Best fans? Jets or Pats?

[Garb]

I've been to every home game since 1990 and I disagree w/ your assessment.

I am just telling you what happened at that game in 2000, I'm sure things are different since you started winning and people began to care about the Pats again but that game that is what happened.

Whatever dude.....you were probably sh*t-faced. Typical, really.

[newjakecity]

Sorry, but I don't see how any set of fans can be considered better when attendance was so bad that the team nearly re-located to St Louis in the early 90s. Its easy to attend and be more "into the games" when your team has relative success. But it was harder to find a Pats* fan in 1992 then it was to find a former mobster in the witeness reloaction program.

This isn't to say Jet fans are the greatest or don't have their problems (arriving late due to tailgating, not making noise for the defense unless things are perfect, the woe is me attitude displayed at times, etc). But the Jets have never been in consideration to move outside of the tri-state area due to attendance issues.

[nyjunc]

Whatever dude.....you were probably sh*t-faced. Typical, really.

Actually I don't drink much at all and never at games though 90% of the people around me seemed to have been plastered.

[SouthernJet]

Here's my two cents:

Generally speaking, Pats fans are more into the game.

Jets fans are more into the tailgating.

At least that has been my experience.

Jets fans give good party though. I'll give you that.

patriots reign disagrees with your assesment

[Garb]

patriots reign disagrees with your assesment

Where does PR live again? I rest my case.

[SouthernJet]

I've been to every home game since 1990 and I disagree w/ your assessment.

I am just telling you what happened at that game in 2000, I'm sure things are different since you started winning and people began to care about the Pats again but that game that is what happened.

and I think thats the point of thread..

Youngun pats fans (only here since winning ways) and older bandwagon jumpers of pats kind of dont count..

This is mainly for those who were around for bad pats runs..

Some of the data implies Jets had better attendance than pats during respective dry runs

[SouthernJet]

Actually I don't drink much at all and never at games though 90% of the people around me seemed to have been plastered.

nyjunc and I prefer the ganja

[Gainzo]

Sorry, but I don't see how any set of fans can be considered better when attendance was so bad that the team nearly re-located to St Louis in the early 90s. Its easy to attend and be more "into the games" when your team has relative success. But it was harder to find a Pats* fan in 1992 then it was to find a former mobster in the witeness reloaction program.

This isn't to say Jet fans are the greatest or don't have their problems (arriving late due to tailgating, not making noise for the defense unless things are perfect, the woe is me attitude displayed at times, etc). But the Jets have never been in consideration to move outside of the tri-state area due to attendance issues.

The decision to try and move had nothing to do with poor attendance.

1). New ownership in 1988. Victor Kiam openly stated he wanted to move the team when he became owner.

2). Terrible stadium deal. Kiam didn't own the Stadium.

No wonder the attendance was crap from 1988-1990. You had an owner who wanted to move and the team itself was complete and utter garbage.

Would you buy season tickets for that crap?

As I stated earlier in this thread, the place has been sold out since Kraft purchased the team and provided stable ownership.

[SouthernJet]

Where does PR live again? I rest my case.

so a true fan is only one who lives in city where team plays?????

Well at least we know what fan base is most elitist now

[NFLs StepChild]

The decision to try and move had nothing to do with poor attendance.

1). New ownership in 1988. Victor Kiam openly stated he wanted to move the team when he became owner.

2). Terrible stadium deal. Kiam didn't own the Stadium.

No wonder the attendance was crap from 1988-1990. You had an owner who wanted to move and the team itself was complete and utter garbage.

Would you buy season tickets for that crap?

As I stated earlier in this thread, the place has been sold out since Kraft purchased the team and provided stable ownership.

Was this a make excuses thread or a discussion on who is the better fanbase? I forget.

[Garb]

so a true fan is only one who lives in city where team plays?????

