Top 5 Qb's

[Aqua4ever04]

I can assure you i'm not broken hearted. In fact, when he finally did struggle against Oakland I was somewhat relieved because I thought i has lost my mind for never thinking much of him

I'm curious to know the same thing nyjunc and I are discussing. What are your thoughts on Chad Henne?

[CTM]

There's a middle ground for the logical folks who realize who is and was a good player and helped our team win alot of games. No one claims he is great or that he is a HOFer but he was a good QB for us and gets no respect from most of the fan base.

'

You think you occupy the middle ground?

Really?

ftr..I have always said that Chad is a slightly above average QB, that you can win with, but probably not ever a Super Bowl unless the team around him is seriously stacked. My first issue was his salary, when he got the second biggest contract in league history in 2004, i know it was a mistake becaue you don't pay players that are best served as competant parts of a machince as if they are all-pro difference makers.

Sicne then, what drives me crazy is people like you who do nothing but make excuse after excuse for him, adn treat his very peedestrian accomplishments as some kind heroic acheivement.

[Gainzo]

They were 15-1, we should ahve beaten them if we got any offense but they had a good D and we had a QB w/ a torn rotator cuff who we know didn't have the strongest arm to begin w/.

Chad is a playoff zero, I don't dispute that. I wish he could have stayed healthy, I think things would have been different but we could do alot worse than a QB like Chad(such as the QB we had last year)

A good D? The Pats scored 5 offensive TD's against them in Pittsburgh. Chad couldn't even muster 1 TD.

[Arsis]

He was great in '02 leading us back from the 1-4, 2-5 start. He was the 2nd best QB in the NFL that year behind only Rich Gannon who won the MVP.

I agree he was great in those 11 games. Only those 11 games.

[CTM]

The problem w/ that theory is I have said Chad wasn't good at Pitt and that he deserved his share of the blame against Oak in 2002 and last year vs. Baltimore.

That pick 6 against NE was in garbage time of that game.

You are just using examples from the NE game, a game we were w/in a TD w/ about 5 mins or so left before it got out of hand. On the road against a QB who has NEVER lost at home and a team that would nearly make the SB.

Dude.. ANd what about the ill advised backwards lateral that Chad threw and then stood around like a god damn moron watching as Vince Wilfork of all people had the presence of mind to lumber over, pick it and up and advance it. That play was why we lost the game and it's 100% on Chad. the predictiable pick 6 was just the nail in the coffin.

And btw for such a supposedly smart player, that play was Bubby Brister dumb

[nyjunc]

A good D? The Pats scored 5 offensive TD's against them in Pittsburgh. Chad couldn't even muster 1 TD.

W/ the best QB in the NFL and you created 4 Turnovers that led to 3 TDs and a FG. You guys made them look foolish but that D was still very good.

[nyjunc]

Dude.. ANd what about the ill advised backwards lateral that Chad threw and then stood around like a god damn moron watching as Vince Wilfork of all people had the presence of mind to lumber over, pick it and up and advance it. That play was why we lost the game and it's 100% on Chad. the predictiable pick 6 was just the nail in the coffin.

And btw for such a supposedly smart player, that play was Bubby Brister dumb

ill advised? It was a screen apss that happened to be an inch backwards, 99 out of 100 times that play is oncomplete. The jets players evenb thought it was incomplete when it happened.

[CTM]

played both SB teams and 4 games overall against conf finalists. Our final SOS was the toughest of any playoff team that year if I remember correctly.

Of course we had a bunch of games against lesser teams but we did last year too w/ ALOT more talent and supposedly a better QB- how did that turn out? Our sched last year was much easier than 2006.

again, in 2006 the last 5 games were against teams with a losing record. That's 1-3 of our season!!! we also played a ton of teams drafting top 10 that season.

our schedule was hard in 2007, and Chad went 1-8

[nyjunc]

'

You think you occupy the middle ground?

Really?

ftr..I have always said that Chad is a slightly above average QB, that you can win with, but probably not ever a Super Bowl unless the team around him is seriously stacked. My first issue was his salary, when he got the second biggest contract in league history in 2004, i know it was a mistake becaue you don't pay players that are best served as competant parts of a machince as if they are all-pro difference makers.

Sicne then, what drives me crazy is people like you who do nothing but make excuse after excuse for him, adn treat his very peedestrian accomplishments as some kind heroic acheivement.

he is a good to very good QB and that is how I treat him. Never called his career great, he had the one great year and that was it and a few other good to really good years. People like you act like he was Kyle Mackey and have no appreciation for what he did for us. I appreciate it.

