Rosenthal on Halladay: Watch out for Phils & Yanks;Jays are open to in-division Trade

[Guido Monzino]

Nor should it stop.

[Bob]

Guido and Cashman are the last two guys who still think Joba's a starter.

Maybe Clueless Joe, too.

[DaBrick Wall]

Guido and Cashman are the last two guys who still think Joba's a starter.

Maybe Clueless Joe, too.

I would like to think a lot of people are rational enough to not judge a 23-year old pitcher on a handful of starts.

Or just the handful of starts they'd like to remember. You forgot about that 2.70 ERA as a starter last year, didn't you?

[Guido Monzino]

Guido and Cashman are the last two guys who still think Joba's a starter.

Maybe Clueless Joe, too.

You're right. A bunch of 13 year olds from a Jets message board should be making these decisions. Much more in touch with baseball then former players, current managers, GM's and scouts

We should definitely give up on a 23 year old pitcher halfway through his 1st full season as a starter. I mean, if you're not an ace by then, when will you be?

The guy you wish to trade for also started out his career with a mix of starts and bullpen innings. In his first 3 seasons, his bullpen numbers far surpassed his starting numbers. In fact, let's compare the beginning of their careers as starters:

Roy: 33 GS, 178.2 IP, 215 H, 95 BB, 116 K, 6.25 ERA, 1.735 WHIP, 1.22 K/BB, 5.8 K/9

Joba:29 GS, 154.1 IP, 157 H, 67 BB, 152 K, 3.62 ERA, 1.451 WHIP, 2.27 K/BB, 8.9 K/9

So through roughly their first 30 starts, Joba was a much better pitcher than the guy who is now the best pitcher in baseball. I'm not saying Joba will be better long term, but this shoud speak volumes about how idiotic it is to give up on Joba as a starter. Idiotic.

By your impatience and logic, the Blue Jays should have Halladay pitching in the bullpen. But you're right, he'd probably be great there.

Joba isn't going to the bullpen and Halladay isn't coming to the Yankees. Get over it. Let's move on to what we actually have and stop letting Mike Francesca and Rosenthal do your thinking for you. They're just trying to sell advertising.

[Arsis]

You're right. A bunch of 13 year olds from a Jets message board should be making these decisions. Much more in touch with baseball then former players, current managers, GM's and scouts

We should definitely give up on a 23 year old pitcher halfway through his 1st full season as a starter. I mean, if you're not an ace by then, when will you be?

The guy you wish to trade for also started out his career with a mix of starts and bullpen innings. In his first 3 seasons, his bullpen numbers far surpassed his starting numbers. In fact, let's compare the beginning of their careers as starters:

Roy: 33 GS, 178.2 IP, 215 H, 95 BB, 116 K, 6.25 ERA, 1.735 WHIP, 1.22 K/BB, 5.8 K/9

Joba:29 GS, 154.1 IP, 157 H, 67 BB, 152 K, 3.62 ERA, 1.451 WHIP, 2.27 K/BB, 8.9 K/9

So through roughly their first 30 starts, Joba was a much better pitcher than the guy who is now the best pitcher in baseball. I'm not saying Joba will be better long term, but this shoud speak volumes about how idiotic it is to give up on Joba as a starter. Idiotic.

By your impatience and logic, the Blue Jays should have Halladay pitching in the bullpen. But you're right, he'd probably be great there.

Joba isn't going to the bullpen and Halladay isn't coming to the Yankees. Get over it. Let's move on to what we actually have and stop letting Mike Francesca and Rosenthal do your thinking for you. They're just trying to sell advertising.

It's all about do you think we win a ring with Roy this and next year? Do you think we win without him. Some might say go for the ring this year and worry about three years from now three years from now.

[PS17]

It's all about do you think we win a ring with Roy this and next year? Do you think we win without him. Some might say go for the ring this year and worry about three years from now three years from now.

Btw Guido, I'm not 13.

[#27TheDominator]

I would like to think a lot of people are rational enough to not judge a 23-year old pitcher on a handful of starts.

Or just the handful of starts they'd like to remember. You forgot about that 2.70 ERA as a starter last year, didn't you?

I guess there are five of us.

