Global Warming My Ass

[joebabyny]

what do you think "the rich" will do with an income cap? trust me these guys can't be beat - they have an army of high priced lawyers who do nothing but sit around all day and figure out how to avoid paying taxes. and if worse comes to worst, the brightest and most innovative minds we have (which are usually the richest and with good reason) will get in their leer jet and fly somewhere without an income cap. who will suffer most from an income cap? THE POOR as the rich leave the country or take the advice of their lawyers to move their business operations to eastern europe reducing tax revenues for slats' precious social programs.

Forget lawyers and gaming the system it is quite easy what happens when the rich are told they are capped out. THEY STOP PRODUCING. If the government tells me I can't make any more money for the work i do, i cut back on working. What is the point to me taking the capital risk of growing my business if I can't be rewarded. I stop hiring new people and I stop trying to expand, maybe I even figure out that it makes economic sense to scale back my operation and fire people. Tell me how any of that is good for the economy? How many people here work extra hours for free just to be good productive cogs in the economy? How many of you employees have money invested in the business?

I'll tell you one thing, until you have been captain of the ship, until you were the one to sign the companies checks, be the last one to get paid after all the people who work for you have been and the rent and utilities are taken care of, until it is you signing the paychecks, you really have no idea what it is like to be the boss and have that pressure. If someoene is going to go out there and create a business, create jobs, actually contribute to creating wealth in the economy, all at the risk of losing everything, than how can they be begrudged for how much they make.

[Guido Monzino]

Most bizarre weather thread I've ever seen

[johnny green balls]

Forget lawyers and gaming the system it is quite easy what happens when the rich are told they are capped out. THEY STOP PRODUCING. If the government tells me I can't make any more money for the work i do, i cut back on working. What is the point to me taking the capital risk of growing my business if I can't be rewarded. I stop hiring new people and I stop trying to expand, maybe I even figure out that it makes economic sense to scale back my operation and fire people. Tell me how any of that is good for the economy? How many people here work extra hours for free just to be good productive cogs in the economy? How many of you employees have money invested in the business?

I'll tell you one thing, until you have been captain of the ship, until you were the one to sign the companies checks, be the last one to get paid after all the people who work for you have been and the rent and utilities are taken care of, until it is you signing the paychecks, you really have no idea what it is like to be the boss and have that pressure. If someoene is going to go out there and create a business, create jobs, actually contribute to creating wealth in the economy, all at the risk of losing everything, than how can they be begrudged for how much they make.

you're on fire!

[joebabyny]

great great post Joseph

should have had patriotic music playing in background

lols, thanks. like I said, not trying to go political, just speaking from real life experience. As I have talked about elsewhere, a year ago I had to close my business when this recession really hit its peak. I had to let people go, after trying for months to keep it afloat with my savings so as to not have to see anyone out of a job, only to drain my savings and have to ultimately close anyway. Some of my employees understood and saw what I was trying to do, some didn't, but whatever.

I closed on a friday, woke up on monday and was faced with a morning for the first time since being diagnosed with cancer in 1995 at 18 that I did not have a job to go to, and vouched that I would not wake up another day with the same feeling of uselessness and disgust in myself, and I went and created a new opportunity for myself. Lord knows I haven't taken the easy roads in life, but I keep chugging along trying my hardest to get to the top of the hill.

[Garb]

Forget lawyers and gaming the system it is quite easy what happens when the rich are told they are capped out. THEY STOP PRODUCING. If the government tells me I can't make any more money for the work i do, i cut back on working. What is the point to me taking the capital risk of growing my business if I can't be rewarded. I stop hiring new people and I stop trying to expand, maybe I even figure out that it makes economic sense to scale back my operation and fire people. Tell me how any of that is good for the economy? How many people here work extra hours for free just to be good productive cogs in the economy? How many of you employees have money invested in the business?

I'll tell you one thing, until you have been captain of the ship, until you were the one to sign the companies checks, be the last one to get paid after all the people who work for you have been and the rent and utilities are taken care of, until it is you signing the paychecks, you really have no idea what it is like to be the boss and have that pressure. If someoene is going to go out there and create a business, create jobs, actually contribute to creating wealth in the economy, all at the risk of losing everything, than how can they be begrudged for how much they make.

