Pats' image takes a hit

[PFSIKH]

Globe Article:

[RichardSeymour]

IMO, you guys are downplaying the loss of your coordinators. It's not like you guys went out and blew out every team you played--you would play tight, tough ballgames won at the end, not because of great players making great plays, but by out-coaching people in the 4th quarter. Alot of times, one play, one play CALL, made the difference for the Pats. Crennell and Weis made those calls. Unless Scarnecchia and Mangini are prodigies, you guys are taking a step back this year.

Like I said, I think losing the coordinators is a significant concern--- and I can certainly fathom how you could think it's much worse than that.

If you guys want to argue that, go ahead, I might disagree but I'd totally understand the position.

The idea that Andruzzi/Phifer/Brown/Patten are major losses baffles me however. Law's a significant loss but the Pats have proved that they can weather it. Bruschi will be a HUGE loss if he is out.

[RichardSeymour]

Yeah, actually Tom you do realize we had the biggest point differential in the league?

and that we blew out the two best teams in the AFC in the playoffs?

[TomShane]

Yeah, actually Tom you do realize we had the biggest point differential in the league?

and that we blew out the two best teams in the AFC in the playoffs?

FINE! We'll just have to prove it on the field, skid-plates. Me? I'll take Heimerdinger versus Mangini and day of the week.

Alot of these arguments contradict themselves: We lost some players that are no big deal, but it doesn't matter which players we lose becaue our coaching is so good, we can just plug guys in, but we lost our two top coordinators, but it's no big deal because we have the talent to compete. WHich is it, Pats-trash? EH?

[RSJ]

I will say Seymour does a great job of copying and pasting other peoples ideas.

[Smizzy]

I will say Seymour does a great job of copying and pasting other peoples ideas.

The thing is they give him credit for these ideas he swipped from other guys on Kffl.

Hilarious.

[PFSIKH]

FINE! We'll just have to prove it on the field, skid-plates. Me? I'll take Heimerdinger versus Mangini and day of the week.

Alot of these arguments contradict themselves: We lost some players that are no big deal, but it doesn't matter which players we lose becaue our coaching is so good, we can just plug guys in, but we lost our two top coordinators, but it's no big deal because we have the talent to compete. WHich is it, Pats-trash? EH?

Not for nothing TS but what has the team done over the past two seasons? Plugged in nobodys to take somebodys place.

They went 15-2 minus one starting CB from the 2003 Superbowl team and 12-1 minus both starting CBs. They had to convert a wideout to DB. They picked another DB, Hank Poteast, that had not played since 2003 and he saw time in the Superbowl.

I will not even go into 2003, when it seemed half the team was down at one time or another.

You want to call it arrogance, go ahead. However, until the team prooves otherwise and not one flukish night in Miami, Belichick has prooven he can plug in players.

[RSJ]

Not for nothing TS but what has the team done over the past two seasons? Plugged in nobodys to take somebodys place.

They went 15-2 minus one starting CB from the 2003 Superbowl team and 12-1 minus both starting CBs. They had to convert a wideout to DB. They picked another DB, Hank Poteast, that had not played since 2003 and he saw time in the Superbowl.

I will not even go into 2003, when it seemed half the team was down at one time or another.

You want to call it arrogance, go ahead. However, until the team prooves otherwise and not one flukish night in Miami, Belichick has prooven he can plug in players.

So then you are admitting that the Pats will miss the coaching staff that coaches up those plug ins?

[PFSIKH]

So then you are admitting that the Pats will miss the coaching staff that coaches up those plug ins?

Well, seeing Belichick is still there and it was Mangini that coached up Assante and Gay, yeah I fell pretty confident about it. Plus, it was Weis himself who said Brady will be fine without him. Seeing it came from the man himself, I would guess that would be two for two.

[RSJ]

Well, seeing Belichick is still there and it was Mangini that coached up Assante and Gay, yeah I fell pretty confident about it. Plus, it was Weis himself who said Brady will be fine without him. Seeing it came from the man himself, I would guess that would be two for two.

What's he going to say? Brady is going to implode?

I see this team being closer to BB's 3rd year in cleveland than any dynasty this year.

[Smizzy]

it was Weis himself who said Brady will be fine without him. Seeing it came from the man himself, I would guess that would be two for two.

Yea ok...WTF is he gonna say? Tom's ****ed,im leaving for ND?

The BS is getting awful high in here.

[PatsFanTX]

This is how he weasles out of it folks....At that price.

I think the pats are worse off for losing 5 guys with Super bowl rings,yes i do.

Forget the price tag....just like you do when you talk about the Jets losing Fegy or Kmac you clown.

Anybody who thinks the Pats are better off losing 5 guys whop played and won 3 SB's with the pats is lying thru his flithy teeth.

Take it to the bank.....the pats got worse this offseason.

Smizz, you are a friggn' joke.

Your pathetic football team has not been to the Super Bowl in 36 years, right up there with the Cards, Lions, Saints and Browns.

And you have the gall to criticize a team that has won 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls?

[TomShane]

Not for nothing TS but what has the team done over the past two seasons? Plugged in nobodys to take somebodys place.

