of them were significant contributors as rookies? Roughly zero. And every one of them was WAY more highly touted than what was available to us in the middle of round 3 or 4 this year. The lone exception might be the kid from NC who the Pats took, but he's not going to help this year either (if he ever makes a full recovery at all).

There are many who DID pan out. My point is only that drafting a WR doesn't mean you're getting a WR. Usually you just get a draftee who never lives up to his draft billing.

[JMJ]

I'm ok with it either way. Going WR instead of RB only works out of the WR we would have added would be an asset. Drafting a WR is not the same as getting a starting WR. Assuming neither a RB or WR we draft is a bust, with RB's drafting one usually means getting a starter right away (if needed). They don't need the grooming that WR's - even many/most eventual great ones - usually do.

Also barring both Clemens waking up from his talent hibernation & Sanchez crawling into one, Sanchez is going to be the opening day starter. A rookie WR for a rookie QB isn't likely to make worlds of difference this year.

As rare as it is for a rookie QB to really be an asset right away, it's rarer still that one does so while utilizing a mid-round rookie as a major receiving threat.

That doesn't mean never draft a WR or anything like that. Because you eventually would like to develop one & you have to start some time. Every year you put it off is a year you wait to reap the eventual rewards.

Some of the top "#1 WR" types drafted recently have done absolutely nothing. I think people overlook that when claiming they needed to draft a WR right now. James Hardy, Limas Sweed, Malcolm Kelly, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachem, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, Sidney Rice, Dwayne Jarrett, Chad Jackson, Sinorice Moss, Maurice Stovall, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Matt Jones, Michael Jenkins, Rashaun Woods, Devery Henderson, Darius Watts, Charles Johnson, Bryant Johnson, Taylor Jacobs, Bethel Johnson, Tyrone Calico, Kelley Washington, and others...these were all "#1 WR" types. How many of them were significant contributors as rookies? Roughly zero. And every one of them was WAY more highly touted than what was available to us in the middle of round 3 or 4 this year. The lone exception might be the kid from NC who the Pats took, but he's not going to help this year either (if he ever makes a full recovery at all).

There are many who DID pan out. My point is only that drafting a WR doesn't mean you're getting a WR. Usually you just get a draftee who never lives up to his draft billing.

Word.

[CTM]

I'm ok with it either way. Going WR instead of RB only works out of the WR we would have added would be an asset. Drafting a WR is not the same as getting a starting WR. Assuming neither a RB or WR we draft is a bust, with RB's drafting one usually means getting a starter right away (if needed). They don't need the grooming that WR's - even many/most eventual great ones - usually do.

Also barring both Clemens waking up from his talent hibernation & Sanchez crawling into one, Sanchez is going to be the opening day starter. A rookie WR for a rookie QB isn't likely to make worlds of difference this year.

As rare as it is for a rookie QB to really be an asset right away, it's rarer still that one does so while utilizing a mid-round rookie as a major receiving threat.

That doesn't mean never draft a WR or anything like that. Because you eventually would like to develop one & you have to start some time. Every year you put it off is a year you wait to reap the eventual rewards.

Some of the top "#1 WR" types drafted recently have done absolutely nothing. I think people overlook that when claiming they needed to draft a WR right now. James Hardy, Limas Sweed, Malcolm Kelly, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachem, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, Sidney Rice, Dwayne Jarrett, Chad Jackson, Sinorice Moss, Maurice Stovall, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Matt Jones, Michael Jenkins, Rashaun Woods, Devery Henderson, Darius Watts, Charles Johnson, Bryant Johnson, Taylor Jacobs, Bethel Johnson, Tyrone Calico, Kelley Washington, and others...these were all "#1 WR" types. How many of them were significant contributors as rookies? Roughly zero. And every one of them was WAY more highly touted than what was available to us in the middle of round 3 or 4 this year. The lone exception might be the kid from NC who the Pats took, but he's not going to help this year either (if he ever makes a full recovery at all).

There are many who DID pan out. My point is only that drafting a WR doesn't mean you're getting a WR. Usually you just get a draftee who never lives up to his draft billing.

But this year is different in that there was 2 top tier WR's available for a 2+, with a rookie QB starting, particularly one as inexperienced as Sanchez, it's negligent to provide him with trash at WR..

[HOZ THE JET]

lito is better than any corner we would of got in the 5th rd.

[Jet Moses]

He's a big, tough, strong kid with a c oc k ring!

[JMJ]

But this year is different in that there was 2 top tier WR's available for a 2+, with a rookie QB starting, particularly one as inexperienced as Sanchez, it's negligent to provide him with trash at WR..

