**Official Ladainian Tomlinson Thread** [Merged]

[Sperm Edwards]

He did not get all his money up front. He got ****ed out of the $6M they owed him this year. The fact that they cut him and we all knew they would meant that he was 100% right to bitch about his contract during the down year. The Jets wanted him back and cut him rather than honor his contract in an uncapped year.

I didn't notice him bitching much when he got $9M in 2007. Odd.

[#27TheDominator]

I didn't notice him bitching much when he got $9M in 2007. Odd.

WHy should he?

He was owed almost $7M over two. IF that's your contract, would you be pissed that you were going to do half the work and get paid 1/7 of the money? I would. Sciopero! Sciopero!

[Klecko73isGod]

He did not get all his money up front. He got ****ed out of the $6M they owed him this year. The fact that they cut him and we all knew they would meant that he was 100% right to bitch about his contract during the down year. The Jets wanted him back and cut him rather than honor his contract in an uncapped year.

Time out. They didn't owe him anything.

NFL players have unguaranteed contracts for a reason - so when their performance falls off a cliff at the end of the year and in the postseason (2.7 YPC over the last four games,) you can cut them loose without having to pay them to continue to underachieve.

[Sperm Edwards]

WHy should he?

He was owed almost $7M over two. IF that's your contract, would you be pissed that you were going to do half the work and get paid 1/7 of the money? I would. Sciopero! Sciopero!

He wasn't owed. He was due $6M this year if he wasn't cut. Football contracts are not guaranteed and both parties are aware of this at the time of signing. If football contracts were guaranteed, he wouldn't have had a 4th year at $6M. The day it was signed everyone knew it was a 3 year $14M contract unless the Jets would otherwise have a worse RB situation than they had in 2006. This is not the case, so the Jets cut him, as they planned 3 years ago.

He was not "owed" $6M in 2010 unless he played for the Jets in 2010. The Jets cut him so therefore he was owed zero.

[SouthernJet]

He wasn't owed. He was due $6M this year if he wasn't cut. Football contracts are not guaranteed and both parties are aware of this at the time of signing. If football contracts were guaranteed, he wouldn't have had a 4th year at $6M. The day it was signed everyone knew it was a 3 year $14M contract unless the Jets would otherwise have a worse RB situation than they had in 2006. This is not the case, so the Jets cut him, as they planned 3 years ago.

He was not "owed" $6M in 2010 unless he played for the Jets in 2010. The Jets cut him so therefore he was owed zero.

exactly..the beauty of NFL, as opposed to other sports, is the lack of 'guaranteed' contracts. Only guaranteed cash is Bonuses and money from salary from year you are playing. Once cut, salary portion voided. Players all know and accept this, which is why NFL contracts are about the bonus, not the salary.

It also allows NFL teams to not be saddled with a long contract for a guy who ends up a turd or loses skills or doesnt fit into organizations goals. In MLB/NBA, you are stuck with some of these horrid 5/10 year contracts.

[Sperm Edwards]

Jones was "owed" $6M for the 2010 season just like Steve McNair was "owed" $50M for the 2006 season.

[Biggs]

He did not get all his money up front. He got ****ed out of the $6M they owed him this year. The fact that they cut him and we all knew they would meant that he was 100% right to bitch about his contract during the down year. The Jets wanted him back and cut him rather than honor his contract in an uncapped year.

This is just so wrong on so many levels. He got paid up front. The contract was structured for Jones to be an unrestricted FA this year. What that means is he is free to sign for his highest percieved value with any NFL team. If his value was more than what the Jets option to pick him up Jones would have loved for the Jets to cut him.

A person who is free to get his full value in the marketplace by having the right to negiotate with every NFL team for that value is not getting f**ked. They are only getting f**ked if you believe players should be paid more than they are worth.

You also fail to recognize that time and opportunity are worth money. Jones was essentially paid up front which is a bird in the hand so to speak while the Jets had no production for those payments.

[#27TheDominator]

The beauty of the NFL is that it gets to **** the players. The only reason that players have unguaranteed contracts is because they have such short careers that they can't afford to strike and hold out. The Jets owed Jones $6M for the upcoming season as much as he owed them playing for 2009 at $900K or whatever his deal was.

