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Pats' image takes a hit


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Not everybody is glossing over the recent exodus of veteran Patriot players. Fans and media alike have definitely shrugged off the departures of key veterans like Ty Law [news], Roman Phifer, Troy Brown [news], David Patten [news] and Joe Andruzzi. Bill Belichick [news] and Scott Pioli made the decisions and they've brainstormed this team to three Super Bowl titles in four years. So people on the outside have taken the Alfred E. Neumann approach - ``What? Me worry.''

Apparently there is one segment of Patriots [stats, news] Nation that's not so understanding: the players. They seem to be turning a deaf ear to the sales pitch management is giving: Playing for the Patriots is an honor and a reward in itself. Look at those three Lombardi Trophies. Look at the comparisons being made between this team and the great dynasties in NFL history. Look at the way the players get along, how everybody serves a purpose and nobody - well, almost nobody - gets treated like a deity.

That's been successful in the past. It's why Brown signed lower-than-market contracts for all those years.

For years, the Patriots would enter negotiations with other players with the ``Troy Brown ceiling rule'' as a primary tactic. They'd detail what Brown was making and point out that, given his contributions to the team, it wasn't right to give other players better contracts.

It's also why Tedy Bruschi [news] and Matt Light [news] took less money to stay here than they could have extracted from other teams in free agency. And coming here was enough of a lure that Rosevelt Colvin signed with the Patriots for less than he was offered by other teams.

But times seem to be changing. Troy Brown did not fall in line and take the offer the Patriots made him at the end of the season. He might still come back to New England, but right now he's out in the market looking for better money.

Andruzzi and Patten, two of the tough, dependable Patriots of this decade, took the money from the Browns and Redskins, respectively, rather than take less money to stay here and go for a third straight Super Bowl title, their fourth in five years.

And free agent wide receiver Derrick Mason, the former Titan who was released because of salary cap problems in Tennessee, actually rejected the Pats' offer and signed with Baltimore. He turned down the chance to play catch with Tom Brady [news] to join the Ravens, where Kyle Boller is the quarterback. Supposedly the decision was made by Mason's wife, who preferred to live in the Baltimore area rather than New England.

Even if that were the reason for rejecting the Pats' offer, it doesn't change the bottom line. Everybody expected the Patriots to use their success on the field to retain or attract quality players.

That doesn't seem to be happening any more.

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Good article, good post.

I think this shows that philosophy and winning can only carry a team for so long in today's NFL. The Pats, to win like they have, have beet utterly heartless in dealing with players. They do whatever it takes, no matter how disloyal or underhanded, to win. To their credit, they have "hidden" this cut-throut mentallity in the philisophical guise of "Team First - Winning Always", and have done an AMAZING job of it. They have convinced many a player that money is meaningless, that winning is everything.....a concept which boggles the mind of todays players...usually.

And it has brought them THREE Super Bowl wins. Worth it, I'd say.

But it can only go on for so long before the players, especially the core talent players, realize they too could be future waiver wire fodder....after years of taking less to win, they'll be too old to ever make the money they are worth.

And that, to a modern NFL player, is terrifying....no matter how "good" a guy is.

I'm in no way saying the "end draws near" for this dynasty.....I'm not stupid enought to say that....yet. But there are cracks in the armour. They've let alot of pieces go this time round...and lost a few others too. And there is no accounting for the loss of two beloved Co-ordinators.

If nothing else, the remainder of the offseason will be VERY interesting up in New England.

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Good article, GS. I think we saw this a little bit during Super Bowl week where the players were starting to figure out that the entire universe viewed them as merely being cogs in the Pats machine, and that nobody actually thought they were any good as a result. They all bought the company line that 'we're all a team' 'team this, team that' blah blah blah, but when it comes down to contract time, the Pats will piss on you. IMO, this is huge. Why? Because their next big FA is Tom Brady. It wouldn't surprise me to see Brady hold out for every nickel on a Manning-esque deal. And I'd actually support him for it.