I agree with this on some level, but he does have a very, very good OL and a damn good running game. Couple that with the prospects of a top 10 defense and a gameplan like Baltimore had last year or Pittsburgh had in Roethlisberger's rookie year (play great defense, pound a dominant running game, QB throws 15-20 times per game) I'm pretty sure he has a recipe for success and is in a much better situation than most rookie QBs, espeically a guy like Stafford even though he has Calvin Johnson to throw to.

And I've said this before on here but I really don't think that Arizona ever intended or intends to trade Boldin. I really just think that the team and Drew Rosenhaus are locked in a contract negotiation dispute and they are using the "Boldin is available for trade" as a measuring stick to find out what Boldin's value around the league is to look to strengthen or weaken the other side's argument.

When it is all said and done I truly believe Anquan Boldin will be re-signed by Arizona and not traded.

[CTM]

I agree with this on some level, but he does have a very, very good OL and a damn good running game. Couple that with the prospects of a top 10 defense and a gameplan like Baltimore had last year or Pittsburgh had in Roethlisberger's rookie year (play great defense, pound a dominant running game, QB throws 15-20 times per game) I'm pretty sure he has a recipe for success and is in a much better situation than most rookie QBs, espeically a guy like Stafford even though he has Calvin Johnson to throw to.

And I've said this before on here but I really don't think that Arizona ever intended or intends to trade Boldin. I really just think that the team and Drew Rosenhaus are locked in a contract negotiation dispute and they are using the "Boldin is available for trade" as a measuring stick to find out what Boldin's value around the league is to look to strengthen or weaken the other side's argument.

When it is all said and done I truly believe Anquan Boldin will be re-signed by Arizona and not traded.

I believe you were at a game last year and said our receivers weren't getting open. This is a report I heard often. Moving Cotch up to #1 and Stucky to #2 is not going to improve that situation...

So.. Now we are talking about starting a very green QB whose only experience under fire is throwing to receivers that are WIDE open. Yeah, he'll adjust to smaller windows during practices but nothing will replicate game experiences. My feeling is that he's going to end up holding the ball too long and getting blasted repeatedly until he gets panicky and happy feet, all cause he's got a way undermanned receiving corps. Remember, a good pass blocking oline is negated by receivers who don't get open for 5 seconds

The comparison to Flacco doesn't hold water to me either. First off, Flacco started the year off with 7 INT's and 1 TD, I don't believe our defense is likely to be good enough to overcome that the way Baltimore's was (unless Gholston becomes a legit pass rusher) I also think Cameron was masterful and have little faith that mini Schott can replicate..

Further, Flacco's mental makup and assets as a QB is much different then Sanchez's. His big arm means tighter NFL windows effect him less and his muted personality allowed him to be more even keeled while he was struggling. Seriously, the guy didn't look like anything effected him.

I really think we need to get a legit #1 in here for Sanchez to have a chance at being succesful...

[SMC]

I have a feeling that the Jets won't go into the season with this crop of WRs.

[JMJ]

I believe you were at a game last year and said our receivers weren't getting open. This is a report I heard often. Moving Cotch up to #1 and Stucky to #2 is not going to improve that situation...

So.. Now we are talking about starting a very green QB whose only experience under fire is throwing to receivers that are WIDE open. Yeah, he'll adjust to smaller windows during practices but nothing will replicate game experiences. My feeling is that he's going to end up holding the ball too long and getting blasted repeatedly until he gets panicky and happy feet, all cause he's got a way undermanned receiving corps. Remember, a good pass blocking oline is negated by receivers who don't get open for 5 seconds

The comparison to Flacco doesn't hold water to me either. First off, Flacco started the year off with 7 INT's and 1 TD, I don't believe our defense is likely to be good enough to overcome that the way Baltimore's was (unless Gholston becomes a legit pass rusher) I also think Cameron was masterful and have little faith that mini Schott can replicate..

Further, Flacco's mental makup and assets as a QB is much different then Sanchez's. His big arm means tighter NFL windows effect him less and his muted personality allowed him to be more even keeled while he was struggling. Seriously, the guy didn't look like anything effected him.

I really think we need to get a legit #1 in here for Sanchez to have a chance at being succesful...

Good post. I agree with lots of it, especially with the part about Cameron >>> Lil Schotty.

And yes I would love a #1 WR also. Been dying for one for years, but I really don't see us being a wide open offense and I see us making mostly short, high-percentage throws (dare I say CPF like). For that reason, I feel that we can get away with our group of WRs. Obviously not ideal, and obviously not how I'd like it, but I think we can and I don't think it will be the biggest reason he fails if he fails as a rookie.

I think Cotch will be the only WR amongst our top 3 pass catchers with Keller and Leon being #'s 2 and 3.

