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NFL Network - Top 10 Players Not In HOF


Ryno the Jet

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Moss didn't get there until 1998.

1993: 86 rec, 1,071 yds, 9 TDs

1994: 122 rec, 1,256 yds, 7 TDs

1995: 122 rec, 1,371, 17 TDs

1996: 96 rec, 1,163 yds, 10 TDs

1997: 89 rec, 1,069 yds, 13 TDs

In the five years prior to Moss' arrival, Carter's per season averages were 103 catches for 1,186 yards and 11 touchdowns.

Those stats were from the prime of his career. Very good? Yes. Great? not really. From 87-92 he didn't do jack. And his stats were clearly declining until Moss cam on the scene. Like I said, very good WR - just not great. He had lots of catches but not much in terms of yards, even in his best years. He was a Keyshawn Johnson whose career was extended thanks to Moss.

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Those stats were from the prime of his career. Very good? Yes. Great? not really. From 87-92 he didn't do jack. And his stats were clearly declining until Moss cam on the scene. Like I said, very good WR - just not great. He had lots of catches but not much in terms of yards, even in his best years. He was a Keyshawn Johnson whose career was extended thanks to Moss.

He was declining before Moss got there?

He led the league in touchdowns in two of the previous three years BEFORE Moss' arrival.

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He was declining before Moss got there?

He led the league in touchdowns in two of the previous three years BEFORE Moss' arrival.

I had no idea he put up numbers like that. Damn. I retract my statement. He's a really good player with great stats. Shee-it.

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He was declining before Moss got there?

He led the league in touchdowns in two of the previous three years BEFORE Moss' arrival.

TD's is a relatively useless WR stat. Lots of WR's have large TD numbers thanks to the offense getting the ball close, hence getting them lots of opportunities. You are still avoiding the facts, which are he was a possesion WR. Who was declining in terms of catches and yards before Moss came and opened up the middle more for him.

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I had no idea he put up numbers like that. Damn. I retract my statement. He's a really good player with great stats. Shee-it.

Shane, in 97 Jake Reed had better stats. The guy caught 89 balls and barely got over 1k yards. Troll would be killing a Jets WR for doing that. Look up all his YPC and you will see he was just thrown the ball a lot.

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TD's is a relatively useless WR stat. Lots of WR's have large TD numbers thanks to the offense getting the ball close, hence getting them lots of opportunities. You are still avoiding the facts, which are he was a possesion WR. Who was declining in terms of catches and yards before Moss came and opened up the middle more for him.

And what's wrong with being a possession receiver if you are absolutely ELITE at it? Cris Carter did not drop passes. Ever. If it was in his general vicinity, he caught it, even if he couldn't get two hands on it. And I have never in all my years of watching football, seen a receiver with better awareness. He was the master at getting both feet in.

BTW, in Moss' rookie season, Carter declined in catches, yards, and TDs.

He was NOT "in decline" before Moss got there. He led the league in TDs the previous season. And TDs ARE an important stat for a WR. I don't see how it can be argued that they aren't. Yes, once every five years or so, a Marc Boerichter or Reggie Williams has a fluke season, but it's pretty ****ing rare. To do it consistently, year in and year out, like Carter, is NOT a fluke.

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Shane, in 97 Jake Reed had better stats. The guy caught 89 balls and barely got over 1k yards. Troll would be killing a Jets WR for doing that. Look up all his YPC and you will see he was just thrown the ball a lot.

Never bashed Cotchery or Coles for doing that.

And if they threw in 13 TDs, I'd have been sucking their dicks like they had vanilla flavored jizzm.

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And what's wrong with being a possession receiver if you are absolutely ELITE at it? Cris Carter did not drop passes. Ever. If it was in his general vicinity, he caught it, even if he couldn't get two hands on it. And I have never in all my years of watching football, seen a receiver with better awareness. He was the master at getting both feet in.

BTW, in Moss' rookie season, Carter declined in catches, yards, and TDs.

He was NOT "in decline" before Moss got there. He led the league in TDs the previous season. And TDs ARE an important stat for a WR. I don't see how it can be argued that they aren't. Yes, once every five years or so, a Marc Boerichter or Reggie Williams has a fluke season, but it's pretty ****ing rare. To do it consistently, year in and year out, like Carter, is NOT a fluke.