BURN IN HELL PATS-NATION!!!! BURN IN HELLL!!!!!

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Good article, good post.

And it has brought them THREE Super Bowl wins. Worth it, I'd say.

If nothing else, the remainder of the offseason will be VERY interesting up in New England.

That's it in a nutshell Warfish.

Three Super Bowl victories in four years.

No fan can can ask more from the team they follow.

A good, solid draft and the dynasty will continue. And don't bet against the Pats to pull this off. :wink:

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That's it in a nutshell Warfish.

Three Super Bowl victories in four years.

No fan can can ask more from the team they follow.

A good, solid draft and the dynasty will continue. And don't bet against the Pats to pull this off. :wink:

Agree. You give us 3 titles in 4 years and everyone can bolt for greener $$$ pastures for all I care.

Post was just for equal oppurtunity coverage of both our off-seasons as Pats fans seem to blast our every move.

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That's it in a nutshell Warfish.

Three Super Bowl victories in four years.

No fan can can ask more from the team they follow.

A good, solid draft and the dynasty will continue. And don't bet against the Pats to pull this off. :wink:

I mostly agree with you Tex, but I DO think many a Pats fan has fallen into the "Yankees Fan Syndrome" mentallity lately....

I.e. Winning is easy, after all....WE'RE THE PATRIOTS AREN'T WE??

Well no, it ISN'T that easy. Try to be objective Tex (I know you can, so don;t take that as a slight please) and try to judge the events of the Pats as if you were say....a Falcons fan (someone completely unrelated to the whole situation).

--Loss of O-Co

--Loss of D-Co

--Loss of Pro-Bowler Ty Law

--Loss (possibly) of Beuschi to medical issues

--Loss of Patten to Skins

--Loss of Troy Brown (and that "heart" that he brought) to a heartless cap cut (understandable...yes.....forgivable...maybe not)

--Loss of Andruzzi

--Loss of Phifer (granted, beyond his prime and old, but another "heart" player)

--Pending Brady Contract negotiations (which none of us really know how they'l turn out....it seems he'll be another "take less" guy for the team....but we cannot be sure yet).

--No substantial Free Agent aquisitions to-date (unless I'm forgetting someone).

Now, take all those moves (well, losses) and review it as if you were a Falcons fan.....what do you say then?

You cannot possibly think that they all are meaningless, that a "solid draft" wil replace not only the players, but the mentallity theteam had the past 4 seasons. That it will replace the Co's without even a stutter.

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I mostly agree with you Tex, but I DO think many a Pats fan has fallen into the "Yankees Fan Syndrome" mentallity lately....

I.e. Winning is easy, after all....WE'RE THE PATRIOTS AREN'T WE??

Well no, it ISN'T that easy. Try to be objective Tex (I know you can, so don;t take that as a slight please) and try to judge the events of the Pats as if you were say....a Falcons fan (someone completely unrelated to the whole situation).

--Loss of O-Co

--Loss of D-Co

--Loss of Pro-Bowler Ty Law

--Loss (possibly) of Beuschi to medical issues

--Loss of Patten to Skins

--Loss of Troy Brown (and that "heart" that he brought) to a heartless cap cut (understandable...yes.....forgivable...maybe not)

--Loss of Andruzzi

--Loss of Phifer (granted, beyond his prime and old, but another "heart" player)

--Pending Brady Contract negotiations (which none of us really know how they'l turn out....it seems he'll be another "take less" guy for the team....but we cannot be sure yet).

--No substantial Free Agent aquisitions to-date (unless I'm forgetting someone).

Now, take all those moves (well, losses) and review it as if you were a Falcons fan.....what do you say then?

You cannot possibly think that they all are meaningless, that a "solid draft" wil replace not only the players, but the mentallity theteam had the past 4 seasons. That it will replace the Co's without even a stutter.

Warfish, really can't disagree with anything you said. No Pats fan can really think that things will continue on "status quo".

