CTM Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I honestly don't have any opinion on this. How could I? You're unable to make an informed guess? I would speculate that maturity alone would do him wonders, also I think expectations/pressure are lower if you put some time in between the pick and the taking the job.. starting him right out of the gate gives hi the franchise savior label from day 1.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 You're unable to make an informed guess? No, not really. I mean, as a result of the lack of experience that I think makes Sanchez a non-viable prospect, I don't have the information about him that I'd use to decide whether a given viable prospect should start or sit. He never played a more talented team, never played anybody twice, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 That ship having now sailed, do you think Sanchez has zero chance of being successfuly now? If so, what do you think the Jets should do for a QB moving forward? I don't think it has necessarily sailed, but it has drifted way off-course at this point. He has shown almost zero progression since the start of the season with a good supporting cast, which is the most alarming thing to me. In order to right it, I think they need to bring in a new OC and QB coach, because nothing they have done this season regarding Sanchez has been beneficial. If next year is indeed uncapped, I think the Jets need to make a play for a legitimate veteran QB that can push Sanchez and have a fair competition in camp for the starting job. His confidence can't get much more rattled, so he's either mentally tough enough to take the benching if he's beaten out for the job, or he isn't and probably doesn't have the makeup to be a successful QB in this league. Given its proficiencies running the ball and on defense, this team can ill-afford to go into next season without a competent starting QB to turn to if Sanchez doesn't show significant improvement this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 No, not really. I mean, as a result of the lack of experience that I think makes Sanchez a non-viable prospect, I don't have the information about him that I'd use to decide whether a given viable prospect should start or sit. He never played a more talented team, never played anybody twice, etc. etc. And he never played in a game that was slightly competitive...acutally he did once. It was USC's only loss of the year. He was a doodoo prospect that wow'd people with his footwork, his pretty face and his interviewing skills. There's nothing he did in college that warranted his 5 overall pick. Something happened at combine that made people love him. Maybe the temptation of having a model as the face of your organization. I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 And he never played in a game that was slightly competitive...acutally he did once. It was USC's only loss of the year. He was a doodoo prospect that wow'd people with his footwork, his pretty face and his interviewing skills. There's nothing he did in college that warranted his 5 overall pick. Something happened at combine that made people love him. Maybe the temptation of having a model as the face of your organization. I dont know. A mexican model at QB in this area of the country, could do wonders for the sport internationally and with a burgeoning demographic on our own country.. I imagine godell <3 sanchez almost as much as ryan does.. But, there was definitely something to like about him, His rose bowl performance was very good, great footwork, smart kid, ran a pro offense. I'm pretty sure RJF said he was the top QB prospect during last years bowl season and he's pretty tuned into the draft stuff.. I liked the pick then and still like it now, I just think we've bungled it since then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 3 years from now all of you will pretend you saw how great Sanchez would be and never said a negative thing about him. It'll be laughable if it wasn't so stupid. It's not like anyone ever has accountability, there were so many people on here who were convinced Pennington, Herm, Mangini and Schitty were all great and would argue their merits non-stop, and now everyone pretends they always hated them. Sanchez already has the goods, this is the one time the Jets actually took a shot at getting a possible top QB. Stafford hasn't looked much better. I like Stafford but in recent weeks I think Sanchez has surpassed him. You have to look beyond the stats and look at the actual throws and game situations. With a new OC in here the Jets offense explodes next year. Exactly. Once you actually sit down and think....there werent really any other options for the Jets. They needed to take a chance on a QB eventually. The big mistake they made was not bringing a vet here from the start. I think Sanchez will still be a good QB. The arm is there. The mind just needs to catch up. He'll get used to the cold eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Exactly. Once you actually sit down and think....there werent really any other options for the Jets. They needed to take a chance on a QB eventually. The big mistake they made was not bringing a vet here from the start. I think Sanchez will still be a good QB. The arm is there. The mind just needs to catch up. He'll get used to the cold eventually. Exactly, give him a chance. Everyone get off the bridge and