He cracked the top 10 once in yards in a season in the first 10 years of his career. He was notorious for drops in Phili until he played in a dome. Again, yes he was good, no he was not great and not a first ballot HOF'er. First ballots are for guys that were clearly top 10 in most stats at their position for a legit period of time. He played a long time so his overall stats are very impressive - but he did not dominate the way a Randy Moss or Jerry Rice did.

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He cracked the top 10 once in yards in a season in the first 10 years of his career. He was notorious for drops in Phili until he played in a dome. Again, yes he was good, no he was not great and not a first ballot HOF'er. First ballots are for guys that were clearly top 10 in most stats at their position for a legit period of time. He played a long time so his overall stats are very impressive - but he did not dominate the way a Randy Moss or Jerry Rice did.

I agree that he's not a 1st ballot guy, but I find the whole "ballots" thing to be a bit ridiculous. You are either a Hall of Famer or you aren't. The whole "1st ballot" thing is just a bull**** idea in the minds of pompous sportswriters.

And I have to disagree. In the mid-90's, Cris Carter was dominant. Eight-time Pro Bowler. I'd say that qualifies as a "legit period of time". He was in the top ten of WRs, and, IMO, the top five, for the better part of a decade. I don't think he should be penalized for being a late bloomer. If anything, that makes the numbers that he put up even more amazing.

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I agree that he's not a 1st ballot guy, but I find the whole "ballots" thing to be a bit ridiculous. You are either a Hall of Famer or you aren't. The whole "1st ballot" thing is just a bull**** idea in the minds of pompous sportswriters.

And I have to disagree. In the mid-90's, Cris Carter was dominant. Eight-time Pro Bowler. I'd say that qualifies as a "legit period of time". He was in the top ten of WRs, and, IMO, the top five, for the better part of a decade. I don't think he should be penalized for being a late bloomer. If anything, that makes the numbers that he put up even more amazing.

I think the whole HOF thing in general is BS. It's not easy to gauge a player at all in the NFL because no other sport depends on the rest of the team more for their own personal performance. If Alvin Harper never left as a free agent would we be talking about him as a HOF'er?

I'm not penalizing him for being a late bloomer. What I am penalizing him for is the fact that his best ypc year (post 1991 because he had very little stats to go on before then) is not as good as Michael Irvin's worst. And if you put his stats next to Irvin's you will see the difference. No Irvin did not have as many TD's - but he was the third option for his team in the red zone because the others were so good there.

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I will say this to Carter's benefit. 4th down and 6 and I need to pass for a first down, there are few WR's in that era I would rather have. But the HR threat in his game was missing and there are other WR's who could do both. Those are the guys I want in the HOF.

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I think the whole HOF thing in general is BS. It's not easy to gauge a player at all in the NFL because no other sport depends on the rest of the team more for their own personal performance. If Alvin Harper never left as a free agent would we be talking about him as a HOF'er?

I'm not penalizing him for being a late bloomer. What I am penalizing him for is the fact that his best ypc year (post 1991 because he had very little stats to go on before then) is not as good as Michael Irvin's worst. And if you put his stats next to Irvin's you will see the difference. No Irvin did not have as many TD's - but he was the third option for his team in the red zone because the others were so good there.

Carter scored 130 TDs. I wouldn't put it as a knock against him that he was the team's best red zone option. It's not as if their RBs were inadequate in the red zone. Terry Allen was pretty ****ing good. Leroy Hoard was also pretty solid at the goal-line.

The thing I remember about Irvin is that he caught a lot of bombs, but would be tackled inside the five yard line, which is a big reason why his TD numbers are so low and Emmitt Smith's are so high.

Carter was not a burner. But he is arguably the best possession receiver to ever play the game.

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I will say this to Carter's benefit. 4th down and 6 and I need to pass for a first down, there are few WR's in that era I would rather have. But the HR threat in his game was missing and there are other WR's who could do both. Those are the guys I want in the HOF.

Personally, I think there should be more HR threats in the HOF.

That Bob Hayes was JUST NOW elected is a joke.

