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The Schotty stat-line (QB stats before, during and after Schotty)


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It really is amazing when you look at the trend here. The situation just becomes undeniable. The bottom line is that the Jets offensive play-calling does not put the quarterback in the best position to succeed. The Jets have tired everything from the conservative game-manager to the young prospect who spent a year learning on the bench to the gun-slinging future HOF QB and now onto the big time rookie. And no matter the different styles, abilities, successes or failures these QBs have, in the end they have all performed exactly the same in this offense. So the question begs, what kind of QB can succeed in this offense? And the answer is starting to look like none.

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It really is amazing when you look at the trend here. The situation just becomes undeniable. The bottom line is that the Jets offensive play-calling does not put the quarterback in the best position to succeed. The Jets have tired everything from the conservative game-manager to the young prospect who spent a year learning on the bench to the gun-slinging future HOF QB and now onto the big time rookie. And no matter the different styles, abilities, successes or failures these QBs have, in the end they have all performed exactly the same in this offense. So the question begs, what kind of QB can succeed in this offense? And the answer is starting to look like none.

Its called being predictable and having a terrible knack for calling the wrong play at the wrong time.

I remember one game a few weeks ago forget exactly which team we were playing (may have been jacksonville) but we were moving the ball at will with both the pass and the run and Shott calls a WR pass play with Braylon Edwards. Now correct me if Im wrong but if your imposing your will on a team why gamble with a trick play ?? Does this make any sense at all if you understand the game of football ? I could understand if you have a horrible team that needs gimicky type plays to succeed but when you have the type of talent the Jets have why bother with this crap ?

I think Shottenheimer is a total joke and he is nothing like his father who has won no matter where he has coached. He has had some really bad luck in the playoffs and made some questionable calls but he is a winner.

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I think replacing Brian is a no brainer. Woody is trying to fill a stadium, Rex and Tanny get a scapegoat... and most importantly, the team replaces a weak link.

The question is not only, Who becomes the OC? but I think more importantly, Is Coach Cav the best we have available to groom our future?

We need a QB coach just as much as we need a better play-caller. Or is the playcalling, really just THAT bad?

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These "stats" are a joke. Comparing a college sophmore to a college senior? Comparing guys with different teams? The guy wasn't even the OC for any of those teams. He didn't "run the offense" and he certainly hasn't "ruined any QBs".

You want to blame Schottenheimer for the picks Favre threw? Did you watch the games? That moron heaved balls to the other team on a regular basis and scheme and playcalling had nothing to do with it, like the third (maybe the fourth?) one Sanchez threw this week. Besides everything else, they were up near the top of the league in scoring O before the old bastard got hurt so your "favorite comparison" is a joke.

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These "stats" are a joke. Comparing a college sophmore to a college senior? Comparing guys with different teams? The guy wasn't even the OC for any of those teams. He didn't "run the offense" and he certainly hasn't "ruined any QBs".

You want to blame Schottenheimer for the picks Favre threw? Did you watch the games? That moron heaved balls to the other team on a regular basis and scheme and playcalling had nothing to do with it, like the third (maybe the fourth?) one Sanchez threw this week. Besides everything else, they were up near the top of the league in scoring O before the old bastard got hurt so your "favorite comparison" is a joke.

Okay Italy, whatever.

Clearly you're missing the forest for the trees. These "stats" show a remarkable similarity in TD:INT ratio for the QBs who have played with Schotty on staff. The Black and Red just show that it the player had the ability to play a different style of football... and in a clear majority of the cases that "different style" of football enabled a far better stat-line.

It's apparent that you are defending Schottenheimer here, perhaps you can enlighten us why his QBs don't play well.

Let me guess:

Palmer didn't have it in him

Brees didn't have it in him

Pennington didn't have it in him

Favre was hurt and past his time

Sanchez is just a rookie

Before you suck it a little more, tell me how you can justify not winning games... because that is the bottom line. Winning requires meticulous game-planning and proper in-game adjustments. Schotty has not demonstrated proficiency in either.

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Okay Italy, whatever.

Clearly you're missing the forest for the trees. These "stats" show a remarkable similarity in TD:INT ratio for the QBs who have played with Schotty on staff. The Black and Red just show that it the player had the ability to play a different style of football... and in a clear majority of the cases that "different style" of football enabled a far better stat-line.

It's apparent that you are defending Schottenheimer here, perhaps you can enlighten us why his QBs don't play well.

