What makes Herm a good coach?

[PETROCK]

There are some people on this board who think that Herm can do no wrong. That he's such a great coach.

Personally I think he's a nice guy, who can't coach a pro team to save his life.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I don't see something in Herm that posters such as BZ or Bitonti do.

What makes Herm such a great coach to some people?

[BwanaZulia]

First of all, I never said he could do no wrong. He is certainly human and a new HC in terms of how many years he has been doing it.

I will point out what I think are some of the obvious points.

Integrity: When I see him or hear him speak about an issues I know he has a moral fiber and the ability to stick by it. While the NY media and others (ahem) want to try to spin his words or make him out to be something else, Herm is a stand up guy and his players know that about him. Other players from other teams want to play for him (Ty Law) and that helps the team get talent.

Motivation: Certainly the most obvious of all of his positives. He has the ability to make his team believe in him, the plan, and themselves. He gets them to fight every minutes of every game with or without the starters. He has shown, again and again, that he can get his players back in the game after a big loss or a horrible first half. He makes those games competitive and worth watching. He will keep his team ready to win at any point and not that they always do, but they believe they can.

Likeability: His players like him. They WANT to play for him and they want to play hard. They trust him because he was a long time player and guy who wouldn't say no, and wouldn't quit.

Persistence: I know this is where most of the Herm Haters like to call him stubborn and that he has no ability to change, but I think it is a valuable trait. He does not just give up on the game plan or the game or the season. He sticks by players and gives them the chance to shine, to make that extra play. Most think he is padding the starters numbers, but I don't think he is. I think he knows these players are giving the team the best chance to win and just because you saw some guy make a good play in the pre-season doesn't mean he will come in and be better than a starter who is struggling.

Just to prove that I am not blind, I will also point out his weaknesses.

Time Management: Obvious. Clear and no longer an issues as the Dinger runs the clock.

Inexperience: It shows up in games now and again. He has only been a HC for 5 years and that is not a long time. He makes mistakes on plays, on calls and sometimes in personnel. All coaches make mistakes and bad calls, even the best, so to hang him out to dry because of them is short-sighted.

No Edge: I think Herm needs more of an edge. He needs to be able to tell reporters to go stuff. He needs to get on players now and again. Some players thrive on that, some do not, but he needs to get a bit more gritty with those players that need it. Herm, as most humans in our society, wants to be liked so he gets caught in those awkward moments of trying to be witty with the press that just don't work.

BZ

[bitonti]

first off I don't believe Herm is a genius level coach by any means. I merely believe he is not as horrible as people say.

without getting into it two deeply there are too superficial ways of judging the performance of a head coach: team disipline and playoff appearances.

these are yardsticks by which the entire league measures coaching.

The Jets since 2001 have been the least penalized, least turnover prone team in the league (also best turnover ratio, which means they are getting the ball from other teams) - stuff like that wins games. As for the playoffs i know everyone blithely glosses over the 3 out of 4 appearances but you can't win it unless you are in it - when it's January and there are only 8 teams left in all of football still playing, and the Jets are one of them, that's a sign of good coaching. his teams play better later in the year than early and they play great when their backs are against the wall. In general I think Herm is a far better coach than people give him credit for. Why that is, i can't say for sure but i think his general attitude rubs people the wrong way.

[PETROCK]

While the NY media and others (ahem) want to try to spin his words or make him out to be something else, Herm is a stand up guy and his players know that about him.

What (ahem)?

I have never tried to spin Herms words, in fact I have given him credit in the past.

He sticks by players and gives them the chance to shine, to make that extra play.

He does huh? Tell that to Bollinger.

[bitonti]

He does huh? Tell that to Bollinger.

Herm did the right thing and put in a QB that could save the season. Bollinger is, was and always will be HORRIBLE.

[BwanaZulia]

What (ahem)?

I have never tried to spin Herms words, in fact I have given him credit in the past.

He does huh? Tell that to Bollinger.

And when did Herm say to Bollinger, "Brooksie, you are going to start for the rest of the year, no matter how bad you really are."

He didn't. He was actually pretty cagey, saying that Brooks would start that week and we shall see. We did see and now Vinny is starting.

