Its Official..Even Rex cant fix 'The Ghoul'

[bitonti]

I think its pretty safe to say McFadden is a bust. Dorsey as well.

SO let's imagine Al Davis decides to do something crazy and cut Darren McFadden tomorrow.

DMC is now on the open market... he's worked out and he's still running that same 4.3 he ran 2 years ago... he's 23 years old... would you be opposed to the Jets signing him?

After all... who would want a BUST on their team? NO ONE would want a BUST!

If you answer this question honestly hopefully you will see what I am trying to say. DMC has value and upside still therefore is NOT a BUST at least not yet.

***

NO offense but I don't think you guys truly understand what a BUST is.

Dimitrius Underwood went to the mental institution twice, escapes and tried to kill himself. He never gave anything of value to anyone as a football player. That's a BUST.

Lawrence Phillips drags his girlfriend down a flight of stairs and was even more terrible as a running back than he was as a human being. That's a BUST.

meanwhile, "KING BUST" a.k.a. DRob started 80+ games including several playoff victories but never lived up to draft selection and his knee gave out. That's a DISSPOINTMENT.

there is a big difference between Bust and Dissapointment... and not just in my mind.

you guys live in this world of extremes where a player is either amazing or a bust... I don't see it that way. There's alot of gray area... if a player has reached a point where he's still in his first few seasons and he can't get an NFL contract that's a BUST. If a guy plays for 10 or 15 years but just didn't get it done for the first 3, that's NOT a BUST!

[Smashmouth]

its funny you threw 'non QB' in there, because when you take away QBs there's not alot of players left to choose from. some years like 1999 there were 3 QBs taken in the top 6.

however players selected at 6 overall or higher, in the last 10 years, who did not have good starts to their careers but bounced back:

RB Ricky Williams 1999

RB Cedric Benson 2005

TE Vernon Davis 2006

Vernon Davis is a notable name here as he was also known as a physical freak but also an "bust" who just had 3 touchdowns last week.

from the 2008 draft it should also be noted that Chris Long 2 overall, Darren McFadden 4 overall and Glenn Dorsey 5 overall are not playing any better than Vernon GHolston 6 overall.

Are Chris Long, Darren McFadden and Glenn Dorsey also busts? Well they might be if you want to apply labels early.

The truth is it's far too early to tell, 7 games into the 2009 season, whether or not 23 year old 2008 draft pick Vernon Gholston is a bust.

Anyone who insists otherwise doesn't understand the definition of the word bust.

3-5 years minimum it takes to fully judge a draft pick. That's industry standard. The Jets are in year 2 of Gholston's contract and he's still younger than most rookies. He's a boy amongst men. HE will mature and when he does I expect none of you to own up to the bashing... at least no more than a cursory "glad I was wrong" but not the constant obsession and harping that is happening now... after a 38-0 road win.

Bit Please stop. The guy is a bad football player and its not only about scheme or learning the NFL the guy simply is NOT a good football player. He has no moves, he cant get off blocks, he misses tackles, and he plays totally flat footed not utilizing his speed. He is so off balance at times people run right by him.

Saying it takes 3 to 5 years to judge a draft pick is a ridiculous statement totally ridiculous, thats more than half the average NFL players life span in the league. Vernon Gholston gives new meaning to the word bust hes not a bust hes a total disaster.

Dont give me the garbage "he must be playing well because Rex has him on the field" excuse because thats nonsense. The only reason he is on the field at all is because of his salary and I would be willing to bet anything Rex promised Woody he would do his best to turn Gholston into a player. Rex gave him his shot and VG has failed in a big way.

When this guy gets cut he will be out of football. He is that bad. You really need to get over the Muscles, Speed and Strength none of which translates onto an NFL football field for Vernon Gholston.

[Matt39]

SO let's imagine Al Davis decides to do something crazy and cut Darren McFadden tomorrow.

DMC is now on the open market... he's worked out and he's still running that same 4.3 he ran 2 years ago... he's 23 years old... would you be opposed to the Jets signing him?

