Top 5 Qb's

[Klecko73isGod]

One led his team to 10 pts, the other to 9. Not much difference.

I know he played most of the Jax game but he gets credit for the Buf loss in '04 when he got hurt and didn;'t finish so why should he get credit for the '02 loss at Jax? Either way he led us back to a division title out of a 1-4 hole in a division w/ a dynasty team- the ONLY year the Pats didn't win the div when Tom Brady was their starter.

Isn't it amazing that a QB that can't play can lead a 1-15 team to 11 wins and a div title while we got the suppsoed better QB and had better talent around the QB and we went 9-7?

Take a good hard look at the Dolphins' schedule from last year and get back to me.

There may have never been nor ever be so favorable a schedule in football history.

[SenorGato]

that's hilarity dood..

been such a long time since a Chad debate

Lol theres no point in arguing it since everyone's deadset against it.

Chad Pennington broke Jets' fans hearts, and Jets fans are very bitter people when it comes to the Jets.

2002 was awesome, and even after his shoulder injury we were a FG kick away from a Super Bowl appearance in 2004. He's worked his ass off to even have a career in the NFL after the injuries, and I have nothing but respect for a man like that. Now he's a decent enough QB with limited physical tools.

Dammit now I'm getting dragged into this sh*tty debate. Theres no middle ground with the two extremist groups here...so I really see no point in me being in this.

[Vicious89x]

One led his team to 10 pts, the other to 9. Not much difference.

I know he played most of the Jax game but he gets credit for the Buf loss in '04 when he got hurt and didn;'t finish so why should he get credit for the '02 loss at Jax? Either way he led us back to a division title out of a 1-4 hole in a division w/ a dynasty team- the ONLY year the Pats didn't win the div when Tom Brady was their starter.

Isn't it amazing that a QB that can't play can lead a 1-15 team to 11 wins and a div title while we got the suppsoed better QB and had better talent around the QB and we went 9-7?

[SenorGato]

^^ Exactly why discussing Chad Pennington is retarded.

You're either in love with him or you think he's a destroyer of franchises.

[nyjunc]

Take a good hard look at the Dolphins' schedule from last year and get back to me.

There may have never been nor ever be so favorable a schedule in football history.

we both played pretty much the same teams, how did we do w/ more talent and a supposedly better QB?

[Vicious89x]

^^ Exactly why discussing Chad Pennington is retarded.

Discussing it makes no sense because you're operating of the premise of what

COULD HAVE BEEN.

We know what he HAS been. The facts and statistics are out there. Yet people who revere him above all turn a blind eye and cite things like intangibles and his heart and completion %.

Chad Pennington is an above average Quarterback, a serviceable starter, not a franchise QB or a game changer.

[nyjunc]

^^ Exactly why discussing Chad Pennington is retarded.

You're either in love with him or you think he's a destroyer of franchises.

There's a middle ground for the logical folks who realize who is and was a good player and helped our team win alot of games. No one claims he is great or that he is a HOFer but he was a good QB for us and gets no respect from most of the fan base.

[SenorGato]

Discussing it makes no sense because you're operating of the premise of what

COULD HAVE BEEN.

We know what he HAS been. The facts and statistics are out there. Yet people who revere him above all turn a blind eye and cite things like intangibles and his heart and completion %.

Chad Pennington is an above average Quarterback, a serviceable starter, not a franchise QB or a game changer.

No, I'm working with what has been...a very good young QB who came back from an injury no one before him had and turned himself into a useful, but limited starter.

Also a very bright guy who has the potential to coach one day if he chooses to do so.

I just haven't decided to blame the futility of this franchise on him, nor have I made him the poster boy of that futility...though I guess I should have since the monster contract he got AFTER the injuries was dumb from day 1.

[Vicious89x]

No, I'm working with what has been...a very good young QB who came back from an injury no one before him had and turned himself into a useful, but limited starter.

Also a very bright guy who has the potential to coach one day if he chooses to do so.

