Ooh Ow. PFW's Jets Draft Grade: "Average"; Pats, "Outstanding"

[Klecko73isGod]

This thread is a joke. The Pats do what is best for them. They have less roster spots to fill than most other teams so they don't give a crap if they miss on a draft pick.

When the Pats draft in the top 10 they make excellent decisions.

I don't give a crap if the "experts" say the Pats had a good or bad draft. All I know is that the Pats have put a damn good team on the field since 2001. That's all that matters.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read on a message board.

Do you understand the concept of attrition? String together a few bad drafts because you "don't give a crap if you miss on a pick" and suddenly you're a 6-10 team.

[Gainzo]

That's one of the dumbest things I've read on a message board.

Do you understand the concept of attrition? String together a few bad drafts because you "don't give a crap if you miss on a pick" and suddenly you're a 6-10 team.

Contrary to popular belief the Pats don't have bad drafts. They always get a starter/contributor or two every single year even though their draft position is always way behind the Jets.

[dbatesman]

Contrary to popular belief the Pats don't have bad drafts. They always get a starter/contributor or two every single year even though their draft position is always way behind the Jets.

And yet when the Jets come out of the draft with "a starter or two," we get ripped by the Chowds for not getting enough depth.

[Gainzo]

And yet when the Jets come out of the draft with "a starter or two," we get ripped by the Chowds for not getting enough depth.

I've never ripped the Jets for their drafting (apart from DRob!). You guys have done well the past few years getting some very good players.

My point is that I don't care what other fans or the "experts" say about the Pats drafts.

I think we can all agree that the Pats aren't stupid.

[dbatesman]

I've never ripped the Jets for their drafting (apart from DRob!). You guys have done well the past few years getting some very good players.

My point is that I don't care what other fans or the "experts" say about the Pats drafts.

I think we can all agree that the Pats aren't stupid.

Agreed--it wasn't directed at you. My point is just that the Jets and Pats seem to have very different strategies (Jets: trade up, Pats: trade down), but the end result is that both teams seem to end up with very talented players from the top of their drafts, but very few of their late-rounders stick.

[Gainzo]

Agreed--it wasn't directed at you. My point is just that the Jets and Pats seem to have very different strategies (Jets: trade up, Pats: trade down), but the end result is that both teams seem to end up with very talented players from the top of their drafts, but very few of their late-rounders stick.

No worries. I laugh that some people take the draft as the end all be all of a football team. I prefer that my team actually wins games on the field, not in the draft room.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

The 2009 draft class was a very weak class. The Jets handled the 2009 draft just like the last weak draft in 2007, the Jets identify the few gems in the draft and give up their excess draft picks. In 2007 it was stud CB in Revis and ILB and Harris the Jets identified. If the Jets walk away from this weak draft class with a franchise QB and very good RB this will be a great draft for the Jets no matter how any one else wants to spin it.

[PFSIKH]

That's one of the dumbest things I've read on a message board.

Do you understand the concept of attrition? String together a few bad drafts because you "don't give a crap if you miss on a pick" and suddenly you're a 6-10 team.

It is true.

How many open roster spots is a team that is 43-11 over the last 3 years going to have? Not many.

As long as they hit more then miss on the first and seconds, the 7 of 8 players drafted below #127 in 2007 that are gone is not the big of a concern. Especially, when a 2nd, 4th and 7th were traded for Welker and Moss. If Alex Smith pans out, think I care about the 5th gave up next year for him? No.

A veteran is going to have a shorter life span, but will probably pick-up the Patriots system quicker.

Blah Blah Blah.

As long as he stays away from WRs in the 2nd, Belichick is good.

We are essentially saying the same thing. While it would be nice to replace the 'old' veterans with young players equal in talent, that is a pipe dream. "Mike Vrabel is not walking through that door." That is why you go get the aged vets like Baker and Taylor .

The Patriots due to their success do not get the benefit of drafting high when you might expect a player of that caliber unless they acquire a 1st. So they have to make do with what their lot in life.

The acquiring of extra picks is not the be all end all, but it allows a team flexibility. A 4th for Moss? Sure. A 2nd and 7th for Welker? No problem. The Patriots do move up and I imagine if next year there is that 6'5" 260lbs lightning quick LBer, Belichick would consider moving up for him.

The Jets made an excellent move getting Sanchez. They are good enough to not have that caliber of a player available and not bad enough to get that high. If he pans out, in 5 years they are likely to have the best QB situation in the AFC East. Unless, Patt White pans out.

[Pyper]

With the Patriots depth its unrealistic to expect late round picks to stick. The key for them (and all teams) is to hit on the picks in the first three rounds. That's no easy task but if you can get 6,7, or 8 chances instead of the customary 3 at least your odds will improve dramatically.

I'd say most teams would be pretty happy to find three starters/contributors per draft. Anything above that is gravy. When you position yourself with 6-8 picks in the 2nd & 3rd round you're hoping for a big helping of gravy.

[Sperm Edwards]

As long as he stays away from WRs in the 2nd, Belichick is good.