After all... who would want a BUST on their team? NO ONE would want a BUST!

If you answer this question honestly hopefully you will see what I am trying to say. DMC has value and upside still therefore is NOT a BUST at least not yet.

***

NO offense but I don't think you guys truly understand what a BUST is.

Dimitrius Underwood went to the mental institution twice, escapes and tried to kill himself. He never gave anything of value to anyone as a football player. That's a BUST.

Lawrence Phillips drags his girlfriend down a flight of stairs and was even more terrible as a running back than he was as a human being. That's a BUST.

meanwhile, "KING BUST" a.k.a. DRob started 80+ games including several playoff victories but never lived up to draft selection and his knee gave out. That's a DISSPOINTMENT.

there is a big difference between Bust and Dissapointment... and not just in my mind.

you guys live in this world of extremes where a player is either amazing or a bust... I don't see it that way. There's alot of gray area... if a player has reached a point where he's still in his first few seasons and he can't get an NFL contract that's a BUST. If a guy plays for 10 or 15 years but just didn't get it done for the first 3, that's NOT a BUST!

I always thought McFadden was going to be garbage anyway. He fumbles pretty much every other time he's touches the ball, goes down on first contact and has zero moves. If straight line speed = upside or can bench a lot = upside then I guess you're right.

Dorsey looks like another Drob out there. Drafting dissapointments in the top 5 hurt your team too.

[bitonti]

I too agree it too early to say he is a full on bust.

But let me ask you this....

Can you honsetly say that you've seen anything from Vernon that makes you think he's not going to be a bust? Because one decent game against Tenn. is not doing it for me and I've tried to believe in the guy and defend him. But when its all said and done the knock on VG entering the draft seems to be spot on, he's just not a Football player.

I hope you're right and it clicks before he leaves the Jets, but there is nothing that makes me believe the light will turn on.

let me first be clear I am not some sort of VG fanboy. I don't have a Gholston Jersey or anything like that... this is a clear distinction to make... I thought DRob was gonna be really good and was wrong... that was 8 years ago and I've learned alot since then...

with Gholston im being more conservative... All im really willing to say is "he could be good" or it's "too soon to tell." - that's really my point, not that VG will be the next Mario Williams but that it's just too soon to write him off. It's actually kinda ignorant to throw the word bust around like this... that's my larger beef.

to answer your question honsetly the upside on VG

-He does a great job holding the point of attack - can not only stand up the double but he tends to attract it.

-He can play the run, when everyone said he couldn't.

-He knocked a couple QB's silly in preseason. Not the regular season obviously but it's a start (see Clowney, David).

-the Chris Johnson play was basically a TD saver, if not a game saver. Heck of a hustle play that 9 out of 10 NFL outside linebackers lack the speed to make (let alone 270 pound outside linebackers)

-pedigree: I saw this player embarass Jake Long. I saw this player break Mike Vrabel's all time sack record at Ohio State. To say he doesn't know how to pass rush ignores his ridiculous college production. Remember DROB didn't have college production... and that was a key difference. At the time I explained it away but that was wrong. VG not only had good college production he had FIRST RATE production at a FIRST RATE football school. that coupled with his physical gifts make giving up on him stupid... just as stupid as if Al Davis gave up on Darren McFadden.

[Smashmouth]

SO let's imagine Al Davis decides to do something crazy and cut Darren McFadden tomorrow.

DMC is now on the open market... he's worked out and he's still running that same 4.3 he ran 2 years ago... he's 23 years old... would you be opposed to the Jets signing him?

After all... who would want a BUST on their team? NO ONE would want a BUST!

If you answer this question honestly hopefully you will see what I am trying to say. DMC has value and upside still therefore is NOT a BUST at least not yet.

***

NO offense but I don't think you guys truly understand what a BUST is.

Dimitrius Underwood went to the mental institution twice, escapes and tried to kill himself. He never gave anything of value to anyone as a football player. That's a BUST.