I just haven't decided to blame the futility of this franchise on him, nor have I made him the poster boy of that futility...though I guess I should have since the monster contract he got AFTER the injuries was dumb from day 1.

Well maybe you and I are in the same boat because for me, I don't make him out to be the savior of our franchise and a QB who could win superbowls and everything negative that has happened to him is just pure ol' bad luck.

I'm not anti-Pennington. I'm more anti-Pennington's fanboy.

[Arsis]

Chad Pennington would have been the best QB in Jets history if he never had his shoulder torn apart twice.

This is as far as I'm taking this conversation, since it's an absolutely retarded one with no middle ground.

That is a pretty big boast based nowhere close to reality. The guy had a promising partial season in 02 and has never been anywhere close to above average since. He disappeared against the better defenses and was the most injury prone person I have ever seen. Did he suck? No. Was he good? No. he is the definition of mediocre. Maybe slightly below average.

[SenorGato]

That is a pretty big boast based nowhere close to reality. The guy had a promising partial season in 02 and has never been anywhere close to above average since. He disappeared against the better defenses and was the most injury prone person I have ever seen. Did he suck? No. Was he good? No. he is the definition of mediocre. Maybe slightly below average.

Dude the guy wasn't even supposed to throw an NFL pass again.

The fact that he's become an above average QB after that was un-f'ing-believable at the time.

[Arsis]

Dude the guy wasn't even supposed to throw an NFL pass again.

The fact that he's become an above average QB after that was un-f'ing-believable at the time.

so you are attributing advancements in medicine and surgery to chad pennington? That seems a bit silly to me. Tommy John's surgery made it so people can play after previous career ending injuries. Should we make excuses for people who came back from that surgery and suck? "Well 15 years ago he would have never pitched again." Seems silly to me and like you are trying to excuse him being mediocre.

[nyjunc]

Discussing it makes no sense because you're operating of the premise of what

COULD HAVE BEEN.

We know what he HAS been. The facts and statistics are out there. Yet people who revere him above all turn a blind eye and cite things like intangibles and his heart and completion %.

Chad Pennington is an above average Quarterback, a serviceable starter, not a franchise QB or a game changer.

The facts are he did an excellent job for us. No he wasn't a great QB outside of 2002 but he is the only Jets QB to start for us in 3 playoff games and in years he was healthy we made it every time. His only problem was his durability which is why he's not here anymore.

[Matt39]

The facts are he did an excellent job for us. No he wasn't a great QB outside of 2002 but he is the only Jets QB to start for us in 3 playoff games and in years he was healthy we made it every time. His only problem was his durability which is why he's not here anymore.

Yeah, that and he couldnt make nearly all the throws.

[ZachEY]

The facts are he did an excellent job for us. No he wasn't a great QB outside of 2002 but he is the only Jets QB to start for us in 3 playoff games and in years he was healthy we made it every time. His only problem was his durability which is why he's not here anymore.

Your definition of 'excellent' is pathetic.

[SenorGato]

so you are attributing advancements in medicine and surgery to chad pennington? That seems a bit silly to me. Tommy John's surgery made it so people can play after previous career ending injuries. Should we make excuses for people who came back from that surgery and suck? "Well 15 years ago he would have never pitched again." Seems silly to me and like you are trying to excuse him being mediocre.

I'm attributing advancements in medicine to Chad Pennington? Wtf are you reading? The guy worked his ass off after suffering through an injury (twice!) that no one has ever come back from again, and he still manages to be "only" an above average NFL QB.

Also, what exactly do you know about arm injuries? To someone throwing any kind of ball, a shoulder injury is on a whole 'nother level compared to injuring your elbow.

[ZachEY]

No....Chad hand picked the Dolphins. And all he did was take that 1-15 team and make them a division champion. Not bad for a mediocre quarterback.

Show me one single report where another team expressed intrest in Chad, and then you can talk about 'hand-picking'.

[nyjunc]

Yeah, that and he couldnt make nearly all the throws.

but he could win.

Your definition of 'excellent' is pathetic.