[#27TheDominator]

You have a poor memory of you can't remember all his playoff games since they are were w/in the last 6 years.

The Pitt loss was painful, watching a kicker miss 2 makeable FGs when all we needed was one to get to the title game was painful.

The Indy win was great.

The SD win was even better.

The Oak loss sucked but it was his first road playoff start.

The NE game we had no shot and we kept it close until very late.

Oakland didn't prove anything, it was his forst road playoff start.

The '04 game he played w/ a torn rotator cuff and while he didn't play well he didn't cost us the game- our K missing 2 makeable kicks did.

In '06 I never felt we were going to win that game BUT we were in it despite playing on the road against a team that would lose a close game in the AFC Title Game and it turned on a fluky screen pass that was an inch backward and became a fumble. 99 out of 100 times that play is incomplete.

Chad is a playoff zero, I don't dispute that. I wish he could have stayed healthy, I think things would have been different but we could do alot worse than a QB like Chad(such as the QB we had last year)

You could have fooled me. If that's the case then what the **** are we arguing about? You keep comparing him to Favre that "all time great" but I didn't see too many people that had Favre on their top 5 list. Besides, that old douche needed surgery and any Chad fan has to acknowledge that excuse.

[Aqua4ever04]

'

You think you occupy the middle ground?

Really?

ftr..I have always said that Chad is a slightly above average QB, that you can win with, but probably not ever a Super Bowl unless the team around him is seriously stacked. My first issue was his salary, when he got the second biggest contract in league history in 2004, i know it was a mistake becaue you don't pay players that are best served as competant parts of a machince as if they are all-pro difference makers.

Sicne then, what drives me crazy is people like you who do nothing but make excuse after excuse for him, adn treat his very peedestrian accomplishments as some kind heroic acheivement.

Based on the posts I've seen from you, I would've NEVER thought that. I had assumed you felt he was one of the worst QB's in football.

[nyjunc]

again, in 2006 the last 5 games were against teams with a losing record. That's 1-3 of our season!!! we also played a ton of teams drafting top 10 that season.

our schedule was hard in 2007, and Chad went 1-8

Did you watch the Jets in 2007? Did you see the OL we had? did you know Chad had 2 torn ligaments in his ankle? we saw what he did healthy w/ a much better OL last year. Chad's biggest problem has always been durability, he even got hurt in 2000 when he was our 3rd string QB.

[Arsis]

Dude.. ANd what about the ill advised backwards lateral that Chad threw and then stood around like a god damn moron watching as Vince Wilfork of all people had the presence of mind to lumber over, pick it and up and advance it. That play was why we lost the game and it's 100% on Chad. the predictiable pick 6 was just the nail in the coffin.

And btw for such a supposedly smart player, that play was Bubby Brister dumb

I think I occupy the middle ground with chad. Had a great 11 games in 02. After that was injury prone and very inconsistent which averaged out to him being a mediocre QB who could manage the game well but could not beat a top ten D.

[nyjunc]

You could have fooled me. If that's the case then what the **** are we arguing about? You keep comparing him to Favre that "all time great" but I didn't see too many people that had Favre on their top 5 list. Besides, that old douche needed surgery and any Chad fan has to acknowledge that excuse.

I don't know what we are arguing about. I jumped in when people were bashing him, I don't ask for praise but we also have to realze he was good and good for us.

[CTM]

I'm curious to know the same thing nyjunc and I are discussing. What are your thoughts on Chad Henne?

I wasn't that high on him coming out of college. Seemed to come up small in a lot of big spots and didn't have good ball placement.

That being said, have heard a lot of good things about him since then, and I imagine he can play CPF better then Chad cause at least he can threaten the entire field.

If I was a Miami fan, I'd be worried a little bit that Chad may be imparting his chicken **** ways on an immpresionable youth. And I'm not kidding, or being outlandish there to mess with you. I'm serious about that last point. One thing I've noticed is that the guys that play to win, win the trophies more then the meek ones that hang back and hope the other team screws up first. I don't find it to be a championship strategy.

[Gainzo]

I don't know what we are arguing about. I jumped in when people were bashing him, I don't ask for praise but we also have to realze he was good and good for us.

I think your Chad love is clouded because he happened to be the QB when the Jets made the playoffs a few times after the team sucked balls* for a long time.

*That is not a dig at the Jets.

[Aqua4ever04]

I wasn't that high on him coming out of college. Seemed to come up small in a lot of big spots and didn't have good ball placement.

