Its Official..Even Rex cant fix 'The Ghoul'

[ZachEY]

Randy Moss was the best at his position before the Raiders.

I just never understood the McFadden hype. He went down on first contact in college...that's the kiss of death for an NFL back. He runs very stiff and really has very little, if any moves, in tight space.

In college he ran through enormous holes toward the wide side of the field beating defenders to the sideline. Obviously, that doesnt work in the NFL.

Moss sucked in Oakland because he didn't try. Plain and simple. Do we really think McFadden is not trying?

[afosomf]

When did Oakland ever have a QB to throw to Moss or an O-Line to protect said crappy QB's ? A running back gets the football and runs with it, if a reciever is open and the ball does not get there you can hardly blame the reciever. Plus Randy Moss has an attitude and wanted out of oakland in a bad way.

oak has terrible coaching (al d hello) and a terrible OL

and yes a gawd awful QB

how would u propose that DMC flourish..when moss couldn't?

[Matt39]

Moss sucked in Oakland because he didn't try. Plain and simple. Do we really think McFadden is not trying?

I honestly think he's perfect for that team.

[Matt39]

JaMarcus Russell plays. Is he not a bust?

[bitonti]

JaMarcus Russell plays. Is he not a bust?

technically not yet... but a player who is in his sort of physical condition is a big warning sign. if VG were in the shape that JR is in I would tend to agree that the player was worthless.

of course JR was fat before the draft so it's not exactly news.

****

EY - vinny testaverde - BUST?

[Smashmouth]

Moss sucked in Oakland because he didn't try. Plain and simple. Do we really think McFadden is not trying?

Mcfadden is definetely trying hes just a all or none type back in the NFL. Those guys never seem to pan out. The best thing you can do as an NFL back is be consistent. Mcfadden is the type of back who will have 10 carries for 40 yards with one of the carries going for 20 . What does that do for your team when trying to control the ball ?

College football hype is at a bigger level now than 30 or 40 years ago just like everything else. I do belive GM's are very influenced by the media and the Hype and keep in mind owners love hype . Im sure owners have a big say in who gets drafted with the early picks Flash puts asses in seats.

[bitonti]

Calvin Pace can play football.

yeah... now. Go look at his tape from year 2 you will find a very different picture.

[Smashmouth]

JaMarcus Russell plays. Is he not a bust?

Hes in the VG category. But who didnt see that disaster coming as well.

[Smashmouth]

yeah... now. Go look at his tape from year 2 you will find a very different picture.

Sorry Bit I dont think I will. I have seen VG do things that are inexplicable and i find myself asking What in the hell is he doing. Im sure Calvin pace has always been an agressive player who just did not start making plays until he started making adjustments. Tell me what Adjustments has VG made.

[bitonti]

Sorry Bit I dont think I will. I have seen VG do things that are inexplicable and i find myself asking What in the hell is he doing. Im sure Calvin pace has always been an agressive player who just did not start making plays until he started making adjustments. Tell me what Adjustments has VG made.

what a suprise - a guy who wants his football players to be instantly great doesn't have the patience to look at the past.

im still waiting for anyone to answer a simple question: was Vinny Testaverde a bust?

[JustInFudge]

When did Oakland ever have a QB to throw to Moss or an O-Line to protect said crappy QB's ? A running back gets the football and runs with it, if a reciever is open and the ball does not get there you can hardly blame the reciever. Plus Randy Moss has an attitude and wanted out of oakland in a bad way.

And you dont think that DMC playing with the worst QB in the league affects the lanes that he sees? Dont you think every player wants out of Oakland in a bad way?

I think you can slice this argument both ways.

Randy Moss was the best at his position before the Raiders.

I just never understood the McFadden hype. He went down on first contact in college...that's the kiss of death for an NFL back. He runs very stiff and really has very little, if any moves, in tight space.

In college he ran through enormous holes toward the wide side of the field beating defenders to the sideline. Obviously, that doesnt work in the NFL.

This is false. Plenty of moves, definitely can move the pack, definitely breaks tackles. He ran in every fashion a RB can run and did it successfully.

Be honest, how much of him did you actually watch in college? One of my best friends is an Arkansas alum and we watch NCAA every Sat together, I saw almost every game the kid played, he did it all my man.

Moss sucked in Oakland because he didn't try. Plain and simple. Do we really think McFadden is not trying?