I don't want to deal Joba or Hughes. I remember watching the Yanks deal Drabek, Rijos, Tewksbury and Wickman. Stick with the young guys and pay for the mercenaries. Don't get fleeced just to make a deal in the division.

[Bob]

in case anyone misunderstood, my lack of faith in Joba's ability does not mean I think we should give away the store to get Halladay. We've been down the road with aging stars before. I have no desire to do it again.

BTW, when I was 13, this was the Yankees roster:

# Pitchers Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth

52 Doyle Alexander 6-03 205 Right Right 1950-09-04

38 Ken Brett 5-11 195 Left Left 1948-09-18

36 Dock Ellis 6-03 210 Right Both 1945-03-11

31 Ed Figueroa 6-01 190 Right Right 1948-10-14

49 Ron Guidry 5-11 162 Left Left 1950-08-28

53 Ken Holtzman 6-02 175 Left Right 1945-11-03

29 Catfish Hunter 6-00 195 Right Right 1946-04-08

25 Grant Jackson 6-00 190 Left Both 1942-09-28

28 Sparky Lyle 6-01 192 Left Left 1944-07-22

18, 40 Tippy Martinez 5-10 180 Left Left 1950-05-31

43 Rudy May 6-03 207 Left Left 1944-07-18

53 Dave Pagan 6-02 175 Right Right 1949-09-15

19 Dick Tidrow 6-04 213 Right Right 1947-05-14

43 Jim York 6-03 200 Right Right 1947-08-27

# Catchers Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth

46 Rick Dempsey 6-00 190 Right Right 1949-09-13

40 Fran Healy 6-05 220 Right Right 1946-09-06

18 Ellie Hendricks 6-01 175 Right Left 1940-12-22

15 Thurman Munson 5-11 191 Right Right 1947-06-07

# Infielders Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth

2 Sandy Alomar 5-09 155 Right Both 1943-10-19

10 Chris Chambliss 6-01 215 Right Left 1948-12-26

20 Mickey Klutts 5-11 189 Right Right 1954-09-20

22 Jim Mason 6-02 190 Right Left 1950-08-14

9 Graig Nettles 6-00 186 Right Left 1944-08-20

30 Willie Randolph 5-11 166 Right Right 1954-07-06

11 Fred Stanley 5-10 167 Right Right 1947-08-13

# Outfielders Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth

26 Juan Bernhardt 5-11 160 Right Right 1953-08-31

26 Rich Coggins 5-08 170 Left Left 1950-12-07

47 Kerry Dineen 5-11 165 Left Left 1952-07-01

23 Oscar Gamble 5-11 165 Right Left 1949-12-20

46 Gene Locklear 5-10 165 Right Left 1949-07-19

27 Elliott Maddox 5-11 181 Right Right 1947-12-21

47 Larry Murray 5-11 179 Right Both 1953-04-01

14 Lou Piniella 6-02 198 Right Right 1943-08-28

17 Mickey Rivers 5-10 165 Left Left 1948-10-31

24 Otto Velez 6-00 195 Right Right 1950-11-29

6 Roy White 5-10 172 Right Both 1943-12-27

44 Terry Whitfield 6-01 197 Right Left 1953-01-12

# Other Positions Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth

12 Ron Blomberg 6-01 205 Right Left 1948-08-23

38 Carlos May 6-00 215 Right Left 1948-05-17

26 Cesar Tovar 5-09 155 Right Right 1940-07-03

[PFSIKH]

I guess there are five of us.

I don't want to deal Joba or Hughes. I remember watching the Yanks deal Drabek, Rijos, Tewksbury and Wickman. Stick with the young guys and pay for the mercenaries. Don't get fleeced just to make a deal in the division.

Dom I agree with you in principle.

Not so much for Halladay, but the Yanks had an opportunity to acquire Johan. A rare talent. Those players you mentioned were good, but none of them were that rare talent.

I would not sell the farm to get Halladay, but if the Yanks can get him on the cheap, they should make the move. Joba and Phil might be great, but if you can not totally ignore the now for what might be.

[Arsis]

Dom I agree with you in principle.

