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Well, clearly I wasn't aware of the type of guy I was tangling with here. Based on your extensive television watching habits this past season, I am now inclined to defer to your opinion over my own. Yes, you are right, Chad is better then Big Ben.

Wanna come over on Sunday's? I'll get the big TV in the same room as my game TV and we can watch the games side by side. We can cuddle at halftime.

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Wanna come over on Sunday's? I'll get the big TV in the same room as my game TV and we can watch the games side by side. We can cuddle at halftime.

two conditions

1) i get to wear the mesh black top that Chad was wearing in his TransMiami photoshoot

2) that's all i'll be wearing

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I just don't understand what's going on inside your head. Please, explain it to me. How is it THAT ridiculous? I could understand if MAYBE you thought Ben was SLIGHTLY superior, but to claim it isn't class is pure insanity and homerism.

I know stats don't always tell the story, but they're pretty indicitive of how much better Chad was last year.

Yards

Chad Pennington - 3,653

Ben Roethlisberger - 3,301

Touchdowns

Chad Pennington - 19

Ben Roethlisberger - 17

Interceptions

Chad Pennington - 9

Ben Roethlisberger - 15

Percentage

Chad Pennington - 67.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 59.9

Yards Per Attempt

Chad Pennington - 7.7

Ben Roethlisberger - 7.0

20+

Chad Pennington - 38

Ben Roethlisberger - 35

40+

Chad Pennington - 8

Ben Roethlisberger - 7

Rating

Chad Pennington - 97.4

Ben Roethlisberger - 80.1

I really don't get it. Where was he better? Because he took a few more hits? And yes, I did see the Steelers play a lot last year. But I also say Byron Leftwich come in and the Steelers offense didn't skip a beat. You guys win with defense and a quality running game. Ben put you in bad situations a lot and had to bail himself out in the final minutes.

And Chad had a lot of late game heroics himself. There was a streak of four consecutive games where we possessed the ball for 10+ minutes in the fourth quarter. You're not going to lose games doing that. This includes an 80 yard, 8 minute, 15 play drive against Denver at Mile High for a touchdown that gave us a 26-17 lead. It also included a 3rd and 17 conversion and a 3rd and 7 conversion down in the red zone. That's clutch.

Those are some impressive stats. Now allow me to retort:

BOfouSAAkZY

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How did this turn into a Chad vs. Big Ben debate? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. There is no conversation to be had. Big Ben is a top 5 Qb and Chad doesnt even break the top 15. This is crazy talk.

Aquahomer4ever, get over it, Chad is not that good. Seriously, he's not. Its great and all that you love him with all your heart, but he sucks. How can you have any confidence in him after that debacle you witnessed in the playoffs? We as Jets fans are used to it. If you are an NFL fan, you should be used to it. Wake up buddy, he is nothing more then a decent regular season QB and Big Ben is a 2 time Super Bowl Champion. Its really not close.

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How did this turn into a Chad vs. Big Ben debate? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. There is no conversation to be had. Big Ben is a top 5 Qb and Chad doesnt even break the top 15. This is crazy talk.

Aquahomer4ever, get over it, Chad is not that good. Seriously, he's not. Its great and all that you love him with all your heart, but he sucks. How can you have any confidence in him after that debacle you witnessed in the playoffs? We as Jets fans are used to it. If you are an NFL fan, you should be used to it. Wake up buddy, he is nothing more then a decent regular season QB and Big Ben is a 2 time Super Bowl Champion. Its really not close.

But... but... it's his defense it's not him.Chad would have had a dynasty if he was on the steelers.

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But... but... it's his defense it's not him.Chad would have had a dynasty if he was on the steelers.

Chad would certainly be alot better if he had a D like Pitt's or if he had help. He had no WR help in Miami and his RBs have big names but didn't show up against Bal as their Ol was absued. There isn't a QB dead or alive who would have had success against Bal w/ what Chad had to work w/.

W/ all that said Chad is obviously not in the best QB discussion though he is very good.

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Chad would certainly be alot better if he had a D like Pitt's or if he had help. He had no WR help in Miami and his RBs have big names but didn't show up against Bal as their Ol was absued. There isn't a QB dead or alive who would have had success against Bal w/ what Chad had to work w/.