Good post!

My BF tells me there are two different kind of workers in the world. Those that think big and take risks and do not put a cap on their earning potential and those that work for others (although we all work for others, don't we? Be it clients or shareholders). Anyway, I probably belong in the latter group - jumping without a parachute scares me.....but I'm sure as heck happy that the trailblazers exist. They DO create jobs, stimulate the economy and champion hope.

[joebabyny]

Most bizarre weather thread I've ever seen

lol, well, its a political hot button issue and effects the economy and other hot button issues so its to be expected i guess, lol. Just a good idea though to steer clear of politics, I agree with Maxxx.

[johnny green balls]

lols, thanks. like I said, not trying to go political, just speaking from real life experience.

funny how those with the least usually think they know the most, isn't it?

[joebabyny]

Good post!

My BF tells me there are two different kind of workers in the world. Those that think big and take risks and do not put a cap on their earning potential and those that work for others (although we all work for others, don't we? Be it clients or shareholders). Anyway, I probably belong in the latter group - jumping without a parachute scares me.....but I'm sure as heck happy that the trailblazers exist. They DO create jobs, stimulate the economy and champion hope.

That is most definitely the truth. Neither person is right or wrong, it's a personal decision based on what your goals are and what is important to you. For some people, security and steady paycheck is most important, for others freedom and greatest possible potential to earn is most important. I have seen both kind of people live happy lives and have seen both types live miserable lives.

The thing is, don't pick one side of the fence and then cry that the grass is greener on the other side. For the most part, because of the opportunity in this country we have all picked the side of the fence we want to be on, whether we realize it or not.

[johnny green balls]

Good post!

My BF tells me there are two different kind of workers in the world. Those that think big and take risks and do not put a cap on their earning potential and those that work for others (although we all work for others, don't we? Be it clients or shareholders). Anyway, I probably belong in the latter group - jumping without a parachute scares me.....but I'm sure as heck happy that the trailblazers exist. They DO create jobs, stimulate the economy and champion hope.

some people want to play it safe, some want to take risks, and a growing minority want to condemn the risk takers when they fail and confiscate the reward for themselves when they succeed.

[slats]

Forget lawyers and gaming the system it is quite easy what happens when the rich are told they are capped out. THEY STOP PRODUCING. If the government tells me I can't make any more money for the work i do, i cut back on working. What is the point to me taking the capital risk of growing my business if I can't be rewarded. I stop hiring new people and I stop trying to expand, maybe I even figure out that it makes economic sense to scale back my operation and fire people. Tell me how any of that is good for the economy? How many people here work extra hours for free just to be good productive cogs in the economy? How many of you employees have money invested in the business?

I'll tell you one thing, until you have been captain of the ship, until you were the one to sign the companies checks, be the last one to get paid after all the people who work for you have been and the rent and utilities are taken care of, until it is you signing the paychecks, you really have no idea what it is like to be the boss and have that pressure. If someoene is going to go out there and create a business, create jobs, actually contribute to creating wealth in the economy, all at the risk of losing everything, than how can they be begrudged for how much they make.

No one wants to take that away from you. There are people who want to scare you into believing that the big, bad liberals want to tax you to death and crush your business, but that's just to get you to keep voting the conservatives in power who will take all your money in other ways. They hope you won't miss it when 1/3 of your healthcare dollars go to insurance companies who do nothing for you but take their take. Stuff like that.

Big difference between Joebaby Inc. and the huge oil companies getting gov't subsidies to pay their executives huge bonuses to charge you more at the pump on holiday weekends.

[johnny green balls]

No one wants to take that away from you. There are people who want to scare you into believing that the big, bad liberals want to tax you to death and crush your business, but that's just to get you to keep voting the conservatives in power who will take all your money in other ways. They hope you won't miss it when 1/3 of your healthcare dollars go to insurance companies who do nothing for you but take their take. Stuff like that.

Big difference between Joebaby Inc. and the huge oil companies getting gov't subsidies to pay their executives huge bonuses to charge you more at the pump on holiday weekends.

i'm sure the al gore tax on gasoline has nothing to do with the ridiculous price of gas. and libs want to take all fossil fuels at an ever-increasing rate going forward.

funny you should bring up gasoline prices. also exxon's profit margin isn't ridiculous in the slightest. many companies make more.

