Does Sanchez Lack The Arm Strength To Play In The Meadowlands? ~ CBS Sports

[JohnnyHector]

Name 10 quarterbacks that were better than Chad in 2008. There's no way you can do it.

Brees

Warner

Cutler

P. Manning

Rivers

Rodgers

McNabb

Cassel

Romo

That's a list of 9 QB's who were better than Pennington based on last season's performance alone... and before you throw out his 11-5 record, I am referring to their individual performances, not how well their defense played, how well-coached the team was, or the strength of schedule.

Allow me to add the following QB's who I would take over Pennington in a heartbeat:

Brady

Roethlisberger

E. Manning

Palmer

I'm already up to 13 here, and I'm leaving out guys like Schaub, Ryan, and Flacco, who don't have the track records yet, but who any team in the league would rather have behind center next year than Pennington.

[Aqua4ever04]

Brees

Warner

Cutler

P. Manning

Rivers

Rodgers

McNabb

Cassel

Romo

That's a list of 9 QB's who were better than Pennington based on last season's performance alone... and before you throw out his 11-5 record, I am referring to their individual performances, not how well their defense played, how well-coached the team was, or the strength of schedule.

Allow me to add the following QB's who I would take over Pennington in a heartbeat:

Brady

Roethlisberger

E. Manning

I'm already up to 12 here, and I'm leaving out guys like Schaub, Ryan, and Flacco, who don't have the track records yet, but who any team in the league would rather have behind center next year than Pennington.

I already posted the evidence, you're wrong by all measures. I already posted that he was statiscally better than McNabb, Manning, Roethlisberger and Ryan.

And it's funny you mention defenses winning games and then you post Ben Roethlisberger and his +2 TD/INT ratio. HAHA!

Cassel was not better, you're reaching now. Once again, you're wrong and you know it.

[CTM]

Chad Pennington - 67.4 % 3,653 yards, 19 TDs, 7 INTs, 7.7 YPA

Donovan McNabb - 60.4% 3,916 yards, 23 TDs, 11 INTs, 6.9 YPA (Chad was better)

Ben Roethlisberger - 59.9% 3,301 yards, 17 TDs, 15 INTs, 7.0 YPA (Chad was way better.)

Matt Ryan - 61.1%, 3,440 yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs, 7.9 YPA (Chad was better)

Eli Manning - 60.3%, 3,238 yards, 21 TDs, 10 INTs, 6.8 YPA (Chad was better)

Carson Palmer has done anything at all for two years.

Do these players have more potential and more physical skills than Chad? Yes, they do. But do they produce more than him? Absolutely not.

Chad was top 10 in the NFL in:

Completions (but not in attempts)

Completion % (#1)

Yards

Yards Per Attempt

Fewest INTs (Fewest amongst any starter)

To say he is not a top 10 quarterback just shows ignornace, nothing more.

You're team played the easiest schedule in football last year. Maybe ever. Plus you ran a gimmick offense that gave Chad countless stat padding big plays. Gimme a break.

Your own coach is already talking about benching him, why do you think that is?

[Aqua4ever04]

You're team played the easiest schedule in football last year. Maybe ever. Plus you ran a gimmick offense that gave Chad countless stat padding big plays. Gimme a break.

Your own coach is already talking about benching him, why do you think that is?

The difference between your guys arguments is that you have excuses and I have facts. When the game was on the line and our running game was being shut down, Chad was out there winning games for us.

And the gimmick offense cracks me up. Such a gimmick that it worked week in and week out.

And Chad is the starter for 2009, that's already been announced. I know, Tony knows and even Penny knows that the future is with Henne and we have to proceed accordingly.

That doesn't change the fact that Chad Pennington was a top 10 QB last year. You cannot deny that. If he had never played for the Jets, you would agree.

[ZachEY]

The difference between your guys arguments is that you have excuses and I have facts. When the game was on the line and our running game was being shut down, Chad was out there winning games for us.

And the gimmick offense cracks me up. Such a gimmick that it worked week in and week out.

