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How long are you illing to wait??


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I'm not willing to wait any longer. This was a stupid idea from the beginning. The fact that we're stuck with his contract is no reason to waste another season. I don't understand the idea that he's going to somehow get caught up on all of the experience he hasn't had. Two years from now he'll still be starting games that Rivers and Cutler had logged in college. Trying to coach him up at this point is just building a house on a crappy foundation.

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How in the heck could that have happened?

The only reason the Jets were able to move from 17 to 5 is because Mangini was the Browns' HC. If Mangini is still the Jets HC, the team would NEVER have been in a position to move up to get Sanchez.

+1 no one but Mangini would have given us the 5th pick for the 17th, 52nd, and three bench warmers.

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I'm not willing to wait any longer. This was a stupid idea from the beginning. The fact that we're stuck with his contract is no reason to waste another season. I don't understand the idea that he's going to somehow get caught up on all of the experience he hasn't had. Two years from now he'll still be starting games that Rivers and Cutler had logged in college. Trying to coach him up at this point is just building a house on a crappy foundation.

Whats your suggestion?

Its not like QB's are just laying on the couch hanging out ready to take the league by storm.

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Ok ..

this thread is about sanchez anyway..

does anyone think it's unfair to expect something resembling avg QB play out of him next year?

2009. Learning curve

2010. Competent

2011. Good

2012. Probowlesque

That's my expectation out of Sanchez over the next 3 seasons. At worst it should be:

2009. Learning curve

2010. Remedial learning curve

2011. Competent

2012. Good

If Sanchez is not good by 2012, the Jets will need to address the QB position ASAP.

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I think that we will run it more then pass and we will get more points. Also look forward to more wildcat.

The Jets can run the ball all day just like they did against the Bills, but you still have to outscore the Colts. The Colts will have a two score lead the whole game, running the ball is just gonna do them a favor by killing time. Sanchez will have to throw it sooner or later, and you know what happens----

PICK 6!

Colts have 16 picks this year.

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Whats your suggestion?

Its not like QB's are just laying on the couch hanging out ready to take the league by storm.

Start Clemens the last two games, but only because he gives us the best chance of winning them. Barring a playoff win he's obviously gone no matter how well he performs. Get Jason Campbell if money permits. If not, get some veteran retread and make Sanchez beat out Ainge and O'Connell to be the backup before we even consider starting him again.

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2009. Learning curve

2010. Competent

2011. Good

2012. Probowlesque

That's my expectation out of Sanchez over the next 3 seasons. At worst it should be:

2009. Learning curve

2010. Remedial learning curve

2011. Competent

2012. Good

If Sanchez is not good by 2012, the Jets will need to address the QB position ASAP.

Don't worry by 2012 Sanchez is going to make Brady look like crap

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Start Clemens the last two games, but only because he gives us the best chance of winning them. Barring a playoff win he's obviously gone no matter how well he performs. Get Jason Campbell if money permits. If not, get some veteran retread and make Sanchez beat out Ainge and O'Connell to be the backup before we even consider starting him again.

On which planet does Clemens have a better chance of winning them?

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Stop thinking then.

As bad as Sanchez has been, he's no where near as bad as Leinart was in his limited opportunities in Arizona.

Leinart is a complete jackass who nobody likes, on or off the Cardinals. But it's not as far off as you make it, and you can't compare Leinart's eventual failure to Sanchez because Sanchez clearly hasn't succeeded or shown improvement as a 2nd-year player yet. All you can compare is how they looked out of the gate. Here are their rookie results in games each started:

Sanchez (13 starts)

  • 176/329 - 2275 YDS - 12 TD's - 20 INT's - 10 FUMBLES
  • 3 rushing TD's
  • 3.6% TD percentage
  • 6.1% Int percentage
  • 3.0% Fumble percentage
  • 6.9 YPA
  • 53.5% completion percentage
  • 2/13 starts with 60% completion percentage
  • 2/13 starts with 2+ touchdowns
  • 4/13 starts with 3+ interceptions
  • 1/13 start with 2 interceptions
  • 8/13 starts with 0-1 interceptions
  • 4/13 starts with 2 more interceptions than TD's
  • 3/13 starts with 3+ more interceptions than TD's
  • 1/13 starts asked to attempt 35 or more passes
  • Jets supporting defense = 1st in NFL
  • Jets supporting rushing game = 1st in NFL
  • Veteran QB support to bounce things off and learn from = Kellen Clemens