take the rope off from around your necks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 3 years from now all of you will pretend you saw how great Sanchez would be and never said a negative thing about him. It'll be laughable if it wasn't so stupid. It's not like anyone ever has accountability, there were so many people on here who were convinced Pennington, Herm, Mangini and Schitty were all great and would argue their merits non-stop, and now everyone pretends they always hated them. Sanchez already has the goods, this is the one time the Jets actually took a shot at getting a possible top QB. Stafford hasn't looked much better. I like Stafford but in recent weeks I think Sanchez has surpassed him. You have to look beyond the stats and look at the actual throws and game situations. With a new OC in here the Jets offense explodes next year. Well, that's the beauty of having a free Search feature. I wasn't sold on Sanchez as a prospect because of his glaring lack of experience, but liked the selection due to his ceiling and the low cost (in trade) that it took to move up. I was also quite vocal, however, in my belief that starting him Week 1 put him in the worst position to succeed in the long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Ok, so what are you going to do then? Stop rooting for the team? Stop posting on this messageboard? Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out then. How is 'not willing to wait any more' any different than if I say 2 more years? Either way, it's a decision that's completely out of the posters hands, so really, if we're looking for our own personal solutions, the answer is, 'as long as the team is willing to give him' and this thread is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think the solution could be Charlie Weiss. Before Brady became Brady I remember him being a young QB who sat in the pocket, and found his backs a lot and his WRs who for whatever reason were wide open. It was an offense that mitigated a lot of risk. He was a pocket passer who just settled in and never tried to do too much. Couple that with Sanchez's best strength is probably his deep ball, and I think he could run an offense that would move the chains enough to allow our defense to carry us into the playoffs and beyond. Don't know if we can get him, but I really think it'd be worth trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think the solution could be Charlie Weiss. Before Brady became Brady I remember him being a young QB who sat in the pocket, and found his backs a lot and his WRs who for whatever reason were wide open. It was an offense that mitigated a lot of risk. He was a pocket passer who just settled in and never tried to do too much. Couple that with Sanchez's best strength is probably his deep ball, and I think he could run an offense that would move the chains enough to allow our defense to carry us into the playoffs and beyond. Don't know if we can get him, but I really think it'd be worth trying. weiss is #2 on my list, for the sole fact that he turned that bird brain testeverde into a 3:1 td/int guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 We should sign Jason Campbell as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 weiss is #2 on my list, for the sole fact that he turned that bird brain testeverde into a 3:1 td/int guy Why do you think Martz is better than that. Right now I feel like it's better to have Sanchez running the Pats offense than the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Why do you think Martz is better than that. Right now I feel like it's better to have Sanchez running the Pats offense than the Rams. Cause martz has had success with more QB's, and Weiss's struggles at ND have soured me a bit.. (and i'm suspecting he ends up in NE anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Mike Martz is a whacko - no thanks. Don't need a risk taking OC with this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Why do you think Martz is better than that. Right now I feel like it's better to have Sanchez running the Pats offense than the Rams. Hard to compare. Both were obviously elite when paired with elite quarterbacks, but as far as the lesser quarterbacks go, Brady before Brady became Brady and even Vinny were a whole lot better than anything Martz had to work with after St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Mike Martz is a whacko - no thanks. Don't need a risk taking OC with this defense. what kind of defense is best paired with an aggressive offense? I'd say the eagles have had some sucess with aggressive offense/defense combo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Did I say anything about not being aggressive? I said risk-taking. They are not synonyms. Mike Martz offenses throw the ball like 75% of the time (too lazy to look for stats). With a D like the Jets have, you want an aggressive ground game to chew up clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Cause martz has had success with more QB's, and Weiss's struggles at ND have soured me a bit.. (and i'm suspecting he ends up in NE anyway) Weiss's failures at ND was not on the offensive side of the ball, but I agree that he'll probably be back in NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hard to compare. Both were obviously elite when paired with elite quarterbacks, but as far as the lesser quarterbacks go, Brady before Brady became