I dont understand the hate. When he's in, besides his fumbling problem, he's good.

He averages over 4 yards per carry while consistently seeing 8/9 in the box and he average 10 yards per catch. He has both a receiving and a rushing TD this season.

Again, if healthy on a competent team that has somewhat of a threat to throw, my bet is DMC would be very good if he can stay on the field and fix his fumbling issues.

[JohnnyHector]

im still waiting for anyone to answer a simple question: was Vinny Testaverde a bust?

Answer this simple question: Are you seriously comparing the development of a QB at the pro level to that of an OLB?

[ZachEY]

EY - vinny testaverde - BUST?

No. He didn't live up to what some had hoped, but he was a solid to good starter for a long time in this league.

It would be a miracle if VG could touch the type of career that VT had.

[ZachEY]

I dont understand the hate. When he's in, besides his fumbling problem, he's good.

He averages over 4 yards per carry while consistently seeing 8/9 in the box and he average 10 yards per catch. He has both a receiving and a rushing TD this season.

Again, if healthy on a competent team that has somewhat of a threat to throw, my bet is DMC would be very good if he can stay on the field and fix his fumbling issues.

I'm not saying he sucks, just that he's got the Reggie Bush thing going... Another dominant college guy who's lacking the skills to be an NFL everydown back... victim of the hype machine.

Bush has been utilized in another way, and I think that needs to be done more w/ McFadden.

[Smashmouth]

what a suprise - a guy who wants his football players to be instantly great doesn't have the patience to look at the past.

im still waiting for anyone to answer a simple question: was Vinny Testaverde a bust?

Who the hell is asking for instantly great Bit >???? I just want to see something, anything. Give me a break man Im not in the mold of needing to see greatness right of the bat so please dont put me in that category.

[Matt39]

And you dont think that DMC playing with the worst QB in the league affects the lanes that he sees? Dont you think every player wants out of Oakland in a bad way?

I think you can slice this argument both ways.

This is false. Plenty of moves, definitely can move the pack, definitely breaks tackles. He ran in every fashion a RB can run and did it successfully.

Be honest, how much of him did you actually watch in college? One of my best friends is an Arkansas alum and we watch NCAA every Sat together, I saw almost every game the kid played, he did it all my man.

I dont understand the hate. When he's in, besides his fumbling problem, he's good.

He averages over 4 yards per carry while consistently seeing 8/9 in the box and he average 10 yards per catch. He has both a receiving and a rushing TD this season.

Again, if healthy on a competent team that has somewhat of a threat to throw, my bet is DMC would be very good if he can stay on the field and fix his fumbling issues.

I tried to watch him as much as I could in college. I really was never that impressed. Played in the wildcat were defenders were froze and just used his speed to get to the outside. In tight spaces, I never saw anything that looked like a top 5 pick. Once his legs were touched, he went down.

I think he'd be better suited to play WR in the NFL. he has the weirdest running back body I've ever seen. No 'mo.

[ZachEY]

Also, unlike many players, VG has the good fortune of playing on a strong defense, and while, on one hand, that limits his opportunities, it also gives him the benefit of not having to do everything. In other words, when he's on (I should say, when he would be on) the field, he can just do what he has to do, and not worry about making up for other players mistakes.

There are plenty of situations in this defense where we could use a guy like him to do nothing but 'pin his ears back' and rush the passer. Not so much with VG.

[JustInFudge]

I'm not saying he sucks, just that he's got the Reggie Bush thing going... Another dominant college guy who's lacking the skills to be an NFL everydown back... victim of the hype machine.

Bush has been utilized in another way, and I think that needs to be done more w/ McFadden.

I think the Reggie Bush hype was a whole different level. I've never seen hype like that before...I dont think DMC was ever considered the best player in the draft.

FWIW, I'm a Reggie Bush fan right now because he made 2 HUGE plays that helped the Saints win Sunday.

And I'm not saying DMC is good, great or a bust. I just think on a different team, we'd see a different player.

[ZachEY]

I think the Reggie Bush hype was a whole different level. I've never seen hype like that before...I dont think DMC was ever considered the best player in the draft.

FWIW, I'm a Reggie Bush fan right now because he made 2 HUGE plays that helped the Saints win Sunday.

And I'm not saying DMC is good, great or a bust. I just think on a different team, we'd see a different player.

