Top 5 Qb's

[Aqua4ever04]

Your logic is seriously flawed. On one hand you want to argue how much of a team game it is then on the other you wanna throw stats out to support you.

Obviously you haven't watched Ben as much as alot here have. He does all the things that any of the other top QB's do, has all the tools, goes through progressions, has unbelievable pocket awareness and WINS. Great D's keep you in games. Great QB's WIN games. Something Chad knows very little about... Especially against better D's, yet Ben does this regularly against better D's....

There you go again using a TEAM stat to glorify an individual. Are you telling me that Big Ben won the SUper Bowl against the Seahawks with his awesome 130 performance? That's one of the dumber things I've ever heard that defenses don't win games. Tell that to the 2000 Ravens. Trent Dilfer was certainly the all-star of that team.

There are a lot of good quarterbacks that go through progessions, I'm exactly sure why you think that sets him apart from any one. There's one thing Ben does better than most and that's extends plays by averting sacks.

But other than that, he's an average quarterback. He's not terribly accurate, and makes a ton of bad decisions.

Once again, who said anything about Chad? Don't attack my logic when your's is seriosuly inept.

[PFSIKH]

Did you watch the 2006 postseason?

Did you?

The Colts won in spite of Peyton.

3 TDs and 7 INTs. That is your argument?

Edited July 6, 2009 by PFSIKH

[Aqua4ever04]

Did you?

The Colts in spite of Peyton.

3 TDs and 7 INTs. That is your argument?

Yeah but quarterbacks win the games, defenses just keep them in games.

Just ask StillerPaul.

[StillerPaul]

There you go again using a TEAM stat to glorify an individual. Are you telling me that Big Ben won the SUper Bowl against the Seahawks with his awesome 130 performance? That's one of the dumber things I've ever heard that defenses don't win games. Tell that to the 2000 Ravens. Trent Dilfer was certainly the all-star of that team.

There are a lot of good quarterbacks that go through progessions, I'm exactly sure why you think that sets him apart from any one. There's one thing Ben does better than most and that's extends plays by averting sacks.

But other than that, he's an average quarterback. He's not terribly accurate, and makes a ton of bad decisions.

Once again, who said anything about Chad? Don't attack my logic when your's is seriosuly inept.

We can agree to disagree then ??

This wreaks of the same BS some weeks back where you were telling me (And many others) how great Chad is. That's why i brought it up. Repetitive stuff, really.

I know this much, you'd take Ben in a heartbeat over ANY of your current QB's. Care to lie and tell me otherwise ??

[Aqua4ever04]

We can agree to disagree then ??

This wreaks of the same BS some weeks back where you were telling me (And many others) how great Chad is. That's why i brought it up. Repetitive stuff, really.

I know this much, you'd take Ben in a heartbeat over ANY of your current QB's. Care to lie and tell me otherwise ??

I don't think Ben is elite by any means. At this point in their career, I'd take Big Ben because he's younger. But Chad Pennington was twice as good as Roethlisberger was a year ago.

[JiF]

I really can't believe the love Ben Roethlisberger gets here; he was an average quarterback last year and rode the accomplishments of a historically great defense. He's not even in my top 10.

Here's mine:

1.) Peyton Manning - A pioneer of the position taking the reigns as both passer and on-field offensive coordinator. Hits his receivers in stride, knows how to avert pressure, reset and deliver a strike, and the most cerebral player in all of football. He will be the best of all time when he's done.

2.) Drew Brees - He does make some costly mistakes at times, but I think this is in an effort to compensate for an inconsistent running game. Great at timing the rhythm of his drop and stepping into his throw and driving into his receiver. Understands how to look off defensive backs as well as any one not named Peyton.

3.) Tom Brady - He would be #2, but I'm going to hold off because of the knee injury. He doesn't get sacked, makes all the short, intermediate and long throws and is a gym rat that always knows where the coverage will dictate the route tree. But, like Manning, he succumbs to pressure just as bad as any.

4.) Phillip Rivers - He was the highest rated passer last year and excells in accuracy. Not a monster arm, but spreads the ball just as well as any one. Great thrower on the move and extends plays in and outside of the pocket with the best of them.

5.) Aaron Rodgers - This is my surprise pick for you guys. He throws from all platforms, hits the anticipation routes like a seasoned vet, and does it with prestine accuracy. This is sort of a prediction pick, watch him blossom into the NFL's elite this year.

