What makes Herm a good coach?

[BwanaZulia]

It is clear that HermHaterNation has no room for discussion of a topic beyond just blind hate on this topic.

Next.

BZ

[Bugg]

It's not about hate. Objectively he is not a good coach.

Again-what does motivation really mean? You guys speak in generalities, nebulous office park/Anthony Robbins seminar stuff. And frankly if you've been out in the world in almost any business you know what utter bullsh*t that all is. It's worse that a selling point, it's to many of us a negative, that moron in th back of the office meeting babbling on in buzz words and catch phrases saying NOTHING, but in love with the sound of his own voice.

[Jetsfan80]

It is clear that HermHaterNation has no room for discussion of a topic beyond just blind hate on this topic.

Next.

BZ

It is clear you believe our dislike of Herm lies in blind hatred rather than results.

Herm will never lead this team to a Super Bowl. That is why I don't like Herm.

[Jet Black]

Yes. I do believe we can win a Super Bowl with Herm Edwards as the Coach of the New York Jets.

BZ

Well you are one of the few fans who do. I hope you are right.

[Scott Dierking]

It's not about hate. Objectively he is not a good coach.

Again-what does motivation really mean? You guys speak in generalities, nebulous office park/Anthony Robbins seminar stuff. And frankly if you've been out in the world in almost any business you know what utter bullsh*t that all is. It's worse that a selling point, it's to many of us a negative, that moron in th back of the office meeting babbling on in buzz words and catch phrases saying NOTHING, but in love with the sound of his own voice.

Actually, I don't know how it works in a lockerromm, but in teh business world, motivation means a lot.

Over 2 facilities, I manage and in charge of over 70 employees. If you don't think that motivational mind games, and encouraging speech is a part of managing, well, then we do it differently.

Employees need to be coddled at times, taken on the carpet at times, and torn down and built up. It is A LOT of motivbation.

Heck, look what Max has to work with TS, here. Thank God for faba

[Jetsfan80]

Actually, I don't know how it works in a lockerromm, but in teh business world, motivation means a lot.

Over 2 facilities, I manage and in charge of over 70 employees. If you don't think that motivational mind games, and encouraging speech is a part of managing, well, then we do it differently.

Employees need to be coddled at times, taken on the carpet at times, and torn down and built up. It is A LOT of motivbation.

Heck, look what Max has to work with TS, here. Thank God for faba

And can you honestly say that Herm does that with a straight face? How can anyone say he is a "master motivator" when we have no clue what goes on behind the scenes? Did Abe feel the need to run through walls for Herm when he sat out in the playoffs with an "injury"? Did Santana Moss leave it all on the field when he was darting for the sidelines on punt returns?

[Scott Dierking]

And can you honestly say that Herm does that with a straight face? How can anyone say he is a "master motivator" when we have no clue what goes on behind the scenes? Did Abe feel the need to run through walls for Herm when he sat out in the playoffs with an "injury"? Did Santana Moss leave it all on the field when he was darting for the sidelines on punt returns?

Where have I said I know how Herm does it?

It is everyone else that seems to know how gameplans are written, who is writing them, what is said behind wall, not me.

I am glad that you are able to admit that we DON"T KNOW what goes on behind the scenes. That is exactly what makes me laugh at some of these posts

[TomShane]

It is clear that HermHaterNation has no room for discussion of a topic beyond just blind hate on this topic.

Next.

BZ

Is it because we lack likeability? Or integrity?

[BwanaZulia]

Is it because we lack likeability? Or integrity?

Motivation.

(and facts)

BZ

[TomShane]

Motivation.

(and facts)

BZ

Fact: We are farther away from the Super Bowl in his fifth year than we were in Herm's first year.

No coach gets a sixth year to try and improve on that. How many second chances is Herm currently on anyway?

[BwanaZulia]

Fact: We are farther away from the Super Bowl in his fifth year than we were in Herm's first year.

No coach gets a sixth year to try and improve on that. How many second chances is Herm currently on anyway?

You don't want to play in Facts:

Fact: Herm Edwards is 37-32 in regular season 2-3 in playoffs

Fact: Herm Edwards has been in the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. It was also done in the hardest division, in the hardest conference with a Super Bowl championship team in the 3 out of 4 years.

Fact: Herm Edwards is the ONLY coach to take the Jets to the playoffs three times.

Those are the only facts I need. Beyond all your hype, complaining, belly aching and other doomsday sh*t, we get to and can win in the the playoffs.

That is it.

Those are the facts.

BZ

[SouthernJet]

It is a bit extreme to say he has NO gameday plan, he just might not have the best one. He has won too many games to just count it as "talent" or "luck".

