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Let me preface this with a couple things before I ask my question: I have always felt tannenbaum has done a very good job as GM as is evident with the overall talent on the team and I do NOT think Sanchez is a bust. With that being said, how long is this fanbase willing to wait for Sanchez to develop?

Let's be very clear on the facts of Mark Sanchez-he played 16 total college games. He played no games in even the slightest of inclement weather before playing in the NFL. He has only now played one truly cold game, and even then it still wasn't the bitter cold winds the meadowlands can produce come the end of December and in January. He is as green as green gets.

Realistically speaking, Mark Sanchez is not going to suddenly "get it" next season. He is going to take a long time before he consistently plays at the level that he occasionally flashes now. He's not playing like a QB who just needs to catch up to the speed of the NFL, he's playing like a guy who still has alot to learn about football period. I just don't see any way he could possibly become what we all hope from him until at least year 3 in the NFL. Are we willing to wait this long? Especially given the overall talent we have on this team?

Which brings me to Tannenbaum and possibly one of my only criticism's of the guy. How does an NFL front office possibly look at a kid with so little experience as Sanchez to be the savior of the team immediately? There has to have been one of two mistakes this FO made-they grossly underestimated the talent of the team outside of QB (highly unlikely), or they grossly overestimated the ability of a kid with so little experience to come in and make an immediate impact. Mark Sanchez is a classic case of a QB who needed to sit on the bench to learn the game of football. I've been saying this from day one.

The playmakers we have on this team are going to be 3 years older by the time we know whether Sanchez is the real deal or not.

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Let me preface this with a couple things before I ask my question: I have always felt tannenbaum has done a very good job as GM as is evident with the overall talent on the team and I do NOT think Sanchez is a bust. With that being said, how long is this fanbase willing to wait for Sanchez to develop?

Let's be very clear on the facts of Mark Sanchez-he played 16 total college games. He played no games in even the slightest of inclement weather before playing in the NFL. He has only now played one truly cold game, and even then it still wasn't the bitter cold winds the meadowlands can produce come the end of December and in January. He is as green as green gets.

Realistically speaking, Mark Sanchez is not going to suddenly "get it" next season. He is going to take a long time before he consistently plays at the level that he occasionally flashes now. He's not playing like a QB who just needs to catch up to the speed of the NFL, he's playing like a guy who still has alot to learn about football period. I just don't see any way he could possibly become what we all hope from him until at least year 3 in the NFL. Are we willing to wait this long? Especially given the overall talent we have on this team?

Which brings me to Tannenbaum and possibly one of my only criticism's of the guy. How does an NFL front office possibly look at a kid with so little experience as Sanchez to be the savior of the team immediately? There has to have been one of two mistakes this FO made-they grossly underestimated the talent of the team outside of QB (highly unlikely), or they grossly overestimated the ability of a kid with so little experience to come in and make an immediate impact. Mark Sanchez is a classic case of a QB who needed to sit on the bench to learn the game of football. I've been saying this from day one.

The playmakers we have on this team are going to be 3 years older by the time we know whether Sanchez is the real deal or not.

I said that from day one and had mean awful nasty things said about me. There should have been a veteran QB on this roster before the draft even began.

The only reason we were told Clemens-Ratliff-Ainge was even remotely acceptable is because Schottenheimer had seen a lot of all of them and was returning. We now see what his opinion is worth.

I'd like someone to name a QB who skipped his senior season of college with less than 16 games of starting experience, who then started from game 1 of his rookie season. If any exist, then cross off those on a team capable of leading the league in rushing, defensive yards, and points allowed.

I'd be interested in seeing the list of teams that attempted this in the past so we have some success stories to draw analogies to.

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It would have been nice if Sanchez could have been sitting behind Pennington this season. Riddle me this: Why is Clemens even on the roster in training camp if he is so bad that you trade up to 5 and pick a rookie QB with only 16 college starts. Why not just cut Clemens, sign a vet on the cheap and hold Farves hand to the fire? The whole problem starts with the deal the Jets made to get Favre which was an over involved owner/operator f'n things up.

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Boozer, you know better than any of us that the Jets are a team that the stars have to align just right for them to make it all the way. I thought we had were there in '98 in Denver up 10-0 but then the SOJ's reared their ugly heads.

For example, instead of Favre last season, we have Favre this season. Or back in '01 instead of hiring Herm the Jets hire John Fox.

We are always a day late and a dollar short. Always. This season the AFC was up for grabs. I think any team could be beaten in there own home, in the playoffs; Even the Colts.