[JMJ]

I have a feeling that the Jets won't go into the season with this crop of WRs.

We both hope you are right, but where we differ is that CTM thinks it would be the end of the world if we do (exaggeration of course) while I think it will be less than ideal but not the end of the world.

[DoubleDown]

Good thread. Lito Sheppard is definitely being overlooked much like TJ was overlooked the year we drafted Revis and Harris.

We walked away from this draft with a potential frachise QB, starting RB, #2 CB, and OL depth. A solid draft with the potential to be excellent if Sanchez works out for us.

A legitimate #1 WR is by far our biggest weakness at this point. I think we will try to address it before TC. I know that Mangini loves TJ. How about a package of TJ and future draft picks for Braylon Edwards?

[SMC]

We both hope you are right, but where we differ is that CTM thinks it would be the end of the world if we do (exaggeration of course) while I think it will be less than ideal but not the end of the world.

I lean in favor of your point rather than CTM because of Greene.

To me, the Jets didn't draft Greene as insurance for TJ because of the contract situation, but to use Greene in a 3-man RB attack. That would be greatly beneficial to Sanchez.

Also, I think we're really overlooking Keller. Assuming natural maturation process of 1st year going into his 2nd year, Keller should be a beast. So Sanchez has a 3-headed monster at RB and a high caliber pass catching TE. That could be a very effective offense.

Also, with the TJ/Leon/Greene that means there may be more sets with 2 RBs in there.

[Sperm Edwards]

I lean in favor of your point rather than CTM because of Greene.

To me, the Jets didn't draft Greene as insurance for TJ because of the contract situation, but to use Greene in a 3-man RB attack. That would be greatly beneficial to Sanchez.

Also, I think we're really overlooking Keller. Assuming natural maturation process of 1st year going into his 2nd year, Keller should be a beast. So Sanchez has a 3-headed monster at RB and a high caliber pass catching TE. That could be a very effective offense.

Also, with the TJ/Leon/Greene that means there may be more sets with 2 RBs in there.

Teams have had QB's do very well with similar types at WR/TE. All we need is for Keller to turn into Tony Gonzalez this year, lol.

Seriously, though. Teams have had top-5 offenses with garbage pass-catchers. I bet someone now is going to give a dissertation on how awesome James Thrash + Todd Pinkston + Chad Lewis + Antonio Hasbeen + The People's Champ were such awesome receiving targes for McNabb and Feeley in '02.

I'm not saying that's the way to build a top offense, but everything doesn't suck because of the absence of "the formula" of a possession WR + a burner WR + a traditional TE.

[afosomf]

Teams have had QB's do very well with similar types at WR/TE. All we need is for Keller to turn into Tony Gonzalez this year, lol.

Seriously, though. Teams have had top-5 offenses with garbage pass-catchers. I bet someone now is going to give a dissertation on how awesome James Thrash + Todd Pinkston + Chad Lewis + Antonio Hasbeen + The People's Champ were such awesome receiving targes for McNabb and Feeley in '02.

I'm not saying that's the way to build a top offense, but everything doesn't suck because of the absence of "the formula" of a possession WR + a burner WR + a traditional TE.

Come on man

Freddie Mitchell and his hands were the glue to that team:D

[SMC]

Teams have had QB's do very well with similar types at WR/TE. All we need is for Keller to turn into Tony Gonzalez this year, lol.

Seriously, though. Teams have had top-5 offenses with garbage pass-catchers. I bet someone now is going to give a dissertation on how awesome James Thrash + Todd Pinkston + Chad Lewis + Antonio Hasbeen + The People's Champ were such awesome receiving targes for McNabb and Feeley in '02.

I'm not saying that's the way to build a top offense, but everything doesn't suck because of the absence of "the formula" of a possession WR + a burner WR + a traditional TE.

Completely agree. And LOL at the People's champ etc. mention (that was a hilarious WR combo)

Plus, I know you were joking about all Keller has to do is turn into TG, but the odds are better in Keller being an elite pass catching TE in 2009 than the Jets drafting a WR who would become elite in 2009 or 2010.

Having TJ/Leon/Greene + Keller as the focul point is a viable alternative to the traditional setup you mentioned.

[CTM]

Teams have had QB's do very well with similar types at WR/TE. All we need is for Keller to turn into Tony Gonzalez this year, lol.

Seriously, though. Teams have had top-5 offenses with garbage pass-catchers. I bet someone now is going to give a dissertation on how awesome James Thrash + Todd Pinkston + Chad Lewis + Antonio Hasbeen + The People's Champ were such awesome receiving targes for McNabb and Feeley in '02.

I'm not saying that's the way to build a top offense, but everything doesn't suck because of the absence of "the formula" of a possession WR + a burner WR + a traditional TE.

