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JustInFudge

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I'd love for him to look at Chad under that same microscope..

oh boy..

Th eproblem w/ you guys is you interpret posts instead of reading. At no point did I ever say Chad has been a great QB throughout his career. I said he had the ONE great year in 2002.

Again, are you saying we had a big time O last year? Please make your case.

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are you saying we had a big time O last year?

I'm saying that if it was Chad at QB, and all the same stuff happenned, you'd be on here arguing about how great him and our offense was last year until he got hurt. There's really no question.

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Our offense was never that good last season.

It was so inconsistent it's unbelievable.

Favre padded his stats in some games (Most notably Arizona) and was average to woeful in others:

New England -First game

San Diego

Cincy

Oakland

Kansas City

Buffalo - First game (He wasn't awful but his late pick six nearly cost us what should have been a comfortable win)

Denver

San Francisco

Buffalo - Second game

Seattle

Miami - Second game

There's 11 games where Favre was pretty bad. Regardless of what you say Chan, he was not good last season or even close to it. Our running game was good, and that had much more of a factor in us being statistically a top offense than Favre IMO.

As for nyjunc, you're completely wrong about Penninington, he never produced in the big games against the best defenses. He's limited in what he can do.

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Our offense was never that good last season.

It was so inconsistent it's unbelievable.

Favre padded his stats in some games (Most notably Arizona) and was average to woeful in others:

New England -First game

San Diego

Cincy

Oakland

Kansas City

Buffalo - First game (He wasn't awful but his late pick six nearly cost us what should have been a comfortable win)

Denver

San Francisco

Buffalo - Second game

Seattle

Miami - Second game

There's 11 games where Favre was pretty bad. Regardless of what you say Chan, he was not good last season or even close to it. Our running game was good, and that had much more of a factor in us being statistically a top offense than Favre IMO.

As for nyjunc, you're completely wrong about Penninington, he never produced in the big games against the best defenses. He's limited in what he can do.

IJ sees your irrational Chad love and raises you 2x with Irrational Favre hate..

And ftr, I have never said our offense was great under Favre, my point was that nyjunc would be saying it was had Chad QB'd it.

Imo, it was certainly a good offense through 11 weeks, I'm nto sure how anyone could suggest otherwise. We were near the league lead in scoring, TOP and third down %'s up till then

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IJ sees your irrational Chad love and raises you 2x with Irrational Favre hate..

And ftr, I have never said our offense was great under Favre, my point was that nyjunc would be saying it was had Chad QB'd it.

Imo, it was certainly a good offense through 11 weeks, I'm nto sure how anyone could suggest otherwise. We were near the league lead in scoring, TOP and third down %'s up till then

I am honest, if our O performed the same way w/ Chad I'd say the same things. The thing is we dumped Chad for favre and we supposedly got better at QB yet we watched Chad take a less talented team to 2 more wins and a div title.

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I am honest, if our O performed the same way w/ Chad I'd say the same things. The thing is we dumped Chad for favre and we supposedly got better at QB yet we watched Chad take a less talented team to 2 more wins and a div title.

Sure you would.

And Chad's team was better coached, with a much better defense and much easier schedule..

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Sure you would.

And Chad's team was better coached, with a much better defense and much easier schedule..

we played the same teams outside of 2 teams- how did they have a much easier sched? We lost to Seattle, Oakland, Denver, SD, SF and they beat them.

When Chad was healthy w/ the same CS we had last year he led us to 10 wins and postseason but instead of a great running game he had Kevan Barlow and his under 3 YPC as his starting RB.

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I am honest, if our O performed the same way w/ Chad I'd say the same things. The thing is we dumped Chad for favre and we supposedly got better at QB yet we watched Chad take a less talented team to 2 more wins and a div title.

Just like we all seen Chad lead the Jets team to the playoffs just about every other year, we also had to watch him **** the bed during playoff games against elite D's that had a great game-plan for his lack of arm strength

In 2000 against the Raiders, we watched Chad Pennington struggle with 1 TD, 2 INT's, 183 yards, only 10 offensive points scored with a QB raiting of 44.9

In 2004, we watched him **** the bed against a great Steelers Defense during the playoffs..0 TD's, 1 INT, only 10 offensive points and yeah...We should have made those FG's but he still eneded up with a QB raiting of 65.5 (Which is pretty bad) with only 182 yards on 33 passing attempts.