Except for a few games, the Jets of the last 4 years have been very competitive. They stay in the fight till the very end and if they lose, they don't lose by much.

Is Herm conservative, sure, but so is Parcells and BB.

You want a gun slinger like Martz or Norv? That is just not his game.

Herm has made it clear that he leaves the detailed game planning down to his coaches. Hendu does a great job of game planning and Dinger... well... the jury is out on that one.

You don't have to do all the work yourself to be a great coach, you just have to know when you need help and surround yourself with people who are smarter than you are.

BZ

lord, u just keep guzzlin kool aid,,how about a coach who knows simple things like when to take timeouts, when to take a FREAKIN knee to run clock out and not risk fumble etc etc etc etc etc

[BwanaZulia]

lord, u just keep guzzlin kool aid,,how about a coach who knows simple things like when to take timeouts, when to take a FREAKIN knee to run clock out and not risk fumble etc etc etc etc etc

Your hindsight is an amazing 20/20.

Next week you can tell me which stocks I should have purchesed this week?

BZ

[SouthernJet]

It's not about hate. Objectively he is not a good coach.

Again-what does motivation really mean? You guys speak in generalities, nebulous office park/Anthony Robbins seminar stuff. And frankly if you've been out in the world in almost any business you know what utter bullsh*t that all is. It's worse that a selling point, it's to many of us a negative, that moron in th back of the office meeting babbling on in buzz words and catch phrases saying NOTHING, but in love with the sound of his own voice.

hahahaha, u hit it man,,i wasa with the VP of our division the other day and she listed her qualities she likes,,she said #1 was a killer attack instinct,,she said she has no need for play it fair nice guys,,

[SouthernJet]

Actually, I don't know how it works in a lockerromm, but in teh business world, motivation means a lot.

Over 2 facilities, I manage and in charge of over 70 employees. If you don't think that motivational mind games, and encouraging speech is a part of managing, well, then we do it differently.

Employees need to be coddled at times, taken on the carpet at times, and torn down and built up. It is A LOT of motivbation.

Heck, look what Max has to work with TS, here. Thank God for faba

thats all true, BUT, when the big bell rings and a nuclear meltdown will occur in 10 seconds if you cant decide which widget gets put where when then that kinda makes motivation look like warmed over everyone has been there cootch

[SouthernJet]

You don't want to play in Facts:

Fact: Herm Edwards is 37-32 in regular season 2-3 in playoffs

Fact: Herm Edwards has been in the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. It was also done in the hardest division, in the hardest conference with a Super Bowl championship team in the 3 out of 4 years.

Fact: Herm Edwards is the ONLY coach to take the Jets to the playoffs three times.

Those are the only facts I need. Beyond all your hype, complaining, belly aching and other doomsday Sh#t, we get to and can win in the the playoffs.

That is it.

Those are the facts.

BZ

tomaso shane actually makes a great point an du didnt answer it....We are farther away from the Super Bowl in his fifth year than we were in Herm's first year.

[BwanaZulia]

tomaso shane actually makes a great point an du didnt answer it....We are farther away from the Super Bowl in his fifth year than we were in Herm's first year.

Sorry, he didn't make a great point. It isn't even a fact.

We are further away in the 5th week of the season after losing our 1st and 2nd QBs?

We are 2-3, this season isn't over till it is over and just because Tom Shane always thinks the sky is falling (it is called "rain" Tom) doesn't make it so.

BZ

[Savage69]

You don't want to play in Facts:

Fact: Herm Edwards is 37-32 in regular season 2-3 in playoffs

Fact: Herm Edwards has been in the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. It was also done in the hardest division, in the hardest conference with a Super Bowl championship team in the 3 out of 4 years.

Fact: Herm Edwards is the ONLY coach to take the Jets to the playoffs three times.

Those are the only facts I need. Beyond all your hype, complaining, belly aching and other doomsday Sh#t, we get to and can win in the the playoffs.

That is it.

Those are the facts.

BZ

Here's some more Facts for you..There used to be 12 and 14 season years..Also there weren't always wild cards..9-7 would equal 7-5 in a 12 game season and 8-6 in a 14 game season..I don't recall that ever being a great feat back then! Yet Hermie is praised for winning the East at 9-7! And along with his 3 out of 4 playoffs lets keep in mind Hackett was a important part of that as was Fat Teddy being part of 2 out of 3 playoffs! So if they sucked which they did..Is it possible that the Guy the just BBQ's,Talks to the Press and claps hands and pats fannies could suck as well??

[Bugg]

Also-about likeability. 2 historic coaches people now praise are Weeb and Lombardi. But both treated players like absolute sheet, and yet they won championships. In fact, both in their roles as GM were notoriously cheap. And to some degree it hurt the Jets toward the end. Still, players liking you isn't the same as respecting you.