Aaron Rodgers is an interesting choice, but just like Matt Ryan to go there. It really takes a special player to be consistent. I'm not saying either of them arent special but I want them to prove it to me again before I put them in my top 5.

Dont get me wrong. I was very impressed with Aaron Rodgers. It really seemed like he did everything he could to help his team win. He showed tremendous potential. Probably had one of the toughest spots to come into replacing Favre and she showed poise and leadership. Very impressive. Just, do it again.

[Papageorgio268]

I don't think Ben is elite by any means. At this point in their career, I'd take Big Ben because he's younger. But Chad Pennington was twice as good as Roethlisberger was a year ago.

Seriously?

Chad was able to win those games last year due to stellar performances by Ronnie Brown and confusion created by the wildcat. If I knew that it would create that much confusion, then yes, Pennington, a good game manager, would suffice.

But if we're talking 2009, no way is he on the list. Teams will stop the wildcat (i.e. Baltimore in the Playoffs) and then Pennington will be exposed for the qb he really is; a weak armed cerebral QB, nowhere near top 5.

[Aqua4ever04]

Aaron Rodgers is an interesting choice, but just like Matt Ryan to go there. It really takes a special player to be consistent. I'm not saying either of them arent special but I want them to prove it to me again before I put them in my top 5.

Dont get me wrong. I was very impressed with Aaron Rodgers. It really seemed like he did everything he could to help his team win. He showed tremendous potential. Probably had one of the toughest spots to come into replacing Favre and she showed poise and leadership. Very impressive. Just, do it again.

Oh I'm with you there, man. I had a difficult time trying to decide my 5th guy so I decided to go out on a limb with a guy that I think is going to be a fantastic player. I mean Rodgers had DOUBLE Ryan's touchdowns and only two more picks.

ANd if you look at my post that is on page 6 or 7 talking about Ryan and his effectiveness relative to the efftiveness of the running game, that's something I'd like him to show me more of. The Packers running game was mediocre on numerous occasions a year ago but Rodgers still excelled.

I like the Packers to do damage this year. I think Rodgers asserts himself as elite and with Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Donald Lee and Jermichael Finley all in the mix; damn, that's a passing attack.

[Aqua4ever04]

Seriously?

Chad was able to win those games last year due to stellar performances by Ronnie Brown and confusion created by the wildcat. If I knew that it would create that much confusion, then yes, Pennington, a good game manager, would suffice.

But if we're talking 2009, no way is he on the list. Teams will stop the wildcat (i.e. Baltimore in the Playoffs) and then Pennington will be exposed for the qb he really is; a weak armed cerebral QB, nowhere near top 5.

It's really not that confusing. If Chad Pennington is out wide at receiver, chances are he's not throwing the ball. I don't see how this takes away from what he does as a traditional drop back thrower from traditional sets. He was the one the put us in situations to score points, not the Wildcat. It got shut down plenty of times and we still moved the ball and won games.

[CTM]

I don't think Ben is elite by any means. At this point in their career, I'd take Big Ben because he's younger. But Chad Pennington was twice as good as Roethlisberger was a year ago.

Ohh man. and you were doing so well in this thread.. Back to 1st grade you go..

[CTM]

It's really not that confusing. If Chad Pennington is out wide at receiver, chances are he's not throwing the ball. I don't see how this takes away from what he does as a traditional drop back thrower from traditional sets. He was the one the put us in situations to score points, not the Wildcat. It got shut down plenty of times and we still moved the ball and won games.

YEs, and you were like 21st in the league in scoring..

Did you even watch Pittsburgh last year? Chad would've been a dead barbie if he was behind that line, secondly, they actually played a pro schedule last year. The kind of schedule that 3 times running (03,05 and 07) has lead Chad to something like a 5-15 record.

Chad excels at letting other teams beat themselves, put him against a good team in which he'll need to make plays to win and he losses. Time and time again.

[Irish Jet]

Was this thread ever going to turn into anything but a Chad Pennington thread?

Add it to the collection.

[NFLs StepChild]

Here's my current QB rankings. Trying to take the teams and surrounding talent out of the equation as much as possible.

Best NFL Qbs (to lead teams and win games):

1-Manning

2-Brady

3-Ben

4-Rivers

5-Palmer

Hon Mention - Rodgers, Ryan

Best Fantasy QBs:

1-Brees

2-Brady

3-Warner

4-Manning

5-Romo

Hon. Mention

Rivers, Rodgers

Best QB Ratings:

1-Rivers

2-Pennington

3-Warner

4-Garrard

5-Garcia

Hon.Mention -Rodgers, Brees

Best QBs I'd want for the Playoffs or as a Clutch Performer:

1-Brady

2-Ben

3-Manning

4-Rivers

5-Matt Ryan (leap of faith there, but the kid is clutch and now has playoff exp, plus the other choices are weak.