BZ

[PETROCK]

Herm did the right thing and put in a QB that could save the season. Bollinger is, was and always will be HORRIBLE.

What makes you say that? The kid has had one start at that was a game where his coach basically handcuffed him for the entire game. Ok so he couldn't get in the end zone when the Jets took the fubmle recovery to the 1 yard line. I admit that's pretty bad, but Herm didn't even allow the kid to throw the ball in that situation.

If the Giants hadn't stuck with Eli Manning last season and sacrificed last season so he could get some actual live game experience, who knows how bad they would be.

[PETROCK]

And when did Herm say to Bollinger, "Brooksie, you are going to start for the rest of the year, no matter how bad you really are."

He didn't. He was actually pretty cagey, saying that Brooks would start that week and we shall see. We did see and now Vinny is starting.

BZ

As far as I know, Herm never said that. All I'm saying is that Herm never really gave him a chance. Would I have rather Herm start Bollinger last Sunday, it's hard to say because Vinnie got the win. Before Sundays game I would have wanted Bollinger to start. I can't argure with a QB who gets a win for his team.

[SouthernJet]

First of all, I never said he could do no wrong. He is certainly human and a new HC in terms of how many years he has been doing it.

I will point out what I think are some of the obvious points.

Integrity: When I see him or hear him speak about an issues I know he has a moral fiber and the ability to stick by it. While the NY media and others (ahem) want to try to spin his words or make him out to be something else, Herm is a stand up guy and his players know that about him. Other players from other teams want to play for him (Ty Law) and that helps the team get talent.

Motivation: Certainly the most obvious of all of his positives. He has the ability to make his team believe in him, the plan, and themselves. He gets them to fight every minutes of every game with or without the starters. He has shown, again and again, that he can get his players back in the game after a big loss or a horrible first half. He makes those games competitive and worth watching. He will keep his team ready to win at any point and not that they always do, but they believe they can.

Likeability: His players like him. They WANT to play for him and they want to play hard. They trust him because he was a long time player and guy who wouldn't say no, and wouldn't quit.

Persistence: I know this is where most of the Herm Haters like to call him stubborn and that he has no ability to change, but I think it is a valuable trait. He does not just give up on the game plan or the game or the season. He sticks by players and gives them the chance to shine, to make that extra play. Most think he is padding the starters numbers, but I don't think he is. I think he knows these players are giving the team the best chance to win and just because you saw some guy make a good play in the pre-season doesn't mean he will come in and be better than a starter who is struggling.

Just to prove that I am not blind, I will also point out his weaknesses.

Time Management: Obvious. Clear and no longer an issues as the Dinger runs the clock.

Inexperience: It shows up in games now and again. He has only been a HC for 5 years and that is not a long time. He makes mistakes on plays, on calls and sometimes in personnel. All coaches make mistakes and bad calls, even the best, so to hang him out to dry because of them is short-sighted.

No Edge: I think Herm needs more of an edge. He needs to be able to tell reporters to go stuff. He needs to get on players now and again. Some players thrive on that, some do not, but he needs to get a bit more gritty with those players that need it. Herm, as most humans in our society, wants to be liked so he gets caught in those awkward moments of trying to be witty with the press that just don't work.

BZ

good lord,,this guy just roasted herm nad didnt know it,,,

hahahaaha

he listed his top 4 points and none of them had a damn thing to do about strategy and game management,,,he basically listed the top traits you want to see in a cub scout leader or a high school teacher...

[bitonti]

What makes you say that? The kid has had one start at that was a game where his coach basically handcuffed him for the entire game.

The players didn't believe in Brooks it was apparent. They didn't think they had a chance to win, so they didn't. The team didn't believe in Brooks and neither do I.

[Savage69]

What makes you say that? The kid has had one start at that was a game where his coach basically handcuffed him for the entire game. Ok so he couldn't get in the end zone when the Jets took the fubmle recovery to the 1 yard line. I admit that's pretty bad, but Herm didn't even allow the kid to throw the ball in that situation.

If the Giants hadn't stuck with Eli Manning last season and sacrificed last season so he could get some actual live game experience, who knows how bad they would be.