In 2006 against the Patriots...We lost 37-16, 1 TD, 1 INT, 300 yards but we got dominated and his QB raiting of 79.2 isn't that good.

Just look @ what he did with the Dolhpins last year against the Ravens, a great D. Different team, same sad ending. 27-9, 1 TD-4 INT's, QB raiting of 53 (Sad).

I'm glad Pennington is gone and I'm glad we have a potential Franchise QB because if Pennington were still here...We would have never drafted Sanchez.

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we played the same teams outside of 2 teams- how did they have a much easier sched? We lost to Seattle, Oakland, Denver, SD, SF and they beat them.

Jets played 4 games on west coast went 0-4

Miami hosted 4 west coast teams at 1pm EST and went 4-0

Miami never played in the pacific time zone and faced 4 teams from the pacific time zone at 1pm in their building. Teams that did this were something like 1-18 last year as the essentally get up probably around 5 am body clock time to go to the game. There's a quote floating around here by a retired player saying these games are really tough on the west coast teams..

When Chad was healthy w/ the same CS we had last year he led us to 10 wins and postseason but instead of a great running game he had Kevan Barlow and his under 3 YPC as his starting RB.

Is this some kind fo comedy routine? I am on hidden camera or being punk'd?

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Just like we all seen Chad lead the Jets team to the playoffs just about every other year, we also had to watch him **** the bed during playoff games against elite D's that had a great game-plan for his lack of arm strength

In 2000 against the Raiders, we watched Chad Pennington struggle with 1 TD, 2 INT's, 183 yards, only 10 offensive points scored with a QB raiting of 44.9

In 2004, we watched him **** the bed against a great Steelers Defense during the playoffs..0 TD's, 1 INT, only 10 offensive points and yeah...We should have made those FG's but he still eneded up with a QB raiting of 65.5 (Which is pretty bad) with only 182 yards on 33 passing attempts.

In 2006 against the Patriots...We lost 37-16, 1 TD, 1 INT, 300 yards but we got dominated and his QB raiting of 79.2 isn't that good.

Just look @ what he did with the Dolhpins last year against the Ravens, a great D. Different team, same sad ending. 27-9, 1 TD-4 INT's, QB raiting of 53 (Sad).

I'm glad Pennington is gone and I'm glad we have a potential Franchise QB because if Pennington were still here...We would have never drafted Sanchez.

step bacl away from the Chad hate and look evaluate it objectively. The only playoff game he was awful in for us was at Oakland. he wasn't good against NE and Pitt but he wasn't awful either like he was last year or in '02.

even if you think he was awful in those 3 games, he was also very good in the othr 2 so that means of his 5 playoff games w/ us that he was very good 2 of them(40%).

It's sad how Jet fans treat the man and mark better be ready b/c it will be him at some point too. Our fans would bash Brady if we had him.

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step bacl away from the Chad hate and look evaluate it objectively. The only playoff game he was awful in for us was at Oakland. he wasn't good against NE and Pitt but he wasn't awful either like he was last year or in '02.

even if you think he was awful in those 3 games, he was also very good in the othr 2 so that means of his 5 playoff games w/ us that he was very good 2 of them(40%).

It's sad how Jet fans treat the man and mark better be ready b/c it will be him at some point too. Our fans would bash Brady if we had him.

:rl:

Comedy gold!

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step bacl away from the Chad hate and look evaluate it objectively. The only playoff game he was awful in for us was at Oakland. he wasn't good against NE and Pitt but he wasn't awful either like he was last year or in '02.

even if you think he was awful in those 3 games, he was also very good in the othr 2 so that means of his 5 playoff games w/ us that he was very good 2 of them(40%).

It's sad how Jet fans treat the man and mark better be ready b/c it will be him at some point too. Our fans would bash Brady if we had him.

Yet your bashing Peyton Manning.

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Jets played 4 games on west coast went 0-4

Miami hosted 4 west coast teams at 1pm EST and went 4-0

Miami never played in the pacific time zone and faced 4 teams from the pacific time zone at 1pm in their building. Teams that did this were something like 1-18 last year as the essentally get up probably around 5 am body clock time to go to the game. There's a quote floating around here by a retired player saying these games are really tough on the west coast teams..