Leinart (11 starts)

  • 208/368 - 2493 YDS - 11 TD's - 11 INT's - 7 FUMBLES
  • 2 rushing TD's
  • 3.0% TD percentage
  • 3.0% Int percentage
  • 2.1% Fumble percentage
  • 6.8 YPA
  • 56.5% completion percentage
  • 6/11 starts with 60% completion percentage
  • 3/11 starts with 2+ touchdowns
  • 0/11 starts with 3+ interceptions
  • 4/11 starts with 2 interceptions
  • 8/11 starts with 0-1 interceptions
  • 3/11 starts with 2 more interceptions than TD's
  • 0/11 starts with 3+ more interceptions than TD's
  • 5/11 starts asked to attempt 35 or more passes
  • Arizona supporting defense = 29th in NFL
  • Arizona supporting rush game = 30th in NFL
  • Veteran QB support to bounce things off and learn from = Kurt Warner

I'm not saying Leinart is, was, or will be a better QB. I'm saying as rookies the disparity isn't great at all and it's quite easy to show that Sanchez is having a worse rookie season.

The last bullet-point is probably what pisses me off more than anything. Even if you're not going to bring in serious competition who would likely beat him out for the starting job, which I thought was terrible for both Sanchez and the rest of the team, at least bring in some retired vet as an "assistant QB coach" or "in-game QB coach" to bounce things off. But having just Clemens as the veteran QB he has to lean on for help his whole rookie season, particularly for a QB as green as Sanchez, is just stupid in epic proportions. Leinart's whole thing was how "NFL ready" he was, which is the last thing we figured with Sanchez. With that Leinart gets a future HOF'er on his sideline. Sanchez gets a future Burns, Oregon Piggly Wiggly night manager on his sideline.

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Whats your suggestion?

Its not like QB's are just laying on the couch hanging out ready to take the league by storm.

testaverde_vinny10.jpg

:rl:

The Jets can run the ball all day just like they did against the Bills, but you still have to outscore the Colts. The Colts will have a two score lead the whole game, running the ball is just gonna do them a favor by killing time. Sanchez will have to throw it sooner or later, and you know what happens----

PICK 6!

Colts have 16 picks this year.

Thats why they won't push it with too many deep throws. Keep it short, nothing over 15 yds.

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testaverde_vinny10.jpg

LOL - he's a stat compiler.

Start Clemens the last two games, but only because he gives us the best chance of winning them. Barring a playoff win he's obviously gone no matter how well he performs. Get Jason Campbell if money permits. If not, get some veteran retread and make Sanchez beat out Ainge and O'Connell to be the backup before we even consider starting him again.

Ugh. Jason Campbell makes some boneheaded plays as well.

Why couldnt we just trade for Matt Schaub all those years I was screaming to do so.

On which planet does Clemens have a better chance of winning them?

On the same planet in which he is undefeated in 2009.

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LOL - he's a stat compiler.

Ugh. Jason Campbell makes some boneheaded plays as well.

Why couldnt we just trade for Matt Schaub all those years I was screaming to do so.

On the same planet in which he is undefeated in 2009.

Yes, and it was quite the scintillating performance. I get chills thinking of how well Clemens throws the ball away as opposed to Sanchez. :rolleyes:

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I'm not bothering anymore with you. You've jumped the shark.

Because I don't acknowledge the inevitability of Sanchez turning into a good quarterback? Why should I? He projected badly, he's played badly, therefore he's gonna be awesome?

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I'm not willing to wait any longer. This was a stupid idea from the beginning. The fact that we're stuck with his contract is no reason to waste another season. I don't understand the idea that he's going to somehow get caught up on all of the experience he hasn't had. Two years from now he'll still be starting games that Rivers and Cutler had logged in college. Trying to coach him up at this point is just building a house on a crappy foundation.

Start Clemens the last two games, but only because he gives us the best chance of winning them. Barring a playoff win he's obviously gone no matter how well he performs. Get Jason Campbell if money permits. If not, get some veteran retread and make Sanchez beat out Ainge and O'Connell to be the backup before we even consider starting him again.