That being said, have heard a lot of good things about him since then, and I imagine he can play CPF better then Chad cause at least he can threaten the entire field.

If I was a Miami fan, I'd be worried a little bit that Chad may be imparting his chicken **** ways on an immpresionable youth. And I'm not kidding, or being outlandish there to mess with you. I'm serious about that last point. One thing I've noticed is that the guys that play to win, win the trophies more then the meek ones that hang back and hope the other team screws up first. I don't find it to be a championship strategy.

He was notorious for coming up way short in bowl games until his senior year in the Capitol One Bowl where he shredded Florida.

I think it's good to have balance. You need the fire, but you also need to be level headed. Perhaps this was Dan Marinos' ONE downfall that he was a little too aggressive and firey when he should've learned to settle more often.

[CTM]

Did you watch the Jets in 2007? Did you see the OL we had? did you know Chad had 2 torn ligaments in his ankle? we saw what he did healthy w/ a much better OL last year. Chad's biggest problem has always been durability, he even got hurt in 2000 when he was our 3rd string QB.

sigh..

for a guy that excuses away most of Chad's career due to injuries, you sure don't afford Favre anything last season. THat's the problem. The excuses are only 1 sided. If CHad was the Jets QB last year, you'd be pounding your chest about 8-3, beating undefeated TN in TN, top 3 scoring offense, and then blaming the defense, coaches and and injury for the 0-5 finish. Of course you'll say that no you wouldn't, but it's so blatant that it's maddenning.

[StillerPaul]

If I was a Miami fan, I'd be worried a little bit that Chad may be imparting his chicken **** ways on an immpresionable youth. And I'm not kidding, or being outlandish there to mess with you. I'm serious about that last point. One thing I've noticed is that the guys that play to win, win the trophies more then the meek ones that hang back and hope the other team screws up first. I don't find it to be a championship strategy.

Excellent point CTM.

[CTM]

He was notorious for coming up way short in bowl games until his senior year in the Capitol One Bowl where he shredded Florida.

I think it's good to have balance. You need the fire, but you also need to be level headed. Perhaps this was Dan Marinos' ONE downfall that he was a little too aggressive and firey when he should've learned to settle more often.

Agreed on the bowl game.. almost forgot about that..

On the last part, it's not really firey, it's playing with confidence and to win. Not like a scared little chicken, hoping not to make mistakes. That's what CHad does, that's what he teaches.

Brady and Montana would be a good example of a guys who are neccesarily firey, but who aren't afraid to go for the jugular

[CTM]

Based on the posts I've seen from you, I would've NEVER thought that. I had assumed you felt he was one of the worst QB's in football.

No.. i think his approach to the game is one of the worst, which is a different. On the field his consistant ability to beat bad teams is valuable, and I know many people think that a guy like Chad combined with a great defense is championship caliber. (i think the team would need to be seriously stacked or catch some playoff breaks)

Remember back to last season, when I continually warned against Chad and the phins winning the division, as far back as like week 9. I wasn't doing taht cause I think Chad is terrible, i was doing it cause I saw a bunch of winnable games coming up for the phins and a QB that excels at beating those types of teams.

Heck even prior to Chad signing with Miami, I was openly nervous of him going to MN, which I thought he would've stood a decent chance of getting to the SB with...

[CTM]

ill advised? It was a screen apss that happened to be an inch backwards, 99 out of 100 times that play is oncomplete. The jets players evenb thought it was incomplete when it happened.

SHoudln't the guy who threw it backwards be the one who knowsn it was backwards? Shouldn't mister Rhodes Scholar candidate covered it up?

[Aqua4ever04]

Agreed on the bowl game.. almost forgot about that..

On the last part, it's not really firey, it's playing with confidence and to win. Not like a scared little chicken, hoping not to make mistakes. That's what CHad does, that's what he teaches.

Brady and Montana would be a good example of a guys who are neccesarily firey, but who aren't afraid to go for the jugular

This is an interesting topic that I've never really discussed, the balance of a quarterback's psyche.

I would love to run down the current NFL quarterbacks and try to decifer where each one is on which side of the pendulum.

[Klecko73isGod]

Man, Chad threads are like crack and Max is nothing but an enabler.

[CTM]

Man, Chad threads are like ribs and I am nothing but an consumer.

*

*sanchezified 4 teh klecktard

[Klecko73isGod]

*

*sanchezified 4 teh klecktard

You're an ass but the "o rlmente" is classic.