Just not going to happen. I do believe however, the Pats are still in good shape to take care of their losses.

Will they throw a 3rd 14-2 season together again? Probably not but they are still the predominate favorites in the AFCE. :wink:

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Isn't this what got BB run out of cleveland? I think he is a genious don't get me wrong and tough decisions should be made to benefit your team. But only to an extent. I believe all these losses will be dificult for BB to overcome. Especially the loss of his ready made coaching staff.

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Looks like the same rehashed BS. They are always looking for something bad to write about the Patriots and since they can't write about the team sucking they have to look somewhere else. Would I have liked to keep these players? You bet but do I understand? Definately. You can't overpay every single veteran on your team because you feel you owe it to them. If the players think that, they're just fools plain and simple. I can safely say that nobody here would be jumping for joy if the Jets signed Troy Brown for $5 million for ONE SEASON.

I would have loved to have Andruzzi on our O line still but the Browns were idiots and overpaid him. Last season I didn't even want to think about Ty Law leaving. He was a great player. But after I saw what we did without him this season, I knew he was gone. I didn't want to admit it but in the back of my mind I knew and when it happened, I was completely fine with the move. As far as us not being able to lure the big names with our winning ways, I think it's a little too early to say that this season. The only real big names I can even think of coming here for less money were Harrison and Colvin. This season I think the only big name we have gone after has been Mason. You're not going to lure every free agent to your team. If this trend continues then maybe that article will hold a shred of validity.

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Looks like the same rehashed BS. They are always looking for something bad to write about the Patriots and since they can't write about the team sucking they have to look somewhere else. Would I have liked to keep these players? You bet but do I understand? Definately. You can't overpay every single veteran on your team because you feel you owe it to them. If the players think that, they're just fools plain and simple. I can safely say that nobody here would be jumping for joy if the Jets signed Troy Brown for $5 million for ONE SEASON.

I would have loved to have Andruzzi on our O line still but the Browns were idiots and overpaid him. Last season I didn't even want to think about Ty Law leaving. He was a great player. But after I saw what we did without him this season, I knew he was gone. I didn't want to admit it but in the back of my mind I knew and when it happened, I was completely fine with the move. As far as us not being able to lure the big names with our winning ways, I think it's a little too early to say that this season. The only real big names I can even think of coming here for less money were Harrison and Colvin. This season I think the only big name we have gone after has been Mason. You're not going to lure every free agent to your team. If this trend continues then maybe that article will hold a shred of validity.

Exibit #1: I.e. Winning is easy, losses mean nothing, after all....WE'RE THE PATRIOTS AND WE HAVE THE GENIUS, RIGHT??

Alk, you've completely glossed over the losses that, if they had occured to ANOTHER team, you would likely categorize as devastating. But because you have the "Yank-riots" mentallity, you fail to even consider that these losses could be anything more than a small, unfelt speedbump on the way to Super Bowl Title #4.

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Exibit #1: I.e. Winning is easy, losses mean nothing, after all....WE'RE THE PATRIOTS AND WE HAVE THE GENIUS, RIGHT??

Alk, you've completely glossed over the losses that, if they had occured to ANOTHER team, you would likely categorize as devastating. But because you have the "Yank-riots" mentallity, you fail to even consider that these losses could be anything more than a small, unfelt speedbump on the way to Super Bowl Title #4.

If they were different players, I would feel much differently. I wouldn't be so rosey if we were to lose say Dillon, Brady, Givens, Branch, McGinest, Seymour, Warren or Vrable. Those guys are key players. The ones we have lost were nothing but role players, except for Law of course.

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Good article, good post.

I think this shows that philosophy and winning can only carry a team for so long in today's NFL. The Pats, to win like they have, have beet utterly heartless in dealing with players. They do whatever it takes, no matter how disloyal or underhanded, to win. To their credit, they have "hidden" this cut-throut mentallity in the philisophical guise of "Team First - Winning Always", and have done an AMAZING job of it. They have convinced many a player that money is meaningless, that winning is everything.....a concept which boggles the mind of todays players...usually.