And Chad is the starter for 2009, that's already been announced. I know, Tony knows and even Penny knows that the future is with Henne and we have to proceed accordingly.

That doesn't change the fact that Chad Pennington was a top 10 QB last year. You cannot deny that. If he had never played for the Jets, you would agree.

He was not in the top 10 in TDs, he did not run a top 10 offense, and QBs don't play defense.

Sorry, you're wrong.

You're also dumb, and I'd have to assume ugly.

[Aqua4ever04]

He was not in the top 10 in TDs, he did not run a top 10 offense, and QBs don't play defense.

Sorry, you're wrong.

You're also dumb, and I'd have to assume ugly.

How many teams in NFL history have turned the ball over just 13 times? I think Chad MAY have had something to do with that. Cutler and his 25 TDs are good, but his 18 INTs are a HUGE reason why the Broncos missed the playoffs and the Dolphins did not.

And was the personal attack really neccessary? Are you that unsatisfied with yourself?

[JohnnyHector]

I already posted the evidence, you're wrong by all measures. I already posted that he was statiscally better than McNabb, Manning, Roethlisberger and Ryan.

And it's funny you mention defenses winning games and then you post Ben Roethlisberger and his +2 TD/INT ratio. HAHA!

Cassel was not better, you're reaching now. Once again, you're wrong and you know it.

I didn't include E. Manning, Roethlisberger, or Ryan in the list of 9 QB's I said put up better performances than Chad last season, so calm your nuts.

As far as McNabb, he was behind center for the 6th ranked scoring offense in the league, while Miami ranked 21st. McNabb also took his team to the Conference Championship, while Chad threw 4 picks in the Wild Card game... that makes up for the relatively minor differences in statistics you cited. Win McNabb.

Regarding Roethlisberger, his game-winning drive in the Super Bowl trumps everything Pennington has done in his entire, mediocre career.

Lastly, with Cassel, I'll concede that he was probably not better than Pennington, but numbers-wise, they are very close. Trim my list of "better last year" to 8 and my list of "clearly better for this season" to 12. Again, that's not even counting Ryan, Schaub, Flacco, etc.

[JohnnyHector]

Cutler and his 25 TDs are good, but his 18 INTs are a HUGE reason why the Broncos missed the playoffs and the Dolphins did not.

Clearly, the Broncos' 30th ranked defense versus Miami's 9th ranked defense did not factor into the equation at all (not to mention strength of schedule).

[Aqua4ever04]

I didn't include E. Manning, Roethlisberger, or Ryan in the list of 9 QB's I said put up better performances than Chad last season, so calm your nuts.

As far as McNabb, he was behind center for the 6th ranked scoring offense in the league, while Miami ranked 21st. McNabb also took his team to the Conference Championship, while Chad threw 4 picks in the Wild Card game... that makes up for the relatively minor differences in statistics you cited. Win McNabb.

Regarding Roethlisberger, his game-winning drive in the Super Bowl trumps everything Pennington has done in his entire, mediocre career.

Lastly, with Cassel, I'll concede that he was probably not better than Pennington, but numbers-wise, they are very close. Trim my list of "better last year" to 8 and my list of "clearly better for this season" to 12. Again, that's not even counting Ryan, Schaub, Flacco, etc.

Didn't you say we were talking about individual performances and not the performances of the team? Our leading receiver had 800 yards. We didn't have a 1000 yard rusher. Our entire interior offensive line was depleted by injuries (Smiley and Thomas lost for the year while Satele played through an injury all year and sucked doing it.)

Chad carried our offense last year.

And if you think that Flacco, Schaub and Ryan were better quarterbacks last year, you're just not using your head but rather bias.

Matt Ryan had the league's top rusher. Joe Flacco had the league's #2 defense and Matt Schaub had the AFC's best receiver.

Chad did way more than those guys with way less.

[CTM]

The difference between your guys arguments is that you have excuses and I have facts. When the game was on the line and our running game was being shut down, Chad was out there winning games for us.

And the gimmick offense cracks me up. Such a gimmick that it worked week in and week out.

And Chad is the starter for 2009, that's already been announced. I know, Tony knows and even Penny knows that the future is with Henne and we have to proceed accordingly.