The 2009 Jets can run the ball, they are top five I think in run defense,and playmakers like Cotchery and Edwards (and Washington until he got hurt) on offense., and they have a shut down corner in Revis.

What more do you need? Well, you need a QB that doesn't throw 3-5 INT's a game.

Do I think the he will carry that into next season? NO, I have no reason to believe that, but then again, do I think the Jets defense is gonna be in the top 5 next year?

I have no reason to believe that neither.

YOu gotta catch lightning in a bottle, and it was clear that Sanchez was in over his head 7 weeks ago. Should have benched him and let him go into next season with a clean slate.

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It would have been nice if Sanchez could have been sitting behind Pennington this season. Riddle me this: Why is Clemens even on the roster in training camp if he is so bad that you trade up to 5 and pick a rookie QB with only 16 college starts. Why not just cut Clemens, sign a vet on the cheap and hold Farves hand to the fire? The whole problem starts with the deal the Jets made to get Favre which was an over involved owner/operator f'n things up.

If favre never left, we dont' draft sanchez or hire rex and the defense sucks again anyway..

Chad would've done his usual beat up on weak schedule and lay a goose egg in the playoffs thing, Mangini would still be here and we'd have spent all offseason argueing about whether or not this team would finally be good enough to overcome Penningtons deficiency..

Then of course, he would've killed the team this season, just like he killed Miami (assuming they don't make the playoffs)

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I was thinking about starting this thread all day.

I think the earliest we draft a QB is the 2012 draft. Next year, Sanchez gets the same unconditional love. 2011 we bring in a vet who can compete, but Sanchez will still get the start. If it doesn't go well in 2011, he may get yanked, and we redraft early.

Obviously all guesses, but lets hope this is not the scenario.

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If favre never left, we dont' draft sanchez or hire rex and the defense sucks again anyway..

Chad would've done his usual beat up on weak schedule and lay a goose egg in the playoffs thing, Mangini would still be here and we'd have spent all offseason argueing about whether or not this team would finally be good enough to overcome Penningtons deficiency..

Then of course, he would've killed the team this season, just like he killed Miami (assuming they don't make the playoffs)

If we never got Favre we still could have drafted Sanchez this season and given him the year to sit. Assuming Chad stayed healthy here. In the end Favre screwed us again in another way. Dis Chad all you want, no way he throws 20 picks in a season with this offensive talent. He has never, ever played with this kind of talent before.

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If we never got Favre we still could have drafted Sanchez this season and given him the year to sit. Assuming Chad stayed healthy here. In the end Favre screwed us again in another way.

No.

There's simply no way mangini would move from the 20's to top 5 to draft sanchez if he was still here. Besides, without mangini in cleveland who exactly was going to trade the number 5 away for a 1, a 2 and a sack of jockstraps? Nobody..

Favre saved this franchise from Pennington/Mangini.. he deserves a spot in the team HOF

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No.

There's simply no way mangini would move from the 20's to top 5 to draft sanchez if he was still here. Besides, without mangini in cleveland who exactly was going to trade the number 5 away for a 1, a 2 and a sack of jockstraps? Nobody..

Favre saved this franchise from Pennington/Mangini.. he deserves a spot in the team HOF

+1

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No.

There's simply no way mangini would move from the 20's to top 5 to draft sanchez if he was still here. Besides, without mangini in cleveland who exactly was going to trade the number 5 away for a 1, a 2 and a sack of jockstraps? Nobody..

Favre saved this franchise from Pennington/Mangini.. he deserves a spot in the team HOF

Why are you bringing up Mangini? If the Jets cut Clemens, sign a cheap, efficient vet and not pick Sanchez Favre would most def come back here. With or without Rex. Still the problem was getting Favre to begin with, and not what happened this past offseason.

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Why are you bringing up Mangini? If the Jets cut Clemens, sign a cheap, efficient vet and not pick Sanchez Favre would most def come back here. With or without Rex. Still the problem was getting Favre to begin with, and not what happened this past offseason.

Ok ..

this thread is about sanchez anyway..

does anyone think it's unfair to expect something resembling avg QB play out of him next year?

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No.

There's simply no way mangini would move from the 20's to top 5 to draft sanchez if he was still here. Besides, without mangini in cleveland who exactly was going to trade the number 5 away for a 1, a 2 and a sack of jockstraps? Nobody..