And it has brought them THREE Super Bowl wins. Worth it, I'd say.

But it can only go on for so long before the players, especially the core talent players, realize they too could be future waiver wire fodder....after years of taking less to win, they'll be too old to ever make the money they are worth.

And that, to a modern NFL player, is terrifying....no matter how "good" a guy is.

I'm in no way saying the "end draws near" for this dynasty.....I'm not stupid enought to say that....yet. But there are cracks in the armour. They've let alot of pieces go this time round...and lost a few others too. And there is no accounting for the loss of two beloved Co-ordinators.

If nothing else, the remainder of the offseason will be VERY interesting up in New England.

Warfish this ignores reality.

This could NEVER have been clearer to the Patriots players than it was last August when team captain Lawyer Milloy, arguably in the prime of his career, was released by the Patriots DAYS before the opener.

Everyone on the Pats roster then already KNEW this regime was capable of cold-bloodedness.

The Patriots are not unselfish for altruistic reasons. They are unselfish because it is the best way to win.

Many ARE willing to take less money to stay with the Pats. Many are not. These cuts are not liable to significantly change that.

I'd refer you to this article, by the best Pats sportswriter in the region and one who actually does not have an agenda

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20050306_06pats.20a0f8e.html

No room for sentimentality in Pats' game plan

The Super Bowl champs choose to keep younger and cheaper players over high-priced veterans.

01:00 AM EST on Sunday, March 6, 2005

BY TOM E. CURRAN

Journal Sports Writer

Eventually, the seniors graduate.

And it's sad and it's nostalgic and everyone knows it will never be the same and they all worry a little bit how things will change.

Yet the world spins on.

The grand Patriots exodus of March 2005 is for the most part over. In its wake is a reeling Patriots fan base and a cadre of Patriots observers checking the foundation of the three-time Super Bowl winners for cracks.

The releases of Ty Law, Roman Phifer and Troy Brown and the signings of David Patten and Joe Andruzzi came in bang-bang-bang-bang-bang fashion.

Five guys gone. Fifteen Super Bowl rings between them. And how many words did the Patriots publicly offer on their departures? Fifteen. All about Law.

This is a time when the Patriots' clinical approach to the business of pro football works against them. They could be out there grinnin' and spinnin', and explaining the whys and wherefores of each decision. Instead, they keep silent. They assume the reasons they didn't keep these five respected Patriots around are self-evident. And if people don't choose to see them, that's their problem. Is that an arrogant attitude? Kind of. But the Patriots seem to know better than any organization in sports that anything they say can and will be used against them. So they stay silent.

And 15 rings walk out the door leaving a string of memories.

Remember that time in the first Tuna Bowl when Drew Bledsoe was imploding and overtime had just begun and Bledsoe threw an out pattern directly to Jets defensive back Victor Green and Troy Brown wrestled the ball away saving the game? That was awesome. And, and remember in this year's Super Bowl when he returned a punt 42 yards but it got called back? That was awesome.

Truth is we could roll through Troy Brown's greatest moments for 20 minutes and not hit them all. And we could get another 20 out of Law and several more from the three other players.

But how many moments were to come? And at what price?

That's the way to look at each of the four key personnel decisions the Pats have made since March 4 (excluding the release of Phifer who is 37 and was being phased out). Why did they make the decision? What does it mean going forward? How do they deal with the fallout? Let's analyze each departure starting with what may be the most impacting.

DAVID PATTEN

WHY HE'S IN WASHINGTON: This is easy, the Redskins targeted the leopard-quick 30-year-old and threw a five-year, $13-million deal at him that included a $3.5-million signing bonus. Patten (who, ironically, frequently refers to people as "Chief"), wasn't going to sniff anything close to that dough as the No. 3 wide receiver in New England. He's getting No. 1 money in Washington. This is a true, "God bless 'em" signing, as in, "If Washington wants to pay that much, God bless 'em."

WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE PATS: Scratch the Patriots' fastest wide receiver with a consistent idea of where he's supposed to be from your rosters. Patten wasn't just a dynamic deep threat, he was tough, worked hard and prepared. He was mature. His body control and speed made him very good on deeper crossing routes. Bethel Johnson, the third-year receiver who is faster than Patten, isn't into his big-boy football pants yet.

Johnson doesn't prepare the way the other receivers do and doesn't take football with the same drop-dead seriousness that, for instance, David Givens and Patten do. Either Johnson (who had 10 grabs in 2004) grows up and makes Patten's departure a footnote or he doesn't. If not, this loss -- while not reasonably avoidable -- hurts just the same.

WHAT NEXT: The free-agent wide receiver pool isn't deep. Ike Hilliard and Tai Streets are a pair of names available. The Pats have already shown they realize their need at wideout by courting Derrick Mason so expect them to try and draft a top-tier prospect on the first day of the draft.

JOE ANDRUZZI

WHY HE'S IN CLEVELAND: The Browns needed a reliable veteran with talent and leadership skills to anchor their embarrassingly poor line. So they overpaid for Andruzzi (four years, $9 million) by double of what the Patriots were offering. Could New England have ponied up for the 29-year-old? Yes. And it's easy to argue they should have given, that the difference wasn't in the millions but the thousands.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE PATS: This is the hardest loss in terms of intangibles. Camaraderie and unity of purpose are vital along the offensive line and Andruzzi was that unit's unquestioned leader. But Andruzzi is a fair-to-good offensive lineman. Finding a guard with the same skill set he had shouldn't be a terrific chore. Replacing his charisma will be. Look for center Dan Koppen to elevate his leadership presence.

WHAT'S NEXT: Between Russ Hochstein, Adrian Klemm and the fleet of guards the team figures to import through free agency and the draft, competition figures to be fairly fierce.

TY LAW

WHY HE'S A FREE AGENT: Twelve million dollars and one broken foot. That's why.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE PATS: They won a Super Bowl without him. The front-seven should be thanked mightily for that because they brought enough pass rush throughout the season to allow the cobbled-together secondary from getting torched. If they can do the same duty, it's hard to expect that a secondary with Duane Starks, Tyrone Poole, Randall Gay and Asante Samuel is worse than a secondary with Gay, Samuel, Troy Brown and Hank Poteat. They should be fine.

WHAT'S NEXT: The trade for Starks probably addresses this until draft day, when they'll probably add a rookie.

TROY BROWN

WHY HE'S A FREE AGENT: Because he wanted to be. He's not a $2.5-million salary guy, which is what he was due to make in 2005. He's not a $2-million salary guy either, which is about what he was asking for. He's a fourth receiver/punt returner who played defensive back in a pinch. That's a minimum salary guy, although the Patriots would probably pay him more than that based on who he is and what he's done.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE PATS: Hard to say. If Brown signs elsewhere, the team will need a reliable punt returner. And with Brown and Patten gone they are very thin at receiver. Yet if they re-sign Brown for a lot less will he grouse about it in private? The guess here is yes he will because that's something he does. There's a cost-benefit equation to re-signing him.

WHAT'S NEXT: Wait and see if anyone steps to the forefront, but the market's been tepid at best for Brown so far.

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Phuck New England and every single last one of their bandwagon jumping fans.

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say PutzFanTX...we leave the Jets MB when the Pats dynasty if over. He is too miserable of a SOB to pass us up now,but once the worm has turned,you can kiss his lame ass jokes and his tornado bait ass goodbye.

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You're kiding, right?

If Ty Warren is one of your "key" players next year.....I'm thinking 8-8 at best

He's a very good young player and that makes him a key player. You can slam him all you want but he's been every bit as productive as your beloved Robertson and everyone knows he's the best DT to ever play the game.