That doesn't change the fact that Chad Pennington was a top 10 QB last year. You cannot deny that. If he had never played for the Jets, you would agree.

Overall I definitely wouldn't agree. Against last years weak schedule, I would agree but i still wouldn't take him. I have said forever that Chad is a slightly above average QB whose limitations absolutely prevent him from winning meangingful games but whose willingness to work within those limitations allow him to look good next to bad competition.

The only reason CHad is "above average" is because the quality of QB'ing and opposing teams in the league is ****. Even if he was top 10 this year, I'd never want him as the QB of this team again. Never. I couldn't be happier that he's gone. No you are stuck with the nice guy who gets treated like a girl, who can't stay healthy or beat good teams but will never play bad enough to lose the job outright. I don't respect the guy and certianly don't respect his meek, yellow approach to the game of football. Good riddance..

[Aqua4ever04]

Clearly, the Broncos' 30th ranked defense versus Miami's 9th ranked defense did not factor into the equation at all (not to mention strength of schedule).

Did you think that maybe those extra 11 interceptions led to more scores against the Denver defense?

[Gainzo]

Chad Pennington - 67.4 % 3,653 yards, 19 TDs, 7 INTs, 7.7 YPA

Donovan McNabb - 60.4% 3,916 yards, 23 TDs, 11 INTs, 6.9 YPA (Chad was better)

Ben Roethlisberger - 59.9% 3,301 yards, 17 TDs, 15 INTs, 7.0 YPA (Chad was way better.)

Matt Ryan - 61.1%, 3,440 yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs, 7.9 YPA (Chad was better)

Eli Manning - 60.3%, 3,238 yards, 21 TDs, 10 INTs, 6.8 YPA (Chad was better)

Carson Palmer has done anything at all for two years.

Do these players have more potential and more physical skills than Chad? Yes, they do. But do they produce more than him? Absolutely not.

Chad was top 10 in the NFL in:

Completions (but not in attempts)

Completion % (#1)

Yards

Yards Per Attempt

Fewest INTs (Fewest amongst any starter)

To say he is not a top 10 quarterback just shows ignornace, nothing more.

Stats are awesome.

19th in attempts per game (pretty easy to have a good completion % when you attempt less passes the 18 other QB's per game)

11th in yards per game

11th in 1st downs per game

14th in 20+ yard completions

[JohnnyHector]

Didn't you say we were talking about individual performances and not the performances of the team? Our leading receiver had 800 yards. We didn't have a 1000 yard rusher. Our entire interior offensive line was depleted by injuries (Smiley and Thomas lost for the year while Satele played through an injury all year and sucked doing it.)

Chad carried our offense last year.

And if you think that Flacco, Schaub and Ryan were better quarterbacks last year, you're just not using your head but rather bias.

Matt Ryan had the league's top rusher. Joe Flacco had the league's #2 defense and Matt Schaub had the AFC's best receiver.

Chad did way more than those guys with way less.

Are you slow or something? In my list of 12 QB's who are clearly better than Chad Pennington, I did not include Schaub, Flacco, or Ryan:

Better than Pennington last season:

Brees

Warner

Cutler

P. Manning

Rivers

Rodgers

McNabb

Romo

Better than Pennington in general:

Brady

Roethlisberger

E. Manning

Palmer

Any team in the league would rather have behind center than Pennington this year:

Ryan

Schaub

I'll even leave Flacco off the last list, because there are some chicken**** teams out there who would rather have Chad's gutless style of play than a kid who is still green.

[ZachEY]

How many teams in NFL history have turned the ball over just 13 times? I think Chad MAY have had something to do with that. Cutler and his 25 TDs are good, but his 18 INTs are a HUGE reason why the Broncos missed the playoffs and the Dolphins did not.

And was the personal attack really neccessary? Are you that unsatisfied with yourself?

Yes, Chad doesn't turn the ball over much... but he doesn't score much either. That's great if your defense plays well. But doesn't do much if you actually need to score points to win.