That jump was absurd. 18 feet? Are you serious?

[Smashmouth]

And you dont think that DMC playing with the worst QB in the league affects the lanes that he sees? Dont you think every player wants out of Oakland in a bad way?

I think you can slice this argument both ways.

You are right JIF you can take the arguement both ways. Alot of how you judge a player is how he fits a current scheme. But some teams dont like the homerun hitter mentality Mcfadden seems to bring to the table. When it comes to being frail as a RB and fumbleing as well some teams will simply have nothing to do with that type player. Not to mention I dont see McFadden ever getting the tough yards. He is a one dimentional back.

Lets put it in a Jets perspective. We have Shonn Greene and TJ running the football. Obviously at this point Greene will be taking over for TJ when he either moves on or retires. Is there a place for a McFadden type player on a team like the Jets that relishes the fact our running backs NEVER fumble ? Shonn Greene ran for 1850 yards and fumbled 1 time his entire career. Mcfadden will never sniff our team.

[JustInFudge]

I tried to watch him as much as I could in college. I really was never that impressed. Played in the wildcat were defenders were froze and just used his speed to get to the outside. In tight spaces, I never saw anything that looked like a top 5 pick. Once his legs were touched, he went down.

I think he'd be better suited to play WR in the NFL. he has the weirdest running back body I've ever seen. No 'mo.

Fair enough, I dont know how you couldnt be impressed with DMC in college. The guy was absolutely incredible. One of the best talents I've ever seen...but hey, I'm not going to tell you what you saw.

[Matt39]

Fair enough, I dont know how you couldnt be impressed with DMC in college. The guy was absolutely incredible. One of the best talents I've ever seen...but hey, I'm not going to tell you what you saw.

Maybe it has something to do with me not believeing the SEC is really any better than any other conference thing. When I hear "he tore up the SEC" im just like ok...

Watching Peterson run in college and then people comparing McFadden to him didnt really help things either. Which is probably where some of this is coming from.

[JustInFudge]

You are right JIF you can take the arguement both ways. Alot of how you judge a player is how he fits a current scheme. But some teams dont like the homerun hitter mentality Mcfadden seems to bring to the table. When it comes to being frail as a RB and fumbleing as well some teams will simply have nothing to do with that type player. Not to mention I dont see McFadden ever getting the tough yards. He is a one dimentional back.

Lets put it in a Jets perspective. We have Shonn Greene and TJ running the football. Obviously at this point Greene will be taking over for TJ when he either moves on or retires. Is there a place for a McFadden type player on a team like the Jets that relishes the fact our running backs NEVER fumble ? Shonn Greene ran for 1850 yards and fumbled 1 time his entire career. Mcfadden will never sniff our team.

I never said he would be on our team. The question was asked if I'd take him and I would. We dont have a ton of depth at RB with Leon injured.

And SG was great Sunday but the Raiders suck donkey dick. A repeat performance is necessary before I crown him our next great RB...IMO.

And fwiw, TJ supposedly never fumbles and he's fumbled 3 times this year.

[JustInFudge]

Maybe it has something to do with me not believeing the SEC is really any better than any other conference thing. When I hear "he tore up the SEC" im just like ok...

Watching Peterson run in college and then people comparing McFadden to him didnt really help things either. Which is probably where some of this is coming from.

SEC RULES!!!

[JohnnyHector]

Maybe it has something to do with me not believeing the SEC is really any better than any other conference thing. When I hear "he tore up the SEC" im just like ok...

I'm not an SEC fan, but the speed on defense in that conference is ridiculous compared to the rest of the nation.

[afosomf]

Maybe it has something to do with me not believeing the SEC is really any better than any other conference thing. When I hear "he tore up the SEC" im just like ok...

Watching Peterson run in college and then people comparing McFadden to him didnt really help things either. Which is probably where some of this is coming from.

AP had questions in college too

BIG 12 is an O league certainly not D

[Smashmouth]

I never said he would be on our team. The question was asked if I'd take him and I would. We dont have a ton of depth at RB with Leon injured.

And SG was great Sunday but the Raiders suck donkey dick. A repeat performance is necessary before I crown him our next great RB...IMO.

And fwiw, TJ supposedly never fumbles and he's fumbled 3 times this year.