Well, betting on Sanchez as a rookie to play like McNabb in his 4th year isn't a bet I'd make..

The whole point here isn't that it's impossible to be successful with trash at WR, it's that our QB is a rookie with very little experience, and almost no experience playing games where his receivers aren't getting open..

Also, I think when you get a guy whose going to be your QB of future, you make moves with the goal of helping him be successful..

[Sperm Edwards]

Well, betting on Sanchez as a rookie to play like McNabb in his 4th year isn't a bet I'd make..

The whole point here isn't that it's impossible to be successful with trash at WR, it's that our QB is a rookie with very little experience, and almost no experience playing games where his receivers aren't getting open..

Also, I think when you get a guy whose going to be your QB of future, you make moves with the goal of helping him be successful..

It was McNabb's third year.

Clearly they felt the best way to help him out was to have (in addition to the solid defense we're likely to field) a ground game that would take pressure off the passing game. Whether that works out remains to be seen. But drafting a mid-level WR doesn't necessarily help him this year more than a dominant ground game.

There are still going to be guys cut before the season starts, there are still WR's out there like Plaxischmuck, others "available" like Boldin or Edwards or whoever else, and there's also that chance that the WRs we have aren't so totally awful.

[Stonehands]

I always thought the QB's best friend was 2nd and 4 and good field position. Sanchez will have a good defense behind him and an awesome running game, that's more than most QB's get. He also has a top receiving tight end and a 1A receiver. Let's not act like the cupboard is totally bare.

[CTM]

It was McNabb's third year.

Clearly they felt the best way to help him out was to have (in addition to the solid defense we're likely to field) a ground game that would take pressure off the passing game. Whether that works out remains to be seen. But drafting a mid-level WR doesn't necessarily help him this year more than a dominant ground game.

There are still going to be guys cut before the season starts, there are still WR's out there like Plaxischmuck, others "available" like Boldin or Edwards or whoever else, and there's also that chance that the WRs we have aren't so totally awful.

McNabb also started like 50 games in college..

ftr.. I wanted to trade for Edwards/Boldin.. Not draft a Wr in the third round.

[SMC]

Well, betting on Sanchez as a rookie to play like McNabb in his 4th year isn't a bet I'd make..

The whole point here isn't that it's impossible to be successful with trash at WR, it's that our QB is a rookie with very little experience, and almost no experience playing games where his receivers aren't getting open..

Also, I think when you get a guy whose going to be your QB of future, you make moves with the goal of helping him be successful..

That is certainly the goal.

But we can't ignore that the Jets have helped Sanchez out in drafting Greene. There was a choice here and the Jets made it.

There was no WR available in 3rd who would have a bigger impact than Greene would as a RB and Sanchez would have a bigger impact than any WR.

If Tanny could have gotten an impact WR and Sanchez he would have. Sanchez vs. impact WR, the choice has to be Sanchez.

And I know you wanted Edwards/Boldin rather than 3rd round WR (so did I), but Sanchez would still have to be the choice.

[CTM]

That is certainly the goal.

But we can't ignore that the Jets have helped Sanchez out in drafting Greene. There was a choice here and the Jets made it.

There was no WR available in 3rd who would have a bigger impact than Greene would as a RB and Sanchez would have a bigger impact than any WR.

If Tanny could have gotten an impact WR and Sanchez he would have. Sanchez vs. impact WR, the choice has to be Sanchez.

We had a top rushing attack in football without greene. Diminishing returns?

Further, with no threats on the outside and a game managing rookie at QB, lets see how open the underneath stuff is for Sanchez. Remember, once teams figured out Brett couldn't throw deep and nobody could get there even if he could, they played Chad defense and suffocated our offense..

[Sperm Edwards]

McNabb also started like 50 games in college..

ftr.. I wanted to trade for Edwards/Boldin.. Not draft a Wr in the third round.

That's fair. But a lot of the criticism is due to them not drafting a WR.

The Jets had needs at QB and WR. Whichever they decided to draft early would have been met with complaints of either:

"Who's he going to throw the ball to?"

or

"Who's going to throw him the ball?"

Have to start somewhere with one of them.

[The Troll]

Lito made sense for a 5th rounder, based on his past success. It was a good move.

However, if we are getting the Lito Shepherd of the past two seasons, he will add very little to the table.

[neckdemon]

I think we can end up giving up a 2nd rounder next yr just to be 100% on the up and up.

We didn't end up with the best RB... but we did end up with a good one. However, I wish we would have went WR. We didn't need an RB.

this wasn't a 2009 only draft. they were draftin for the future of the team. and hopefully we just set ourselves up for the next 8-10 years.....