Have you followed this team long? playoff apps don't come around often except in the last 10 years or so.

The man led us to 3 postseason w/ basically 3 different teams. In '02 it was Coles and Chrebet as his starting WRs, in '04 it was Moss and McCareins, in '06 Coles and Cotch w/ a running game that was putrid featuring Kevan Barlow as our starter.

[nyjunc]

Show me one single report where another team expressed intrest in Chad, and then you can talk about 'hand-picking'.

The 32-year-old quarterback reportedly has several teams interested in him, including Miami, Minnesota, Kansas City and the Giants.

http://www.newsok.com/pennington-moving-on-after-time-with-jets/article/1873097

The Jets released Pennington at 4 p.m. Thursday to clear salary-cap space for Brett Favre's arrival, but a half dozen teams already have contacted Pennington's agent, Tom Condon, to express interest in signing the eight-year NFL veteran, a source told ESPN.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3523819&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

[Vicious89x]

The facts are he did an excellent job for us. No he wasn't a great QB outside of 2002 but he is the only Jets QB to start for us in 3 playoff games and in years he was healthy we made it every time. His only problem was his durability which is why he's not here anymore.

That's because he was signed to an albatross of a contract so he stayed with the team.

He started in 3 playoff games that to my memory... were all pretty painful, call me fickle, but outside of that Indy game I dont' remember much... excellence. Two horrifying defeats in the playoffs doesn't make me love the guy.

Perhaps you value the regular season more then I do. To me it's a means to an end. Win games, get in playoffs, succeed. Getting handled in the divisional round twice isn't something I'm going to pine over.

[nyjunc]

That's because he was signed to an albatross of a contract so he stayed with the team.

He started in 3 playoff games that to my memory... were all pretty painful, call me fickle, but outside of that Indy game I dont' remember much... excellence. Two horrifying defeats in the playoffs doesn't make me love the guy.

Perhaps you value the regular season more then I do. To me it's a means to an end. Win games, get in playoffs, succeed. Getting handled in the divisional round twice isn't something I'm going to pine over.

You have a poor memory of you can't remember all his playoff games since they are were w/in the last 6 years.

The Pitt loss was painful, watching a kicker miss 2 makeable FGs when all we needed was one to get to the title game was painful.

The Indy win was great.

The SD win was even better.

The Oak loss sucked but it was his first road playoff start.

The NE game we had no shot and we kept it close until very late.

[Arsis]

I'm attributing advancements in medicine to Chad Pennington? Wtf are you reading? The guy worked his ass off after suffering through an injury (twice!) that no one has ever come back from again, and he still manages to be "only" an above average NFL QB.

Also, what exactly do you know about arm injuries? To someone throwing any kind of ball, a shoulder injury is on a whole 'nother level compared to injuring your elbow.

You're saying he is a big bad mofo because he came back from a injury other people could not have in the past. You are attributing it to his innate toughness. Which if he had he would not be getting injured all the time. I am saying he benefited from advancements in modern medicine.

[Klecko73isGod]

You have a poor memory of you can't remember all his playoff games since they are were w/in the last 6 years.

The Pitt loss was painful, watching a kicker miss 2 makeable FGs when all we needed was one to get to the title game was painful.

The Indy win was great.

The SD win was even better.

The Oak loss sucked but it was his first road playoff start.

The NE game we had no shot and we kept it close until very late.

The Pitt loss was made more painful by the fact that our "star" QB who had recently signed a ridiculously huge contract failed to lead the offense on a single TD drive when that's all it would have taken to win the game.

[Arsis]

Chad was mediocre. You may be happy with that. I'm not.

[Matt39]

but he could win.

Have you followed this team long? playoff apps don't come around often except in the last 10 years or so.

The man led us to 3 postseason w/ basically 3 different teams. In '02 it was Coles and Chrebet as his starting WRs, in '04 it was Moss and McCareins, in '06 Coles and Cotch w/ a running game that was putrid featuring Kevan Barlow as our starter.

What was Chad's record as a starter for the NYJ?