[CTM]

I think I occupy the middle ground with chad. Had a great 11 games in 02. After that was injury prone and very inconsistent which averaged out to him being a mediocre QB who could manage the game well but could not beat a top ten D.

That's fair i think..

And I agree with it. Somtimes the heels get dug in so hard that both sides exxagerate their points..

[nyjunc]

I think your Chad love is clouded because he happened to be the QB when the Jets made the playoffs a few times after the team sucked balls* for a long time.

*That is not a dig at the Jets.

Not really, I appreciate good players who are also good people off the field. Winning a championships what I want as a fan mroe than anything but that may never happen so I'm not going to bash every player than doesn't win it all.

He was notorious for coming up way short in bowl games until his senior year in the Capitol One Bowl where he shredded Florida.

I think it's good to have balance. You need the fire, but you also need to be level headed. Perhaps this was Dan Marinos' ONE downfall that he was a little too aggressive and firey when he should've learned to settle more often.

To be fair that was Carr's last game and UF had no interest playing in that game. Henne was 1-7 against OSU and in bowl games PLUS he lost to a 1AA team at home.

sigh..

for a guy that excuses away most of Chad's career due to injuries, you sure don't afford Favre anything last season. THat's the problem. The excuses are only 1 sided. If CHad was the Jets QB last year, you'd be pounding your chest about 8-3, beating undefeated TN in TN, top 3 scoring offense, and then blaming the defense, coaches and and injury for the 0-5 finish. Of course you'll say that no you wouldn't, but it's so blatant that it's maddenning.

If Favre stunk b/c of hin injury I'd give him the benefot of the doubt but outside of a 3 game stretch or so he was bad most of the year and in the last month his arm wasn't holding him back it was his head. His arm may not have been 100% but it was still a good one, he was throwing into double and triple coverage and turning it over 2-3 times a game.

We weren't top 3 in scoring offense last year, we were 9th and even that is misleading b/c we had so many points scroed from our D and STs.

[CTM]

If Favre stunk b/c of hin injury I'd give him the benefot of the doubt but outside of a 3 game stretch or so he was bad most of the year and in the last month his arm wasn't holding him back it was his head. His arm may not have been 100% but it was still a good one, he was throwing into double and triple coverage and turning it over 2-3 times a game.

We weren't top 3 in scoring offense last year, we were 9th and even that is misleading b/c we had so many points scroed from our D and STs.

Yeah.. ok. w/e..

and we were top 3 in scoring before the last 5 games when he ****ing sucked

[nyjunc]

Yeah.. ok. w/e..

and we were top 3 in scoring before the last 5 games when he ****ing sucked

We weren't top 3, AGAIN those #s were skewed thanks to all the defensive and STs TDs we scored(not to mention all the INTs and fumbles he gave up for TDs as well). Our O was never great last year, it was good at times(specifically the stretch from at Buf through at Ten) but never great.

[Bleed4TheGreen]

1-Manning

2-Big Ben

3-Brees

4-Brady

5-Rivers

I'm sorry, but Brady is going to have to show me @ the age of 32 that he still belongs up there after a season ending injury that required knee surgery. He could climb back up to the #1 spot but he has to show me here in 09 before I rank him above any of those top 3.

1-Ryan

2-Cutler

3-Rogers

4-Russell

5-Sanchez

6-Stafford

Could be elite QB's for years to come. 09 will explain alot about both Stafford and Sanchez and Stafford still has no O-Line.

[CTM]

We weren't top 3, AGAIN those #s were skewed thanks to all the defensive and STs TDs we scored(not to mention all the INTs and fumbles he gave up for TDs as well). Our O was never great last year, it was good at times(specifically the stretch from at Buf through at Ten) but never great.

so we weren't top 4 after TN game?

Ok

[nyjunc]

so we weren't top 4 after TN game?

Ok

Nope. After that Tennessee game we scored 323 points but 35 were scored by the D/STs, we scored 15 garbage time points in SD, Leon returned a KO to the 4 setting up a TD and Favre allowed 28 on INT/fumble returns. The only games our O exploded(vs. Ari and SL) our D scored 14 pts and created 12 turnovers. We never had a big time O last year.

[Klecko73isGod]

Nope. After that Tennessee game we scored 323 points but 35 were scored by the D/STs, we scored 15 garbage time points in SD, Leon returned a KO to the 4 setting up a TD and Favre allowed 28 on INT/fumble returns. The only games our O exploded(vs. Ari and SL) our D scored 14 pts and created 12 turnovers. We never had a big time O last year.

[CTM]

+1

I'd love for him to look at Chad under that same microscope..

oh boy..