[Scott Dierking]

Also-about likeability. 2 historic coaches people now praise are Weeb and Lombardi. But both treated players like absolute sheet, and yet they won championships. In fact, both in their roles as GM were notoriously cheap. And to some degree it hurt the Jets toward the end. Still, players liking you isn't the same as respecting you.

Players were a LOT different during that era. That type of coach would not succeed today in a long term plan.

They were great coaches, but times, and mostly players are different.

Bygone era where you could treat them bad and pay 'em nothing. Before the unions

[Matt39]

I dislike Herm because he is overly conservative, won't adjust to fit his players and lacks the basic intelligence to properly manage a football game.

[TomShane]

Players were a LOT different during that era. That type of coach would not succeed today in a long term plan.

They were great coaches, but times, and mostly players are different.

Bygone era where you could treat them bad and pay 'em nothing. Before the unions

Belichick, Parcells, Chuck Noll, and Bill Walsh all treat or treated players like cattle. Herm treats them like prize ponies. Who would you rather have coaching your team?

[Scott Dierking]

Belichick, Parcells, Chuck Noll, and Bill Walsh all treat or treated players like cattle. Herm treats them like prize ponies. Who would you rather have coaching your team?

Disagree on Walsh

Noll was from a bygone era, as well.

Honestly, who knows what Bellichick is liek behind closed doors. Who can understand him.

His players hated him in Cleveland, from reports. Reportedly, he is much more open with them now.

Parcells, great coach that he is, is a coddler many times too. He has the gruff exterior, but he treats star players differently. Look how he coddled LT. He creates whipping boys that are a eslect few, but most others he assuages.

I do not buy what you are peddling.

[TomShane]

Disagree on Walsh

Noll was from a bygone era, as well.

Honestly, who knows what Bellichick is liek behind closed doors. Who can understand him.

His players hated him in Cleveland, from reports. Reportedly, he is much more open with them now.

Parcells, great coach that he is, is a coddler many times too. He has the gruff exterior, but he treats star players differently. Look how he coddled LT. He creates whipping boys that are a eslect few, but most others he assuages.

I do not buy what you are peddling.

1) Walsh almost never knew his player's first names. That is true. Read Roger Craig's and Joe Montana's biographies. Both mostly fluff, but both describe Walsh as being "detached" and "unapproachable."

2) Noll was brutally efficient and cutthroat in Pittsburgh as far as players and player development go. I don't think that late 70's, early 80's is a "bygone era" necessarily.

3) Belichick would cut his baby brother from a team if he thought he could get a better guy off the street to help him. Countless examples: Brown, Law, Milloy, Antoine Smith, etc....

4) Parcells applied tough love to his players, but note how said players almost never embrace him post-retirement. Simms never talks about him. LT onlt provides guarded, almost back-handed praise for Parcells. Carl Banks got a cushy job with the Jets during the Parcells regime, and Banks doesn't even have love for Parcells. How about Mo Carthon, whom Parcells slapped in the face as a coordinator?

4)

[Scott Dierking]

1) Walsh almost never knew his player's first names. That is true. Read Roger Craig's and Joe Montana's biographies. Both mostly fluff, but both describe Walsh as being "detached" and "unapproachable."

2) Noll was brutally efficient and cutthroat in Pittsburgh as far as players and player development go. I don't think that late 70's, early 80's is a "bygone era" necessarily.

3) Belichick would cut his baby brother from a team if he thought he could get a better guy off the street to help him. Countless examples: Brown, Law, Milloy, Antoine Smith, etc....

4) Parcells applied tough love to his players, but note how said players almost never embrace him post-retirement. Simms never talks about him. LT onlt provides guarded, almost back-handed praise for Parcells. Carl Banks got a cushy job with the Jets during the Parcells regime, and Banks doesn't even have love for Parcells. How about Mo Carthon, whom Parcells slapped in the face as a coordinator?

4)

TS-Any coach before the Free Agency era, is a bygone era. That changed everything.

As far as LT, he wanted Parcells to induct him, originally. Tuna let him sleep through meetings, let him sleepwalk through practices, and even looked the other way when he came to a meeting in handcuffs. Think he didn't know about substance abusee. wink, wink.

It is all about respect, I agree, There is more than one way you can earn respect, and one is not necessarily better than the other.

One thing you NEVER see with the Jets right now, is leaks out of the clubhouse about management. Players that leave the Jets, they most often don't leave disgruntled.

Think Vinny had a bone to pick with Herm? Think he may have been a player that would have had a gripe? He comes right back to him.

TS-Neither you nor I know exactly what goes on behind closed doors. All we have is speculation and innuendo.