You guys like it because you can cut a guy loose that "falls off a cliff"? Nice. What about these poor bastards like Brandon Marshall and Leon? They are forced by the draft and these bull**** RFA rules to stick with the team that drafted them. The value of any contract they sign must be devalued by the value of the draft pick needed to trade for them. How much would Brandon Marshall have been worth on the free market if he were allowed to simply terminate his contract and start over in a free market, rather than be labeled a head case for trying to get out of it?

The NFL is a good old boys network that has been ****ing these guys for decades and I'm not going to say a guy is whining because he doesn't like his deal when the team whines about how much they have to pay him this year and just terminates the contract.

FIGHT THE POWER!

[SouthernJet]

The beauty of the NFL is that it gets to **** the players. The only reason that players have unguaranteed contracts is because they have such short careers that they can't afford to strike and hold out. The Jets owed Jones $6M for the upcoming season as much as he owed them playing for 2009 at $900K or whatever his deal was.

You guys like it because you can cut a guy loose that "falls off a cliff"? Nice. What about these poor bastards like Brandon Marshall and Leon? They are forced by the draft and these bull**** RFA rules to stick with the team that drafted them. The value of any contract they sign must be devalued by the value of the draft pick needed to trade for them. How much would Brandon Marshall have been worth on the free market if he were allowed to simply terminate his contract and start over in a free market, rather than be labeled a head case for trying to get out of it?

The NFL is a good old boys network that has been ****ing these guys for decades and I'm not going to say a guy is whining because he doesn't like his deal when the team whines about how much they have to pay him this year and just terminates the contract.

FIGHT THE POWER!

[#27TheDominator]

This is just so wrong on so many levels. He got paid up front. The contract was structured for Jones to be an unrestricted FA this year. What that means is he is free to sign for his highest percieved value with any NFL team. If his value was more than what the Jets option to pick him up Jones would have loved for the Jets to cut him.

A person who is free to get his full value in the marketplace by having the right to negiotate with every NFL team for that value is not getting f**ked. They are only getting f**ked if you believe players should be paid more than they are worth.

You also fail to recognize that time and opportunity are worth money. Jones was essentially paid up front which is a bird in the hand so to speak while the Jets had no production for those payments.

If this bull**** is true, why didn't the contract actually make him a free agent this year? Oh, that's right, they wanted to lock him up. Or maybe he had to do them a favor and they needed to extend the contract to pro rate his bonus to fit the salary cap rules. The rules that are in place because the owners are too stupid, competitive and irresponsible to handle their own business. ****ing anti-free market bull****.

[Biggs]

If this bull**** is true, why didn't the contract actually make him a free agent this year?

Because Jones agent was happy to give the Jets an option to keep him for 6 Million dollars. Everyone knew he wasn't getting that bonus. You act as if he wasn't represented in his own contract.

[Scott Dierking]

If this bull**** is true, why didn't the contract actually make him a free agent this year? Oh, that's right, they wanted to lock him up. Or maybe he had to do them a favor and they needed to extend the contract to pro rate his bonus to fit the salary cap rules. The rules that are in place because the owners are too stupid, competitive and irresponsible to handle their own business. ****ing anti-free market bull****.

From Thomas Jones perspective, he gets to drink from the well again, with another dip of guaranteed bonus money.

[slats]

The beauty of the NFL is that it gets to **** the players. The only reason that players have unguaranteed contracts is because they have such short careers that they can't afford to strike and hold out. The Jets owed Jones $6M for the upcoming season as much as he owed them playing for 2009 at $900K or whatever his deal was.

You guys like it because you can cut a guy loose that "falls off a cliff"? Nice. What about these poor bastards like Brandon Marshall and Leon? They are forced by the draft and these bull**** RFA rules to stick with the team that drafted them. The value of any contract they sign must be devalued by the value of the draft pick needed to trade for them. How much would Brandon Marshall have been worth on the free market if he were allowed to simply terminate his contract and start over in a free market, rather than be labeled a head case for trying to get out of it?

The NFL is a good old boys network that has been ****ing these guys for decades and I'm not going to say a guy is whining because he doesn't like his deal when the team whines about how much they have to pay him this year and just terminates the contract.

FIGHT THE POWER!

Absolutely!