Is this some kind fo comedy routine? I am on hidden camera or being punk'd?

we played the same bad teams, Miami beat them and we lost to them(plus they played Denver at Den and we playe dthem at home)

Oak 2008 at home:

won ONE home game besides the Jet game, other EC teams went 3-0 at Oakland.

SF 2008 at home:

2-2 against EC teams

Seattle 2008 at home:

had one other win at home(beat SL) in 2008. other EC teams went 3-0 against them.

These were awful teams in easy buildings to win and we couldn't do it. We also had the advantage of playing Ari at home(terrible road team, great home team) wbile they played them on the road and we played den at home while they played them on the road. They also played Hou and Baltimore while we played Ten and Cincy- I think our 2 games were easier.

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IJ sees your irrational Chad love and raises you 2x with Irrational Favre hate..

And ftr, I have never said our offense was great under Favre, my point was that nyjunc would be saying it was had Chad QB'd it.

Imo, it was certainly a good offense through 11 weeks, I'm nto sure how anyone could suggest otherwise. We were near the league lead in scoring, TOP and third down %'s up till then

How is that irrational?

If our offense was "good" last season as you say, it wasn't because of Favre. Are you honestly going to tell me that he was good in those 11 games? 11 games is quite a chunk of the season. The running game was the strength of this offense, Favre's erratic and eventually hopeless play held it back.

Favre was never good, he flashed brilliance but that was the height of it.

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Yet your bashing Peyton Manning.

Manning is held to a different standard than Chad, right? manning has squandered opportuntiies every year to win. Brady has won 3 Championships and been in 4 SBs which is 2 more titles and 3 more SB apps than peyton despite starting for 4 less seasons.

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step bacl away from the Chad hate and look evaluate it objectively. The only playoff game he was awful in for us was at Oakland. he wasn't good against NE and Pitt but he wasn't awful either like he was last year or in '02.

even if you think he was awful in those 3 games, he was also very good in the othr 2 so that means of his 5 playoff games w/ us that he was very good 2 of them(40%).

It's sad how Jet fans treat the man and mark better be ready b/c it will be him at some point too. Our fans would bash Brady if we had him.

I was actually a die hard supporter of Chad Pennington, I never wanted to see him leave the Jets and I hated the idea of Kellen Clemens because I was such a Pennington supporter but the fact of the matter is this...He cant compete against great D's with a great game plan ever since his two surgerys on his throwing arm.

Let the Dolphin fans suffer through 9-7, 10-6 playoff types of teams, only to get shut down during the playoffs

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I was actually a die hard supporter of Chad Pennington, I never wanted to see him leave the Jets and I hated the idea of Kellen Clemens because I was such a Pennington supporter but the fact of the matter is this...He cant compete against great D's with a great game plan ever since his two surgerys on his throwing arm.

Let the Dolphin fans suffer through 9-7, 10-6 playoff types of teams, only to get shut down during the playoffs

How many QBs would have success against that Baltimore D? Ten didn't the next week, Pitt didn't in the title game but Pitt's D shut down Bal's O and won that game.

I'd rather make the playoffs and lose than miss the playoffs.

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How many QBs would have success against that Baltimore D? Ten didn't the next week, Pitt didn't in the title game but Pitt's D shut down Bal's O and won that game.

I'd rather make the playoffs and lose than miss the playoffs.

5 Interceptions.

5!

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we played the same bad teams, Miami beat them and we lost to them(plus they played Denver at Den and we playe dthem at home)

Oak 2008 at home:

won ONE home game besides the Jet game, other EC teams went 3-0 at Oakland.

SF 2008 at home:

2-2 against EC teams

Seattle 2008 at home:

had one other win at home(beat SL) in 2008. other EC teams went 3-0 against them.

These were awful teams in easy buildings to win and we couldn't do it. We also had the advantage of playing Ari at home(terrible road team, great home team) wbile they played them on the road and we played den at home while they played them on the road. They also played Hou and Baltimore while we played Ten and Cincy- I think our 2 games were easier.

OMFG.. I can't take you seriously anymore. Sorry. I don't know if you're trying to be funny haha or funny annoying, but I refuse to beleive you are a serious person.

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Manning is held to a different standard than Chad, right? manning has squandered opportuntiies every year to win. Brady has won 3 Championships and been in 4 SBs which is 2 more titles and 3 more SB apps than peyton despite starting for 4 less seasons.

I guess Mark Rypien >>>> Dan Marino by your logic then.