JIF I never implied you said anything about our team I was giving an example. Read my post i clearly state puting it in a Jet Perspective

JIF I said Jets RB's never fumble TJ has fumbled 2 times this year 2 times last year and 2 times the year before and one time with Chicago in 06. In those 3 full seasons jets running backs have fumbled the ball 3 times per season. 2 each with Jones and once each with Leon. I should have known using the word nenver would be taken literally by you so Ill say the jets running backs fumble less than any other team in the NFL over the last 3 years does that help ?

[Matt39]

I'm not an SEC fan, but the speed on defense in that conference is ridiculous compared to the rest of the nation.

I agree that their defenses are faster. But they're no where near the NFL...so McFadden dominating SEC defenses really had no bearing on how he'd fare as a pro.

[DMaynard]

Gholston will never amount to much in the NFL. You know how they say "never say never"?

Well I am saying NEVER.

[slats]

All of those players, except Gholston, are at least on the field.

Chris Long had 4 sacks and a FF in his rookie year.

McFadden has 5 TDs thus far.

Dorsey has also put up better numbers and was a starter, unlike Gholston who doesn't see the field.

The names you put out only further prove how bad Gholston is. Because these guys are 'underperforming', but they're a significant improvement above what we've got.

This is the absolute truth.

Bit, I admire your ability to hang in here with this discussion, but how many players can you point to in NFL history who've had starts equal to, or worse than Gholston's, who then went on to become genuine players in this league?

im still waiting for anyone to answer a simple question: was Vinny Testaverde a bust?

He was an absolute total and complete bust for the team that drafted him. The man was blessed with amazing physical gifts and managed to have a long career and a couple good seasons, but he busted at Tampa big time.

Do you ask this question because you believe that Gholston has another 18 years in this league ahead of him, and that two or three of them might even be memorable?

[bitonti]

Bit, I admire your ability to hang in here with this discussion, but how many players can you point to in NFL history who've had starts equal to, or worse than Gholston's, who then went on to become genuine players in this league?

already answered this question... there were 3 players picked 6 overall or higher in the last 10 years that fit this description... one of which is Vernon Davis.

Everyone on the planet called Davis a bust... pretty much from the day he got there until last week... when he scored 3 TD and is the #1 receiving target on that team... i.e. exactly what they drafted him to be.

[bitonti]

Answer this simple question: Are you seriously comparing the development of a QB at the pro level to that of an OLB?

NO im trying to get a handle on the word "BUST"

[bitonti]

Who the hell is asking for instantly great Bit >???? I just want to see something, anything. Give me a break man Im not in the mold of needing to see greatness right of the bat so please dont put me in that category.

Fact: he was stuck behind Pace and Thomas for his rookie year (legitimately shouldn't have beaten out either man) and he's basically in the same spot this year. Pace and Thomas are in fact better than Gholston - not a surprise at all.

btw the 4 games which he replaced Pace he played very well... (4 games where the D played their tit's off and team went 3-1).

also by the way Thomas was stuck behind Abe and Ellis for his early career... ABe left and he played great.

check back in year 5 of Gholston's career... he will have hit his stride at 26 or 27 while players like Pace and Thomas will be over 30 and over the hill.

[ZachEY]

already answered this question... there were 3 players picked 6 overall or higher in the last 10 years that fit this description... one of which is Vernon Davis.

Everyone on the planet called Davis a bust... pretty much from the day he got there until last week... when he scored 3 TD and is the #1 receiving target on that team... i.e. exactly what they drafted him to be.

VD got hurt in his rookie year, but still manged 3 TDs.

In his second season, he started all 14 games he was healthy for.

He managed 9 TDs before this season which is a huge step in production above Gholston.

[slats]

already answered this question... there were 3 players picked 6 overall or higher in the last 10 years that fit this description... one of which is Vernon Davis.

Everyone on the planet called Davis a bust... pretty much from the day he got there until last week... when he scored 3 TD and is the #1 receiving target on that team... i.e. exactly what they drafted him to be.

No, that's not an answer because Vernon Davis had a better start to his career than Gholston. A much better start. He caught 20 passes as a rookie, another 52 the following year, and while he struggled to improve as a receiver (a position which generally takes three years to grasp in this league), he proved himself to be an excellent blocker - something that was supposed to be a weakness of his coming out of college.

Try again. A player who's start was worse than or equal to Gholston's dismal beginning.