W/ all that said Chad is obviously not in the best QB discussion though he is very good.

All those things didn't force him to throw 4 picks. It's been chronically and statistically proven that stick Chad in the PO's with tougher D's he just doesn't play as well.

Chad is a good regular season QB, very capable of destroying weak defensive teams as he has the know-how to pick those team apart. But his physical limitations are exposed against better defenses. Chad isn't a QB that "makes things happen", Chad is a QB who executes the game plan, nothing more, nothing less.

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All those things didn't force him to throw 4 picks. It's been chronically and statistically proven that stick Chad in the PO's with tougher D's he just doesn't play as well.

Chad is a good regular season QB, very capable of destroying weak defensive teams as he has the know-how to pick those team apart. But his physical limitations are exposed against better defenses. Chad isn't a QB that "makes things happen", Chad is a QB who executes the game plan, nothing more, nothing less.

Pretty much sums it up and with that said, that doesnt constitute being in this conversation...not even close.

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Pretty much sums it up and with that said, that doesnt constitute being in this conversation...not even close.

Agreed, top 5 QB's are OFFENSE CHANGING QB's. They are QB's you build your offense around. I'm sorry, Chad is not that. Chad is very nice complimentary part to an existing machine.

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Chad would certainly be alot better if he had a D like Pitt's or if he had help. He had no WR help in Miami and his RBs have big names but didn't show up against Bal as their Ol was absued. There isn't a QB dead or alive who would have had success against Bal w/ what Chad had to work w/.

that's such BS. Rex or Harbaugh said after the game that they had no fear of the downfield passing game which enabeld them to do different things. It's science dood.. A field is a fixed size, the less of it you have to defend with your 11 pawns, the better. it's a big reason why it's harder to move the ball in red zone.

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All those things didn't force him to throw 4 picks. It's been chronically and statistically proven that stick Chad in the PO's with tougher D's he just doesn't play as well.

Chad is a good regular season QB, very capable of destroying weak defensive teams as he has the know-how to pick those team apart. But his physical limitations are exposed against better defenses. Chad isn't a QB that "makes things happen", Chad is a QB who executes the game plan, nothing more, nothing less.

Chad has played 2 poor playoff games- his 1st road playoff game in 2002 and last year vs. Baltimore. In both cases his teammates were awful as well, he wasn't holding a team back he was part of an awful game shared w/ his teammates. You can win a SB w/ Chad you just have to have enough talent around him which we never really had.

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that's such BS. Rex or Harbaugh said after the game that they had no fear of the downfield passing game which enabeld them to do different things. It's science dood.. A field is a fixed size, the less of it you have to defend with your 11 pawns, the better. it's a big reason why it's harder to move the ball in red zone.

Their OL was dominated, Chad was sacked 3 times, hurried many more times, Ricky and Ronnie averaged 2.25 YPC, his starting WRs were Ted Ginn and Devone Bess. There's not a QB that has ever playued this game that would have had success that day w/ what he had to work w/.

Kerry Collins has a strong arm, right? How did he do? and he had a decent running game that day.

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Their OL was dominated, Chad was sacked 3 times, hurried many more times, Ricky and Ronnie averaged 2.25 YPC, his starting WRs were Ted Ginn and Devone Bess. There's not a QB that has ever playued this game that would have had success that day w/ what he had to work w/.

Kerry Collins has a strong arm, right? How did he do? and he had a decent running game that day.

Collins26/42 281 0 1

He didnt' throw 4 picks.

Edited by Vicious89x
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Chad has played 2 poor playoff games- his 1st road playoff game in 2002 and last year vs. Baltimore. In both cases his teammates were awful as well, he wasn't holding a team back he was part of an awful game shared w/ his teammates. You can win a SB w/ Chad you just have to have enough talent around him which we never really had.

Chad was bad at Pitt in 2004 too. 0 points scored. Not good.

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That's a complete lie!

He led the team on an awesome 11-play, 39-yard drive that was capped by a Doug Brien 42-yard FG.

3 points scored. Simply marvelous.

He had a pretty sick TD throw to Asante Samuel in 06...oh wait...nevermind.