They went 15-2 minus one starting CB from the 2003 Superbowl team and 12-1 minus both starting CBs. They had to convert a wideout to DB. They picked another DB, Hank Poteast, that had not played since 2003 and he saw time in the Superbowl.

I will not even go into 2003, when it seemed half the team was down at one time or another.

You want to call it arrogance, go ahead. However, until the team prooves otherwise and not one flukish night in Miami, Belichick has prooven he can plug in players.

PFKISH, it's a domino effect--Mangini might be the best DB coach of all time and could take Troy Brown and make him look like an All-Pro at corner. We all saw that. But now Mangini will have no time to baby-sit scrubs. He has bigger fish to fry. So who's teaching them? And if whoever is teaching them isn't as good as Mangini, then all of a sudden there's a corner out there getting trashed, and now Mangini's defense is falling apart.

The Pats have the best system of coaching players in the league since Lombardi. Now those teachers are leaving, and if they're not replaced as well or better than their predecessors, there could be HUGE problems. IMO, by the way.

[PFSIKH]

Yea ok...WTF is he gonna say? Tom's ****ed,im leaving for ND?

The BS is getting awful high in here.

Why should he lie? So you can get your rocks off and hope that your team has a chance?

It is sad and pathetic how your sorry team's woeful performance on the field has made you so jaded.

After all, if Weis is the incredible guy you make him out to be, why should he lie? That is right, because he is the one throwing passes. Nice try.

[RSJ]

Why should he lie? So you can get your rocks off and hope that your team has a chance?

It is sad and pathetic how your sorry team's woeful performance on the field has made you so jaded.

After all, if Weis is the incredible guy you make him out to be, why should he lie? That is right, because he is the one throwing passes. Nice try.

I can't believe we need to go back to media relations 101 with you but here it is. The reason why he is not going to trash Brady on the way out could be due to several reasons. Including the possibility that he may have to face him in the future, he may be saddled with him again in the future or perhaps they are even friends. When was the last time a coordinator trashed his personel on the way out of the door?

[Smizzy]

Why should he lie? So you can get your rocks off and hope that your team has a chance?

It is sad and pathetic how your sorry team's woeful performance on the field has made you so jaded.

After all, if Weis is the incredible guy you make him out to be, why should he lie? That is right, because he is the one throwing passes. Nice try.

I don't know....maybe for his buddy Bill who he spent the last 8 months living ,breathing and eating football with, you know the guy who gave him a job?

Im willing to bet you the Pats offense is worse next year,put up or shut up.

Im not jaded,im just sick and tired of letting your tools run off at the mouth. You speak in nothing but BS and condescending tones.

[RSJ]

Smizz, you are a friggn' joke.

Your pathetic football team has not been to the Super Bowl in 36 years, right up there with the Cards, Lions, Saints and Browns.

And you have the gall to criticize a team that has won 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls?

Did Bruschi get his steroids this week?

[PFSIKH]

PFKISH, it's a domino effect--Mangini might be the best DB coach of all time and could take Troy Brown and make him look like an All-Pro at corner. We all saw that. But now Mangini will have no time to baby-sit scrubs. He has bigger fish to fry. So who's teaching them? And if whoever is teaching them isn't as good as Mangini, then all of a sudden there's a corner out there getting trashed, and now Mangini's defense is falling apart.

The Pats have the best system of coaching players in the league since Lombardi. Now those teachers are leaving, and if they're not replaced as well or better than their predecessors, there could be HUGE problems. IMO, by the way.

Good points TS, but no Patriots' fan is denying there will not be some dropoff. There will, but we are not going to go from 14-2 to 4-12. If this happened after 2001, yeah I would be a little more concerened, but this team has done too much over the last two years for me to lose faith that two coaches are gone. The talent level has gotten consistently better every year.

The Patriots have a system. Why is that going to change? It is not. As RS pointed out, they won by the largest margin in the NFL, they have a little margin for error.

[Smizzy]

Smizz, you are a friggn' joke.

Your pathetic football team has not been to the Super Bowl in 36 years, right up there with the Cards, Lions, Saints and Browns.

And you have the gall to criticize a team that has won 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls?

Excuse me?? Im criticizing seymour you clown,can you read?

[Alk]

Of course they are....because they are still on your team. You think the rest of us didn't see this post coming?

If the Pats are what you say they are...WTF would you be worried about those guys leaving? They can be replaced easy with WW fodder right?

See it to someone else.

Getting the truth out of you is like getting blood out of rock.

Screw your little slap fight with Seymour for a second and be honest with yourself. Would you compare Andruzzi, Phifer or Brown to any of those players on that list?

[PFSIKH]

I don't know....maybe for his buddy Bill who he spent the last 8 months living ,breathing and eating football with, you know the guy who gave him a job?

Im willing to bet you the Pats offense is worse next year,put up or shut up.

Im not jaded,im just sick and tired of letting your tools run off at the mouth. You speak in nothing but BS and condescending tones.

So Weis is going to stroke Belichick? Ok. So Belichik needs Weis reassurance? Weis had the Notre Dame job, he could have said Belichick to go F himself and he could do nothing. Talk about grasping at straws.