Lawrence Phillips drags his girlfriend down a flight of stairs and was even more terrible as a running back than he was as a human being. That's a BUST.

meanwhile, "KING BUST" a.k.a. DRob started 80+ games including several playoff victories but never lived up to draft selection and his knee gave out. That's a DISSPOINTMENT.

there is a big difference between Bust and Dissapointment... and not just in my mind.

you guys live in this world of extremes where a player is either amazing or a bust... I don't see it that way. There's alot of gray area... if a player has reached a point where he's still in his first few seasons and he can't get an NFL contract that's a BUST. If a guy plays for 10 or 15 years but just didn't get it done for the first 3, that's NOT a BUST!

Mcfadden is another joke. Would he be the guy you want running the football in the 4th Quarter of a hard fought close playoffs game ? I would'nt he runs like a P###Y and Fumbles too much hes going to get his 100 yard games ( not consistently) and thats fine but I dont want him on my football team.

[bitonti]

I always thought McFadden was going to be garbage anyway. He fumbles pretty much every other time he's touches the ball, goes down on first contact and has zero moves. If straight line speed = upside or can bench a lot = upside then I guess you're right.

you are telling me honestly, right now, today you wouldn't take DMC on the Jets roster? this team just lost Leon Washington, they have no 3rd down backs... you don't want a guy who runs 4.27 and ripped up the SEC like Hershal Walker?

[Matt39]

you are telling me honestly, right now, today you wouldn't take DMC on the Jets roster? this team just lost Leon Washington, they have no 3rd down backs... you don't want a guy who runs 4.27 and ripped up the SEC like Hershal Walker?

I want no part of McFadden. He isnt a good running back. I dont care what conference he ripped up. That means absolutely nothing.

He ran through huge holes at Arkansas. He has zero football moves and cant hold onto the football.

This whole he "tore up the SEC" thing or "was a beast at a bigtime football program" I really dont think means anything. Reggie Bush sucks too, but at least he has decent moves. McFadden is a total stiff with chicken legs.

There are way too many players that came out of nowhere in the NFL.

[afosomf]

Mcfadden is another joke. Would he be the guy you want running the football in the 4th Quarter of a hard fought close playoffs game ? I would'nt he runs like a P###Y and Fumbles too much hes going to get his 100 yard games ( not consistently) and thats fine but I dont want him on my football team.

ummm

being drafted by oak killed DMC's career

best thing for him is to be cut or traded for a 4th rd pick

[Matt39]

ummm

being drafted by oak killed DMC's career

best thing for him is to be cut or traded for a 4th rd pick

McFadden is terrible. Yes, the Raiders are a disaster, but he's not a good back. What is McFadden good at? Everything I thought about him prior to the draft looks like what he is.

[Smashmouth]

to answer your question honsetly the upside on VG

-He does a great job holding the point of attack - can not only stand up the double but he tends to attract it.

-He can play the run, when everyone said he couldn't.

-He knocked a couple QB's silly in preseason. Not the regular season obviously but it's a start (see Clowney, David).

-the Chris Johnson play was basically a TD saver, if not a game saver. Heck of a hustle play that 9 out of 10 NFL outside linebackers lack the speed to make (let alone 270 pound outside linebackers)

-pedigree: I saw this player embarass Jake Long. I saw this player break Mike Vrabel's all time sack record at Ohio State. To say he doesn't know how to pass rush ignores his ridiculous college production. Remember DROB didn't have college production... and that was a key difference. At the time I explained it away but that was wrong. VG not only had good college production he had FIRST RATE production at a FIRST RATE football school. that coupled with his physical gifts make giving up on him stupid... just as stupid as if Al Davis gave up on Darren McFadden.

You are 100 % fanboy . Vernon Gholston does NON of the things you mention Good. How you can make the statement he knocked a QB silly on a broken play where he went unblocked is insane. How you are still even using the preseason as an example of a player who is in his second year is also insane. Saying he plays the run well whne he has 6 tackles is .....