Hon Mention - None. NFL has very few clutch QBs. Oh wait there is this new Mexicano...here's to hoping.

Edited July 7, 2009 by NFLs StepChild

[Aqua4ever04]

Ohh man. and you were doing so well in this thread.. Back to 1st grade you go..

Well you're teaching the class, right? Well then I did it intentionally just to be under your wing.

[Aqua4ever04]

Was this thread ever going to turn into anything but a Chad Pennington thread?

Add it to the collection.

Don't look at this guy; once again others brought it up to me. With that in mind, I'll just avoid the question posed by CTM.

[PFSIKH]

I don't think Ben is elite by any means. At this point in their career, I'd take Big Ben because he's younger. But Chad Pennington was twice as good as Roethlisberger was a year ago.

Phin fans.

Excluding Tom Brady from the discussion, Big Ben is the next QB I want QBing my team. He is a stud and is clutch.

[Aqua4ever04]

Phin fans.

Excluding Tom Brady from the discussion, Big Ben is the next QB I want QBing my team. He is a stud and is clutch.

So rather than taking Drew Brees and winning those games 28-13, you'd take Ben Roethlisberger so he can keep it close and win it 16-13 in the waning minutes?

Makes sense.

[StillerPaul]

Here's my current QB rankings. Trying to take the teams and surrounding talent out of the equation as much as possible.

Best NFL Qbs (to lead teams and win games):

1-Manning

2-Brady

3-Ben

4-Rivers

5-Palmer

Hon Mention - Rodgers, Ryan

Best Fantasy QBs:

1-Brees

2-Brady

3-Warner

4-Manning

5-Romo

Hon. Mention

Rivers, Rodgers

Best QB Ratings:

1-Rivers

2-Pennington

3-Warner

4-Garrard

5-Garcia

Hon.Mention -Rodgers, Brees

Best QBs I'd want for the Playoffs or as a Clutch Performer:

1-Brady

2-Ben

3-Manning

4-Rivers

5-Matt Ryan (leap of faith there, but the kid is clutch and now has playoff exp, plus the other choices are weak.

Hon Mention - None. NFL has very few clutch QBs. Oh wait there is this new Mexicano...here's to hoping.

Nice and well thought out list. Hard to argue any of your picks. Good job.

As for CP being twice the QB Ben was last year.... Oh boy how the hell do i even respond to that ?? Eh, better leave it go. lol

[StillerPaul]

BTW, even being a division rival of his, i fully expect Carson Palmer to at least get back to above average to good QB this year. Actually kinda hoping he and Ben can have some shootouts ala 2005. That was a fun season for me as i hate the clowns and ratbirds wayyyyyyy more than the bungles.

Also, i tried to bring this up in another post with no reaction, so i'll try again.......... lol

What would it be like had Brady or Manning played for the Steelers rather than their current systems and O-lines? And, would Ben be able to play at a high level in either of their systems ??

[Aqua4ever04]

Nice and well thought out list. Hard to argue any of your picks. Good job.

As for CP being twice the QB Ben was last year.... Oh boy how the hell do i even respond to that ?? Eh, better leave it go. lol

I just don't understand what's going on inside your head. Please, explain it to me. How is it THAT ridiculous? I could understand if MAYBE you thought Ben was SLIGHTLY superior, but to claim it isn't class is pure insanity and homerism.

I know stats don't always tell the story, but they're pretty indicitive of how much better Chad was last year.

Yards

Chad Pennington - 3,653

Ben Roethlisberger - 3,301

Touchdowns

Chad Pennington - 19

Ben Roethlisberger - 17

Interceptions

Chad Pennington - 9

Ben Roethlisberger - 15

Percentage

Chad Pennington - 67.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 59.9

Yards Per Attempt

Chad Pennington - 7.7

Ben Roethlisberger - 7.0

20+

Chad Pennington - 38

Ben Roethlisberger - 35

40+

Chad Pennington - 8

Ben Roethlisberger - 7

Rating

Chad Pennington - 97.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 80.1

I really don't get it. Where was he better? Because he took a few more hits? And yes, I did see the Steelers play a lot last year. But I also say Byron Leftwich come in and the Steelers offense didn't skip a beat. You guys win with defense and a quality running game. Ben put you in bad situations a lot and had to bail himself out in the final minutes.