I also think that Cliff Branch belongs in Canton.

And that they should take Lynn Swann OUT. That's a ****ing joke. Might as well put in David Tyree.

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Carter scored 130 TDs. I wouldn't put it as a knock against him that he was the team's best red zone option. It's not as if their RBs were inadequate in the red zone. Terry Allen was pretty ****ing good. Leroy Hoard was also pretty solid at the goal-line.

The thing I remember about Irvin is that he caught a lot of bombs, but would be tackled inside the five yard line, which is a big reason why his TD numbers are so low and Emmitt Smith's are so high.

Carter was not a burner. But he is arguably the best possession receiver to ever play the game.

He scored 130 over 17 seasons. He was a great possesion WR. He just couldn't do both. And again, getting back to my original point he was only locked out of the HOF for two years. He will get in, no doubt. The list should have been more for guys that have been locked out longer. These HOF voters all admit they only let certain players get in first ballot and based on that criteria I don't think he is a first ballot guy. Therefor, he shouldn't be on that list quite yet. In another year or two he should be no doubt.

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Personally, I think there should be more HR threats in the HOF.

That Bob Hayes was JUST NOW elected is a joke.

I also think that Cliff Branch belongs in Canton.

And that they should take Lynn Swann OUT. That's a ****ing joke. Might as well put in David Tyree.

Like you said bro, the whole thing is a joke. The game has changed so much and the criteria is so loose I don't know how these guys make up their minds. Andre Reed should be in there if Lynn Swann is. Cliff Branch is a no brainer. I'm not sure about Ken Stabler. I always assumed he was in until I watched that show. Still then I saw his awful years in NO and was like, well maybe not. I think the HOF should be saved for sports like baseball where it's harder to deny whether a guy should be in or not. Football is too hard of a sport to make that decision in. Especially with all of the rule changes they have made, and the advent of a longer schedule.

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He scored 130 over 17 seasons. He was a great possesion WR. He just couldn't do both. And again, getting back to my original point he was only locked out of the HOF for two years. He will get in, no doubt. The list should have been more for guys that have been locked out longer. These HOF voters all admit they only let certain players get in first ballot and based on that criteria I don't think he is a first ballot guy. Therefor, he shouldn't be on that list quite yet. In another year or two he should be no doubt.

I agree with that.

I thought that it was dumb to have Carter and Sharpe on that list when they've only been passed over a couple times.

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Like you said bro, the whole thing is a joke. The game has changed so much and the criteria is so loose I don't know how these guys make up their minds. Andre Reed should be in there if Lynn Swann is. Cliff Branch is a no brainer. I'm not sure about Ken Stabler. I always assumed he was in until I watched that show. Still then I saw his awful years in NO and was like, well maybe not. I think the HOF should be saved for sports like baseball where it's harder to deny whether a guy should be in or not. Football is too hard of a sport to make that decision in. Especially with all of the rule changes they have made, and the advent of a longer schedule.

Well, even in baseball, they still can't get it right. I'd say they actually **** up more in baseball than football. There are some absolute JOKES in the MLB HOF.

The NFL, I think, does a relatively good job, but there will always be inconsistencies. Offensive linemen and defenders don't get a fair shake, and they get a lot of things wrong with skill position players too. The next few years will be telling for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. If compilers like Martin, Bettis, Eddie George, and Tim Brown start getting in, I'll lose a great deal of respect for Canton. The 90's and 2000's were an explosion of statistics. There is a thin line to be walked with all the different guys coming up for induction in the next few years.

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Well, even in baseball, they still can't get it right. I'd say they actually **** up more in baseball than football. There are some absolute JOKES in the MLB HOF.

The NFL, I think, does a relatively good job, but there will always be inconsistencies. Offensive linemen and defenders don't get a fair shake, and they get a lot of things wrong with skill position players too. The next few years will be telling for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. If compilers like Martin, Bettis, Eddie George, and Tim Brown start getting in, I'll lose a great deal of respect for Canton. The 90's and 2000's were an explosion of statistics. There is a thin line to be walked with all the different guys coming up for induction in the next few years.