Favre saved this franchise from Pennington/Mangini.. he deserves a spot in the team HOF

I still think drafting a QB is viable and smart move. And did the Jets really have to jump to 5 overall for Sanchez? San Fran maybe at 10, Bills 11. Figure thats even less to trade up to those spots.

Point being, I dont buy into the philosphy that Favre would keep Tanny from drafting a Qb, especially an inexperienced one like Sanchez. Thats when it make sense.

But this is doodoo speculation poop. Hate these talks.

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I believe Francesa when he said that he was told by someone in the Jets org that Woody said that he would never again have a QB that either didn't have star power or a big arm.

I think that is the main reason why the Jets didn't bring in a veteran QB to work with Sanchez. (unless you consider Clemens a vet).

I do think that Sanchez will develop into a good QB. Maybe a Matt Hassleback or Jake Plummer type who does a nice job but will make you want to pull your hair out at times.

He has shown some sparks of being a top flight QB and at times he has looked like Browning Nagle.

In the long run it won't matter how long we are willing to wait. In the end it is Woody's decision.

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Ok ..

this thread is about sanchez anyway..

does anyone think it's unfair to expect something resembling avg QB play out of him next year?

I think that you should expect average QB play from him next season. Most QB's, even great ones are pretty bad in their first season as rookies and pretty average in their second.

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I still think drafting a QB is viable and smart move. And did the Jets really have to jump to 5 overall for Sanchez? San Fran maybe at 10, Bills 11. Figure thats even less to trade up to those spots.

Point being, I dont buy into the philosphy that Favre would keep Tanny from drafting a Qb, especially an inexperienced one like Sanchez. Thats when it make sense.

But this is doodoo speculation poop. Hate these talks.

My argument was the Pennington/mangini tandem in 08 would've lead to no sanchez in 09 (which may work out to be the right move anyway, but i digress..)

carry on.

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Let me preface this with a couple things before I ask my question: I have always felt tannenbaum has done a very good job as GM as is evident with the overall talent on the team and I do NOT think Sanchez is a bust. With that being said, how long is this fanbase willing to wait for Sanchez to develop?

Let's be very clear on the facts of Mark Sanchez-he played 16 total college games. He played no games in even the slightest of inclement weather before playing in the NFL. He has only now played one truly cold game, and even then it still wasn't the bitter cold winds the meadowlands can produce come the end of December and in January. He is as green as green gets.

Realistically speaking, Mark Sanchez is not going to suddenly "get it" next season. He is going to take a long time before he consistently plays at the level that he occasionally flashes now. He's not playing like a QB who just needs to catch up to the speed of the NFL, he's playing like a guy who still has alot to learn about football period. I just don't see any way he could possibly become what we all hope from him until at least year 3 in the NFL. Are we willing to wait this long? Especially given the overall talent we have on this team?

Which brings me to Tannenbaum and possibly one of my only criticism's of the guy. How does an NFL front office possibly look at a kid with so little experience as Sanchez to be the savior of the team immediately? There has to have been one of two mistakes this FO made-they grossly underestimated the talent of the team outside of QB (highly unlikely), or they grossly overestimated the ability of a kid with so little experience to come in and make an immediate impact. Mark Sanchez is a classic case of a QB who needed to sit on the bench to learn the game of football. I've been saying this from day one.

The playmakers we have on this team are going to be 3 years older by the time we know whether Sanchez is the real deal or not.

If we can retain and keeping adding talent to this team, then I can wait. If we cant resign some of our young cornerstones, then we are in trouble. IMO this team is young enough with good work on the books to make a solid 4-5 year run with a highly talented team which should only get better.

Its only Rex's first year and outside of Raven transplants, its year 1 for our defense in his system. You gotta think we are drafting defensively this year as there is no glaring offensive needs assuming we resign BE. Its my belief, we havent seen what this D is fully capable of and that Rex knows wtf he is doing.

All this debating over Sanchez, Defense, Special Teams, the bottom line is, we dont have clutch playmakers on this team. End of story. Even with Sanchez sucking as bad as he does, if we had some clutch playmakers on defense or special teams, we'd be in the playoffs. Nobody steps up and makes a play when you need it most. Now on offense, thats typically your QB, but it can come from other players as well. Just doesnt happen and we know Sanchez's story.

Find some clutch player makers, whether its in house or draft/FA/trade or this team will continue to find ways to lose. Sanchez is our guy till at least to 2011. We're all in with this guy. Ryan's career may lay in his hands. I'm not giving up yet, but its sure hard to believe in him. Its not like QB's are just hanging out looking for work besides Jeff Garcia ;-)

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My argument was the Pennington/mangini tandem in 08 would've lead to no sanchez in 09 (which may work out to be the right move anyway, but i digress..)

carry on.