And Chad had a lot of late game heroics himself. There was a streak of four consecutive games where we possessed the ball for 10+ minutes in the fourth quarter. You're not going to lose games doing that. This includes an 80 yard, 8 minute, 15 play drive against Denver at Mile High for a touchdown that gave us a 26-17 lead. It also included a 3rd and 17 conversion and a 3rd and 7 conversion down in the red zone. That's clutch.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Aqua4ever04

[StillerPaul]

Phin fans.

Excluding Tom Brady from the discussion, Big Ben is the next QB I want QBing my team. He is a stud and is clutch.

Appreciate that PF. With our teams history and whatnot, it's nice to see objectivity from a rival fan.

[Aqua4ever04]

BTW, even being a division rival of his, i fully expect Carson Palmer to at least get back to above average to good QB this year. Actually kinda hoping he and Ben can have some shootouts ala 2005. That was a fun season for me as i hate the clowns and ratbirds wayyyyyyy more than the bungles.

Also, i tried to bring this up in another post with no reaction, so i'll try again.......... lol

What would it be like had Brady or Manning played for the Steelers rather than their current systems and O-lines? And, would Ben be able to play at a high level in either of their systems ??

Carson Palmer is a very good player and I too expect him to return to an elte level.

As for the Brady, Manning thing. Each player would've had NO problem winning a championship last year (if Brady were healthy.) No question about it, Manning and Brady are all time greats and Ben isn't even an elite passer.

[Aqua4ever04]

Appreciate that PF. With our teams history and whatnot, it's nice to see objectivity from a rival fan.

It's not being objective. Look at his avatar, he's clearly biased. My opinion about Ben is objective because I could not give two ****s if the Steelers won or lost games (unless it someone impacted a Dolphins wildcard berth.)

[StillerPaul]

I just don't understand what's going on inside your head. Please, explain it to me. How is it THAT ridiculous? I could understand if MAYBE you thought Ben was SLIGHTLY superior, but to claim it isn't class is pure insanity and homerism.

I know stats don't always tell the story, but they're pretty indicitive of how much better Chad was last year.

Yards

Chad Pennington - 3,653

Ben Roethlisberger - 3,301

Touchdowns

Chad Pennington - 19

Ben Roethlisberger - 17

Interceptions

Chad Pennington - 9

Ben Roethlisberger - 15

Percentage

Chad Pennington - 67.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 59.9

Yards Per Attempt

Chad Pennington - 7.7

Ben Roethlisberger - 7.0

20+

Chad Pennington - 38

Ben Roethlisberger - 35

40+

Chad Pennington - 8

Ben Roethlisberger - 7

Rating

Chad Pennington - 97.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 80.1

I really don't get it. Where was he better? Because he took a few more hits? And yes, I did see the Steelers play a lot last year. But I also say Byron Leftwich come in and the Steelers offense didn't skip a beat. You guys win with defense and a quality running game. Ben put you in bad situations a lot and had to bail himself out in the final minutes.

And Chad had a lot of late game heroics himself. There was a streak of four consecutive games where we possessed the ball for 10+ minutes in the fourth quarter. You're not going to lose games doing that. This includes an 80 yard, 8 minute, 15 play drive against Denver at Mile High for a touchdown that gave us a 26-17 lead. It also included a 3rd and 17 conversion and a 3rd and 7 conversion down in the red zone. That's clutch.

1. Watch both players play.... Watch both players play the Ravens D.... Watch HUGE difference in players abilities...

2.Watch both players throw deep out pattern required of NFL QB... Huge difference...

3. Watch look in both player eyes when faced with adversity... Once again, huge difference....

ugh.......

[CTM]

I just don't understand what's going on inside your head. Please, explain it to me. How is it THAT ridiculous? I could understand if MAYBE you thought Ben was SLIGHTLY superior, but to claim it isn't class is pure insanity and homerism.

I know stats don't always tell the story, but they're pretty indicitive of how much better Chad was last year.

Yards

Chad Pennington - 3,653

Ben Roethlisberger - 3,301

Touchdowns

Chad Pennington - 19

Ben Roethlisberger - 17

Interceptions

Chad Pennington - 9

Ben Roethlisberger - 15

Percentage

Chad Pennington - 67.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 59.9

Yards Per Attempt

Chad Pennington - 7.7

Ben Roethlisberger - 7.0

20+

Chad Pennington - 38

Ben Roethlisberger - 35

40+

Chad Pennington - 8

Ben Roethlisberger - 7

Rating

Chad Pennington - 97.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 80.1

I really don't get it. Where was he better? Because he took a few more hits? And yes, I did see the Steelers play a lot last year. But I also say Byron Leftwich come in and the Steelers offense didn't skip a beat. You guys win with defense and a quality running game. Ben put you in bad situations a lot and had to bail himself out in the final minutes.