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1. One game doesn't change my mind. Chad did it throughout the course of the whole season. Everyone has one bad game.

Everyone does have 'One Bad Game'... Why is it though, that Chad's 'One Bad Game' always seems to be in the playoffs?

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He had a pretty sick TD throw to Asante Samuel in 06...oh wait...nevermind.

That's a complete lie!

He led the team on an awesome 11-play, 39-yard drive that was capped by a Doug Brien 42-yard FG.

3 points scored. Simply marvelous.

WHATEVER, I WATCH EVERY GAME HE HAS EVER PLAYED YOU KNOW NOTHING, HIS COMPLETION PERCENTAGE WAS STILL OVER 80% IN THOSE GAMES.

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Collins26/42 281 0 1

He didnt' throw 4 picks.

Didn't throw 4 picks but led his team to basically the same amount of points w/ a much better team around him.

Chad was bad at Pitt in 2004 too. 0 points scored. Not good.

He led us to 3 and he wasn't good but he wasn't bad either. Remember he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder.

Chad is not in the top 5 discussion but it's comical how after all Chad did for our team he is thrown out like he is Kyle Mackey or Ray Lucas.

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Chad is not in the top 5 discussion but it's comical how after all Chad did for our team he is thrown out like he is Kyle Mackey or Ray Lucas.

'All he did for this team'?

What did he really do besides prove to be a fraud and sign a cap crippling contract that hurt us in signing our own free agents, let alone others?

2 Wild Card wins? Is that what we are impressed by and he revered for?

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Didn't throw 4 picks but led his team to basically the same amount of points w/ a much better team around him.

He led us to 3 and he wasn't good but he wasn't bad either. Remember he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder.

Excuses and more excuses. That's ALL people have been doing for Chad his entire career.

Chad is not in the top 5 discussion but it's comical how after all Chad did for our team he is thrown out like he is Kyle Mackey or Ray Lucas.

What do you mean "all he did for our team"? Be a likable guy who had a few good regular seasons, and s*** the bed when it counted?

Look, the reason we don't like Chad is because he is the ultimate tease. He makes you believe he is a prolific NFL QB by beating up the likes of the Texans and Bengals of the league. He has a good personality and is a good leader. Ownership gives him a giant contract as a result.

But then, just when you have put all your hope in him, he has a disastrous performance against the likes of the Patriots, Steelers, or Ravens. It's completely disillusioning.

Then, we have to listen to guys like you who say "he didn't have the talent around him!" Well guess what, sometimes a QB has to go out and win every once in a while against a superior team. It's what the great ones do!

By not doing this time and time again, Chad is an average QB. And it hurts all the more. It would be better if he was a Ray Lucas. At least you KNEW he sucked, and that if he was your only option, you had better draft a QB.

But no. With Chad, he did JUST ENOUGH to keep his job (despite getting hurt ALL THE TIME), without the team doing anything to really improve at the QB position (like drafting a Mark Sanchez).

The Dolphins are going through the same s*** now, with guys like Aqua telling us how great he is. Does anyone ever learn?

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Didn't throw 4 picks but led his team to basically the same amount of points w/ a much better team around him.

He led us to 3 and he wasn't good but he wasn't bad either. Remember he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder.

Chad is not in the top 5 discussion but it's comical how after all Chad did for our team he is thrown out like he is Kyle Mackey or Ray Lucas.

Wait... who is Tennessee's big receiving threat? McCarins? Bo Scaiffe?? Justin Gage???

Oh and he had a better RB's, right?

Miami- 118 yds rush

Titans- 137 yds rush

HUGE DIFFERENCE THERE!!!

Throwing 4 picks is essentially costing your team the game. The length people will go to defend this guy never ceases to astound me. He played right into the opposing teams plan even when his RB's got him over a 100 yds on the ground. He was awful, he gave away points and couldn't put his team in a position to win.

Meanwhile like it or not, the reason Baltimore won so "big" vs Miami is cause Chad handed away what, 14 pts?? Collins actually had his team close enough to win or tie.

And about Pittsburgh.

He wasnt' bad? Well in my book when you hand the team 7 pts and can only manage 3 pts for your offense so your -4.... I'd classify that as "bad".