Bit Im not sure WTF your watching on sundays. The Chris Johnson play was garbage play by VG at the line of scrimmage. If the Safties dont slow down Johnson VG gets no wheres near him so get over it.

[bitonti]

Saying it takes 3 to 5 years to judge a draft pick is a ridiculous statement totally ridiculous, thats more than half the average NFL players life span in the league.

former Jet and Eagle pro bowl defensive end Hugh Douglas was interviewed not to long ago and they asked him how long did it take him to become comfortable playing defensive end in the NFL? What point did he feel like it was a job he could do day-in and day-out and do it well?

He replied 5 years. He was only on the Jets for 4 years.

And don't bother looking up his stats, this isn't about stats. Bill Parcells thought Hugh Douglas wouldn't amount to much and traded him. That was incorrect... so it's not just message board posters who write people off too soon... it's even the best minds in the sport. He had 4 years to study and he made a mistake.

most NFL players are boys coming out of school, and few can compete with the men on the field... especially along the defensive line. The NFL DLineman has to face up to 30+ year old wiley vets who have had years in a strength and conditioning program, all of whom were studs in college.

There aren't alot of "Instant impact" defensive linemen. Julius Peppers was one exception and he was truly a freak. look at the history it takes years to learn the tricks of the trade.

3-5 years is a realistic time frame to judge a player. I personally think it should be the whole 5 years... 1 year and a half (7 or 8 total games) is not a realistic time frame.

[Smashmouth]

McFadden is terrible. Yes, the Raiders are a disaster, but he's not a good back. What is McFadden good at? Everything I thought about him prior to the draft looks like what he is.

I had the exact same thoughts on him comming out of the draft. Same thoughts I had on Vernon Gholston.

[bitonti]

You are 100 % fanboy . Vernon Gholston does NON of the things you mention Good. How you can make the statement he knocked a QB silly on a broken play where he went unblocked is insane. How you are still even using the preseason as an example of a player who is in his second year is also insane. Saying he plays the run well whne he has 6 tackles is .....

Bit Im not sure WTF your watching on sundays. The Chris Johnson play was garbage play by VG at the line of scrimmage. If the Safties dont slow down Johnson VG gets no wheres near him so get over it.

dude we could fight about this all day but you've made your mind up.

by the way guys come unblocked in the regular season too it happens every sunday. They don't take away sacks because a guy didn't get blocked.

[JustInFudge]

let me first be clear I am not some sort of VG fanboy. I don't have a Gholston Jersey or anything like that... this is a clear distinction to make... I thought DRob was gonna be really good and was wrong... that was 8 years ago and I've learned alot since then...

with Gholston im being more conservative... All im really willing to say is "he could be good" or it's "too soon to tell." - that's really my point, not that VG will be the next Mario Williams but that it's just too soon to write him off. It's actually kinda ignorant to throw the word bust around like this... that's my larger beef.

to answer your question honsetly the upside on VG

-He does a great job holding the point of attack - can not only stand up the double but he tends to attract it.

-He can play the run, when everyone said he couldn't.

-He knocked a couple QB's silly in preseason. Not the regular season obviously but it's a start (see Clowney, David).

-the Chris Johnson play was basically a TD saver, if not a game saver. Heck of a hustle play that 9 out of 10 NFL outside linebackers lack the speed to make (let alone 270 pound outside linebackers)

-pedigree: I saw this player embarass Jake Long. I saw this player break Mike Vrabel's all time sack record at Ohio State. To say he doesn't know how to pass rush ignores his ridiculous college production. Remember DROB didn't have college production... and that was a key difference. At the time I explained it away but that was wrong. VG not only had good college production he had FIRST RATE production at a FIRST RATE football school. that coupled with his physical gifts make giving up on him stupid... just as stupid as if Al Davis gave up on Darren McFadden.