And Chad had a lot of late game heroics himself. There was a streak of four consecutive games where we possessed the ball for 10+ minutes in the fourth quarter. You're not going to lose games doing that. This includes an 80 yard, 8 minute, 15 play drive against Denver at Mile High for a touchdown that gave us a 26-17 lead. It also included a 3rd and 17 conversion and a 3rd and 7 conversion down in the red zone. That's clutch.

Dude.. get a grip seriously..

Yes chad did wonderful playing the single A schedule this season. Good for him, he got his cookie in the form of the "boy you sure sucked last year and suprised the **** out of us that you weren't backing up gus ferrotte this season" award, otherwise known as CPOY (chad pennington of the year), but again, when stepping up in class to play a decent team he fell apart and looked hopeless doing it. So hopeless in fact that it reminds me why you guys treat him like he's a "special" 11 year old girl with the unearned accolades you sensitive momma's boys give him. A normal QB is doing his job by dumping off and playing keep away with the lead, when CHad does it, you act like he just summited everst. It's maddenning, maddenning I tell you!

Anyway, as you saw what happenned in the playoffs, Chad was the only QB to look so helpless against Baltimore. Kerry Collins tore them up with a lot less talent around him (Johnson went down early you'll recall) and Ben played respectedly with again, less talent around him.

Edited July 7, 2009 by CTM

[CTM]

1. Watch both players play.... Watch both players play the Ravens D.... Watch HUGE difference in players abilities...

2.Watch both players throw deep out pattern required of NFL QB... Huge difference...

3. Watch look in both player eyes when faced with adversity... Once again, huge difference....

ugh.......

Watching game's is for barbarians, Aqueer4eva learns much more by reading the stats the next day as he enjoys a jar full of elmers school paste and reminisces about the good old days when the teachers would keep him safe from bullies..

[StillerPaul]

Watching game's is for barbarians, Aqueer4eva learns much more by reading the stats the next day as he enjoys a jar full of elmers school paste and reminisces about the good old days when the teachers would keep him safe from bullies..

I'll admit i can be a homer at times. It' just natural thing. But discounting Ben as a mediocre QB is just mind boggling to me. The guy just put his team on his back late in the biggest game of them all and made one of the greatest throws ever (CP doesn't even dream of that throw), played just about every top D in that season, still lead his team to 12-4 and SB WIN, has about as many late game heroics as John Elway ( if not more) at this stage of his career yet he's below Chad....... Wow

[Aqua4ever04]

1. Watch both players play.... Watch both players play the Ravens D.... Watch HUGE difference in players abilities...

2.Watch both players throw deep out pattern required of NFL QB... Huge difference...

3. Watch look in both player eyes when faced with adversity... Once again, huge difference....

ugh.......

1. One game doesn't change my mind. Chad did it throughout the course of the whole season. Everyone has one bad game.

2. We don't run many out patterns and we don't need to. The stick route works just the same and Chad throws that ball perfectly. And how about throwing the ball between the numbers? Chad is WAY better than Ben.

3. Now we're talking about what they're eyes look like? Hmm...

[Aqua4ever04]

Watching game's is for barbarians, Aqueer4eva learns much more by reading the stats the next day as he enjoys a jar full of elmers school paste and reminisces about the good old days when the teachers would keep him safe from bullies..

How is it that because my opinion is different than yours that I don't watch the games. I guarantee I watched just as much, if not more, than you. I didn't miss a primetime game and I watched the Dolphins every Sunday and then the late games I'd always be home watching.

I love football and that's ALL I DO on Sundays/Mondays/Thursdays.

[Jimmy Conway]

i like chad

[Jetsfan80]

1. One game doesn't change my mind. Chad did it throughout the course of the whole season. Everyone has one bad game.

Dear God....the above is EXACTLY what we Jets fans were saying in 2002 after Chad COMPLETELY fell apart against the Raiders in the playoffs, following what would be known as the best season of his career.

You are just as delusional as us. Actually, you are MORE delusional, because we have been through it before, and you have witnessed it already many times!