As to the personal attack, you'll note the ';)', also, you're right. I am wholly inadequate and do not like myself at all. I need to get back to my therapist.

[JohnnyHector]

Did you think that maybe those extra 11 interceptions led to more scores against the Denver defense?

Even if all 11 INT's resulted in TD drives for the other team, it would only make up a little more than half of the 131 point differential in points allowed.

Man, you're even more obtuse than crashingjet.

[ZachEY]

Even if all 11 INT's resulted in TD drives for the other team, it would only make up a little more than half of the 131 point differential in points allowed.

Man, you're even more obtuse than crashingjet.

What he doesn't get is that we all hated chad long before he was a dolphin. He's simply outclassed in this debate. Not his fault, he's just fighting an unwinnable battle.

[DoubleDown]

Yay, another Chad debate.

Does Sanchez lack the arm strength to play in the Meadlowlands?

Obviously, it is too early to tell. Going off scouting reports and highlights I have seen, Sanchez appears to have adequate arm strength and puts a very tight spin on his spirals. This is a key attribute often overlooked, but it is a big factor when throwing in a windy stadium.

[Gainzo]

What he doesn't get is that we all hated chad long before he was a dolphin. He's simply outclassed in this debate. Not his fault, he's just fighting an unwinnable battle.

He sounds like the small % of Jets fans (cough, ecurb, cough) that would defend Chad to the death.

This simple link http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PennCh01_playoffs.htm shows how Chad does when he makes the playoffs. It's not pretty

[JohnnyHector]

What he doesn't get is that we all hated chad long before he was a dolphin. He's simply outclassed in this debate. Not his fault, he's just fighting an unwinnable battle.

I remember back to when I was a minority in this argument at the games, at work, watching at the bar... I was even accused of not being a real fan.

[ZachEY]

He sounds like the small % of Jets fans (cough, ecurb, cough) that would defend Chad to the death.

This simple link http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PennCh01_playoffs.htm shows how Chad does when he makes the playoffs. It's not pretty

The guys who were anti-Chad for a while now are neither surprised by his regular season performance, or his playoff performance. And confidentally sit back waiting for the great schadenfreude that is coming as the other shoe drops this season when he's forced to play a real schedule.

Then, all we'll here is, 'Well, it was going to be Henne's team sooner or later, and Chad served his purpose'... blah, blah, blah...

[ZachEY]

I remember back to when I was a minority in this argument at the games, at work, watching at the bar... I was even accused of not being a real fan.

I remember when I first joined the other site, sometime in 05, there were only a handful of people who 'got it'. That number's grown quite a bit these days.

[Vicious89x]

I remember back to when I was a minority in this argument at the games, at work, watching at the bar... I was even accused of not being a real fan.

But his passing % is incredible!!!

[JohnnyHector]

I remember when I first joined the other site, sometime in 05, there were only a handful of people who 'got it'. That number's grown quite a bit these days.

This guy just stopped by my cube to ask me something and reminded me how much I wanted to punch him in his face every time he said that Pennington was a "smart QB" and when he lamented dumping him in the wake of his limited "success" in Miami last year.

[JohnnyHector]

But his passing % is incredible!!!

Not that I'm checking you out, but I can't read your posts without being blinded by that gigantic red spot in your picture. Did you get chopped by Ric Flair right before posing for that shot?

[KSJets]

What's funny about this is that when Chad was on the Jets', both Pats and Dolphins' fans were all making fun of the Jets because of their "noodle-armed" qb. Now that he's on the Dolphins, those fans seem to have changed their tune.

Winning more than one game in a season will do that to a fan-base I guess

[Aqua4ever04]

He sounds like the small % of Jets fans (cough, ecurb, cough) that would defend Chad to the death.

This simple link http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PennCh01_playoffs.htm shows how Chad does when he makes the playoffs. It's not pretty

Except that I'm defending him for one season where he finished 2nd in the MVP balloting. I'm not standing up for his injury history or past seasons, just the one time when he was the 2nd most valuable player in the league.

So I win.