Well at least we know what fan base is most elitist now

Incorrect, Mr. Instigator. What I mean is how could he be a good source of information on crowd behavior when he does not go to that many games? Like you - when is the last time you have been to a game? Have you ever been to a Patriots game in Foxboro? Therefore you can't be a good source of information regarding fan behavior at games. That's what I am talking about. I've been to plenty. My game day observation is that Jets fans drink more and that Pats fans are more likely to see a kick-off. Shoot me for telling you what I have seen.

[PatriotReign37]

Sorry, but I don't see how any set of fans can be considered better when attendance was so bad that the team nearly re-located to St Louis in the early 90s. Its easy to attend and be more "into the games" when your team has relative success. But it was harder to find a Pats* fan in 1992 then it was to find a former mobster in the witeness reloaction program.

Wrong.

Parcells was HC and building a SB team. WTF would the fans stay away?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orthwein

He (Orthwein) purchased the New England Patriots from Victor Kiam, when the latter was facing bankruptcy and owed him millions. During his ownership Orthwein hired Bill Parcells as head coach, who helped returned the moribund franchise back to respectability. He reportedly planned on relocating the Patriots franchise to St. Louis. The move never came to pass when Robert Kraft took ownership in 1994

They werent moving because of poor attendance, they were moving because James Orthwein was the owner and Orthwein was from St Louis. He was born into the Anheuser Busch family who own the city of STL. They had no NFL team but wanted in on the card game.

[PatriotReign37]

patriots reign disagrees with your assesment

Whats this?

This isn't to say Jet fans are the greatest or don't have their problems (arriving late due to tailgating, not making noise for the defense unless things are perfect, the woe is me attitude displayed at times, etc).

[PatriotReign37]

so a true fan is only one who lives in city where team plays?????

I thought I wasnt a true fan?

[SouthernJet]

Incorrect, Mr. Instigator. What I mean is how could he be a good source of information on crowd behavior when he does not go to that many games? Like you - when is the last time you have been to a game? Have you ever been to a Patriots game in Foxboro? Therefore you can't be a good source of information regarding fan behavior at games. That's what I am talking about. I've been to plenty. My game day observation is that Jets fans drink more and that Pats fans are more likely to see a kick-off. Shoot me for telling you what I have seen.

depends on time frame ,,

I have been to Pats games in early 60s..and Jets games form 1964 through 1983..

So I can voice opinion based on longetivity thru those times,,BUT, best fans IS NOT just related to ayttendance at games...IS IT??????

Much of it is the average fan who just follows team but doesnt go to games..

That rationale says there are only 80K fans of each team that counts..

[SouthernJet]

I thought I wasnt a true fan?

I think Garb is implying that.....

[newjakecity]

Wrong.

Parcells was HC and building a SB team. WTF would the fans stay away?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orthwein

He (Orthwein) purchased the New England Patriots from Victor Kiam, when the latter was facing bankruptcy and owed him millions. During his ownership Orthwein hired Bill Parcells as head coach, who helped returned the moribund franchise back to respectability. He reportedly planned on relocating the Patriots franchise to St. Louis. The move never came to pass when Robert Kraft took ownership in 1994

They werent moving because of poor attendance, they were moving because James Orthwein was the owner and Orthwein was from St Louis. He was born into the Anheuser Busch family who own the city of STL. They had no NFL team but wanted in on the card game.

Wrong? Parcells didn't even join the team till 93. How was the attendance before then?

[newjakecity]

The decision to try and move had nothing to do with poor attendance.

1). New ownership in 1988. Victor Kiam openly stated he wanted to move the team when he became owner.

2). Terrible stadium deal. Kiam didn't own the Stadium.

No wonder the attendance was crap from 1988-1990. You had an owner who wanted to move and the team itself was complete and utter garbage.

Would you buy season tickets for that crap?

As I stated earlier in this thread, the place has been sold out since Kraft purchased the team and provided stable ownership.

For the entire Jets existence, they haven't owned their own stadium. The stadium that opens in 2010 will be the first time. Outside of that, they have basically been second class citizens in the stadium they played in (first with the Mets, then with the Giants).

In terms of terrible teams, we had to put up with teams that when they weren't terrible (like the Kotite years) basically teased the fans until an epic collapse occurred (last year just being the latest example).