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I will never categorize the willing cuts of 102 years worth of players and the "allowing to leave" of two gutty but "adequate" players who wanted to stay as devestating losses.

I mean for f***s sake, how about those Jets devestating losses last year? Marvin Jones? Vinnie Testaverde? Mo Lewis? Those were some devestating losses, huh?

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He's a very good young player and that makes him a key player. You can slam him all you want but he's been every bit as productive as your beloved Robertson and everyone knows he's the best DT to ever play the game.

Yeah okay

Might want to stay out of the football conversations, and go back to what you're good at.....favorite movie, or flight around the world threads

Comparing Robertson to Warren is a joke :lol::lol::o:roll:

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Smizzy, I hardly believe that any of the Pats fans here are bandwagon jumpers - just a gut feeling....

RS - I was going to say the same thing regarding the Milloy "debacle" - if they didn't lose "it" then, they will not now. Shoot, everyone said the Pats run D would turn to mud with the loss of Ted Washington - hey look what happened!

The losses the Pats have incurred thus far are hardly terminal. Perhaps Andruzzi - purely becasue of numbers. The biggest loss of all could be Tedy Bruschi. I find it rather curious that reports have had the Pats going after receiver and not LB - a strength WITH Bruschi, for sure - but an aged group nonetheless.

Regardng Brown - well my feeling are well known. He's one of the players you make an exception for. You DO give him cash for time served. Troy Brown is special. That may be emotion - whatever - he and Bruschi you make exceptions for. Good news about Troy - from my perspective. Ty Law, Andruzzi and Patten have all been deleted from the Pats official site's roster as well as the e-mail list. Their jerserys have been moved to the discount rack at the Pats Pro Shop. Curioulsy, Troy Brown is still listed on the active roster, e-mail list and his jersey is still full price. I may be reading too much into this - but this is wierd, right?

Anyway, with three Championships in four years, the mantra "in Bill We Trust" will continue until he falls flat on his face.

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Yeah okay

Might want to stay out of the football conversations, and go back to what you're good at.....favorite movie, or flight around the world threads

Comparing Robertson to Warren is a joke :lol::lol::o:roll:

Yeah, says you but everyone and their dog knows you're incapable of giving any Patriots player any credit.

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I will never categorize the willing cuts of 102 years worth of players and the "allowing to leave" of two gutty but "adequate" players who wanted to stay as devestating losses.

I mean for f***s sake, how about those Jets devestating losses last year? Marvin Jones? Vinnie Testaverde? Mo Lewis? Those were some devestating losses, huh?

Did they take us to the Super bowl?? Id say those pats were a little more valuable. Good try though.

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Did they take us to the Super bowl?? Id say those pats were a little more valuable. Good try though.

Testaverde took you to an AFCC game which is more than Chad did.

Come on Smizz, you aren't that dumb. The Pats pruned their deadwood like any smart franchise that has a pair.

You root for the Jets so you might not recognize what that looks like.

Tell you what.

You can have Brown, Phifer, and Law... all 102 years old worth.

I'll take Jordan, MacKenzie, and Ferguson with a SMALLER combined cap hit.

Sound like a trade?

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Testaverde took you to an AFCC game which is more than Chad did.

Come on Smizz, you aren't that dumb. The Pats pruned their deadwood like any smart franchise that has a pair.

You root for the Jets so you might not recognize what that looks like.

Tell you what.

You can have Brown, Phifer, and Law... all 102 years old worth.

I'll take Jordan, MacKenzie, and Ferguson with a SMALLER combined cap hit.

Sound like a trade?

The point of the article wasn't who the Jets lost in FA. It was that players aren't taking less cash just to play in NE .

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Testaverde took you to an AFCC game which is more than Chad did.

Come on Smizz, you aren't that dumb. The Pats pruned their deadwood like any smart franchise that has a pair.

You root for the Jets so you might not recognize what that looks like.

Tell you what.

You can have Brown, Phifer, and Law... all 102 years old worth.