This is why I never begrudge a player who holds out or fights in any other way possible for more money. Never had anything against a guy like Laveranues Coles. The players are expected to honor their contracts, but the owners aren't obligated to do the same.

That said, Jones knew he was unlikely to get the money at the end of that deal. If contracts were guaranteed, his would've been structured much differently.

[#27TheDominator]

Because Jones agent was happy to give the Jets an option to keep him for 6 Million dollars. Everyone knew he wasn't getting that bonus. You act as if he wasn't represented in his own contract.

I said this about 5,000 times pre 2009 season, during the time he complained about his contract: Just like everybody knew the Jets would cut him after 2009, everybody knew that if he had decent seasons he would expect to hold-out/renegotiate/bitch about his contract. I'm not some naive rube that doesn't know how things work. I think some of you are. Too many people think that players bitching about their contract terms is some kind of personal affront on the fanbase.

[Aten]

****ing anti-free market bull****.

Actually, I can't think of anything more anti-free market than insisting that a profit-seeking entity perform under a contract it would rather breach. You're also ignoring the fact that there's an exclusive rights component to this in addition to payment for services.

[#27TheDominator]

Actually, I can't think of anything more anti-free market than insisting that a profit-seeking entity perform under a contract it would rather breach. You're also ignoring the fact that there's an exclusive rights component to this in addition to payment for services.

I don't insist they perform, but they insist he perform. If it were a free market, with competition, he would be able to breach the contract and sign elsewhere for more money. They can seek to maximize profit (2010), but he can't(2009)?

Not sure what you mean by exclusive rights component because I'm not sure how that benefits the player.

[Biggs]

The beauty of the NFL is that it gets to **** the players. The only reason that players have unguaranteed contracts is because they have such short careers that they can't afford to strike and hold out. The Jets owed Jones $6M for the upcoming season as much as he owed them playing for 2009 at $900K or whatever his deal was.

Jones owed the Jets the 2009 season at 900K because he got a huge pile of guaranteed money UP FRONT and made 14 million for his 3 years.

of service. If he had actually sucked and not performed he would have been cut and gotten 13 million for 2 years of service.

You guys like it because you can cut a guy loose that "falls off a cliff"? Nice. What about these poor bastards like Brandon Marshall and Leon? They are forced by the draft and these bull**** RFA rules to stick with the team that drafted them. The value of any contract they sign must be devalued by the value of the draft pick needed to trade for them. How much would Brandon Marshall have been worth on the free market if he were allowed to simply terminate his contract and start over in a free market, rather than be labeled a head case for trying to get out of it?

Different issue. The reality is drafted players who haven't played one minute of NFL football have a value. Some of them are highly over paid and over valued, others are a an outright steal. Is Gholston worth more than Leon?

The only way for players to get their real value is to get rid of the draft entirely and still some players would sign bad contracts.

The NFL is a good old boys network that has been ****ing these guys for decades and I'm not going to say a guy is whining because he doesn't like his deal when the team whines about how much they have to pay him this year and just terminates the contract.

I'm not sure how Thomas Jones has been f**ked? The guy was a top draft choice who underperformed his first couple of contracts. Got traded for a song and got a huge pile of cash in the deal. Got his full release and negiotated another big pay day when the likely hood is he's toast. It seems to me your example doesn't fly.

At the end of the day most NFL players have gotten a top flight education for free, have made millions by the time they hit thirty. Have fame and business opportunities in the city they played for that most people would die for. Granted many of them pissed away their education, health and money. That's not the fault of management.

I'm surprised people in this economy are crying for the Pro athlete in the US. Most of them with any head on their shoulders have the world by the balls.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not sure how Thomas Jones has been f**ked? .

I'm going to ignore the rest (on an agree to disagree basis, not saying you don't have points) and stick with this. I'm not saying Jones got ****ed financially. I'm saying Jones is getting ****ed because people are claiming that he was "whining" or "owed the Jets" something. He performed as agreed.

As I said before, EVERYBODY knows that a player who is underpaid for a season will gripe, just as they know that those balloon years and huge roster bonuses mean renegotiate or get cut. Why did the Jets have such a down year in Jones contract? They thought he would be shot and that would be all he was worth. He was worth considerably more than his contract and in time honored tradition, he griped, just as they would have cut him if his deal was for $9M.