[slats]

i'm sure the al gore tax on gasoline has nothing to do with the ridiculous price of gas. and libs want to take all fossil fuels at an ever-increasing rate going forward.

funny you should bring up gasoline prices. also exxon's profit margin isn't ridiculous in the slightest. many companies make more.

You were looking to take a thread about global warming and turn it into a discussion of Angelina Jolie's wages. I just thought it could use a turn back towards where it started.

[johnny green balls]

You were looking to take a thread about global warming and turn it into a discussion of Angelina Jolie's wages. I just thought it could use a turn back towards where it started.

not saying it's off topic, it just disproves your point which is why i'm surprised you brought it up

in basketball parlance you just committed an unforced error

[The Crusher]

That is most definitely the truth. Neither person is right or wrong, it's a personal decision based on what your goals are and what is important to you. For some people, security and steady paycheck is most important, for others freedom and greatest possible potential to earn is most important. I have seen both kind of people live happy lives and have seen both types live miserable lives.

The thing is, don't pick one side of the fence and then cry that the grass is greener on the other side. For the most part, because of the opportunity in this country we have all picked the side of the fence we want to be on, whether we realize it or not.

I have worked for myself since Ive started working. The reason.. I have a very hard head and get pissed off when people tell me what to do. So for the last 25 years I've run both my businesses and employ about 20 people and wouldn;t change it for the world. Sadly my divorce canceled out my first 10 years of earnings, but slowly coming back. Having 5 kids sorta skews the money to fun ratio. If you told me at 18 I'd make what I make and still be hustling the way I do, I'd never believe it. But still would never change a thing. Besides Im a little too fat to sit in a cubicle.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I have worked for myself since Ive started working. The reason.. I have a very hard head and get pissed off when people tell me what to do. So for the last 25 years I've run both my businesses and employ about 20 people and wouldn;t change it for the world. Sadly my divorce canceled out my first 10 years of earnings, but slowly coming back. Having 5 kids sorta skews the money to fun ratio. If you told me at 18 I'd make what I make and still be hustling the way I do, I'd never believe it. But still would never change a thing. Besides Im a little too fat to sit in a cubicle.

I can assume you were never in the military.

[joebabyny]

No one wants to take that away from you. There are people who want to scare you into believing that the big, bad liberals want to tax you to death and crush your business, but that's just to get you to keep voting the conservatives in power who will take all your money in other ways. They hope you won't miss it when 1/3 of your healthcare dollars go to insurance companies who do nothing for you but take their take. Stuff like that.

Big difference between Joebaby Inc. and the huge oil companies getting gov't subsidies to pay their executives huge bonuses to charge you more at the pump on holiday weekends.

Sorry, but I am not one of the uninformed so I know better than to think this all just affects the big corporations. A lot of these proposed taxes will effect plenty of small business owners too.

And you want to talk healthcare? I am a cancer survivor who has to keep going back to one of the best yet most expensive hospitals in the world for the rest of my life and has a laundry list of possible complications that will follow me like a black cloud for the rest of my life. I am forced to have to buy into one of those "cadillac healthcare programs" that congress deemed evil and thus subject to punitive taxes. Oh, unless you happened to get that plan through a union in which case certain members of congress saw to exempt those people after the unions let them know that that tax would hit them where it hurts, at the poles. So since most of those cadillac plans are used by unions and NOT corp employees, wwho does that leave behind? Small business owners and people who have to carry those plans out of necessity like me. So you mean to tell me it is right to hit me over the head with a punitve tax on a plan i need to have, while at the same time allowing some teacher to have it, while I already pay for this plan out of my own pocket as a self employed business owner?

That is just but one small example of how these measures will hit joebaby inc and not just big corporations. And don't tell me how the healthcare system does nothing except take my money, I am alive today because of the healthcare system in this country.

[slats]

not saying it's off topic, it just disproves your point which is why i'm surprised you brought it up

in basketball parlance you just committed an unforced error

Oil companies are making a fortune, and their subsidized by the gov't. For some reason, these subsidies are fine with conservatives but if the same dollar amount was used to build schools in poor neighborhoods it would equate to the burning of their tax dollars.