In terms of championship droughts, the Jets have the longest of any of the nine pro sports franchises (not including MLS soccer or WNBA basketball). This includes the other NFL team that won three super bowls in a 21 year span.

This doesn't even include the way we are constantly treated as second class citizens (and I speak of the fans, not the team) by the media and other supposedly "neutral" outlets. Newsday has two good writers for the Jets that get "promoted" to more glamorous jobs (Tom Rock to the Giants, Erik Boland to the Yankees) while the crappy writers that play into Jets fans paranoia (Rich Cimini being the prime example) stick around despite promises to leave. Why? Because Jet fans are low lives in the minds of these people.

Despite this, we as Jet fans stay strong. Maybe ownership is the reason the team threatened to move, but saying a crappy team that didn't own their own stadium as being an excuse for blackouts (not to mention the scarcity of Pats fans in the New England area before 1993) is a joke. And listen I can tell you were a loyal fan from back then and you deserve props for that. But doesn't it bother you that the Johnny come lately Pats* fans jumped on board when the coast was clear? Again I will state that Jet fans are not perfect (the late arrivals is embarrassing to say the least). But there is no way that as a group that Pats fans are better than Jets fans.

[SouthernJet]

Wrong? Parcells didn't even join the team till 93. How was the attendance before then?

doesnt matter,,point of thread is attendance and fan loyality/following should be fairly consistent regardless of team record, who coaches etc...

fans shouldnt just show up when team is winning

[Gainzo]

For the entire Jets existence, they haven't owned their own stadium. The stadium that opens in 2010 will be the first time. Outside of that, they have basically been second class citizens in the stadium they played in (first with the Mets, then with the Giants).

In terms of terrible teams, we had to put up with teams that when they weren't terrible (like the Kotite years) basically teased the fans until an epic collapse occurred (last year just being the latest example).

In terms of championship droughts, the Jets have the longest of any of the nine pro sports franchises (not including MLS soccer or WNBA basketball). This includes the other NFL team that won three super bowls in a 21 year span.

This doesn't even include the way we are constantly treated as second class citizens (and I speak of the fans, not the team) by the media and other supposedly "neutral" outlets. Newsday has two good writers for the Jets that get "promoted" to more glamorous jobs (Tom Rock to the Giants, Erik Boland to the Yankees) while the crappy writers that play into Jets fans paranoia (Rich Cimini being the prime example) stick around despite promises to leave. Why? Because Jet fans are low lives in the minds of these people.

Despite this, we as Jet fans stay strong. Maybe ownership is the reason the team threatened to move, but saying a crappy team that didn't own their own stadium as being an excuse for blackouts (not to mention the scarcity of Pats fans in the New England area before 1993) is a joke. And listen I can tell you were a loyal fan from back then and you deserve props for that. But doesn't it bother you that the Johnny come lately Pats* fans jumped on board when the coast was clear? Again I will state that Jet fans are not perfect (the late arrivals is embarrassing to say the least). But there is no way that as a group that Pats fans are better than Jets fans.

Kiam and then Orthwein had to pay rent and didn't get any of the concession or parking revenues when they were owners. That was why both of them wanted to move the franchise.

I understand your point about being a tenant at the Meadowlands but I'm sure the Jets made money each home game.

I can't comment on anything before 1986 as I lived in Australia. I became a Pats fan the moment we moved to Massachusetts and became a season ticket holder in 1992 when I was finishing up my sophomore year of College.

I figured it may be the last year the Pats were still in New England so I bought the tix. Plus it was cheap ($540 total for two tix).

The bandwagon fans don't bother that much. Only the vocal ones who know next to nothing about the team. Every successful team has bandwagon fans.

[PatriotReign37]

Wrong? Parcells didn't even join the team till 93. How was the attendance before then?

Orthwein wasnt moving the team until the end of the 1993 season. After hiring Parcells and drafting a franchise QB in Bledsoe.

You implied that NE was moving due to poor attendance which is dead wrong.