Let me guess:

Palmer didn't have it in him

Brees didn't have it in him

Pennington didn't have it in him

Favre was hurt and past his time

Sanchez is just a rookie

Before you suck it a little more, tell me how you can justify not winning games... because that is the bottom line. Winning requires meticulous game-planning and proper in-game adjustments. Schotty has not demonstrated proficiency in either.

Give me a ****ing break. That's what I hate about this site. I don't like Schottenheimer. I don't give a flaming **** if they fire him. OTOH, I think it is completely moronic to blame him for the play calling when he was the ****ing QB coach. Do you honestly think he was calling plays for Cam Cameron? The QB coach develops the QB and all of those guys (you left out Clemens who you could blame on him) developed just fine. Guess what, I'm not crediting Schottenheimer for that.

There is no forest. Just a bunch of stats that you want to blame on him when he probably had very little do with them. We see him call the plays, what he did in USC is not relevant.

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Player execution on offense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playcalling on offense.

No on said Schotty sucked when we were going to the playoffs in '06 or scoring 30 PPG/going 8-3 with Favre last year.

When it was 8-3 last year, or 3-0 this year the team was winning. The team isn't winning right now. That is cause for explanation.

Blind squirells find nuts, that doesn't mean that in-game adjustments aren't necessary.

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Give me a ****ing break. That's what I hate about this site. I don't like Schottenheimer. I don't give a flaming **** if they fire him. OTOH, I think it is completely moronic to blame him for the play calling when he was the ****ing QB coach. Do you honestly think he was calling plays for Cam Cameron? The QB coach develops the QB and all of those guys (you left out Clemens who you could blame on him) developed just fine. Guess what, I'm not crediting Schottenheimer for that.

There is no forest. Just a bunch of stats that you want to blame on him when he probably had very little do with them. We see him call the plays, what he did in USC is not relevant.

The idea behind the stats was to compile a comprehensive understanding of players during his tenure. How else do you propose evaluating him as a coach? The big point is that he doesn't develop players; he is attempting to prove status as an offensive coach with an un-impressive resume. He wasn't personally responsible for any QB's success. That is a meaningful stat when you have a rookie under center.

For what it's worth, you should be thankful for the couple posters here who take the time to look into stats like these to allow for conclusions to be made. The alternative is reading threads about douche-bags who wanna talk about getting banned, pleading for acceptance into this site, or threads about signing misc. beasts.

I took the time to compile something worthwhile to look at. Disagreeing with my conclusion is fine, but don't tell me that my stats are a joke. They're not my stats.

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The idea behind the stats was to compile a comprehensive understanding of players during his tenure. How else do you propose evaluating him as a coach? The big point is that he doesn't develop players; he is attempting to prove status as an offensive coach with an un-impressive resume. He wasn't personally responsible for any QB's success. That is a meaningful stat when you have a rookie under center.

For what it's worth, you should be thankful for the couple posters here who take the time to look into stats like these to allow for conclusions to be made. The alternative is reading threads about douche-bags who wanna talk about getting banned, pleading for acceptance into this site, or threads about signing misc. beasts.

I took the time to compile something worthwhile to look at. Disagreeing with my conclusion is fine, but don't tell me that my stats are a joke. They're not my stats.

You're right. I appreciate the time you took to compile those stats. Bad as our back and forth is, it is preferable to most JN chatter. I just think that you can't make any rational conclusion about Schottenheimer based on what happened when he was QB coach. You state that he isn't personally responsible for any of the QBs he coached, but they all turned out to be pretty good QBs. You could certainly make the case that he had a large part in developing Palmer and Brees. If he did that he's got a pretty impressive resume.

IMO, the #1 problem with the Jets has been lack of continuity. That is why I wasn't so in favor of dumping Mangini. You can hate Schotty, but the fact is that he has a built in excuse each year. Year 1 he had a good year with a barely adequate QB. Year 2 they regressed when Mr. Barely Adequate either got hurt or deteriorated and the 2nd year player behind him wasn't so hot. Year 3 they added a QB right before the start of the season who didn't want to learn all the plays and didn't seem to follow them. Even then, they were quite successful before his shoulder injury. Year 4 they start a rookie.

I'm not saying that he gets a pass, but he still may turn out to be a good coach. Probably not with the Jets. IMO, he gets too cute for his own good and tries too many tricks. I think he was good the first year, but smart innovative coaches keep coming up with new things or hone their plays to the point where they can't be stopped. Schotty seems like he is just throwing different things at the wall withnout an actually plan for each specific game.