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Favre is gone, Pennington has been long gone, and we just drafted one of the best QB talents of this years draft in Mark Sanchez, our potential future Franchise QB.

We have a Jets team full of nothing but young talent along with solid potential. The future is now, let the past be the past. Who cares about Chad? Who cares about Herm? Who cares about Vilma and Mangini? Not me.

QB-Sanchez (22)

RB-Leon (26)

RB-Greene (23)

LT-Ferguson (24)

C-Mangold (25)

TE-Keller (24)

WR-Cotchery (27)

Thats an offense full of young talent. Throw in veterans like Richardson (FB), Moore (RG), Faneca (LG), Woody (RT), Jones (RB)

And you have an Offense ready to compete here in 09 along with many of years to come with players like Revis, Rhodes, Gholston, Leonhard, Harris and Lowery to build a Defense around (All 26 years of age or younger) Throw in veterans like Pace (OLB), Scott (MLB), Thomas (OLB), Jenkins (NT), Ellis (DE) and Sheppard (CB) and you have a solid Defense led by Rex Ryan thats ready to compete.

Forget Pennington...He's done with the Jets and will be ran out of the league in less that 3 or 4 years.

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I forgot to mention that:

Brad Johnson >>>> Jim Kelly

Titles are obvious not an indicator of overall talent.

I think comparing Marino and Manning is not a good comparison due to Marino playing a majority of his prime playing years in a league without a salary cap.

Manning has had to deal with the salary cap.

His team and more importantly the Bill Polian designed team was built to be an offensive juggernaut often at the expense of the defense. I do not really blame him seeing he plays indoor games at least 9x a year. He was trying to maximize Peyton's talent.

If that was the only reason for Peyton's or the Colts failing in the playoffs that would be one thing. I realize it is the playoffs and the comeption is tougher but in 7 of his 15 playoff game he has not hit even an 80. That is the mendoza line for QBs. Brady by comparison, often with less talent, has been 80 or above in 10 of 17 playoff games.

Peyton is obviously talented, but under performs when it matters most.

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5 Interceptions.

5!

it was 4.

OMFG.. I can't take you seriously anymore. Sorry. I don't know if you're trying to be funny haha or funny annoying, but I refuse to beleive you are a serious person.

funny? why b/c I am not making excuses for l;osing to the crappy teams we lost to? we played almost all the same teams w/ the exception of 2 and those 2 were tougher thant he 2we faced. The scheds were very even but you are making excuses for Brett and taking shots at Chad. When you can be somewhat objective let me know.

I guess Mark Rypien >>>> Dan Marino by your logic then.

Dan had SB caliber teams maybe once or twice in his carere and he made one SB losing to maybe the best team of all time. The differene btw Indy and NE this decade has been at QB, NE's QB plays big in January while Indy's QB plays small.

Titles are obvious not an indicator of overall talent.

I think comparing Marino and Manning is not a good comparison due to Marino playing a majority of his prime playing years in a league without a salary cap.

Manning has had to deal with the salary cap.

His team and more importantly the Bill Polian designed team was built to be an offensive juggernaut often at the expense of the defense. I do not really blame him seeing he plays indoor games at least 9x a year. He was trying to maximize Peyton's talent.

If that was the only reason for Peyton's or the Colts failing in the playoffs that would be one thing. I realize it is the playoffs and the comeption is tougher but in 7 of his 15 playoff game he has not hit even an 80. That is the mendoza line for QBs. Brady by comparison, often with less talent, has been 80 or above in 10 of 17 playoff games.

Peyton is obviously talented, but under performs when it matters most.

Not only has Peyton played w/ better talent around than Dan ever had but he has played in an era w/ much fewer big time teams.

Manning hasn't had to deal w/ the salary cap the Colts have b/c manning didn't give his team a break like Brady did and the Colts D's have been more than good enough to make multiple SBs- HE has held them back.

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I just got to thinking...besides for Harrison and Wayne...mind you Wayne is very similarly skilled to Cotchery who many claim doesn't have the upside of a #1...what top tier talent has Manning played with?

Saturday?

I want to say James, but he fell off a cliff after he left Manning and the Colts.

The oft-injured Dallas Clark?

It feels weird to say but I think Peyton Manning is really underrated sometimes. Manning is the Colts' offense, and it's been consistently top tier for like 10+ years now.