If you are tired of us, make a valid point instead of the weak ass arguments you all always fall into.

Do you want to know why the offense got better this year? Corey Dillon.

[JonEJet]

be honest with yourself.

Would you admit your team, with the player defections, and the mass exodus by your coordinators, your Patsies have taken a step back.

[RSJ]

Screw your little slap fight with Seymour for a second and be honest with yourself. Would you compare Andruzzi, Phifer or Brown to any of those players on that list?

Besides the MVP for all 3 super bowls Vinitiari they are all Jags.

[PFSIKH]

Would you admit your team, with the player defections, and the mass exodus by your coordinators, your Patsies have taken a step back.

Yeah, to at the very least a 12 win team.

[Alk]

Would you admit your team, with the player defections, and the mass exodus by your coordinators, your Patsies have taken a step back.

With the players that we have lost, yes we have taken a step back. Is it a step that can't easily be regained? Not a chance.

We played nearly the entire season without Law so it's proven that we can make it without him.

Andruzzi was a solid guard but alot of people highly overrate him. He wasn't even our best guard last season IMO.

Troy Brown did everything but at the same time didn't do much of any of it. Sure, he was a WR but he had something like 17 catches. He was very solid at nickelback but it was nothing groundbreaking. Everyone just made a big deal out of it because he was an offensive player playing defense. I still hope they can get something worked out to bring him back but he just wasn't worth $5 million and I think even you can agree with that.

Roman Phifer to me hurts the most. With Bruschi's future being uncertain, that leaves us with Ted Johnson at ILB. While extremely old for his position, Phifer was second only to Bruschi in tackles for current Patriots. He might be another one that we can talk into coming back if he doesn't decide to retire.

[Alk]

Besides the MVP for all 3 super bowls Vinitiari they are all Jags.

Well I can see that JAG is your word of the day. Did you just learn that too?

[PatsFanTX]

Excuse me?? Im criticizing seymour you clown,can you read?

WTF, you make stupid comments the whole thread????

RS made you look like the pansy you are.

How about one intelligent football commment?

[JonEJet]

How about one intelligent football commment?

The Pats have regressed, while the Jets have improved

[PFSIKH]

The Pats have regressed, while the Jets have improved

While Coles for Moss is an upgrade, Coles still has a gimpy toe and Chad a gimpy shoulder.

Plus, you lost a young OL.

How exactly are you getting better?

Tex - I think Smiz has SRS. Semen Retention Syndrome.

[RichardSeymour]

The Pats have regressed, while the Jets have improved

I hope the Jets improve like they have so far this offseason every year.

[PatsFanTX]

The Pats have regressed, while the Jets have improved

JonE, keep telling yourself that.

McKenzie-Ferguson-Jordan

vs

Law-Patten-Brown?

Pats just reload and make the right decisions, incompetitent FO.

[RSJ]

Well I can see that JAG is your word of the day. Did you just learn that too?

Seriously though I will have this conversation with you as a mature adult because I know you can handle it as opposed to others who just steal long drawn out diatribes that are thought out by others on other sites.

I do not believe that the players leaving will have as much of an effect on the Pats as the 2 coordinators will. The Pats front 7 on defense is still excellent at creating mismatches. With the possible exception of MLB. The Pats can match up with any style of offense. The front 7 is really the heart of the Pats D. Now here is the tricky part. The Pats will have a hard time filling those rolls of the players who have left. Yes I know it sounds like a contradiction, but it's not. They will have a hard time replacing these players more than they will miss them per se. The Pats lost a lot of players in terms of numbers. Considering each one fills a niche in thier team. Each one will need to be coached up. That was the key to the Pats success these last 4 years. They threw so many players at you that executed their own niche in the system well, and each did something different. The Pats gave you more than you could possibly prepare for in a given week. This is why I think they will miss their coaches dearly and combined with a large number of players lost it will have its effect.

[TomShane]

IMO, the Jets have NOT gotten better this off-season, outside of getting Dinger. Chad won't be ready, we have no RT, we have no DT, and our corner situation is still unresolved.

However, the Pats have come back to the pack a little bit. They're still #1 in the AFC East pretty easily, but it's not the the mile-and-a-half that they were last year. IMO, a few decent acquisitions by the Jets, Colts, Chiefs and Steelers, and the Pats have alot to worry about.

[RichardSeymour]

Seriously though I will have this conversation with you as a mature adult because I know you can handle it as opposed to others who just steal long drawn out diatribes that are thought out by others on other sites.

Cite me one example of that.

One.

I bring news as reported in KFFL threads over here sometimes but I do NOT steal long drawn out diatribes that are thought out by others. That's horse****.

[PatsFanTX]

IMO, the Jets have NOT gotten better this off-season, outside of getting Dinger. Chad won't be ready, we have no RT, we have no DT, and our corner situation is still unresolved.

However, the Pats have come back to the pack a little bit. They're still #1 in the AFC East pretty easily, but it's not the the mile-and-a-half that they were last year. IMO, a few decent acquisitions by the Jets, Colts, Chiefs and Steelers, and the Pats have alot to worry about.

Word.

But you are still an A-hole TS.