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Wait... who is Tennessee's big receiving threat? McCarins? Bo Scaiffe?? Justin Gage???

Oh and he had a better RB's, right?

Miami- 118 yds rush

Titans- 137 yds rush

HUGE DIFFERENCE THERE!!!

Throwing 4 picks is essentially costing your team the game. The length people will go to defend this guy never ceases to astound me. He played right into the opposing teams plan even when his RB's got him over a 100 yds on the ground. He was awful, he gave away points and couldn't put his team in a position to win.

Meanwhile like it or not, the reason Baltimore won so "big" vs Miami is cause Chad handed away what, 14 pts?? Collins actually had his team close enough to win or tie.

And about Pittsburgh.

He wasnt' bad? Well in my book when you hand the team 7 pts and can only manage 3 pts for your offense so your -4.... I'd classify that as "bad".

Where did Miami have 118 rush yds? They had 52 rush yds on less than 2.5 YPC while Ten had 116 on 4.14 YPC against Baltimore.

He had a TORN ROTATOR CUFF in his throwing shoulder and if our K makes one of two MAKEABLE kicks we win.

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'All he did for this team'?

What did he really do besides prove to be a fraud and sign a cap crippling contract that hurt us in signing our own free agents, let alone others?

2 Wild Card wins? Is that what we are impressed by and he revered for?

-Led us to 3 postseasons(only Jets QB to start in 3 different postseasons)

-led us to only our 2nd EVER AFC East Title

-led us to only our 7th ever home playoff game

-led us to only our 3rd EVER road win

-ONLY Jets QB in our history to win playoff games in 2 different postseasons

-Conducted himself w/ nothing but class.

His contract didn't hurt us signing our own FAs- who did we lose b/c of his contract? and it wasn't his fault he tore his shoulder after signing the deal. He put his career on the line for us when he didn't have to yet no one appreciates him. You guys deserve Brett Favre.

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Where did Miami have 118 rush yds? They had 52 rush yds on less than 2.5 YPC while Ten had 116 on 4.14 YPC against Baltimore.

He had a TORN ROTATOR CUFF in his throwing shoulder and if our K makes one of two MAKEABLE kicks we win.

And if our QB was capable of simply doing his job and lead the team on one lousy TD drive we win the game.

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-Led us to 3 postseasons(only Jets QB to start in 3 different postseasons)

-led us to only our 2nd EVER AFC East Title

-led us to only our 7th ever home playoff game

-led us to only our 3rd EVER road win

-ONLY Jets QB in our history to win playoff games in 2 different postseasons

-Conducted himself w/ nothing but class.

His contract didn't hurt us signing our own FAs- who did we lose b/c of his contract? and it wasn't his fault he tore his shoulder after signing the deal. He put his career on the line for us when he didn't have to yet no one appreciates him. You guys deserve Brett Favre.

- Got embarrassed in every post season he was in, never made it to a championship game.

- With like the 3rd tiebreaker that we needed another team to win in week 17 for us to even make the playoffs.

- This is just an indication of how bad the Jets have been. That's not relevent.

- See above.

- See above.

Bottom line, it's clear what's going on here. Your attitude is that Chad should be revered because he's better than the crap we've had. You realize that better than bad does not make you good? Don't begrudge those of us who don't have your losers mentality that mediocrity should be celebrated because we've sucked in the past.

- Jason Ferguson, Laverneous Coles, Kareem McKenzie.

- Get over yourself with the 'put his career on the line for us'. 32 QBs a week go out and put themselves in harms way. He's not the first player to get hurt, and he wont be the last. Where are the candlelight vigil's for Brady, did he not put himself in harms way and get hurt? This is professional sports, not a Horatio Algers Novel... If a player performs, they're celebrated, if they don't they're boo'd. Most of us don't care about your excuses.

- I'd take Brett over Chad for 2010. Care to explain why Chad gets 600 excuses for his injuries but Brett's arm injury is simply ignored?

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Where did Miami have 118 rush yds? They had 52 rush yds on less than 2.5 YPC while Ten had 116 on 4.14 YPC against Baltimore.

He had a TORN ROTATOR CUFF in his throwing shoulder and if our K makes one of two MAKEABLE kicks we win.