Brady and even Vinny were a whole lot better than anything Martz had to work with after St. Louis. In your opinion, which I'm sure I already know, is it impossible to think that a carefully controlled Sanchez could not be a pre-Brady Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Can't see Weis going to another team in the same division as Belichick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Why don't you go back and list some of the guys who started so few games in college and failed in the NFL and I guarantee you can find 20 different reasons why each of them failed. Some they will have in common, others they will not. Since you asked, I found my old post where I listed them: Here are some comps for QB's spending less than 4 years in school with under 25 college starts: - Todd Marinovich - Tommy Maddox - Ryan Leaf - Michael Vick - Alex Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Since you asked, I found my old post where I listed them: Alex Smith could still pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Alex Smith could still pan out. Wow, totally derailed my argument right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Here are some comps for QB's spending less than 4 years in school with under 25 college starts: - Todd Marinovich - Tommy Maddox - Ryan Leaf - Michael Vick - Alex Smith Marinovich and Leaf were just simply bad seeds, Maddox has had some moments. I'm not a Vick fan, but the guy has done some winning in this league. His style of play is his problem, and has little to do with his experience in school. Sanchez has some talent, a solid work ethic, and seems to love the game. I really can't lump him in with the Ryan Leafs of this world. Lack of experience is his main problem, and we're going to get to watch him get some - for better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Wow, totally derailed my argument right there. He's having an ok season, his best to date. See how he is next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Jets are winning out and going to the playoffs!!! Do you enjoy getting let down? 95% of the Jet fans that still thought this team had a chance at the playoffs prior the Atlanta game now know that it would take a miracle for this team to reach the postseason. Then there is that other 5%, the area where guys like you and Irish Jet fit in, where you're just bat **** crazy and honestly believe we're going to take down Indianapolis and Cincinnati. The Jets go 8-8 at best. Maybe we can squeak out something against the Bengals. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 someone already posted this but what will happen: we will win in indy, all the stars will align to give us control of our own destiny, and after all that we will lose a heartbreaker in the last second to cincy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Do you enjoy getting let down? 95% of the Jet fans that still thought this team had a chance at the playoffs prior the Atlanta game now know that it would take a miracle for this team to reach the postseason. Then there is that other 5%, the area where guys like you and Irish Jet fit in, where you're just bat **** crazy and honestly believe we're going to take down Indianapolis and Cincinnati. The Jets go 8-8 at best. Maybe we can squeak out something against the Bengals. Maybe. again I point to 2002. It ain't over till its over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 again I point to 2002. It ain't over till its over The differentials in 2002 and 2009 are clear. 2002 means NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The differentials in 2002 and 2009 are clear. 2002 means NOTHING. Its happened before, it can happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Its happened before, it can happen again. Jet fans like you either: A. Haven't been following this team for more than a decade or B. Love pain even more than the regular Jet fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Did I say anything about not being aggressive? I said risk-taking. They are not synonyms. Mike Martz offenses throw the ball like 75% of the time (too lazy to look for stats). With a D like the Jets have, you want an aggressive ground game to chew up clock. Reid runs a pass happy offense as well.. And the offense you described is better served to protect a weak or average defense, what are we trying to hide with our defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Its happened before, it can happen again. And once a guy survived falling from a plane without a parachute but I wouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Marinovich and Leaf were just simply bad seeds, Maddox has had some moments. I'm not a Vick fan, but the guy has done some winning in this league. His style of play is his problem, and has little to do with his experience in school. Sanchez has some talent, a solid work ethic, and seems to love the game. I really can't lump him in with the Ryan Leafs of this world. Lack of experience is his main problem, and we're going to get to watch him get some - for better or worse. I'm not saying Sanchez is destined to be a bust... I'm simply reiterating that he would be the first QB in NFL history to have any reasonable measure of success (and live up to his draft status) with the little college experience he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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