Again, I'm not saying give up on him because I happen to be a rational Jets fan (yes there are a couple of us out there). I guess my point is more, I cant see VG ever being what we drafted him to be. He might be a decent player in this league if the lights turn on. But I cant see him being the player he was at OSU.

And this McFadden talk is crazy. I'd love him on my team. How can you blame any player on the Raiders for sucking? And to say he runs like a *****, like smash said, is nuts. He runs hard and thats why he is often hurt. He just cant hold on to the ball, and thats a problem...but a correctable one. I'd take him with our lack of depth.

[Vudu]

Put McFadden on this team and he's a star.

[Matt39]

McFadden is awful. Im sorry. Chicken legs, zero moves, down on first contact and cant hold onto the football. Sign me up!

Mayock didnt even have DMC in his top 20.

[Smashmouth]

former Jet and Eagle pro bowl defensive end Hugh Douglas was interviewed not to long ago and they asked him how long did it take him to become comfortable playing defensive end in the NFL? What point did he feel like it was a job he could do day-in and day-out and do it well?

He replied 5 years. He was only on the Jets for 4 years.

And don't bother looking up his stats, this isn't about stats. Bill Parcells thought Hugh Douglas wouldn't amount to much and traded him. That was incorrect... so it's not just message board posters who write people off too soon... it's even the best minds in the sport. He had 4 years to study and he made a mistake.

most NFL players are boys coming out of school, and few can compete with the men on the field... especially along the defensive line. The NFL DLineman has to face up to 30+ year old wiley vets who have had years in a strength and conditioning program, all of whom were studs in college.

There aren't alot of "Instant impact" defensive linemen. Julius Peppers was one exception and he was truly a freak. look at the history it takes years to learn the tricks of the trade.

3-5 years is a realistic time frame to judge a player. I personally think it should be the whole 5 years... 1 year and a half (7 or 8 total games) is not a realistic time frame.

Bit its NOT about stats its about being afootball player. Im NOT a stat person but at some point when you have 6 taclkles and no assists through 5 games and no QB pressures you have to take notice.

Hugh Douglas may not have been comfortable but he was still playing at a high level. VG has never played even one play at a high level no less a game or a season.

Im making my point on a bust situation you dont wait 4 or 5 years to label a guy like VG a a bust. He showed signs of being a bust in year one. if you watched him on college you would have been able to see tell tale signes of his lack of ability. The Jake Long plays were the best plays of his life. He was the type of football player in college who would be completely invisible for entire games then make a sack or 2 and people would be claiming greatness 2 plays in a football game do NOT dictate player talent. Most of his sacks came from good positioning and mismatches aganist players who never even sniffed an NFL roster.

[Matt39]

For players like Gholston and McFadden, I always thought it was fairly clear they wouldnt be good NFL players while they were in college. People get blown away by the combine numbers too easily.

Look at Ray Rice, played at freakin Rutgers, not the SEC...but he's got tree trunks for legs and the kid is a beast.

[Smashmouth]

dude we could fight about this all day but you've made your mind up.

by the way guys come unblocked in the regular season too it happens every sunday. They don't take away sacks because a guy didn't get blocked.

They dont claim greatness (plays) either.

JIF you would want that fumble machine ? Your Kidding right ? Sure Oakland is a joke no doubt but McFadden is not even the best RB on the Raiders

[JustInFudge]

For players like Gholston and McFadden, I always thought it was fairly clear they wouldnt be good NFL players while they were in college. People get blown away by the combine numbers too easily.

Look at Ray Rice, played at freakin Rutgers, not the SEC...but he's got tree trunks for legs and the kid is a beast.

You're not taking into account the teams they are playing for Matt. The Ravens have one of the best run blocking teams in the game. And now have the vertical game to compliment. Its no wonder Ray Rice is playing out of his mind in that offense.

McFadden on a different team would be a solid player IMO.

[ZachEY]

its funny you threw 'non QB' in there, because when you take away QBs there's not alot of players left to choose from. some years like 1999 there were 3 QBs taken in the top 6.