PROPS!

I give you credit for making a definitive proclamation and not hedging your bets like that whus CTM.

There's no need to debate this. Sanchez = Akili Smith in your book and we'll have to see if you're right.

I don't like your Jason Campbell option though, he's ruined in my book. If anything, in your scenario, I'd trade for David Carr. His time with the Giants as a backup has been good for him (based on the preseason at least). He'd be a better option than Campbell.

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Start Clemens the last two games, but only because he gives us the best chance of winning them. Barring a playoff win he's obviously gone no matter how well he performs. Get Jason Campbell if money permits. If not, get some veteran retread and make Sanchez beat out Ainge and O'Connell to be the backup before we even consider starting him again.

I thought you would go leinart here..

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Yes, and it was quite the scintillating performance. I get chills thinking of how well Clemens throws the ball away as opposed to Sanchez. :rolleyes:

I dont give a **** what kind of chills Clemens gives you, if he started vs. the Falcons we'd be in serious playoff contention...all Sanchez had to do was give a Clemens like performance on Sunday and we win.

And yes, him throwing the ball away is much better than Sanchez throwing it to the wrong team. I much rather that type of performance that straight doodoo incompetence.

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I thought you would go leinart here..

Physically, Leinart doesn't make sense.

Maybe last year for the right price the Cardinals move Leinart with two years to groom somebody under Warner. I think that is probably out of the question now and I doubt we can afford both contracts anyway.

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Because I don't acknowledge the inevitability of Sanchez turning into a good quarterback? Why should I? He projected badly, he's played badly, therefore he's gonna be awesome?

Who is "acknowledging the inevitability of Sanchez turning into a good quarterback?"

Suggesting that it is too early to judge him based on 13 games and suggesting that he's going to be a Hall of Famer are two different things entirely.

Suggesting that he's a complete bust and is never going to be any good (which is what you are doing) is just as foolish as suggesting he'd going to be an all-time great.

If Sanchez projected so badly he wouldn't have been a top five pick. There is no way to spin that to make yourself right. People with ****loads more football knowledge than everyone on this board combined projected him as a good QB, hence his draft status. Saying otherwise because he's played like a rookie in his rookie year just makes you look stupid.

And here comes the "he only had 16 starts in college and no one with so few starts has ever been successful" BS.

Well that's not exactly a rule now is it? No team had ever missed three FGs shorter than 40 yards three different ways in a game prior to this past Sunday but I saw it happen with my own two eyes.

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Ugh. Jason Campbell makes some boneheaded plays as well.

I don't like your Jason Campbell option though, he's ruined in my book.

Why don't you guys like Campbell? He's played much better than Sanchez under far more difficult circumstances.

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And here comes the "he only had 16 starts in college and no one with so few starts has ever been successful" BS.

Well that's not exactly a rule now is it? No team had ever missed three FGs shorter than 40 yards three different ways in a game prior to this past Sunday but I saw it happen with my own two eyes.

This works if you're inclined to write off the previous quarterbacks' failure as a series of discrete flukes and not something that happens for a reason. I think it's more likely that there's a reason.

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PROPS!

I give you credit for making a definitive proclamation and not hedging your bets like that whus CTM.

I'm not hedging, I just legitimatly dont know. I can make a case for either argument..

WHat i do know is that Ryan/Schott/Cavanaugh have bungled this thing from day 1 from just about every perspective.. Imo, there should never have been a QB competition, Clemens should've started and Sanchez taken over when and if Clemens struggled. At least that way, you wouldn't have the media narrative that we do now (that sanchez killed the season)

Further, I find it hard to believe that people think he benefited from this season. If you watch tape of Sanchez on week 1 versus Sanchez now, he's a shell of what he started the year as. Hes' going to need a full offseason of some hardcore rexfelation to get his confidence back, and I'm not even sure that'll work if he has to listen to how he killed the teams playoff chances all spring/summer.

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Your love for Campbell kills your credibility. The guy is a zero.

I don't love Campbell. He wanted a name, so I gave him one who is 1) better than Sanchez, 2) likely to be available this offseason, and 3) at least a possible fit in terms of salary. There are plenty of others. Campbell is likely the best.

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