Not so much for Halladay, but the Yanks had an opportunity to acquire Johan. A rare talent. Those players you mentioned were good, but none of them were that rare talent.

I would not sell the farm to get Halladay, but if the Yanks can get him on the cheap, they should make the move. Joba and Phil might be great, but if you can not totally ignore the now for what might be.

I think the debate here is about winning now vs saving for the unknown future. If the yanks get roy this season they become the favorites to win the world series barring majot injury. Is it worth giving up the unknown future for a real tangible shot at the World series this year and probably another one in the next two years. Do you take the change to put yourself over the top now at the detriment to your team in 4 years. Which could suck anyway.

[neckdemon]

Dom I agree with you in principle.

Not so much for Halladay, but the Yanks had an opportunity to acquire Johan. A rare talent. Those players you mentioned were good, but none of them were that rare talent.

I would not sell the farm to get Halladay, but if the Yanks can get him on the cheap, they should make the move. Joba and Phil might be great, but if you can not totally ignore the now for what might be.

what possible motivation would the blue jays have to just give the yanks halladay on the cheap?

[PFSIKH]

I think the debate here is about winning now vs saving for the unknown future. If the yanks get roy this season they become the favorites to win the world series barring majot injury. Is it worth giving up the unknown future for a real tangible shot at the World series this year and probably another one in the next two years. Do you take the change to put yourself over the top now at the detriment to your team in 4 years. Which could suck anyway.

Yes.

The Yankees are not the Rays. If they are smart and buy players like CC versus flakes like Pavano, they can score a good young and proven pitcher in a few years to take the place of Joba or Hughes.

what possible motivation would the blue jays have to just give the yanks halladay on the cheap?

There is none.

I was surprised the rumors of him staying in the East were started.

I have a difficult time seeing the Jays, already at an economic disadvantage in the East, making it that much more difficult by selling off Halladay to a division rival.

[#27TheDominator]

Dom I agree with you in principle.

Not so much for Halladay, but the Yanks had an opportunity to acquire Johan. A rare talent. Those players you mentioned were good, but none of them were that rare talent.

I would not sell the farm to get Halladay, but if the Yanks can get him on the cheap, they should make the move. Joba and Phil might be great, but if you can not totally ignore the now for what might be.

**** 'em. How'd that Johan deal work out for the Mets? He's a great pitcher, but they are in horrible shape. There are only so many teams these "rare talents" can play for. There are only 4-5 teams that can pay. I'm not paying a king's ransom (or even a queen's) for the opportunity to bargain with a "rare talent" for a monster contract. If they want to come here, sign them in the off-season. They are fully aware the Yankees have the money.

I think the debate here is about winning now vs saving for the unknown future. If the yanks get roy this season they become the favorites to win the world series barring majot injury. Is it worth giving up the unknown future for a real tangible shot at the World series this year and probably another one in the next two years. Do you take the change to put yourself over the top now at the detriment to your team in 4 years. Which could suck anyway.

The Yankees have been the favorites to win the world series several times since 2000. That hasn't worked out so well. The kind of thinking you are proposing brought us the 80's. A decade of winning games and nothing else.

[Guido Monzino]

It's all about do you think we win a ring with Roy this and next year? Do you think we win without him. Some might say go for the ring this year and worry about three years from now three years from now.

Putting Joba in the bullpen and trading for Halladay are two completely separate issues. I only compared the two in that they are very similar in that they are both two ridiculous scenarios that the media is harping on to stir things up. Neither is going to happen. Because neither one makes the least bit of sense. It's a waste of time to even bother discussing things that are not going to happen.

[Arsis]

Putting Joba in the bullpen and trading for Halladay are two completely separate issues. I only compared the two in that they are very similar in that they are both two ridiculous scenarios that the media is harping on to stir things up. Neither is going to happen. Because neither one makes the least bit of sense. It's a waste of time to even bother discussing things that are not going to happen.

My only point was that some people feel Roy gives us a championship this year and that is worth putting off the future. I never said I agreed, just that was the argument I heard for trading for Roy.

[Guido Monzino]

My only point was that some people feel Roy gives us a championship this year and that is worth putting off the future. I never said I agreed, just that was the argument I heard for trading for Roy.