I didnt read the last sentence in your post because I got excited about saying something cool.

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Which brings me to Tannenbaum and possibly one of my only criticism's of the guy. How does an NFL front office possibly look at a kid with so little experience as Sanchez to be the savior of the team immediately?

what other choice did he have?

when you asked "how long are you illing to wait" i thought you were talking about being a Jets fan. before I switch to another team? :bag:

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I believe Francesa when he said that he was told by someone in the Jets org that Woody said that he would never again have a QB that either didn't have star power or a big arm.

francesa talks out of his rear but if that's true I agree with Woody. as a franchise owner, why should he be interested in trotting out Matt Moore or Charlie Frye?

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I think that you should expect average QB play from him next season. Most QB's, even great ones are pretty bad in their first season as rookies and pretty average in their second.

pretty average this year and we are in the playoffs

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If we never got Favre we still could have drafted Sanchez this season and given him the year to sit. Assuming Chad stayed healthy here. In the end Favre screwed us again in another way. Dis Chad all you want, no way he throws 20 picks in a season with this offensive talent. He has never, ever played with this kind of talent before.

RSJ,

I love Penny but he is incapable of beating a halfway competent defensive coach, therefore would never take us anywhere. His arm is gone, good defenses feast on it. The wildcat hid it.

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Watch the defense suck next season.

imo it'll have an inverse relationship to sanchez's performance.. if he's good the defense will suck, if he sucks again, the defense will be very good again..

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John Elway had 3 brutal seasons too. Drew Brees was written off after his first few seasons, that's why they drafted Rivers. There's a very, very long list of successful QBs that just were not very good their first few seasons. Hell, how good was Brett Favre his first 2 seasons? I don't know that he even played. Steve Young didn't play...Montana didn't really get it until year 3.

Sanchez will be fine. I was worried about his arm strength before but I think that's fine. His size seems good enough too, and he is athletic. Get a good OC in here and watch him excel.

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I believe Francesa when he said that he was told by someone in the Jets org that Woody said that he would never again have a QB that either didn't have star power or a big arm.

I think that is the main reason why the Jets didn't bring in a veteran QB to work with Sanchez. (unless you consider Clemens a vet).

I do think that Sanchez will develop into a good QB. Maybe a Matt Hassleback or Jake Plummer type who does a nice job but will make you want to pull your hair out at times.

He has shown some sparks of being a top flight QB and at times he has looked like Browning Nagle.

In the long run it won't matter how long we are willing to wait. In the end it is Woody's decision.

The things I've heard him say on WFAN make me believe Woody is as obsessed with arm strength at the average Jet fan. I also believe from these interviews that he will never hire an established coach. He wants someone who views the Jets as the number one job in the NFL. That is damn hard to find.

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Stop thinking then.

As bad as Sanchez has been, he's no where near as bad as Leinart was in his limited opportunities in Arizona.

all I'm saying is I'm already thinking what we're gonna do, who we're gonna play, Ainge? O'Connell? or Heaven forbid Clemens? I'm not a 5 year plan type of Jets fan anymore-I'm running OUT of 5 year increments. I just wish I didn't care.

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I'm starting to think Sanchez = Matt Leinart = el busto which also = another 5 years of crappy Jets football

If he turns out to be the next Leinart, with more playing time because we don't have a Kurt Warner behind him, it would not surprise me one bit. If you're a realistic fan you HAVE to be concerned at him not improving as the season has moved foward. You HAVE to be concerned.

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If he turns out to be the next Leinart, with more playing time because we don't have a Kurt Warner behind him, it would not surprise me one bit. If you're a realistic fan you HAVE to be concerned at him not improving as the season has moved foward. You HAVE to be concerned.

I was all for this kid Joe-I loved what I heard him say a week or so before the draft. But I'm a different kind of Jets fan than most on the boards because of one simple fact: I don't CARE what I said in April, I don't care what I said Saturday night if the guy I'm dissing makes a play on Sunday. So I could care less if anybody digs up an old thread of mine that "proves" I am wrong. I often am anyway.

The kind of Jets fan I am though is I call 'em as I see 'em from week to week and I am losing faith in Sanchez and losing faith in Woody Johnson and Mike Tannenbaum's ability to get a winning Jets team formula. I have LOST faith in Schottenheimer and if Ryan doesn't address that BIG problem I'm about to lose faith in HIM too.

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