[PS17]

The guys who were anti-Chad for a while now are neither surprised by his regular season performance, or his playoff performance. And confidentally sit back waiting for the great schadenfreude that is coming as the other shoe drops this season when he's forced to play a real schedule.

Then, all we'll here is, 'Well, it was going to be Henne's team sooner or later, and Chad served his purpose'... blah, blah, blah...

This post is 114% spot on. Nice, EY!!

[Gainzo]

Except that I'm defending him for one season where he finished 2nd in the MVP balloting. I'm not standing up for his injury history or past seasons, just the one time when he was the 2nd most valuable player in the league.

So I win.

Can you please tell me who votes for the MVP award and what that has to do with on the field performance? Thanks.

[ZachEY]

Except that I'm defending him for one season where he finished 2nd in the MVP balloting. I'm not standing up for his injury history or past seasons, just the one time when he was the 2nd most valuable player in the league.

So I win.

That's an equally embarrassing argument...

Peyton Manning, Colts....................32

Chad Pennington, Dolphins...............4

Michael Turner, Falcons....................4

John McCain finished second in last year's presidental election too.

[Gainzo]

That's an equally embarrassing argument...

Peyton Manning, Colts....................32

Chad Pennington, Dolphins...............4

Michael Turner, Falcons....................4

John McCain finished second in last year's presidental election too.

Last year was probably the weakest field for MVP candidates in over a decade.

Peyton had a decent season but nothing special and he ran away with the 1st place votes.

[Sperm Edwards]

RB's and WR's: 1800+ rushing yards (10th in NFL)

RB's and WR's: 17 rushing TD's (9th in NFL)

Dumpoff passes to Cobbs going for 80 and 50-yard TD's in the same game.

FG kicker Carpenter only missed 4 FG's all season.

Defense intercepted 18 passes (8th in NFL), caused 27 fumbles (7th in NFL) and recovered 10 of them (10th in NFL), clearly giving the offense the ball back to the offense more than most others.

All that plus that joke schedule, and the Dolphins still finished a lowly 21st in scoring.

You can dress it up with all the stats in the world, but in the end the answer is the same as always: Chad Pennington does not put points on the board.

[dbatesman]

I don't see how an average player was 2nd in the MVP voting.

Well, if a bunch of sportswriters said it, it must be true!

[Gainzo]

RB's and WR's: 1800+ rushing yards (10th in NFL)

RB's and WR's: 17 rushing TD's (9th in NFL)

Dumpoff passes to Cobbs going for 80 and 50-yard TD's in the same game.

FG kicker Carpenter only missed 4 FG's all season.

Defense intercepted 18 passes (8th in NFL), caused 27 fumbles (7th in NFL) and recovered 10 of them (10th in NFL), clearly giving the offense the ball back to the offense more than most others.

All that plus that joke schedule, and the Dolphins still finished a lowly 21st in scoring.

You can dress it up with all the stats in the world, but in the end the answer is the same as always: Chad Pennington does not put points on the board.

In the arse kicking the Dolphins gave the Pats early last year when they unveiled the wildcat Ronnie Brown had 4 rushing TDs. In the other 15 games they had 13.

Chad went 17-20 for 226 yards but didn't throw a TD or INT. Ronnie Brown threw a TD pass.

I think Aqua knows what happened the next time the Pats met the Dolphins and their gimmicky offense.

[ZachEY]

In the arse kicking the Dolphins gave the Pats early last year when they unveiled the wildcat Ronnie Brown had 4 rushing TDs. In the other 15 games they had 13.

Chad went 17-20 for 226 yards but didn't throw a TD or INT. Ronnie Brown threw a TD pass.

I think Aqua knows what happened the next time the Pats met the Dolphins and their gimmicky offense.

It's so nice when rivals can come together for the common good.

Lets hug.

[Gainzo]

It's so nice when rivals can come together for the common good.

Lets hug.

We all have a common cause. That cause is all about the Dolphins fans. As much as Pats fans (myself included) must piss off the Jets fanbase nothing is worse than Dolphins "fans."

Do any of those douchebags live in Florida? I thing Aqua lives in Washington State. You know, 3000 miles from Miami.