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I just got to thinking...besides for Harrison and Wayne...mind you Wayne is very similarly skilled to Cotchery who many claim doesn't have the upside of a #1...what top tier talent has Manning played with?

Saturday?

I want to say James, but he fell off a cliff after he left Manning and the Colts.

The oft-injured Dallas Clark?

It feels weird to say but I think Peyton Manning is really underrated sometimes. Manning is the Colts' offense, and it's been consistently top tier for like 10+ years now.

Seriously?

On what planet are you from? Peyton played like crap half the year. Padded his stats when the schedule got soft. And still wont he MVP going away.

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Seriously?

On what planet are you from? Peyton played like crap half the year. Padded his stats when the schedule got soft. And still wont he MVP going away.

True...that stretch where they played NE, Pitt, Houston, and San Diego was cake.

But I meant career wise. The guys the best pure passer of his generation, and yet whenever people compare him to someone else the talent that plays up BECAUSE OF HIM always gets thrown in his face.

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I just got to thinking...besides for Harrison and Wayne...mind you Wayne is very similarly skilled to Cotchery who many claim doesn't have the upside of a #1...what top tier talent has Manning played with?

Saturday?

I want to say James, but he fell off a cliff after he left Manning and the Colts.

The oft-injured Dallas Clark?

It feels weird to say but I think Peyton Manning is really underrated sometimes. Manning is the Colts' offense, and it's been consistently top tier for like 10+ years now.

I think people who credit the talent around Manning for his success have it reversed. Put peyton manning on those jets teams since 1998 and we'd have had plenty fo 12 win seasons. Coles would be the future HOF'er, martin would've had mad stats,etc..

That being said, the guys a huge choker and I don't even understand how it's debateable..

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I just got to thinking...besides for Harrison and Wayne...mind you Wayne is very similarly skilled to Cotchery who many claim doesn't have the upside of a #1...what top tier talent has Manning played with?

Saturday?

I want to say James, but he fell off a cliff after he left Manning and the Colts.

The oft-injured Dallas Clark?

It feels weird to say but I think Peyton Manning is really underrated sometimes. Manning is the Colts' offense, and it's been consistently top tier for like 10+ years now.

Edge in his prime was a great back. Tarik Glenn.

Those Colts offenses were stacked.

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Th eproblem w/ you guys is you interpret posts instead of reading. At no point did I ever say Chad has been a great QB throughout his career. I said he had the ONE great year in 2002.

Again, are you saying we had a big time O last year? Please make your case.

The issue is, you're excusing away the stats by giving little reasons why the play of the offense as a whole should be downplayed.

EVERY team in the NFL gets points out of their D and ST. EVERY team scores some garbage points. Knowing this going in, you can still say based on our ppg and yardage/game that we were doing well offensively.

You don't just manipulate the stats to make your argument, as you have been doing throughout this entire thread to make Chad look good.

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I think people who credit the talent around Manning for his success have it reversed. Put peyton manning on those jets teams since 1998 and we'd have had plenty fo 12 win seasons. Coles would be the future HOF'er, martin would've had mad stats,etc..

That being said, the guys a huge choker and I don't even understand how it's debateable..

Plenty of 12 win seasons and 1st rd exits.

Manning has certainly help make players better but he has played w/ superior talent since he came into the leage:

Faulk

Edge

Harrison

Wayne

Clark

Dilger

Pollard

Addai

He has had great OLs. He has had more than any QB besides maybe Kurt Warner but at least Warner has made 3 SBs w/ all the talent around him.

The issue is, you're excusing away the stats by giving little reasons why the play of the offense as a whole should be downplayed.

EVERY team in the NFL gets points out of their D and ST. EVERY team scores some garbage points. Knowing this going in, you can still say based on our ppg and yardage/game that we were doing well offensively.

You don't just manipulate the stats to make your argument, as you have been doing throughout this entire thread to make Chad look good.

Every team does get D or STs TDs now and then. I think he had 6 or 7 TDs from D and STs, that is not normal. Maybe 2-3 or so. We went years w/o defensive Tds or STs TDs.

IMO i really don't think Peyton is much of a choke artist. Well, i know he tends to bring his 'A' game when he plays my D most of the time, much like Brady does.

But he has had more than his share of playoff dud's.

He's only played you guys in postseason once and he certainly choked that game even w/ 2 of the biggest gifts a QB could ever ask for(the reversal on the Polamalu INT and the Bettis fumble and return near midfield).

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