[newjakecity]

Orthwein wasnt moving the team until the end of the 1993 season. After hiring Parcells and drafting a franchise QB in Bledsoe.

You implied that NE was moving due to poor attendance which is dead wrong.

I'm not sure why I'm arguing with you but:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/nengalnd/patriots.html

1992: The Patriots stumbled out of the gate losing their first 9 games as rumors of a move to St. Louis began to fly when St. Louis businessman James Orthwein had bought out his partners to become sole owner of the franchise. The Pats would finally get their first win of the season in Indianapolis against the Colts with a 37-34 win in overtimes. A week later the Pats would get their 2nd win of the season at home against the New York Jets. However, the Pats would lose their next 2 by a combined 40-0 score, and would go on to close out the season on a 5-game losing streak to finish with a league worse 2-14 record.

[Gainzo]

I'm not sure why I'm arguing with you but:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/nengalnd/patriots.html

1992: The Patriots stumbled out of the gate losing their first 9 games as rumors of a move to St. Louis began to fly when St. Louis businessman James Orthwein had bought out his partners to become sole owner of the franchise. The Pats would finally get their first win of the season in Indianapolis against the Colts with a 37-34 win in overtimes. A week later the Pats would get their 2nd win of the season at home against the New York Jets. However, the Pats would lose their next 2 by a combined 40-0 score, and would go on to close out the season on a 5-game losing streak to finish with a league worse 2-14 record.

Don't bother with PatriotReign37.

I remember that Colts win. Scott Zolak was on fire that day.

I don't remember much about the following week as my entire section was hammered before, during, and after the Jets game!

[PatriotReign37]

I'm not sure why I'm arguing with you but:

[MasonJet]

Pats fans are a bunch of bandwagon jumping ass clowns.

Next question.

[Gainzo]

Pats fans are a bunch of bandwagon jumping ass clowns.

That pay the highest ticket prices in the NFL and still sellout the Stadium. Thank goodness we don't have PSL's.

[MasonJet]

That pay the highest ticket prices in the NFL and still sellout the Stadium. Thank goodness we don't have PSL's.

And? How does that not prove you guys are bandwagon jumping ass clowns? We'll see if you still sell out if Brady's knee gives out again and Mumbles the Cheater retires.

The Jets have been selling out games for a very long time now, and considering our lack of success I don't see how you can compare the two. I'm not saying every Pats fan is a bandwagon jumping ass clown, just most of them.

[Gainzo]

And? How does that not prove you guys are bandwagon jumping ass clowns? We'll see if you still sell out if Brady's knee gives out again and Mumbles the Cheater retires.

The Jets have been selling out games for a very long time now, and considering our lack of success I don't see how you can compare the two. I'm not saying every Pats fan is a bandwagon jumping ass clown, just most of them.

Since the Pats have been selling out every game since 1993 I'm pretty confident they will continue to sellout long after Brady and Belichick are gone.

Prior to 1996 the Pats had been to one Super Bowl and got their arses kicked. At least the Jets had won one prior to that.

[PFSIKH]

I'm not sure why I'm arguing with you but:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/nengalnd/patriots.html

1992: The Patriots stumbled out of the gate losing their first 9 games as rumors of a move to St. Louis began to fly when St. Louis businessman James Orthwein had bought out his partners to become sole owner of the franchise. The Pats would finally get their first win of the season in Indianapolis against the Colts with a 37-34 win in overtimes. A week later the Pats would get their 2nd win of the season at home against the New York Jets. However, the Pats would lose their next 2 by a combined 40-0 score, and would go on to close out the season on a 5-game losing streak to finish with a league worse 2-14 record.

The rumors were just that rumors.

When Orthwein purchased the Patriots, part of the agreement was he could not move the team out of New England. "We have an agreement with the present owner {James B. Orthwein} that the team does not move out of New England," said Tagliabue, "and if he sells the franchise, that clause will be part of the contract with the next owner." Plus, Kraft held a lease on Foxboro stadium that ran through 2002 when Orthwein bought the team. No NFL team has moved with time remaining on the lease.