They made record profits in 2008, and were down (but far, far from out) in 2009. Think they won't be back up in 2010? C'mon.

[The Crusher]

I can assume you were never in the military.

Not even close dude. Both my father and my grandfather served and both agreed that I wasn;t cut out for it. My father used to slap me BEFORE he asked me to do something just to save time. LOL

[slats]

Sorry, but I am not one of the uninformed so I know better than to think this all just affects the big corporations. A lot of these proposed taxes will effect plenty of small business owners too.

And you want to talk healthcare? I am a cancer survivor who has to keep going back to one of the best yet most expensive hospitals in the world for the rest of my life and has a laundry list of possible complications that will follow me like a black cloud for the rest of my life. I am forced to have to buy into one of those "cadillac healthcare programs" that congress deemed evil and thus subject to punitive taxes. Oh, unless you happened to get that plan through a union in which case certain members of congress saw to exempt those people after the unions let them know that that tax would hit them where it hurts, at the poles. So since most of those cadillac plans are used by unions and NOT corp employees, wwho does that leave behind? Small business owners and people who have to carry those plans out of necessity like me. So you mean to tell me it is right to hit me over the head with a punitve tax on a plan i need to have, while at the same time allowing some teacher to have it, while I already pay for this plan out of my own pocket as a self employed business owner?

That is just but one small example of how these measures will hit joebaby inc and not just big corporations. And don't tell me how the healthcare system does nothing except take my money, I am alive today because of the healthcare system in this country.

I know you're a cancer survivor from reading the boards, and I wish you continued good health. I'm glad you've gotten the best treatment that you could.

My opinion of American healthcare is a little different after watching both my parents die in hospitals last year, my mother after getting shuffled around because her "Cadallac" gap health insurance wouldn't cover her extended stay, and she was moved to a sub-par long term care facility - the only one locally with a bed. It was an absolute nightmare.

The bottom line is that the only thing American healthcare is #1 in is in it's costs. You can get better care for less (or nothing) across the Canadian or (yes!) the Mexican border.

I don't mean to tell you in any way, shape, or form that it's right for you to be taxed for your healthcare plan. It sucks. Unfortunately, that's where the debate has gotten watered down to. It's always that way. The health insurance industry is a huge money maker, and they have the power to keep themselves in business. You should be at the front of the line for a single-payer system. You'd benefit more than most. But the insurance company interests have helped to frame the debate in a way that makes the gov't look like the bad guy. It's a shame.

[Greenranger]

I know you're a cancer survivor from reading the boards, and I wish you continued good health. I'm glad you've gotten the best treatment that you could.

My opinion of American healthcare is a little different after watching both my parents die in hospitals last year, my mother after getting shuffled around because her "Cadallac" gap health insurance wouldn't cover her extended stay, and she was moved to a sub-par long term care facility - the only one locally with a bed. It was an absolute nightmare.

The bottom line is that the only thing American healthcare is #1 in is in it's costs. You can get better care for less (or nothing) across the Canadian or (yes!) the Mexican border.

I don't mean to tell you in any way, shape, or form that it's right for you to be taxed for your healthcare plan. It sucks. Unfortunately, that's where the debate has gotten watered down to. It's always that way. The health insurance industry is a huge money maker, and they have the power to keep themselves in business. You should be at the front of the line for a single-payer system. You'd benefit more than most. But the insurance company interests have helped to frame the debate in a way that makes the gov't look like the bad guy. It's a shame.

It might be about even in Canada in terms of the quality, but the trick there is getting it at all. Everything is rationed by the government to a point that you have to wait weeks or months for something that you could get here in a matter of days. Which is why a lot of Canadians come here for healthcare.

[Maxman]

Like Verde mentioned earlier, please make this thread religious. Just want to make sure we touch on every topic we avoid here before we have to lock this one down. Thanks.

[124]

Like Verde mentioned earlier, please make this thread religious. Just want to make sure we touch on every topic we avoid here before we have to lock this one down. Thanks.

Okay. I'll use Jim Jeffries for this one...