QB is a wholly different beast, come on... we all know that.

The truth is it's far too early to tell, 7 games into the 2009 season, whether or not 23 year old 2008 draft pick Vernon Gholston is a bust.

Anyone who insists otherwise doesn't understand the definition of the word bust.

Yes, it's impossible to say how he will turn out with any certainty. However, it's very possible to speculate based on performance. And thus far, unlike those players you mentioned earlier, Vernon Gholston has not once flashed ability. You said yourself, the best

You're definition of bust is very accomodating for players. Thus far, Gholston has been a monumental bust. We've invested a high pick, and a ton of money in him already. Here's the question... Do you think that Mike Tannenbaum got what he's hoped for in the pick? Do you think this was part of his plan? Draft a player at #6 overall, give him a 50 mil contract, and have him be completely irrelevent for a season and a half.

3-5 years minimum it takes to fully judge a draft pick. That's industry standard. The Jets are in year 2 of Gholston's contract and he's still younger than most rookies. He's a boy amongst men. HE will mature and when he does I expect none of you to own up to the bashing... at least no more than a cursory "glad I was wrong" but not the constant obsession and harping that is happening now... after a 38-0 road win.

Maybe you can't *fully* judge him, but based on what we have seen, which is a fairly large sample size when compared to the average NFL career, he flat out sucks. As far as 'owning up to it', you mean like DROB, where you said, 'oops', and then fell in love with the next prospect?

If I'm wrong about Gholston, it will be completely out of left field, because right now, he's not even good enough to get playing time over an UDFA. I don't give a crap about his age, if that were an issue, he should have stayed in school. Getting off blocks isn't wine, it doesn't get better with age.

[CoachTsurfing]

We wera all fooled by the media hype,don't feel alone

Not all of us. I wanted to stay clear of this guy. And quite a few other people on here did also. Once he was picked, I hoped he would turn into a great nfl player. I wanted to believe.

[JustInFudge]

They dont claim greatness (plays) either.

JIF you would want that fumble machine ? Your Kidding right ? Sure Oakland is a joke no doubt but McFadden is not even the best RB on the Raiders

I'd take him. He's got elite talent and is stuck on a terrible team. He fumbles, but thats correctable and thats his only flaw besides not being able to stay on the field. Could you imagine his game breaking ability behind this line?

If you've watch DMC when he's healthy, he's every as adverstised just careless with out the ball....kind like our QB. I'd definitely give it a shot. The kid is really good. Oakland is just the worst franchise in the league.

[Matt39]

You're not taking into account the teams they are playing for Matt. The Ravens have one of the best run blocking teams in the game. And now have the vertical game to compliment. Its no wonder Ray Rice is playing out of his mind in that offense.

McFadden on a different team would be a solid player IMO.

I just never saw the hype with McFadden. Too many red flags in his game for him to be a top 5 pick. He just doesnt have the lower body strength or great vision.

[The Crusher]

I'd take him. He's got elite talent and is stuck on a terrible team. He fumbles, but thats correctable and thats his only flaw besides not being able to stay on the field. Could you imagine his game breaking ability behind this line?

If you've watch DMC when he's healthy, he's every as adverstised just careless with out the ball....kind like our QB. I'd definitely give it a shot. The kid is really good. Oakland is just the worst franchise in the league.

DMC's fumbilitis is fixable ( T. Barber), The Ghost lack of heart is terminal.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I just never saw the hype with McFadden. Too many red flags in his game for him to be a top 5 pick. He just doesnt have the lower body strength or great vision.

Remember the people who compared him to AP? Man, what were they smoking?

[bitonti]

Again, I'm not saying give up on him because I happen to be a rational Jets fan (yes there are a couple of us out there). I guess my point is more, I cant see VG ever being what we drafted him to be. He might be a decent player in this league if the lights turn on. But I cant see him being the player he was at OSU.

.

Cards fans probably said the same thing about Calvin Pace.