It is speculated that Orthwein 'bought' the Patriots as a way to gain favor with the NFL to strengthen his St. Louis expansion bid. His group was one of the favorites for the two bids. For reasons that are unknown, Orthwein pulled out of his ownership group on the eve of the announcement. The next day Charlotte received a bid and the NFL postponed the second team's announcement 30 days when Jacksonville received it.

Now, when Kiam was losing control of his ownership stake in the Patriots, Fran Murray attempted to buy majority interest in the Patriots with the intent to move the Patriots to St. Louis or Hartford. The NFL had some agreement if an owner could not be found that was willing to pay $90 million and keep the team in New England, the NFL would buy the team for $90 million from Kiam/Murray/debt collector's.

Murray sued the NFL, but the NFL never was going to lose the 6th biggest media market. It took 50 odd years for football to gain a foot hold in New England and they were not going to kill it by allowing the team to leave.

[Gainzo]

The rumors were just that rumors.

When Orthwein purchased the Patriots, part of the agreement was he could not move the team out of New England. "We have an agreement with the present owner {James B. Orthwein} that the team does not move out of New England," said Tagliabue, "and if he sells the franchise, that clause will be part of the contract with the next owner." Plus, Kraft held a lease on Foxboro stadium that ran through 2002 when Orthwein bought the team. No NFL team has moved with time remaining on the lease.

It is speculated that Orthwein 'bought' the Patriots as a way to gain favor with the NFL to strengthen his St. Louis expansion bid. His group was one of the favorites for the two bids. For reasons that are unknown, Orthwein pulled out of his ownership group on the eve of the announcement. The next day Charlotte received a bid and the NFL postponed the second team's announcement 30 days when Jacksonville received it.

Now, when Kiam was losing control of his ownership stake in the Patriots, Fran Murray attempted to buy majority interest in the Patriots with the intent to move the Patriots to St. Louis or Hartford. The NFL had some agreement if an owner could not be found that was willing to pay $90 million and keep the team in New England, the NFL would buy the team for $90 million from Kiam/Murray/debt collector's.

Murray sued the NFL, but the NFL never was going to lose the 6th biggest media market. It took 50 odd years for football to gain a foot hold in New England and they were not going to kill it by allowing the team to leave.

I forgot about that prick Fran Murray. 1988-1992 were awful years to be a Pats fan. The moving rumors were all over the place as soon as Kiam bought the team.

Kraft was crafty as he was buying land all around the Stadium when he owned the Stadium. He was just waiting for the right moment to buy the team.

[PFSIKH]

I forgot about that prick Fran Murray. 1988-1992 were awful years to be a Pats fan. The moving rumors were all over the place as soon as Kiam bought the team.

Kraft was crafty as he was buying land all around the Stadium when he owned the Stadium. He was just waiting for the right moment to buy the team.

I agree.

Dude is not dumb and a shrewd business man.

A big picture type guy. Considering he bought one of the least valuable NFL franchises (probably pro sports franchises) for a record price, they are 7 times worth what he bought them for (173 million versus 1.4 billion)..

[PatriotReign37]

I agree.

Dude is not dumb and a shrewd business man.

And, hes down to earth and a real nice guy. His son Jonathan too.

I met them both in AZ and first thing I did was thank them both for all theyve done.

[Pyper]

And, hes down to earth and a real nice guy. His son Jonathan too.

I met them both in AZ and first thing I did was thank them both for all theyve done.

Thanks for not sharing the details. I heard about that zipper malfunction down there and believe that kind of story belongs on a different type of website's message board.

[DrownTheJets]

What is this a joke, Jets fans easily. They're loyal for the most part. Half of the Patriots fan base are bandwagoners.

[Klecko73isGod]

Thanks for not sharing the details. I heard about that zipper malfunction down there and believe that kind of story belongs on a different type of website's message board.

Damn. PR37, when a fellow Pats fan and notorious troll bitchslaps you like this, it's time to take a long look in the mirror.