"I know America is a religious country, but please know that you're wrong. Stop acting like a ****ing child. And nothing happens after your dead. And you know what? I won't even know when I'm dead, because I'll be ****ing dead.

Jews? Whats all that about?

Isn't Buddha a fat bastard?

Muslims. Can you feel that? Can you ****ing feel that? One word and I made your *******s shrink. Oh, oh, make it good funny Australlian man. Cause when you hear me say Muslims you think I'm about to be racist, but I have no problem with muslims, I like to eat food late at night."

Your welcome.

[The Crusher]

Like Verde mentioned earlier, please make this thread religious. Just want to make sure we touch on every topic we avoid here before we have to lock this one down. Thanks.

Amen. You may kiss the bride. Peace be with you.

[joebabyny]

Like Verde mentioned earlier, please make this thread religious. Just want to make sure we touch on every topic we avoid here before we have to lock this one down. Thanks.

Child please!

[Garb]

It might be about even in Canada in terms of the quality, but the trick there is getting it at all. Everything is rationed by the government to a point that you have to wait weeks or months for something that you could get here in a matter of days. Which is why a lot of Canadians come here for healthcare.

I've heard the same thing from a couple of folks who work in the med field in Canada. From what they have told me, waiting for a standard x-ray can take months. They say doc offices are ill-equipped. Not sure how that equates to the quality being better or equal to that of the US.

[JerryK]

Like Verde mentioned earlier, please make this thread religious. Just want to make sure we touch on every topic we avoid here before we have to lock this one down. Thanks.

ok, if you insist. I'll throw in some thoughts on my Baptist background. (If you're not sure who the Baptists are, wait until you die...then look up)

My side of the family is Baptist. My wife's is Catholic. I used to think Baptist was better but now I hang around in the middle, so I can get beer AND birth control.

Want to know the difference between a Baptist and a Catholic? A Catholic will say hello to you in the liquor store...we Baptists lurk in the back until the store is empty. And the old adage is true: Always take 2 Baptists fishing with you. If you take 1, he'll drink all your beer. If you take 2, they won't drink any.

So I was about to sell my house a few years back, digging up some weeds in the lawn, and my brother-in-law (from the Catholic side) came by. He said 'dude I've got you covered. This little statue is St Joseph. Bury him in your yard and you'll sell your house!". Apparently St Joseph is the patron saint of ripping people off. Heaven's used-car salesman. Anyhow, I didn't think it could hurt so I started digging and bam! I found one of those little bas$trds already in my lawn! I kept thinking..so THAT'S why I bought this dump! So now I want to go to heaven, just so I can find Joesph's office and kick his ass. "No maam, I don't have an appointment with Joseph, just tell him it's Jerry from 727 Walnut, and it's regarding a certain leaky roof". My point in all of this, if there is one, is this: Somewhere in Israel, isn't there a cemetary where the REAL St Joseph ...is BURIED? Have people been lining up to buy the place? "honey, look at that cemetary! Great Schools, close to shopping...room for a pony!".

That's all I have on the religion topic. Hope I was able to help.

[joebabyny]

I've heard the same thing from a couple of folks who work in the med field in Canada. From what they have told me, waiting for a standard x-ray can take months. They say doc offices are ill-equipped. Not sure how that equates to the quality being better or equal to that of the US.

What the free-tards don't understand is that we live in a world of limited resources. This is something you should learn in economics 101, right after TINSTAAFL. Pretty much everything around us that we consume is finite and limited, that goes for water, oil, and goods and services. There are only so many doctors, nurses, xray machines, and hospitals.If healthcare were free (although never actually free as per that first thing you learn in economics, TINSTAAFL) there would be a run on services and the heathcare system would collapse or drastic rationing would take place. MAKE NO MISTAKE, rationing would HAVE to happen, too many people who now had a free pass to check themselves into the hospital for the littlest thing and bamm, now you have lines out the door for the truly sick.