I'll take Jordan, MacKenzie, and Ferguson with a SMALLER combined cap hit.

Sound like a trade?

WTF are you talking about? You are the one trying to act like the pats suffered no big loss by camparing then to the jets cutting dead weight.

If you are tying to convince me the pats will be 100% a-ok because it worked for the Jets,you are aclown who has done a little to much reading of the idiots on kffl.

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WTF are you talking about? You are the one trying to act like the pats suffered no big loss by camparing then to the jets cutting dead weight.

If you are tying to convince me the pats will be 100% a-ok because it worked for the Jets,you are aclown who has done a little to much reading of the idiots on kffl.

Law--- A significant loss, but one we have ALREADY survived (11-1 and 3-0 in the playoffs without Law). A cap loss we were expecting for over a year now.

Phifer--- *might* have one more good year in him. I wouldn't mind having him back for depth but he'll be 37 on opening day. Not much of a loss.

Brown--- 34 on opening day. Definitely in decline. Not a shabby 4th WR by any means, but hardly a major loss.

All three players would have been WILDLY overpaid this year.

It's amazing how some otherwise smart people get retarded as soon as the topic of the Patriots comes up.

Bruschi, if he's done, will be a MAJOR loss. I'm not spinning here, I'm being honest. Attempting to say the Patriots took major losses by cutting Law, Brown, and Phifer is just ****** dumb.

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RS - why do you "hate" on Troy Brown? He is a clutch, CLUTCH slot receiver. And, be honest - if Bethel Johnson is going to take over punt return duties (in addition to KR) won't you be just a little nervous?

I agree, however, the most significant loss - a HUGE loss, would be Bruschi. No doubt about that.

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I think the point we're missing is that what are players going to think when a guy like Brown, who did something I havent seen a player do in years did and as a reward, he gets a pink slip.

In regards to the financial and personell situation it's a smart move, but will players be willing to sacrifice so much just to play with them? Sometimes paying a guy a little more than he's worth helps the morale of the team in the longrun.

You can only make heartless moves for so long before it bites you on the ass.

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JonE and Sherry don't watch Pats ball - obviously. Check Tedy's stats and get back to me on his JAG status.... :roll:

You know, just because someone has a funcky dance, great soundbite and a good PR rep doesn't mean they are better players than TB.

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JonE and Sherry don't watch Pats ball - obviously. Check Tedy's stats and get back to me on his JAG status.... :roll:

You know, just because someone has a funcky dance, great soundbite and a good PR rep doesn't mean they are better players than TB.

I'm having trouble finding it. Can you please tell me which of his stat's I'm supposed to be impressed with.

Garbs upcoming response "well you can't measure heart RSherry but if you could TB is a surefire HOF'er"

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I think the point we're missing is that what are players going to think when a guy like Brown, who did something I havent seen a player do in years did and as a reward, he gets a pink slip.

In regards to the financial and personell situation it's a smart move, but will players be willing to sacrifice so much just to play with them? Sometimes paying a guy a little more than he's worth helps the morale of the team in the longrun.

You can only make heartless moves for so long before it bites you on the a$$.

I agree Brody and there is a distinct difference between the goings on of a couple years ago with the releasing of Milloy (who by most accounts was a questionable locker influence anyway) to releasing several true gut it out guys. That combined with the Pats only true advantage being taken away (thier coaches) should put them into the tailspin we have all been waiting for.

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Sherry, you are so dead wrong about TB - but, you are one of those poeple that thinks they already know everything -except for Tatum's rep - Hey, you learn something new every day. :lol:

:lol::lol:

I expected you to comeback with something like that since your "look at the stats on TB" line didn't scare me away. Face it Garb it is the way the Pats are built. They are all niche players who do one thing well. Together they make a great well oiled machince. Now I know you will bring up T Brown and all he does but be carefull there he it is still in certain situations that he is used.

BTW learning something everyday is something you should try. Maybe you can start with the basics like football for example.

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