All one needs to know about Hermie is if he took a Machine Gun and killed 50 people the same Hermophiles would be on the Board saying;What a great Guy Herm is getting all those people to Heaven early! Herm gets up to 25 grand a speech to talk! That he does well! He's a Great person and a great cook! But did he get the job on merit by working his way up?? No..And before the Hermophiles say did Reid or Tice? I say just because some other Teams take chances with unknowns does that mean we have to?? Like the old saying if Mrs Jones Kid jumps off a bridge does our kid have to also? And did they have the choice of Fox or Lewis to chose from??

[PETROCK]

The players didn't believe in Brooks it was apparent. They didn't think they had a chance to win, so they didn't. The team didn't believe in Brooks and neither do I.

You're right.

If a coach or the players don't believe in a QB, that QB doesn't stand a chance. But still, for a young QB to be given 1 chance as a starter, isn't enough in my book.

I guess this is Bollingers last year as a Jet then. I hope he doesn't go to Miami or Buffalo and become this great QB who beats the Jets ever time.

[LionelRichie]

The players didn't believe in Brooks it was apparent. They didn't think they had a chance to win, so they didn't. The team didn't believe in Brooks and neither do I.

herm was the one who didn't think the team had a chance, hence the high school gameplan against balt. 5 first half passes? none on first down. that was the first game in herm's tenure that i saw him pack it in - hello you play to win the game?

[bitonti]

5 first half passes? none on first down.

that's completely untrue. There were several passes on first down in the second quarter, Brooks didn't convert. Go check the play by play. People see what they want to see.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051002_NYJ@BAL

[BwanaZulia]

good lord,,this guy just roasted herm nad didnt know it,,,

hahahaaha

he listed his top 4 points and none of them had a damn thing to do about strategy and game management,,,he basically listed the top traits you want to see in a cub scout leader or a high school teacher...

Actually, those are all traits of a leader.

BZ

[PETROCK]

that's completely untrue. There were several passes on first down in the second quarter, Brooks didn't convert. Go check the play by play. People see what they want to see.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051002_NYJ@BAL

From what I remember, and I could be wrong, but there were more than a few times that players dropped balls that should have been caught.

[bitonti]

serious question why do you ask a question when you don't want to hear the answer? You come around "what makes Herm a good coach" people write you responses and you go on thinking whatever you wanted to think in the first place?

[SouthernJet]

Actually, those are all traits of a leader.

BZ

ya for a cub scout leader,,are you just that naive,,it would be nice to have a football coach have as one of his TOP FOUR traits strategy or game planning or game management,,,

man, you just keep makin the case against him,, you are becoming quite hilarious at your naivete.

[Preston Howley III]

The players didn't believe in Brooks it was apparent. They didn't think they had a chance to win, so they didn't. The team didn't believe in Brooks and neither do I.

Is that a nice way of saying the team layed down like a rug on Brooks? If they did, that's a reflection on the HC.

[BwanaZulia]

ya for a cub scout leader,,are you just that naive,,it would be nice to have a football coach have as one of his TOP FOUR traits strategy or game planning or game management,,,

man, you just keep makin the case against him,, you are becoming quite hilarious at your naivete.

Those aren't his top four traits yet we end up with winning seasons and trips to the playoffs.

Funny how that happens.

BZ

[SouthernJet]

Those aren't his top four traits yet we end up with winning seasons and trips to the playoffs.

Funny how that happens.

BZ

ya be satisfied with a team that should have had home field advanatage if it werent for the game strategy snafu's...

man, easy eddie....

[BwanaZulia]

ya be satisfied with a team that should have had home field advanatage if it werent for the game strategy snafu's...

man, easy eddie....

I am not satisfied at all but I look around the league at all the brilliant game planning coaches who sit in January watching the Jets in the playoffs and it makes me wonder if that is indeed the only thing a coach needs.

You could be the Eagles who go to the Playoffs every year and lose with their brilliant coach.

We have what we have. Is he the best coach in the league? No way.

Herm is a good coach though and keeps this team competitive and in the hunt. He fits this team for now and with a few tweaks here and there I think this is a team that gets to the next level.