[ZachEY]

ok so by your logic, Chris Long, Darren McFadden, Glenn Dorsey are also busts from the same draft?

the only non-busts in the top 6 were Jake Long and Matt Ryan?

All of those players, except Gholston, are at least on the field.

Chris Long had 4 sacks and a FF in his rookie year.

McFadden has 5 TDs thus far.

Dorsey has also put up better numbers and was a starter, unlike Gholston who doesn't see the field.

The names you put out only further prove how bad Gholston is. Because these guys are 'underperforming', but they're a significant improvement above what we've got.

[JustInFudge]

I just never saw the hype with McFadden. Too many red flags in his game for him to be a top 5 pick. He just doesnt have the lower body strength or great vision.

I watched a lot of him in college and neither of those things were issues. He played Qb and ran the wildcat...you have to have good field vision to take snaps in that offense, especially because he actually threw out of the wildcat.

Again, I think DMC would be a different story on a different team, pending he could stay healthy. RB is a position that you often see a change of scenery can help a player. There are a couple of examples in the league right now.

DMC's fumbilitis is fixable ( T. Barber), The Ghost lack of heart is terminal.

This unfortunately is looking more and more like the truth every week.

[Smashmouth]

Cards fans probably said the same thing about Calvin Pace.

Calvin Pace can play football.

[afosomf]

McFadden is awful. Im sorry. Chicken legs, zero moves, down on first contact and cant hold onto the football. Sign me up!

Mayock didnt even have DMC in his top 20.

and R moss was terrible in Oak...your point?

[Smashmouth]

All of those players, except Gholston, are at least on the field.

Chris Long had 4 sacks and a FF in his rookie year.

McFadden has 5 TDs thus far.

Dorsey has also put up better numbers and was a starter, unlike Gholston who doesn't see the field.

The names you put out only further prove how bad Gholston is. Because these guys are 'underperforming', but they're a significant improvement above what we've got.

Exactly.

[ZachEY]

NO offense but I don't think you guys truly understand what a BUST is.

Dimitrius Underwood went to the mental institution twice, escapes and tried to kill himself. He never gave anything of value to anyone as a football player. That's a BUST.

Lawrence Phillips drags his girlfriend down a flight of stairs and was even more terrible as a running back than he was as a human being. That's a BUST.

meanwhile, "KING BUST" a.k.a. DRob started 80+ games including several playoff victories but never lived up to draft selection and his knee gave out. That's a DISSPOINTMENT.

there is a big difference between Bust and Dissapointment... and not just in my mind.

you guys live in this world of extremes where a player is either amazing or a bust... I don't see it that way. There's alot of gray area... if a player has reached a point where he's still in his first few seasons and he can't get an NFL contract that's a BUST. If a guy plays for 10 or 15 years but just didn't get it done for the first 3, that's NOT a BUST!

No, again, that's your ridiculous definition of a bust.

You have to be a mental patient or a crook to be a bust, it has nothing to do with actual performance.

Sorry, in bitonti-land just playing a few snaps makes you not a bust, but very few people live in bitonti-land, I think it's just one person. The rest of the NFL fan population believes a bust is someone who does not merit their selection or their contract. The laws of bitonti-land don't apply everywhere else, including your babying definition of bust.

[Smashmouth]

and R moss was terrible in Oak...your point?

When did Oakland ever have a QB to throw to Moss or an O-Line to protect said crappy QB's ? A running back gets the football and runs with it, if a reciever is open and the ball does not get there you can hardly blame the reciever. Plus Randy Moss has an attitude and wanted out of oakland in a bad way.

[Matt39]

and R moss was terrible in Oak...your point?

Randy Moss was the best at his position before the Raiders.

I just never understood the McFadden hype. He went down on first contact in college...that's the kiss of death for an NFL back. He runs very stiff and really has very little, if any moves, in tight space.

In college he ran through enormous holes toward the wide side of the field beating defenders to the sideline. Obviously, that doesnt work in the NFL.