[Biggs]

I'm going to ignore the rest (on an agree to disagree basis, not saying you don't have points) and stick with this. I'm not saying Jones got ****ed financially. I'm saying Jones is getting ****ed because people are claiming that he was "whining" or "owed the Jets" something. He performed as agreed.

As I said before, EVERYBODY knows that a player who is underpaid for a season will gripe, just as they know that those balloon years and huge roster bonuses mean renegotiate or get cut. Why did the Jets have such a down year in Jones contract? They thought he would be shot and that would be all he was worth. He was worth considerably more than his contract and in time honored tradition, he griped, just as they would have cut him if his deal was for $9M.

He was whining but he did perform as agreed and it paid off for him. The Jets may have had a down year in Jones contract for a many reasons. They may have wanted to over pay him in the first two years spread his bonus over 3 years and reduce his cap hit for 2009 to take care of other players.

The reality is Jones "Great seasons" were a direct result of the Jets great OL. The players get a % of the revenue and in the Jets case they are paying the max in player salaries. The Jets paid D'Brick and Mangold huge rookie contracts, over paid substantially for Faneca and have created an environment where Jones at 32 was able to get a two year deal worth 5 million.

If the Jets hadn't invested in the OL and Jones was running behind the line he signed up to run behind in 07 for the 08 and 09 seasons, Thomas Jones would likely be out of football.

Players performance is often the direct result of the players and coaches an organization puts around them. The Jets under Tannenbaum have made an effort to upgrade the coaches and the players and put marginally decent players in position to excel and increase their over all percieved value.

I've been a Jets fan for well over 40 years. The current players have the best facility, and the most aggresive management in creating an environment of success for the players. This translates into higher salaries for the players and makes the NY Jets a place good players are going to want to come to.

The crying over Thomas Jones ill treatment by this organization is over the top. Thomas Jones never had it so good and that's the case for most of the players on the NY Jets.

[Aten]

I don't insist they perform, but they insist he perform.

And he can refuse. It's called holding out.

If it were a free market, with competition, he would be able to breach the contract and sign elsewhere for more money.

He can breach the part of the contract in which he agreed to perform services in exchange for salary. Players can hold out, teams can cut players. What he can't do is breach the part in which the Jets hold his rights, because he sold those to us three years ago for money that we would not have been able to recover if, say, he played like complete crap in 2007 or something. This isn't real hard to grasp.

[#27TheDominator]

The crying over Thomas Jones ill treatment by this organization is over the top. Thomas Jones never had it so good and that's the case for most of the players on the NY Jets.

I'm not crying over his treatment. I'm saying you shouldn't complain about him doing what is expected - ask for more money. The Jets didn't do anything worse to Thomas Jones than the rest of the league has been doing to players since the dawn of football. I would have been pissed if they paid Jones because I don't like him as a back and would have preferred to spend the money elsewhere. The system collectively ****s them all and I call bull**** when somebody calls it whining when I guy asks for a bigger bite.

And he can refuse. It's called holding out.

He can breach the part of the contract in which he agreed to perform services in exchange for salary. Players can hold out, teams can cut players. What he can't do is breach the part in which the Jets hold his rights, because he sold those to us three years ago for money that we would not have been able to recover if, say, he played like complete crap in 2007 or something. This isn't real hard to grasp.

Ah, thank you almighty. That's what I'm talking about. That's the way it is, so don't bitch when the guy threatens to hold out. His contract was miniscule in 2009 and he tried to get more money. Let's not act like he was an irrational *****.

[dolphann4life]

Just gonna throw this out there, but since this thread has the most views and replies and was created by me, i should recieve some sort of recognition.

[SouthernJet]

Just gonna throw this out there, but since this thread has the most views and replies and was created by me, i should recieve some sort of recognition.

congrats ..most action for any thread in last week,,

go to bottom of page and in the 'From the' pull down, select 'beginning' to see the classics

do the same in the Lounge

[dolphann4life]

congrats ..most action for any thread in last week,,

go to bottom of page and in the 'From the' pull down, select 'beginning' to see the classics

do the same in the Lounge

Thank You for that info sir.

[jack48]

I didn't notice him bitching much when he got $9M in 2007. Odd.

Thank you. TJ at 12 carries a game is not much good at any price. KC will find that out.