[Vicious89x]

You have a poor memory of you can't remember all his playoff games since they are were w/in the last 6 years.

The Pitt loss was painful, watching a kicker miss 2 makeable FGs when all we needed was one to get to the title game was painful.

The Indy win was great.

The SD win was even better.

The Oak loss sucked but it was his first road playoff start.

The NE game we had no shot and we kept it close until very late.

And therein lies the key difference.

You expect everyone else to do their job but when Chad doesn't... it's excusable. There's an excuse.

He threw a pick 6... he cost our team 7 points... never forget that. No one on the team said "Throw the ball there Chad" he threw a bad pass and we paid for it. Relying on someone else to do their job is not doing your own job.

The NE game "we kept it close". Why? Because we couldn't score and what basically iced that game?? A pick 6. My memory is fine bro... you just have a selective process of making excuses for him. Both playoff wins were nice, absolutely.

But we always got decimated in the divisional round. We were never a serious contender with Chad at the helm. But in your case it's not Chad's fault it's the RB's, and the O-line, and WR's, and the coaches, and the refs, and the wind, and the stadium, etc.

It's never his fault... never.

[Matt39]

I'm starting a Herm thread.

[StillerPaul]

Gotta admit it's pretty entertaining watching Jets fans debate about Pennington.

[Arsis]

Gotta admit it's pretty entertaining watching Jets fans debate about Pennington.

What is your objective opinion on the guy?

[StillerPaul]

What is your objective opinion on the guy?

Neil O'Donnell part II.

Gets your hopes up, then bashes said hopes EVERY single time he has the opportunity to prove he belongs with the elite.

Yet it's ALWAYS someone elses fault the team loses.

Ben comes around our way, show's us what a difference a stud QB makes, BAMM we see results.

Valuable lesson for me ?? QB's are more important than i thought. Bill Cowher prolly feels same way now too!

[nyjunc]

And therein lies the key difference.

You expect everyone else to do their job but when Chad doesn't... it's excusable. There's an excuse.

He threw a pick 6... he cost our team 7 points... never forget that. No one on the team said "Throw the ball there Chad" he threw a bad pass and we paid for it. Relying on someone else to do their job is not doing your own job.

The NE game "we kept it close". Why? Because we couldn't score and what basically iced that game?? A pick 6. My memory is fine bro... you just have a selective process of making excuses for him. Both playoff wins were nice, absolutely.

But we always got decimated in the divisional round. We were never a serious contender with Chad at the helm. But in your case it's not Chad's fault it's the RB's, and the O-line, and WR's, and the coaches, and the refs, and the wind, and the stadium, etc.

It's never his fault... never.

The problem w/ that theory is I have said Chad wasn't good at Pitt and that he deserved his share of the blame against Oak in 2002 and last year vs. Baltimore.

That pick 6 against NE was in garbage time of that game.

You are just using examples from the NE game, a game we were w/in a TD w/ about 5 mins or so left before it got out of hand. On the road against a QB who has NEVER lost at home and a team that would nearly make the SB.

We were never decimated int he div rd, see Miami 1998 and 1999 for an example of that.

Neil O'Donnell part II.

Gets your hopes up, then bashes said hopes EVERY single time he has the opportunity to prove he belongs with the elite.

Yet it's ALWAYS someone elses fault the team loses.

Ben comes around our way, show's us what a difference a stud QB makes, BAMM we see results.

Valuable lesson for me ?? QB's are more important than i thought. Bill Cowher prolly feels same way now too!

He was much better than Neil O'Donnell- MUCH. O'Donnell is a quality backup QB in the NFL, Chad is a quality starter.

[Vicious89x]

The problem w/ that theory is I have said Chad wasn't good at Pitt and that he deserved his share of the blame against Oak in 2002 and last year vs. Baltimore.

That pick 6 against NE was in garbage time of that game.

You are just using examples from the NE game, a game we were w/in a TD w/ about 5 mins or so left before it got out of hand. On the road against a QB who has NEVER lost at home and a team that would nearly make the SB.