BZ

[SouthernJet]

I am not satisfied at all but I look around the league at all the brilliant game planning coaches who sit in January watching the Jets in the playoffs and it makes me wonder if that is indeed the only thing a coach needs.

You could be the Eagles who go to the Playoffs every year and lose with their brilliant coach.

We have what we have. Is he the best coach in the league? No way.

Herm is a good coach though and keeps this team competitive and in the hunt. He fits this team for now and with a few tweaks here and there I think this is a team that gets to the next level.

BZ

ok,, i just wish i saw some semblance of a football gameday brain,,i have seen NONE

[Jet Black]

This team has a lot of talent. It SHOULD have made be made the playoffs the last few years. I give Herm credit for doing that but I don't see him ever getting this team to the elite status with his "play not to lose" philosophy.

The question is this; do you believe you can win a SuperBowl with Herman Edwards? To me, that is the bottomline. I don't care if he teaches Sunday School or selected as the next Pope.

CAN WE WIN A BOWL WITH HIM AS COACH??

The jury is definitely out....

[Preston Howley III]

Only two teams have won the SB in the past 4 seasons, and one of them, the Jets more than any other team were in position to take them out, but never got it done. The last time the Jets beat the Pats, they also won the division, and that was the one year a team besides the Pats represented the AFC.

My point?

A better coaching staff could have positioned itself better for a playoff seed, and get to the big dance.

Getting to play NE twice a year, was actually an opportunity that this coaching staff failed to capitalize on.

You can't start 4 out of 5 seasons 1-3; 2-4 etc.

I'll give Herm credit-

His teams always rebound from adversity, but they usually get placed behind the 8 ball in the first place by his folly.

[SouthernJet]

His teams always rebound from adversity, but they usually get placed behind the 8 ball in the first place by his folly.

BINGO

[BwanaZulia]

This team has a lot of talent. It SHOULD have made be made the playoffs the last few years. I give Herm credit for doing that but I don't see him ever getting this team to the elite status with his "play not to lose" philosophy.

The question is this; do you believe you can win a SuperBowl with Herman Edwards? To me, that is the bottomline. I don't care if he teaches Sunday School or selected as the next Pope.

CAN WE WIN A BOWL WITH HIM AS COACH??

The jury is definitely out....

Yes. I do believe we can win a Super Bowl with Herm Edwards as the Coach of the New York Jets.

BZ

[TomShane]

First of all, I never said he could do no wrong. He is certainly human and a new HC in terms of how many years he has been doing it.

I will point out what I think are some of the obvious points.

Integrity: When I see him or hear him speak about an issues I know he has a moral fiber and the ability to stick by it. While the NY media and others (ahem) want to try to spin his words or make him out to be something else, Herm is a stand up guy and his players know that about him. Other players from other teams want to play for him (Ty Law) and that helps the team get talent.

Motivation: Certainly the most obvious of all of his positives. He has the ability to make his team believe in him, the plan, and themselves. He gets them to fight every minutes of every game with or without the starters. He has shown, again and again, that he can get his players back in the game after a big loss or a horrible first half. He makes those games competitive and worth watching. He will keep his team ready to win at any point and not that they always do, but they believe they can.

Likeability: His players like him. They WANT to play for him and they want to play hard. They trust him because he was a long time player and guy who wouldn't say no, and wouldn't quit.

Persistence: I know this is where most of the Herm Haters like to call him stubborn and that he has no ability to change, but I think it is a valuable trait. He does not just give up on the game plan or the game or the season. He sticks by players and gives them the chance to shine, to make that extra play. Most think he is padding the starters numbers, but I don't think he is. I think he knows these players are giving the team the best chance to win and just because you saw some guy make a good play in the pre-season doesn't mean he will come in and be better than a starter who is struggling.

Just to prove that I am not blind, I will also point out his weaknesses.

Time Management: Obvious. Clear and no longer an issues as the Dinger runs the clock.

Inexperience: It shows up in games now and again. He has only been a HC for 5 years and that is not a long time. He makes mistakes on plays, on calls and sometimes in personnel. All coaches make mistakes and bad calls, even the best, so to hang him out to dry because of them is short-sighted.