We are essentially saying the same thing. While it would be nice to replace the 'old' veterans with young players equal in talent, that is a pipe dream. "Mike Vrabel is not walking through that door." That is why you go get the aged vets like Baker and Taylor .

The Patriots due to their success do not get the benefit of drafting high when you might expect a player of that caliber unless they acquire a 1st. So they have to make do with what their lot in life.

The acquiring of extra picks is not the be all end all, but it allows a team flexibility. A 4th for Moss? Sure. A 2nd and 7th for Welker? No problem. The Patriots do move up and I imagine if next year there is that 6'5" 260lbs lightning quick LBer, Belichick would consider moving up for him.

The Jets made an excellent move getting Sanchez. They are good enough to not have that caliber of a player available and not bad enough to get that high. If he pans out, in 5 years they are likely to have the best QB situation in the AFC East. Unless, Patt White pans out.

So what are you arguing with me about.

All I've been saying is that the Pats handled this draft differently than the Jets due to differences in their respective situations rather than a difference in philosophy or unwritten rules about how to handle each off-season or each draft.

EVERY team wants to stockpile draft picks. Of course they also all crave being in the great situation the Pats are in: that they don't have a glaring need that will keep them from making another SB run this year. A team like that can stockpile or take the BPA at a position they have no need for now or in the near future (see Pittsburgh drafting Mendenhall, having him miss the season, and they won a SB anyway).

[PatriotReign37]

Outside of your desire to alter the subject, you're the perfect guy to ask. You think Bethel was worth a second round pick as a one dimensional return man, you must think Miller was, too. No?

I also think D'Brick is nothing special, but Revis is a top flight corner.

Again, I'm the wrong person to ask. I dont ever recall noticing Coleman even on the field.

Secondly, I never said Johnson was worth a 2nd. Just that he did make crucial plays for NE that had an impact on the game. He wasnt a total bust like Jackson. At times Johnson showed flashes of getting it as a WR.

Lastly, Revis faced: Penny, Cassel, Losman, Wallace, Collins... in 2008. When he begins to shut down P Manning, Brady and guys like Drew Brees, maybe then will he be a top flight CB.

[Klecko73isGod]

Again, I'm the wrong person to ask. I dont ever recall noticing Coleman even on the field.

Secondly, I never said Johnson was worth a 2nd. Just that he did make crucial plays for NE that had an impact on the game. He wasnt a total bust like Jackson. At times Johnson showed flashes of getting it as a WR.

Lastly, Revis faced: Penny, Cassel, Losman, Wallace, Collins... in 2008. When he begins to shut down P Manning, Brady and guys like Drew Brees, maybe then will he be a top flight CB.

You're a complete moron.

CBs are judged by what WRs do against them, not QBs.

Just for you information since you're apparently too stupid to look it up, Randy Moss, whom Revis covered in both games against the Pats last year, had a total of 5 catches for 48 yards in two games agains the Jets last year, with his TD in second game coming against Ty Law, not Revis.

[PatriotReign37]

You're a complete moron.

CBs are judged by what WRs do against them, not QBs.

Just for you information since you're apparently too stupid to look it up, Randy Moss, whom Revis covered in both games against the Pats last year, had a total of 5 catches for 48 yards in two games agains the Jets last year, with his TD in second game coming against Ty Law, not Revis.

Well, for you information, you be an IDIOT.

Whos playing QB has EVERYTHING to do with a WR's performance.

Homer

[newjakecity]

Well, for you information, you be an IDIOT.

Whos playing QB has EVERYTHING to do with a WR's performance.

Homer

True. I mean its not like the guy that replaced Brady last season played well enough to have the franchise tag placed on him or anything

[Irish Jet]

Again, I'm the wrong person to ask. I dont ever recall noticing Coleman even on the field.

Secondly, I never said Johnson was worth a 2nd. Just that he did make crucial plays for NE that had an impact on the game. He wasnt a total bust like Jackson. At times Johnson showed flashes of getting it as a WR.

Lastly, Revis faced: Penny, Cassel, Losman, Wallace, Collins... in 2008. When he begins to shut down P Manning, Brady and guys like Drew Brees, maybe then will he be a top flight CB.

He's played Brady twice. Brady avoided him for the most part and got picked by him when he did try and throw at him.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

Well, for you information, you be an IDIOT.

Whos playing QB has EVERYTHING to do with a WR's performance.

Homer

I guess moron would be a complement to you like the poster you responded to pointed out. He pointed out that CB are judged by the WR which is 100% correct. Where you come up WR to QB is just indicating you are the biggest moron on the Web.

[#27TheDominator]

We are essentially saying the same thing. While it would be nice to replace the 'old' veterans with young players equal in talent, that is a pipe dream. "Mike Vrabel is not walking through that door." That is why you go get the aged vets like Baker and Taylor .

So what are you arguing with me about.

All I've been saying is that the Pats handled this draft differently than the Jets due to differences in their respective situations rather than a difference in philosophy or unwritten rules about how to handle each off-season or each draft.