Troll, I don't want to start a big Pats fighting thread here. But lets just say for the sake of argument that Tom Brady morphs into Chad Pennington after the knee injury. Does he still get in? I'm betting he would. But how can you put him in and Stabler not?

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Troll, I don't want to start a big Pats fighting thread here. But lets just say for the sake of argument that Tom Brady morphs into Chad Pennington after the knee injury. Does he still get in? I'm betting he would. But how can you put him in and Stabler not?

Oh, definitely. Three championships, four SB appearances, the record for TDs in a season. The only way Brady doesn't get in is if he OJs Giselle before his five year wait is up.

An interesting argument to me is Terrell Davis. His career was so brief, but honestly, I think he should get in. For four years, the guy was absolutely ****ing AMAZING. And he won two championships.

Just a pity to me that guys like Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, and Eddie George will get heavy consideration, if not all get in, and TD will never even come close. Though he burned out quickly, there are maybe a handful of backs in history that were as good in a four year time frame as Davis. Call me crazy, but I'd take those four years of TD over ten years of the other three guys.

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Oh, definitely. Three championships, four SB appearances, the record for TDs in a season. The only way Brady doesn't get in is if he OJs Giselle before his five year wait is up.

An interesting argument to me is Terrell Davis. His career was so brief, but honestly, I think he should get in. For four years, the guy was absolutely ****ing AMAZING. And he won two championships.

Just a pity to me that guys like Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, and Eddie George will get heavy consideration, if not all get in, and TD will never even come close. Though he burned out quickly, there are maybe a handful of backs in history that were as good in a four year time frame as Davis. Call me crazy, but I'd take those four years of TD over ten years of the other three guys.

Been there, done that, numeous times-a classic complier with few big games and only 1 great playoff performance with the Jets. More often in playoff games here he was stopped. But suspect all 3 of those guys will get in. Eric Dickerson is in, and while his stats may be great, he was not a HoFer. It's all relative and with RBs and WRs it's all about stats.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199901170den.htm

As to Davis, point of comparison-he had a great game in the 1998 AFC champioship, Martin utterly sucked balls. Davis is comparable to Gale Sayers.

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Oh, definitely. Three championships, four SB appearances, the record for TDs in a season. The only way Brady doesn't get in is if he OJs Giselle before his five year wait is up.

An interesting argument to me is Terrell Davis. His career was so brief, but honestly, I think he should get in. For four years, the guy was absolutely ****ing AMAZING. And he won two championships.

.

And thus the reason he will not even be considered. The wife ( huge Bills fan) is pulling for Andre Reed to make it. He was a huge part of those SB Bills teams. Nice to see he was #5 on the list.

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Been there, done that, numeous times-a classic complier with few big games and only 1 great playoff performance with the Jets. More often in playoff games here he was stopped. But suspect all 3 of those guys will get in. Eric Dickerson is in, and while his stats may be great, he was not a HoFer. It's all relative and with RBs and WRs it's all about stats.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199901170den.htm

As to Davis, point of comparison-he had a great game in the 1998 AFC champioship, Martin utterly sucked balls. Davis is comparable to Gale Sayers.

Davis also had a better team around him, including a HOF QB and a future HOF TE. Martin? Not so much. Also, lots of Jags piled up yard behind that same OL long after TD was gone.

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Joe Klecko deserves to be in the HOF before any of these guys on the list are even mentioned. Not because he was a Jet, but because he was a great passionate player who gave a lot to the game.

i love Joe Klecko but he's been overrated over the years. No ring, no HOF. Also FWIW Gastineau was a chuckle head but if you asked all the head coaches of the era who would you rather have starting for you on sunday, Gastineau or Klecko, I believe most would pick the faster, more athletic, more impact player, and that's Gastineau not Klecko. Obviously #99 was a fruitcake off the field (and sometimes on it) but still he was a premium athlete, a sack master who gets no credit. Klecko was all heart but he was often out weighed and overmatched.

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Oh, definitely. Three championships, four SB appearances, the record for TDs in a season. The only way Brady doesn't get in is if he OJs Giselle before his five year wait is up.

Haha, awesome.

The HOF is a joke, largely because the criteria to get in involves the Pro-Bowl, which is an even bigger ****ing joke.

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