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J. Vilma Just took a shot at the Jets


villain_the_foe
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Just seen it on ESPN.

He said.

Jonothan Vilma of the J-------, Superbowl New Orleans Saints. WHo dat said they were gonna beat us!

Yet another LB that we drafted, gave to another team and he goes on to win a superbowl.

Shyte is becoming too common.

Aw, horseshyte. he's too small to play the 3-4, and he gets knocked on his ass by guards when he does. It would have been no different under Ryan than it was under Mangini. If you put any decent LB in the 4-3 MLB spot he's not going to face blocking schemes that you would in the 3-4 asan ILB.

You like Ryan's defense? I do. And a guy like Vilma would be useless in it.

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Aw, horseshyte. he's too small to play the 3-4, and he gets knocked on his ass by guards when he does. It would have been no different under Ryan than it was under Mangini. If you put any decent LB in the 4-3 MLB spot he's not going to face blocking schemes that you would in the 3-4 asan ILB.

You like Ryan's defense? I do. And a guy like Vilma would be useless in it.

Exactly. +1. And how did he take a shot at the Jets again?

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Aw, horseshyte. he's too small to play the 3-4, and he gets knocked on his ass by guards when he does. It would have been no different under Ryan than it was under Mangini. If you put any decent LB in the 4-3 MLB spot he's not going to face blocking schemes that you would in the 3-4 asan ILB.

You like Ryan's defense? I do. And a guy like Vilma would be useless in it.

Guys, I've said this before time and time again, but I'll say it again ...

The traditional 3-4 defense usually requires big inside linebacklers to take on O-linemen.

However, Rex Ryan's defense is NOT a traditional 3-4 defense ... it has more of the traits of the 46 defense, where, on most plays, the offensive guards are covered, and because of the complex blitx schemes with the defensive backs, the linebackers are free to make plays, which is why Harris is a tackling machine.

You really don't need to be an oversized ILB in Ryan's system to succeed.

That said, at the time Vilma was traded, it was Mangini's traditional 3-4, which is a defense that Vilma would have had trouble excelling in.

Vilma could have been a big part of Ryan's defense, but would have floundered in Mangini's, which is why he was traded.

You can't get on the Jets for trading Vilma because there was no way to know at the time, that Mangini's defense would be replaced by Ryan within 2 years.

I'm glad for Vilma. He was a good player for us when he was here and went to a system that he could excel in.

He was one of the best players on field tonight.

Edited by JoeWillie
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Guys, I've said this before time and time again, but I'll say it again ...

The traditional 3-4 defense usually requires big inside linebacklers to take on O-linemen.

However, Rex Ryan's defense is NOT a traditional 3-4 defense ... it has more of the traits of the 46 defense, where, on most plays, the offensive guards are covered, and because of the complex blitx schemes with the defensive backs, the linebackers are free to make plays, which is why Harris is a tackling machine.

You really don't need to be an oversized ILB in Ryan's system to succeed.

That said, at the time Vilma was traded, it was Mangini's traditional 3-4, which is a defense that Vilma would have had trouble excelling in.

Vilma could have been a big part of Ryan's defense, but would have floundered in Mangini's, which is why he was traded.

You can't get on the Jets for trading Vilma because there was no way to know at the time, that Mangini's defense would be replaced by Ryan within 2 years.

I'm glad for Vilma. He was a good player for us when he was here and went to a system that he could excel in.

He was one of the best players defensive players on field tonight.

Anybody with a last name that doensn't rhyme with olston can succeed in a Rex Ryan defense...but as you said, Vilma really has 0 purpose on our team and it was best for both teams to part ways at the time. Obviously no one knew Rex would be our new coach and Vilma would have a purpose once again.

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Anybody with a last name that doensn't rhyme with olston can succeed in a Rex Ryan defense...but as you said, Vilma really has 0 purpose on our team and it was best for both teams to part ways at the time. Obviously no one knew Rex would be our new coach and Vilma would have a purpose once again.

You're absolutely right.

It's amazing that a guy drafted 6th overall can't succeed in this defense.

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What he talking crap when he missed that tackle allowing a huge run.

He's a good player. He's not great. We traded him off of an injury as a misfit player in the defense with one year left on his contract. Oh well.

His breakup of a deep post pattern to Collie was a key play in the game.

edit- just saw my new vCash total. Did very good with SB bets. Finally back into 5 digits! Well, it resets tomorrow anyway.