Sorry- my mistake I looked at avg.

But did the run game force him to throw 4 picks?

And if he had a torn rotator cuff it's not an excuse. If he can't throw the ball cause his owie hurts, sit down.

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And if our QB was capable of simply doing his job and lead the team on one lousy TD drive we win the game.

Shut up, he's a warrior, HE PLAYED WITH A HURT ARM. HE IS CLASSY. AND HAS NICE HAIR.

I think I'm gonna switch over to the "pro" Pennington camp, making arguments out of nonsense is much easier.

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- Got embarrassed in every post season he was in, never made it to a championship game.

- With like the 3rd tiebreaker that we needed another team to win in week 17 for us to even make the playoffs.

- This is just an indication of how bad the Jets have been. That's not relevent.

- See above.

- See above.

Bottom line, it's clear what's going on here. Your attitude is that Chad should be revered because he's better than the crap we've had. You realize that better than bad does not make you good? Don't begrudge those of us who don't have your losers mentality that mediocrity should be celebrated because we've sucked in the past.

- Jason Ferguson, Laverneous Coles, Kareem McKenzie.

- Get over yourself with the 'put his career on the line for us'. 32 QBs a week go out and put themselves in harms way. He's not the first player to get hurt, and he wont be the last. Where are the candlelight vigil's for Brady, did he not put himself in harms way and get hurt? This is professional sports, not a Horatio Algers Novel... If a player performs, they're celebrated, if they don't they're boo'd. Most of us don't care about your excuses.

- I'd take Brett over Chad for 2010. Care to explain why Chad gets 600 excuses for his injuries but Brett's arm injury is simply ignored?

We didn't get embarrassed in any postseason he played for us.

2002 lost 30-10, it was a 10-10 game late in the 3rd and 17-10 in the 4th before oak pulled away.

2004 lost by a FG in OT to a 15-1 team on the road- a team that would win 2 of the next 4 SBs

2006 lost at NE, the game was w/in a TD w/ about 5 mins left before things fell apart.

Miami lost 38-3 to Den in 1998 and 62-7 in '99 to Jax- THAT is getting embarrassed.

We beat up NE on the road in front of a Nat'l TV audience then beat the "great" Brett favre and the 12-3 Packers in 2002 to win the div.

Chad signed his deal in 2004, we let Coles go in 2003, Fergsuon was offered a fair deal to return and we didn't want to overpay for Kareem who is an average RT.

He gave up money in '06 to come back and compete for his job, he played w/ a torn rotator cuff in '04 and cmae back quickly to try to help us in '05.

Brett was bad before his supposed injury and Brett's claim to fame is playing through pain. If we kept Chad and didn't make the foolish Favre trade we easily win the div last year.

Sorry- my mistake I looked at avg.

But did the run game force him to throw 4 picks?

And if he had a torn rotator cuff it's not an excuse. If he can't throw the ball cause his owie hurts, sit down.

He was bad in the game, he deserves his share of the blame but the point is no QB would succeed w/ what Miami had around him and how they performed that day.

It was Chad or Quincy Carter in 2004, I'd take an injured Chad over Quincy.

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Their OL was dominated, Chad was sacked 3 times, hurried many more times, Ricky and Ronnie averaged 2.25 YPC, his starting WRs were Ted Ginn and Devone Bess. There's not a QB that has ever playued this game that would have had success that day w/ what he had to work w/.

Kerry Collins has a strong arm, right? How did he do? and he had a decent running game that day.

Hmm.. collins lit them up, and drove them up and down the field only to watch a receiver or running back fumble.

And his running game died when Chris Johnson got hurt that day..

Finally, and for the eleventybillionth time, when the primary strategy to defend the passing game is 8 men in the box, it has a side effect of controlling the rushing game as well.

THe noodlearm is her own worst enemy in that regard

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'All he did for this team'?

What did he really do besides prove to be a fraud and sign a cap crippling contract that hurt us in signing our own free agents, let alone others?

2 Wild Card wins? Is that what we are impressed by and he revered for?

QB's we didn't a make a play for because we had Chad fricken pennington..

Brees, Cutler, Schaub

QB's we did make a play for because we had Chad fricken pennington

Brett Favre

I win!

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