We were never decimated int he div rd, see Miami 1998 and 1999 for an example of that.

He was much better than Neil O'Donnell- MUCH. O'Donnell is a quality backup QB in the NFL, Chad is a quality starter.

Chad wasn't the QB in 98 and 99

and... ahem

they lost for the second year in a row to the Oakland Raiders, 30-10 in the Divisional round.

[#27TheDominator]

The problem w/ that theory is I have said Chad wasn't good at Pitt and that he deserved his share of the blame against Oak in 2002 and last year vs. Baltimore.

That pick 6 against NE was in garbage time of that game.

You are just using examples from the NE game, a game we were w/in a TD w/ about 5 mins or so left before it got out of hand. On the road against a QB who has NEVER lost at home and a team that would nearly make the SB.

We were never decimated int he div rd, see Miami 1998 and 1999 for an example of that.

So, because you admit that he sucked in half of his playoff games there is a problem with the theory that he sucks in the playoffs? I liked Chad I think he can get a bum rap around here, but when you are down two scores with over five minutes left and you call it "garbage time" there is a problem with your QB. The game got out of hand because Captain Courageous threw the pick six. Not the other way around.

Oh my God! In the playoffs against a team that nearly made the super bowl? How could anyone be expected to succeed!!!!

He was much better than Neil O'Donnell- MUCH. O'Donnell is a quality backup QB in the NFL, Chad is a quality starter.

This is flat out bull****. Neil O'Donnell took a team to the super bowl and he was a solid starter. Chad may be better, but not much better.

[Vicious89x]

So, because you admit that he sucked in half of his playoff games there is a problem with the theory that he sucks in the playoffs? I liked Chad I think he can get a bum rap around here, but when you are down two scores with over five minutes left and you call it "garbage time" there is a problem with your QB. The game got out of hand because Captain Courageous threw the pick six. Not the other way around.

Oh my God! In the playoffs against a team that nearly made the super bowl? How could anyone be expected to succeed!!!!

This is flat out bull****. Neil O'Donnell took a team to the super bowl and he was a solid starter. Chad may be better, but not much better.

That's essentially my argument... he is an above average QB. Some around here revere him and defend him as one of the best to put on a pair of cleats. I think it's safe to say he had some good games... but he also had terrible games and seasons. And as a fan, I want my team to be contenders and with Chad I never felt we truly were.

[nyjunc]

Chad wasn't the QB in 98 and 99

and... ahem

they lost for the second year in a row to the Oakland Raiders, 30-10 in the Divisional round.

Where did I say he was the QB in '98 and '99? I said for an example of seeing a team decimated see Miami 1998 and 1999 whent hey lost 38-3 to Denver and 62-7 to Jacksonville. Yes we lost 30-10 to Oak but that game was tied 10-10 very late in the 3rd, we weren't just blwon out. Oak pulled away in the 4th.

So, because you admit that he sucked in half of his playoff games there is a problem with the theory that he sucks in the playoffs? I liked Chad I think he can get a bum rap around here, but when you are down two scores with over five minutes left and you call it "garbage time" there is a problem with your QB. The game got out of hand because Captain Courageous threw the pick six. Not the other way around.

Oh my God! In the playoffs against a team that nearly made the super bowl? How could anyone be expected to succeed!!!!

This is flat out bull****. Neil O'Donnell took a team to the super bowl and he was a solid starter. Chad may be better, but not much better.

We were down 2 TDs w/ 5 mins left at our own 23. We weren't coming back.

Would it have made you feel better if we got a token 1st down or 2 and lost 30-16?

O'Donnell had a MUCH better team around him in Pitt than Chad ever had here plus the AFC stunk back then opening things up and he still only made 1 SB w/ those talented Steeler teams. Chad pennington is a MUCH better starting QB than Neil O'Donnell. Chad has led the NFL in passing, was 2nd in MVP voting one year, played in a division w/ a dynatsy team in it and in the superior conf unlike when Neil was playing and the AFC sucked.