Edited by Mentos
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What he talking crap when he missed that tackle allowing a huge run.

He's a good player. He's not great. We traded him off of an injury as a misfit player in the defense with one year left on his contract. Oh well.

absolutely right. Totally agree. I just didnt quite expect him to say the "J" as if he were going to say "JETS" and then say "Super bowl Champion Saints". I guess how he left rubbed him the wrong way but I liked Vilma since the U and I wanted him to come here even before draft so I was happy when we landed him.

It just struck me when I heard him say that, kinda forgetting that its a love for me but a business for him you know. I didnt expect for hiim to even feel such a way for him to rub it in in a way.

It is what it is though. Great for him. Just because we traded him doesnt mean that I dont like him. I think he's pretty good. He did miss a tackle for a huge run but he also broke up a td pass to Clarke from running up and across the field to do so.

He's not the best but he aint trash though.

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vil... i dont think there was a shot at the jets... .i didint even hear a J.. there was a pause.. but anyone on the saint would feel like there was being the underdog and want to rub in that they are the champs..

There was a "J". someone else here even caught it.

in the beginning of the Sportscenter i think he was bout to say this is Jonathan Vilma of the Jets lol
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Just seen it on ESPN.

He said.

Jonothan Vilma of the J-------, Superbowl New Orleans Saints. WHo dat said they were gonna beat us!

Yet another LB that we drafted, gave to another team and he goes on to win a superbowl.

Shyte is becoming too common.

He didn't fit our system. Too small. End of story.

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Guys, I've said this before time and time again, but I'll say it again ...

The traditional 3-4 defense usually requires big inside linebacklers to take on O-linemen.

However, Rex Ryan's defense is NOT a traditional 3-4 defense ... it has more of the traits of the 46 defense, where, on most plays, the offensive guards are covered, and because of the complex blitx schemes with the defensive backs, the linebackers are free to make plays, which is why Harris is a tackling machine.

You really don't need to be an oversized ILB in Ryan's system to succeed.

That said, at the time Vilma was traded, it was Mangini's traditional 3-4, which is a defense that Vilma would have had trouble excelling in.

Vilma could have been a big part of Ryan's defense, but would have floundered in Mangini's, which is why he was traded.

Where, in Rex Ryan's history, has a tiny LB ever succeeded? The Ravens LB's have always been huge. Vilma is 225 lbs soaking wet. David Harris is almost 240 and built like a brick. Bart Scott is a big dude, and the OLB's are stand-up DE's, both here and in Baltimore.

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Where, in Rex Ryan's history, has a tiny LB ever succeeded? The Ravens LB's have always been huge. Vilma is 225 lbs soaking wet. David Harris is almost 240 and built like a brick. Bart Scott is a big dude, and the OLB's are stand-up DE's, both here and in Baltimore.

I was about to say the same thing...undersized ILB dont work in Rex's system at all because of the physical abuse they take when they go up against Guards over and over again.

And the conversation is futile since we traded him when Mangini was here...Rex had nothing to do with it.

Congrats to Vilma. Dont know why he want to diss the Jets. He went to a better team. He should be glad he was traded.

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Aw, horseshyte. he's too small to play the 3-4, and he gets knocked on his ass by guards when he does. It would have been no different under Ryan than it was under Mangini. If you put any decent LB in the 4-3 MLB spot he's not going to face blocking schemes that you would in the 3-4 asan ILB.

You like Ryan's defense? I do. And a guy like Vilma would be useless in it.

I'm not bitter that we gave up Vilma. Happens all the time, so I agree with that part of your statement

However, the rest I do not. RYAN is NOT MANGINI. He's not RIGID. Ryan is smart enough to be FLEXIBLE, and adjust to WHAT THE PLAYERS CAN DO.

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Where, in Rex Ryan's history, has a tiny LB ever succeeded? The Ravens LB's have always been huge. Vilma is 225 lbs soaking wet. David Harris is almost 240 and built like a brick. Bart Scott is a big dude, and the OLB's are stand-up DE's, both here and in Baltimore.

Again, whether it's the 46 as a 3-4 alignment like Ryan plays or Mangini's 3-4 like Parcells and Bellicheat designed, playing inside requires taking on blocks of interior OL guys, and Vilma is too small to do that. As an MLB in the 4-3, he gets free reign. Look at Adalius Thomas and then look at Vilma; there's a reason one plays in ther 3-4 and one plays in the 4-3. Vilma got blown out a lot playing in the 3-4 here.