So, it's settled. We all agree. T 0'Shane is wrong.

[Klecko73isGod]

Well, for you information, you be an IDIOT.

Whos playing QB has EVERYTHING to do with a WR's performance.

Homer

First of all, you can't make this stuff up. Learn to speak the ****ing language jackass.

Secondly, go take a look at Mr. Brady's numbers before and after having Mr. Moss as his teammate.

[PFSIKH]

He's played Brady twice. Brady avoided him for the most part and got picked by him when he did try and throw at him.

I am not disagreeing with the point being made and Revis is great. In that 'one' game, Brady was 22-28 - 297 yards 3 TDs. IN both games Randy had 14 catches for 262 yards.

There is a difference defending Brady/Moss and Cassell/Moss. Cassell has not developed a deep ball. He is marginal throwing the ball over 10 yards. Brady maximizes Moss talents more as he can use his speed/moves to get open deep. This year shall be interesting.

[Sperm Edwards]

I am not disagreeing with the point being made and Revis is great. In that 'one' game, Brady was 22-28 - 297 yards 3 TDs. IN both games Randy had 14 catches for 262 yards.

There is a difference defending Brady/Moss and Cassell/Moss. Cassell has not developed a deep ball. He is marginal throwing the ball over 10 yards. Brady maximizes Moss talents more as he can use his speed/moves to get open deep. This year shall be interesting.

Revis was a rookie when Brady was throwing to Moss. One of them was in his first NFL game after missing most of his first training camp in a holdout. Half the time Barrett & Miller were on him anyway.

The other game he had that one long catch, but looking now (no way I remember this offhand) 8 of his 13 attempts to Moss were incompletions (1 was a pick and 5 were catches). There was also another with a PI on Rhodes, but I don't remember the play or who was on Moss.

Given how the rest of the league fared against Brady & Moss together, I'd say Revis has held his own once he was past his first NFL game.

[Irish Jet]

I am not disagreeing with the point being made and Revis is great. In that 'one' game, Brady was 22-28 - 297 yards 3 TDs. IN both games Randy had 14 catches for 262 yards.

There is a difference defending Brady/Moss and Cassell/Moss. Cassell has not developed a deep ball. He is marginal throwing the ball over 10 yards. Brady maximizes Moss talents more as he can use his speed/moves to get open deep. This year shall be interesting.

I was talking about the games with Brady only. Not with Cassell.

The first game Revis was not on Moss, in fact I can't remember the Pats throwing his way at all in that game, they at least didn't do it too often and that was with Revis (A rookie who had held out through most of camp) playing in his FIRST NFL game.

In the 2nd game Brady really struggled, and that one deep ball to Moss which inflated both of their stats should have been offensive pass interference. Even that one big play did not come on Revis and Brady got picked by Revis in the same game.

My point is a CB can't shut down a QB without help from the team around him. Revis has been great in games vs The Pats but he's not going to shut down Brady single handedly which is what PR37 was implying.

[T0mShane]

Shane, you're awful. You make no sense, have been pwned repeatedly by multiple different posters, and flip flop your ideas and thoughts like John Kerry with Bill Bellichick's dick in his mouth.

You were gone for years and you certainly were not missed.

Holy! Ok. Ow.

All in all, this is a good thread, though, eh? People take this **** too seriously.

[JMJ]

Holy! Ok. Ow.

All in all, this is a good thread, though, eh? People take this **** too seriously.

I don't take these boards seriously at all anymore. I pretty much come here (especially in the offseason) for nothing but laughs. You just don't make me (or many others) laugh.

[PatriotReign37]

First of all, you can't make this stuff up. Learn to speak the ****ing language jackass.

Secondly, go take a look at Mr. Brady's numbers before and after having Mr. Moss as his teammate.

Thanks for making my point.

07 Brady & Moss = 23 TD's

08 Cassel & Moss = 11 TD's

Only a 100% increase for Moss playing with a HOF QB vs a guy that struggled to get him the ball. Without question the QB is playing vs the DB and the DB is watching the QB's eyes trying to gain an advantage.

Deon Sanders and Ty Law shut down their half of the field because QB's were afraid to throw in their direction. And thats why they will be in the HOF.

[PatriotReign37]

I guess moron would be a complement to you like the poster you responded to pointed out. He pointed out that CB are judged by the WR which is 100% correct. Where you come up WR to QB is just indicating you are the biggest moron on the Web.

Take Revis's jockstrap off your head, he needs it back.

[Klecko73isGod]

Thanks for making my point.

07 Brady & Moss = 23 TD's

08 Cassel & Moss = 11 TD's

Only a 100% increase for Moss playing with a HOF QB vs a guy that struggled to get him the ball. Without question the QB is playing vs the DB and the DB is watching the QB's eyes trying to gain an advantage.

Deon Sanders and Ty Law shut down their half of the field because QB's were afraid to throw in their direction. And thats why they will be in the HOF.

You're nothing but a homerriffic asshead.

[PatriotReign37]

You're nothing but a homerriffic asshead.

Thats it? :rolleyes:Weak Man