No Edge: I think Herm needs more of an edge. He needs to be able to tell reporters to go stuff. He needs to get on players now and again. Some players thrive on that, some do not, but he needs to get a bit more gritty with those players that need it. Herm, as most humans in our society, wants to be liked so he gets caught in those awkward moments of trying to be witty with the press that just don't work.

BZ

Integrity? Motivation? Likeability? Persistence? Guy these are all great qualities if you're running for the mayor of Podunk, New Mexico, but as far as running a football team they mean jack sh*t. Come on. Try again.

[BwanaZulia]

ok,, i just wish i saw some semblance of a football gameday brain,,i have seen NONE

It is a bit extreme to say he has NO gameday plan, he just might not have the best one. He has won too many games to just count it as "talent" or "luck".

Except for a few games, the Jets of the last 4 years have been very competitive. They stay in the fight till the very end and if they lose, they don't lose by much.

Is Herm conservative, sure, but so is Parcells and BB.

You want a gun slinger like Martz or Norv? That is just not his game.

Herm has made it clear that he leaves the detailed game planning down to his coaches. Hendu does a great job of game planning and Dinger... well... the jury is out on that one.

You don't have to do all the work yourself to be a great coach, you just have to know when you need help and surround yourself with people who are smarter than you are.

BZ

[BwanaZulia]

Integrity? Motivation? Likeability? Persistence? Guy these are all great qualities if you're running for the mayor of Podunk, New Mexico, but as far as running a football team they mean jack Sh#t. Come on. Try again.

You try again.

You haven't put together more than three witty sentances on this board in what seems like months.

BZ

[PETROCK]

serious question why do you ask a question when you don't want to hear the answer? You come around "what makes Herm a good coach" people write you responses and you go on thinking whatever you wanted to think in the first place?

I asked the question seriously because I wanted to hear serious answers. We both have our own opinions about Herm. I saw your responses and if you read what I wrote to your response, I agreed with you.

Yes Bollinger did make some incompleteions, but there were some dropped passes also. Yes if an entire team, including the coaches, don't have faith in a young QB, he's done unless he can throw up results right away.

You don't like it if someone questions your opinions or disagrees with you or if someone tries to show you the same situation in a diffrent light.

[Jetsfan80]

Those aren't his top four traits yet we end up with winning seasons and trips to the playoffs.

Funny how that happens.

BZ

Winning a maximum of 10 games with an easy schedule and a tremendous D isn't something to beat your chest about.

I'll take the 5th seed over no playoffs at all, but I refuse to believe that is an accomplishment or proves that Herm is a coach capable of winning a championship.

[PETROCK]

CAN WE WIN A BOWL WITH HIM AS COACH??

The jury is definitely out....

No way in hell we can win a SB with Herm as HC.

[Scott Dierking]

Winning a maximum of 10 games with an easy schedule and a tremendous D isn't something to beat your chest about.

I'll take the 5th seed over no playoffs at all, but I refuse to believe that is an accomplishment or proves that Herm is a coach capable of winning a championship.

Didn't the Jets have the 5th most difficult schedule last year, based on final opponents ws and ls?

[Bugg]

Likeabilty-Bellichick has the personality of a used urinal cake. Sports is replete with coaches and managers who were very successful who were utterly hated. In fact, it could be argued that a miserable workoholic bastid is preferable in this day of prima donnas and overgrown children pro athletes.

Integrity-Bellechick treated a handshake deal with Leon Hess as worthless. Parcells, Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Leo Durocher, Lou Piniella, Mike Keenan, Scotty Bowman, Casey Stengel-snakes and vermin all-and all winners.

Persistence-running the same handoff to Martin isn't anything to write home about. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different result sis a clinical defintion of insanity.

Motivation-the amorphous nothing of the Hermaphrodites. Just add he nice to children and kind to pets.

Simply, you list 3 things which either don't necessarily correspond to coaching success or are neutral or may be even negative, and one which you cannot even quantify. And when someone points out that his football acumen in game is pretty wanting you have nothing to say.

At this point, he should give a good chunk of his salary to Donnie Henderson, tell Dinger to do what ever he wants, and thank God he has a job at all.