I came out of a shower on a friday afternoon and noticed a decent lump in my armpit, in 20 minutes i was in front of my doctor. 15 minutes later i was at a radiologist getting an xray. That monday morning i was in the hospital in brooklyn getting a biopsy and a half hour after the anesthesia wore off I was sitting in the waiting room at memorial sloan kettering in the city that same monday. By thursday evening I had been through countless xrays, ctscans, ecg, bone marrow scans, galium scan, 24 hour heart monitor, 4 different doctors and assorted RNs, and a sperm bank to make a deposit for safe keeping, and was now in my doctors office discussing my first chemo treatment which was to start the following morning, friday. I saw a lump on a friday afternoon and by the following friday they had the good stuff pumping and burning through my veins like a lava chute.

I would love to hear of a canadian or any other social system that gets a regular middle class guy into the best care in the world in 7 days like that. Canada and England and everywhere else can take their free healthcare and shove it up their @ss, I will pay to live, i feel i am worth it.

And beleive me, i am sharing my stories not to gain any kind of sympathy or woe is me crap or anything like that. I am sharing them because I have real world first hand experience of the healthcare system as it pertains to extremely life threatening, complex, and expensive conditions. And unless you were the one that sat in the chair and had the hard choices put to them and they were the one with their head in the toilet at 3am, or the one that had to have half their nuts shaved by a dude or go to a sperm bank to jack off with their mother in tow, well, you have no idea, lol. The American healthcare system creates miracles every day, people come from all over the world to either have a miracle performed on them or to practice medicine and be the miracle worker. We have doctors who give of themselves tirelessly traveling to unfortunate countries, we pioneer new treatments and procedures, oh, and btw, 85% of its citizens have healthcare coverage to pay for it and the government has (but needs better) safety nets to provide for those who have a tough time getting into that 85%.

[joebabyny]

btw, i am sorry max! lol, I'll walk away now.

[slowmoe57]

LOL. Yeah, because the Democrats really put out a winner there in 2004.

There wasn't anyone to contend with Bush in 04, and the nation ONLY went with him because A. Time of War and B. Because Kerry was actually a bigger dope than Bush was, at least on the outside. Maybe not on the inside, and a lot of those people wish they went with Kerry after Bush started his second term.

Maybe if you're moronic Republican candidate didn't pick some bimbo bitch to run alongside him I'M A HAWCKEY MOM! LOL ADHAHPAGOAGAG .. you wouldn't have to complain about Obama.

1st ---what the hell did I start here I left yesterday there were 50 posts --

2nd -- The reason you mention above is the reason I did not vote last year.

I know I am not allowed to complain -- so I will not anymore.

[Klecko73isGod]

Holy crap! This thread is still going on?

[JerryK]

Holy crap! This thread is still going on?

I've made my contribution, and I only did it because Max said to.

[Klecko73isGod]

I've made my contribution, and I only did it because Max said to.

I was done with it when I left work yesterday. It fulfilled its purpose, which was getting me through the last hour of the day.

[crashingjet]

I just want in before the lockdown.

[Verde]

I'm actually very amazed at how relatively civil this thread has been, considering the subject matter.

[johnny green balls]

Oil companies are making a fortune, and their subsidized by the gov't. For some reason, these subsidies are fine with conservatives but if the same dollar amount was used to build schools in poor neighborhoods it would equate to the burning of their tax dollars.

They made record profits in 2008, and were down (but far, far from out) in 2009. Think they won't be back up in 2010? C'mon.

"record profits" nice spin. anyone who has any intellectual honesty would compare PROFIT MARGINS and not just the bottom line number. oil companies must spend (i.e. RISK) a vast amount to earn what they earn.

exxon's profit margin is 6.77% (for every dollar in gas exxon sells only 6.7 cents is profit) while apple's is over 20% so in actuality apple is much more guilty of "gouging" than exxon is and at least exxon produces a fungible product whose price is controlled by competition whereas apple has a virtual monopoly and charges out the wazoo for its products. but you don't hear liberals complaining about apple for some reason.

that's because it's not really about profits, is it? it's about making profits on products liberals love to hate. oil bad, ipod and iphones good so it's ok to fleece people with a 20% markup on those "cool" items. same reason why liberals hate it when CEOs make a lot of money but don't care at all when "cool" actors and actresses pull in $20 million for 6 months on a movie set.

PROFIT MARGIN DATA:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=XOM

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=AAPL