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The Jets were able to take away Dallas Clark to a large degree in their 2 games with the Colts.

What ultimately cost the Jets were nickel and dime CB's as well as a bookend CB to Revis.

THAT is how the Jets catch up to the Colts, certainly not thinking what could have been with Jonathan Vilma.

Your logic and evidence have no business here, Dierking.

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Where, in Rex Ryan's history, has a tiny LB ever succeeded? The Ravens LB's have always been huge. Vilma is 225 lbs soaking wet. David Harris is almost 240 and built like a brick. Bart Scott is a big dude, and the OLB's are stand-up DE's, both here and in Baltimore.

Vilma is not tiny, he's 6'1 230 lbs.

Bart Scott is 6'2 240 lbs.

David Harris is 6'2 245 lbs.

Ray Lewis is 6'1 250 lbs.

Dannell Ellerbe (starting LB for the Ravens who still play Rex's defense) is 6'1 228 lbs.

Again, Rex does not play a "traditional" 3-4 defense ... it has more similarities to the Bear "46" than the traditional 3-4 because on many of his defensive schemes the center and two guards are covered by the NT and DE's. That's what the 46 is.

And I'll remind you that the Bear 46 defense was anchored in the middle by one of the great LB's of all time, Mike Singletary who was all of 6' 230 lbs, himself.

Vilma could have played in this system and played well because he's a good football player who has a nose for the ball.

Just my opinion.

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Vilma is not tiny, he's 6'1 230 lbs.

Bart Scott is 6'2 240 lbs.

David Harris is 6'2 245 lbs.

Ray Lewis is 6'1 250 lbs.

Dannell Ellerbe (starting LB for the Ravens who still play Rex's defense) is 6'1 228 lbs.

Again, Rex does not play a "traditional" 3-4 defense ... it has more similarities to the Bear "46" than the traditional 3-4 because on many of his defensive schemes the center and two guards are covered by the NT and DE's. That's what the 46 is.

And I'll remind you that the Bear 46 defense was anchored in the middle by one of the great LB's of all time, Mike Singletary who was all of 6' 230 lbs, himself.

Vilma could have played in this system and played well because he's a good football player who has a nose for the ball.

Just my opinion.

Joe you are 100% correct, my opinion.

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I didn't hear anything that came close to the Jets when I saw this...

Also its not like Vilma was a 10 year member of the team and had this huge falling out...he was here for a few years and it looked like both sides were happy to part ways...I HIGHLY doubt the team he played for years ago was anywhere near Vilmas mind a few moments after winning the Superbowl...

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here's the problem-

Rex was not the coach that jettisoned Vilma away, because they felt he was an ill fit for the Rex defense.

Vilma was sent because he did not fit the Mangini defense.

And there you have it.

Yes you are correct he didnt fit in Mangina the geniuses defensive plans.

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The Jets were able to take away Dallas Clark to a large degree in their 2 games with the Colts.

What ultimately cost the Jets were nickel and dime CB's as well as a bookend CB to Revis.

THAT is how the Jets catch up to the Colts, certainly not thinking what could have been with Jonathan Vilma.

+1

Watching that game last night, I think we might have won with a better passing game too. Once Greene went out, we were basically done. If we could have responded to their points like the Saints did last night, they might have crumbled. How many unanswered points did they score against us?

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here's the problem-

Rex was not the coach that jettisoned Vilma away, because they felt he was an ill fit for the Rex defense.

Vilma was sent because he did not fit the Mangini defense.

And there you have it.

I agree with you and in fact, said that in a different thread a week or so ago.

I'm not bashing the Jets for trading Vilma. As you said, in Mangini's traditional 3-4 defense, he wasn't a fit and I agree with that.

The issue here was whether Vilma could have played in Ryan's system if he were still around.

I believe he could have for all the reasons I put forth earlier.

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Vilma is not tiny, he's 6'1 230 lbs.

Bart Scott is 6'2 240 lbs.

David Harris is 6'2 245 lbs.

Ray Lewis is 6'1 250 lbs.

Dannell Ellerbe (starting LB for the Ravens who still play Rex's defense) is 6'1 228 lbs.

Again, Rex does not play a "traditional" 3-4 defense ... it has more similarities to the Bear "46" than the traditional 3-4 because on many of his defensive schemes the center and two guards are covered by the NT and DE's. That's what the 46 is.

And I'll remind you that the Bear 46 defense was anchored in the middle by one of the great LB's of all time, Mike Singletary who was all of 6' 230 lbs, himself.