Happy Thanksgiving!

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2004: (SD) Drew Brees, 3159 yards (65.5 %) 27 TDs; 7 INT

explain

Let me start off by saying that this is pure speculation. I wasn't on the team, or near the players so all I can do is look at the underlying facts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The history leading up to the 2004 season.

1) Brees was the first pick of the 2nd round in 2001.

2) Before the 2002 season started, Brees beat out Flutie in training camp and became the starting QB. Brees started out on fire. He lead the Chargers to a 4-0 start.

[sound familiar?]

Unfortunately, the team would ultimately go 8-8. Despite throwing for 17 TDs, Brees also threw 16 INT. But the team thought they had something special.

3) In 2003, Drew Brees regressed. He was ultimately benched (after playing 11 games) in favor of Doug Flutie after tossing 15 INTs to only 11 TDs with his worst completion pct. to date (57.6%)

4) So, having the first pick in the draft the Charger drafted another QB, who would later turn into Phillip Rivers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The coaching staff wanted Rivers to start. They drafted him to save the franchise. However, after a lengthy hold-out they were forced to turn to Drew Brees. I think Brees' 27 TDs to 7 INT was a bold "Fck you" message to his coaching staff. With his (extremely expensive) replacement on deck, the writing was on the wall.

I would venture to say that Brees has talent, and relied upon his instincts in 2004.

The bigger question is why a QB coach who has some influence upon his father would allow the team to draft a QB first overall.

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You're right. I appreciate the time you took to compile those stats. Bad as our back and forth is, it is preferable to most JN chatter. I just think that you can't make any rational conclusion about Schottenheimer based on what happened when he was QB coach. You state that he isn't personally responsible for any of the QBs he coached, but they all turned out to be pretty good QBs. You could certainly make the case that he had a large part in developing Palmer and Brees. If he did that he's got a pretty impressive resume.

IMO, the #1 problem with the Jets has been lack of continuity. That is why I wasn't so in favor of dumping Mangini. You can hate Schotty, but the fact is that he has a built in excuse each year. Year 1 he had a good year with a barely adequate QB. Year 2 they regressed when Mr. Barely Adequate either got hurt or deteriorated and the 2nd year player behind him wasn't so hot. Year 3 they added a QB right before the start of the season who didn't want to learn all the plays and didn't seem to follow them. Even then, they were quite successful before his shoulder injury. Year 4 they start a rookie.

I'm not saying that he gets a pass, but he still may turn out to be a good coach. Probably not with the Jets. IMO, he gets too cute for his own good and tries too many tricks. I think he was good the first year, but smart innovative coaches keep coming up with new things or hone their plays to the point where they can't be stopped. Schotty seems like he is just throwing different things at the wall withnout an actually plan for each specific game.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I agree Dom, and Happy Thanksgiving as well. I'm sure Brian knows football, and its apparent that he has good interviewing skills. But I would prefer to see some "magic"... something that he is personally responsible for... players that are dying to play for him.

He has a great rapport with Mark, they're always buddying it up on the sideline, but the results aren't there. He should be in that kid's ear with rookie-reminders. As a coordinator he should be calling plays that favor a rookie. Designed crossing routes outside the hash-mark, fifteen yards down the field is a recipe for disaster.

It just seems like Manning and Brady have it easier because they tend to have open recievers. A well designed play for a rookie should have two-reads, a safety-valve, and a throw-it-away check down.

first read, second read, dump it off to a back or throw it away. Keep it simple. Brian isn't keeping it simple. He's finding ways to make simple plays more complicated. His pre-snap motions are a joke and ill-fitted in an offense with a new QB (whether it be a future HOFer or a rookie).

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I agree Dom, and Happy Thanksgiving as well. I'm sure Brian knows football, and its apparent that he has good interviewing skills. But I would prefer to see some "magic"... something that he is personally responsible for... players that are dying to play for him.

He has a great rapport with Mark, they're always buddying it up on the sideline, but the results aren't there. He should be in that kid's ear with rookie-reminders. As a coordinator he should be calling plays that favor a rookie. Designed crossing routes outside the hash-mark, fifteen yards down the field is a recipe for disaster.

It just seems like Manning and Brady have it easier because they tend to have open recievers. A well designed play for a rookie should have two-reads, a safety-valve, and a throw-it-away check down.

first read, second read, dump it off to a back or throw it away. Keep it simple. Brian isn't keeping it simple. He's finding ways to make simple plays more complicated. His pre-snap motions are a joke and ill-fitted in an offense with a new QB (whether it be a future HOFer or a rookie).