But, If you are to say that players disrespect Herm, or snicker behind his back-There is not credible evidence oif that.

Say what you will about game planning, X's and O's, game decisions, those are all debateable subjects and you would most likely win those arguments.

But I can not sit here and say that the"inmates run the asylum" or there is rampant disrespect of teh hierarchy.

You can't point anything credible in that direction. Pick fights ypou can win. i don't think this is one you can hang your hat on. Evidence points otherwise.

[TomShane]

TS-Any coach before the Free Agency era, is a bygone era. That changed everything.

As far as LT, he wanted Parcells to induct him, originally. Tuna let him sleep through meetings, let him sleepwalk through practices, and even looked the other way when he came to a meeting in handcuffs. Think he didn't know about substance abusee. wink, wink.

It is all about respect, I agree, There is more than one way you can earn respect, and one is not necessarily better than the other.

One thing you NEVER see with the Jets right now, is leaks out of the clubhouse about management. Players that leave the Jets, they most often don't leave disgruntled.

Think Vinny had a bone to pick with Herm? Think he may have been a player that would have had a gripe? He comes right back to him.

TS-Neither you nor I know exactly what goes on behind closed doors. All we have is speculation and innuendo.

But, If you are to say that players disrespect Herm, or snicker behind his back-There is not credible evidence oif that.

Say what you will about game planning, X's and O's, game decisions, those are all debateable subjects and you would most likely win those arguments.

But I can not sit here and say that the"inmates run the asylum" or there is rampant disrespect of teh hierarchy.

You can't point anything credible in that direction. Pick fights ypou can win. i don't think this is one you can hang your hat on. Evidence points otherwise.

Scotty, I never said that the Jets were running the asylum or whatnot. All I was saying was that "likeability" and "integrity" are over-rated, if not completely worthless qualities in a HC. As I've said, I commend Herm all the way for keeping the team together in what looks to be a lost season, and getting them up to play the Ravens and Tampa. They won't quit under Herm. However, as you acknowledge and as I've said countless times, it's just about everything else that Herm is completely lacking. I know his m.o. is to delegate, but tell me another HC in the league that is as lost as Herm is when it comes to the game day mechanics of running a ballgame. Dealing with officials, calling plays, making adjustments, time management, etc. At some point the HC has to step up and be accountable for everything, and Herm, in Year Five, has to take the hit for absolutely every failing of his ballclub. Is it his fault that Chad went down? Yes. Is it entirely fair to blame Herm for Chad going down? Probably not. Is it Herm's fault that Curtis Martin has apparently broken down? Yes. That the line isn't blocking? Yes. Catch my drift? This isn't the Mountain West Conference. You don't get a decade to figure it out. Herm has gotten his five years. Tony Dungy got five years in Tampa, Marty Schottenheimer got five years in Cleveland and KC, Jim Fassel got five years with the Giants and all were more successful in building toward a championship than Herm has been. IMO, it's time to move on.

[Matt39]

[PETROCK]

I never said that the Jets were running the asylum or whatnot. All I was saying was that "likeability" and "integrity" are over-rated, if not completely worthless qualities in a HC. As I've said, I commend Herm all the way for keeping the team together in what looks to be a lost season, and getting them up to play the Ravens and Tampa. They won't quit under Herm. However, as you acknowledge and as I've said countless times, it's just about everything else that Herm is completely lacking. I know his m.o. is to delegate, but tell me another HC in the league that is as lost as Herm is when it comes to the game day mechanics of running a ballgame. Dealing with officials, calling plays, making adjustments, time management, etc. At some point the HC has to step up and be accountable for everything, and Herm, in Year Five, has to take the hit for absolutely every failing of his ballclub. Is it his fault that Chad went down? Yes. Is it entirely fair to blame Herm for Chad going down? Probably not. Is it Herm's fault that Curtis Martin has apparently broken down? Yes. That the line isn't blocking? Yes. Catch my drift? This isn't the Mountain West Conference. You don't get a decade to figure it out. Herm has gotten his five years. Tony Dungy got five years in Tampa, Marty Schottenheimer got five years in Cleveland and KC, Jim Fassel got five years with the Giants and all were more successful in building toward a championship than Herm has been. IMO, it's time to move on.

Post of the day Max??

[PatsFanTX]

All I was saying was that "likeability" and "integrity" are over-rated, if not completely worthless qualities in a HC.

Hermy needs to go out and steal a cool mil from some dying dead guy.

That will take care of everything. :wink:

[TomShane]

Hermy needs to go out and steal a cool mil from some dying dead guy.

That will take care of everything. :wink:

He'd do it and then blame it on Hackett.

[Preston Howley III]

bump

[Jetsfan80]

Brilliant.