Vilma could have played in this system and played well because he's a good football player who has a nose for the ball.

Just my opinion.

I think you are underestimating how much an inch and 10 lbs means when taking on guards the way Scott and Harris do. Vilma wants to run around untouched. He doesnt want to go up against OG every play and try to shed blocks...he wants to run free.

And you're other 2 examples. Ellerbe is not very good and doesnt fit the system. He never played for Rex or in Rex's system. And IMO its not fair to compare players from 25 years ago....much different game now.

I like Harris and Scott better than Vilma, so either way I'm happy.

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Just seen it on ESPN.

He said.

Jonothan Vilma of the J-------, Superbowl New Orleans Saints. WHo dat said they were gonna beat us!

Yet another LB that we drafted, gave to another team and he goes on to win a superbowl.

Shyte is becoming too common.

Nonsense. Total utter nonsense. Congrats to Vilma. A very good player that didn't fit the scheme...at the time....which, now that I think about it, is ironic. Farrior didn't fit our 4-3, goes on to win a SB in a 3-4...Vilma didn't fit our 3-4, goes on to win a SB in a 4-3. Actually, WTF???

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I think you are underestimating how much an inch and 10 lbs means when taking on guards the way Scott and Harris do. Vilma wants to run around untouched. He doesnt want to go up against OG every play and try to shed blocks...he wants to run free.

And you're other 2 examples. Ellerbe is not very good and doesnt fit the system. He never played for Rex or in Rex's system. And IMO its not fair to compare players from 25 years ago....much different game now.

I like Harris and Scott better than Vilma, so either way I'm happy.

For those of you who don't know the principles of the the "46" defense, here's a good article written about it when Rex Ryan became defensive coordinator of the Ravens back in 2005. He basically speaks of what I've been trying to say in this thread and others. The Jets defensive alignment only resembles the 3-4 because they usually lineup with 3 down linemen. But the reality is that the defense they play actually has more of the traits of the 46 because because their schemes get a hat on each offensive linemen, freeing up the inside backers to make plays.

"Big" and "fast" is always is preferable, but you don't need to be oversized to play well in this defense.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ray Lewis ready to wreak havoc in 46 defense

OWINGS MILLS, Md. (AP) — No one is happier to be a part of the Baltimore Ravens' new 46 defense than middle linebacker Ray Lewis, who can't wait to again experience the freedom of hunting down running backs without the hassle of shaking off bothersome offensive linemen.

The 46 defense was originally devised by Buddy Ryan for the 1986 Chicago Bears, who won a Super Bowl behind the standout play of middle linebacker Mike Singletary. Ryan is the father of Ravens first-year defensive coordinator Rex Ryan, who has installed the high-pressure alignment in part to allow Lewis to attack the football without having to take on the kind of isolation blocks that at times limited his effectiveness last season in the Ravens traditional 3-4.

The 46, with it's complex blitz packages ties up offensive linemen and frees up the inside linebackers to make plays.

"Running the 46 is the offensive equivolent to telling your premier running back that you're going to make sure he's not going to be touched in a football game," Lewis said during the team's recent four-day mandatory minicamp. "To come into camp and have my defensive coordinator tell me I'm not going to be touched, I'm like a little kid all over again."

Playing last season in the 3-4 alignment of defensive coordinator Mike Nolan, who left to become head coach of the San Francisco 49ers, Lewis led the Ravens with 200 tackles and was selected to play in the Pro Bowl for a seventh time. But his effectiveness was completely dependent upon his ability to battle through the isolation blocks of opposing linemen.

That won't be a problem this season in Ryan's system.

"We're excited about getting the bull's-eye off Ray," Rex Ryan said. "He doesn't need to be a nose guard this year. We should be in great shape against the running game. In this defense, you don't have a blocker for Ray."

Head coach Brian Billick said, "It fits Ray and his expertise in the middle. I can't speak for Ray, but I would think he's very excited about the potential this holds."

Now in his 10th season, Lewis made a name for himself early in his career by tracking down running backs and dropping them with ferocious tackles. If all goes as planned, he will return to that role in 2005.

"That's what I do. I don't try to bash people and try to get to the football. I get to the running back," Lewis said. "No running back wants to face me in this league."

The Ravens' defense last year restricted Lewis from running free, but he won't have that problem this year in Ryan's "linebacker-friendly" defense.

Edited by JoeWillie
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