And I agree that Roy on the Yankees would be absolutely fantastic. But the point is that there isn't a chance in hell that:

1) Toronto would trade him to the Yankees, despite what they say. Their "willingness" to trade him here is just posturing designed to drive up their return.

2) The Yankees aren't interested in giving up the huge haul it would take to get him. They've worked hard to rebuild the farm system, no chance they wipe it out again and start over now.

3) I don't really believe that Halladay will be traded until the offseason, if at all.

Again, this is only a topic because people are trying to sell newspapers.

[PFSIKH]

**** 'em. How'd that Johan deal work out for the Mets? He's a great pitcher, but they are in horrible shape. There are only so many teams these "rare talents" can play for. There are only 4-5 teams that can pay. I'm not paying a king's ransom (or even a queen's) for the opportunity to bargain with a "rare talent" for a monster contract. If they want to come here, sign them in the off-season. They are fully aware the Yankees have the money.

Now you want the Yankees to go cheap?

I do not think the Yankees have the fortitude to stick to their guns and hold onto their young prospects.

I think they will talk the talk, but when it comes to walk the walk they will pee themselves and go chasing the FA quick fix.

[#27TheDominator]

Now you want the Yankees to go cheap?

I do not think the Yankees have the fortitude to stick to their guns and hold onto their young prospects.

I think they will talk the talk, but when it comes to walk the walk they will pee themselves and go chasing the FA quick fix.

I don't want them to go cheap. I want them to pay the money, not the prospects. FA quick fix is fine with me, but trading Chamberlain or Hughes for a rental is not. You say that's what they will do and they might, but I don't think they should.

[PFSIKH]

I don't want them to go cheap. I want them to pay the money, not the prospects. FA quick fix is fine with me, but trading Chamberlain or Hughes for a rental is not. You say that's what they will do and they might, but I don't think they should.

That is the Catch 22 they are in.

Do you see the Yankees finally foregoing the pricey FA in order to turn the keys over to a 'hot' prospect? I don't.

[neckdemon]

**** 'em. How'd that Johan deal work out for the Mets? He's a great pitcher, but they are in horrible shape. There are only so many teams these "rare talents" can play for. There are only 4-5 teams that can pay. I'm not paying a king's ransom (or even a queen's) for the opportunity to bargain with a "rare talent" for a monster contract. If they want to come here, sign them in the off-season. They are fully aware the Yankees have the money.

injuries have really killed the mets this year, it has nothing to do with johan santana. i'd like to see how the yanks would do if they lost 3 of their best position players. the yankees without teixeira, a-rod, and jeter. then throw in the loss of their #3 and 4 starter for a while. and then lose a coupla players who were replacing the big 3 they lost. i don't think they'd be doing too good either.

[Vicious89x]

injuries have really killed the mets this year, it has nothing to do with johan santana. i'd like to see how the yanks would do if they lost 3 of their best position players. the yankees without teixeira, a-rod, and jeter. then throw in the loss of their #3 and 4 starter for a while. and then lose a coupla players who were replacing the big 3 they lost. i don't think they'd be doing too good either.

Kinda happened to us last year and we missed the post-season. The only thing it does speak to is the weakness of the farm system

[Arsis]

injuries have really killed the mets this year, it has nothing to do with johan santana. i'd like to see how the yanks would do if they lost 3 of their best position players. the yankees without teixeira, a-rod, and jeter. then throw in the loss of their #3 and 4 starter for a while. and then lose a coupla players who were replacing the big 3 they lost. i don't think they'd be doing too good either.

Nady, A-rod, Posada, Wang, Who else was on the DL this year? So that is 3 of our top guys and our number 2 or 3 starter gone. Bruney our set up guy was on the DL twice. Don't cry and whine like the mets are the only team with injuries.

[Otter]

Jon Heyman just reported that the Mets rejected Toronto's offer of Halladay for Fernando Martinez, Niese, Parnell and Rueban Tejada.

[JonEJet]

That is the Catch 22 they are in.

Do you see the Yankees finally foregoing the pricey FA in order to turn the keys over to a 'hot' prospect? I don't.

And the Sawx do????

Give me a f-ing break