It goes both ways. Everybody is complaining that on the first pick the two receivers were in the same place, but one of the replays was full-field and showed an open receiver on the other side of the field. Is that on the play design or Sanchez? I think he is trying to "protect" Sanchez and it's not really helping. They should feature the run, but I think they tend to do it excessively, forcing him to throw on 3rd on long. I'm surprised they don't try more third and long draw plays like the olden days.

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I was referring to the third interception where Edwards and Cotchery, our two playmakers were called together bringing three defenders into a tight space.

I'm sure a lot of it does hinge upon Sanchez, and that's kinda my point. He is a rookie. He is going to make mistakes, but to regress, or to have multiple 3+ pick games means the Jets are not being careful with the ball. Mark shouldn't be in a situation where he has to "force" it as often as he feels he does.

That means talking to him about the bad plays that go right as well as the bad plays that go wrong.

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This is angrier than intended, but thats because I posted it somewhere else first:

http://www.steelersfever.com/forums/...ad.php?t=20203

Quote:

Whats so predictable about run, run, pass. I almost thought cowher was back with that short leash ben had on. And the o-line play sucked.

Why are so many people blaming the loss on the play calling I didn't see the coaches calling the game much different than the first 3 game the difference was the execution. Like I said apperently if a play works it is a good call if it doesn't work it was a bad call.RIGHT? (This would be the board idiot I'm guessing)

If you guys can find me the coordinator who can overcome a rookie QB throwing 16 INTs in 10 games, then sure fire away.

I can probably do this for any team...I didn't even check a Ravens forum even though Joe Flacco hasn't thrown a TD 3 games.

Don't you guys get tired of the same stupid cycle, or is the constant whining satisfying enough that no one actually cares enough to pay attention?

I mean seriously...who the ***** is going to sit here and tell me that Rivers or Brees or Manning or Brady or McNabb are top QB's because of *****ing playcalling? Who is going to sit here and tell me the secret to the success of great offenses is *****ing playcalling? And wtf is so wild and crazy about our system? How come Brees and Rivers have played well in similar offenses with our current OC as their former QB coach? It's hacky, fan garbage...just a whole lot of people swearing they have the answers despite not asking themselves a single *****ing question.

Firing Schotty won't solve sh*t.

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The Jets are a perenially mediocre team. They have enough talent to where if the ball bounces just right they can win some games and give the team hope.

However, mediocre teams need to make adjustments to justify a semblance of hope to their fan-base. This year's adjustment will be firing Brian Schottenheimer.

Will that alone make us a winner? Of course not, we're the Jets. But it will spark enough hope in the fans to encourage a continued fandom.

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The Jets are a perenially mediocre team. They have enough talent to where if the ball bounces just right they can win some games and give the team hope.

However, mediocre teams need to make adjustments to justify a semblance of hope to their fan-base. This year's adjustment will be firing Brian Schottenheimer.

Will that alone make us a winner? Of course not, we're the Jets. But it will spark enough hope in the fans to encourage a continued fandom.

So basically...fire him because the fans want it?

It's been a great strategy for 40 years...might as well make it 41.

:rolleyes:

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2004: (SD) Drew Brees, 3159 yards (65.5 %) 27 TDs; 7 INT

explain

Lessee...Gates, LT, Top defense....yeah I'm thinking it's tough to screw that up. Don't let the last 2 years fool you, LT was at one point a top all time RB. Better than AP has been so far, that's for sure (and I like AP, he just fumbles a whole bunch but still is one of the top RBs right now).

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Lessee...Gates, LT, Top defense....yeah I'm thinking it's tough to screw that up. Don't let the last 2 years fool you, LT was at one point a top all time RB. Better than AP has been so far, that's for sure (and I like AP, he just fumbles a whole bunch but still is one of the top RBs right now).

You know...I'd think it's a given at this point that it would take more than a QB to have a good offense.

Apparently it's not, and having good players should count against coaches (as long as that coach is hated).

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The Jets are a perenially mediocre team. They have enough talent to where if the ball bounces just right they can win some games and give the team hope.

However, mediocre teams need to make adjustments to justify a semblance of hope to their fan-base. This year's adjustment will be firing Brian Schottenheimer.

Will that alone make us a winner? Of course not, we're the Jets. But it will spark enough hope in the fans to encourage a continued fandom.

...and continued mediocrity.

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