Chad hasn't had just "one bad game". This wasn't a fluke. The minute Pennington faces an elite defense, or even a very good one, he implodes. He gets the deer-in-headlights look, and suddenly loses all the game management skills he's known for. Take him a bit out of his comfort zone or, God forbid, make him come from behind, and good defenses take full advantage.

When the Dolphins are 6-10 next season, in large part due to Pennington's poor play against a 1st place schedule AND/OR an injury, you will be just as bewildered as we were.

But since you are a Dolphin fan, I couldn't care less that you are going to suffer next season like we did so many times with Chad. By all means, continue to believe that Pennington is your savior and more. Just don't say we never warned you.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Jetsfan80

[NFLs StepChild]

How the hell is this conversation continuing. A statement like "Chad is = to or > Ben" deserves no response other than maybe an eye roll.

[nyjunc]

EDIT: My bad, that game took place in February.

He should have 3-4 SB apps and 2-3 SB wins. Thankfully for him his D carried him to a SB title although w/ his 3 TDs and 7 INts that postseason he tried to throw it away.

I really can't believe the love Ben Roethlisberger gets here; he was an average quarterback last year and rode the accomplishments of a historically great defense. He's not even in my top 10.

Here's mine:

1.) Peyton Manning - A pioneer of the position taking the reigns as both passer and on-field offensive coordinator. Hits his receivers in stride, knows how to avert pressure, reset and deliver a strike, and the most cerebral player in all of football. He will be the best of all time when he's done.

2.) Drew Brees - He does make some costly mistakes at times, but I think this is in an effort to compensate for an inconsistent running game. Great at timing the rhythm of his drop and stepping into his throw and driving into his receiver. Understands how to look off defensive backs as well as any one not named Peyton.

3.) Tom Brady - He would be #2, but I'm going to hold off because of the knee injury. He doesn't get sacked, makes all the short, intermediate and long throws and is a gym rat that always knows where the coverage will dictate the route tree. But, like Manning, he succumbs to pressure just as bad as any.

4.) Phillip Rivers - He was the highest rated passer last year and excells in accuracy. Not a monster arm, but spreads the ball just as well as any one. Great thrower on the move and extends plays in and outside of the pocket with the best of them.

5.) Aaron Rodgers - This is my surprise pick for you guys. He throws from all platforms, hits the anticipation routes like a seasoned vet, and does it with prestine accuracy. This is sort of a prediction pick, watch him blossom into the NFL's elite this year.

The Steelers have had better Ds btw Bradshaw and ben and never won a SB, he now has 2 in 4 years inclduing a GW drive to win a SB w/ an incredible TD pass.

You like fantasy QBs obviously but if I want to win I'm not taking either of your top 2.

Such a terrible list. First of all, can we just stop calling Brady the best QB of all time? Charles Haley won five Super Bowls, so by this logic, he's the best player ever. IT'S A TEAM GAME!

Big Ben? Really? 15 picks and 17 touchdowns doesn't ring "elite" to me.

Where the hell is Drew Brees? Are you serious?

The game is about much more than fantasy #s(and he had 17 TDs and 15 INTs).

More important #s:

2005 Pitt SB run: Ben 7 TDs, 3 INTs

2006 Indy SB run: Peyton 3 TDs 7 INTs

2008 Pitt SB run: Ben 3 TDs, 1 INT

And in many of those games, if he doesn't have the best defense in the entire NFL behind him, those games are blowouts and those final drives never warrant any meaning.

The games are 60 minutes, not 4.

You do realize that the great Steeler D was thrashed in the 4th qtr by Ari, right? you do know that they allowed the go ahead TD w/ just over 2 mins left, right?

I'm tired of the D excuse, the Indy D has been more than good enough to win if they had a QB who could win under pressure but they don't.

[CTM]

How is it that because my opinion is different than yours that I don't watch the games. I guarantee I watched just as much, if not more, than you. I didn't miss a primetime game and I watched the Dolphins every Sunday and then the late games I'd always be home watching.

I love football and that's ALL I DO on Sundays/Mondays/Thursdays.

Well, clearly I wasn't aware of the type of guy I was tangling with here. Based on your extensive television watching habits this past season, I am now inclined to defer to your opinion over my own. Yes, you are right, Chad is better then Big Ben.

[Klecko73isGod]

Well, clearly I wasn't aware of the type of guy I was tangling with here. Based on your extensive television watching habits this past season, I am now inclined to defer to your opinion over my own. Yes, you are right, Chad is better then Big Ben.