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If Odrick is there he has to be the pick


RevisIsland24
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what this all keeps coming back to is the defense was #1 in the league last year... the passing offense was 31st.

It was 31st because the quarterback sucked. Want to draft a quarterback?

Rex has a long history of finding gems in the late rounds or after the draft, especially on defense. (Douglas, Scott, Leonard... Bannan, Gregg etc).

If by Rex you mean Ozzie Newsome.

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The d line is a very important and underrated position I must say. Lets look at the steelers last season for an example. You could say it was the absence of polumalu but I never heard one espn analyst mention the absence of aaron smith. He was the key to that line and when he went out, every other team had a happy day running all over the steelers d.

Aaron Smith was a fourth rounder and is regarded as a top 5 3-4 de's in the league. Brett Keisel is one of the better "serviceable" 3-4 de's in the league. He was a 7th rounder.

That being said, this draft is one of the better and deepest drafts we have seen in the past couple of years. People should not get fed up or angry if we do not address a certain position in the first round.

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Who sits back on their laurels with guys like Pouha, Pito, and Kroul just because of one season? That's just begging to be a mediocre team...

just to be clear

this is the same unit that was #1 in the league... minus Marques Douglas (and Howard Green)... plus Kris Jenkins.

They could re-sign Douglas and have essentially the same unit as last year... plus #77... and they played great last year.

DL - it's not a problem. at least not a first round problem. The passing offense was 31st that's a problem... and only partially to blame on the QB.

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My thoughts exactly, we ranked 8th in run defense. we ranked DEAD LAST in the passing game. An upgrade to the receiving core would be nice.

The rookie QB might have had more to do with that, don't you think? Draft defense first.

besides sanchez will have a lot of good weapons already in edwards, cotchery, keller, tomlinson, and washington.

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just to be clear

this is the same unit that was #1 in the league... minus Marques Douglas (and Howard Green)... plus Kris Jenkins.

They could re-sign Douglas and have essentially the same unit as last year... plus #77... and they played great last year.

DL - it's not a problem. at least not a first round problem. The passing offense was 31st that's a problem... and only partially to blame on the QB.

I don't know if saying that the passing offense is #31 so therefore needs some more tallent really says it all here when coming in Rex wanted a ground and pound offense so in general we just called fewer passing plays then most teams.

If you looks at Yards per attempt for QBs last year Sanchez comes in 18th which would at least indicate that if we had a balanced Offense then we would of been closer to the middle of the pack for passing O.

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The rookie QB might have had more to do with that, don't you think? Draft defense first.

besides sanchez will have a lot of good weapons already in edwards, cotchery, keller, tomlinson, and washington.

#1 in defense, passing defense. #31 in passing offense. Jets were the only team in the entire NFL last year to rush for more yards than they threw for. The passing offense needs more help than just Sanchez improving.

As for his weapons... Edwards is on a one year tender, and is no lock to be here beyond 2010. Leon is also on a tender that he hasn't signed yet, coming off a nasty injury. I'm not believing that he's going to be with the team this year until after the draft, and even then that's no lock. Tomlinson has had a couple down years in a row. I hope his excuses are real, but he's also no lock to be here beyond 2010 whether they are or not.

Jets have absolute zero for depth at the WR position, and may be looking to find a replacement for Braylon next year. They need a 3rd WR for the slot, and to be a reliable backup. It would also be nice to have a guy in place should we need a starter next year so the team can continue its BAP ways.

If they love a "planet guy" in round one at DE, I'd be all for it. But I'll be very disappointed if they don't land a WR in the first two rounds. It's a legit need.

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The thing about the passing offense is that it should improve without drafting somebody. Keller as a pass catcher seemed like he was really in sync with Sanchez towards the end of the year, he's a hard worker and appears to be poised for a breakout year in his 3rd season as most "receivers" (which he really is) do. Braylon may or may not improve but they already invested 2 picks this draft in him and as he gets more reps with the team he'll get more comfortable. Who knows what happens with his hands issues but he should end up better than he was last year, at least by a little. And then you have Sanchez who looked much more comfortable in the playoffs last year coming into his second season. He's had plenty of time to look at tape and hang around the facility with rehabbing his knee and should be in better shape mentally going into next season which is really what it's all about at the position for him right now, he's got the physical tools. He'll get reps with guys and improve. Yeah a slot guy would be nice, but with Keller as a third option a slot WR is going to be what, option #4 in a run-first offense? I just don't see why it's so critical. Insurance for Edwards would be nice, but there are going to be oodles of WR's next year too and it's really better to go after a proven guy at the position anyway since they take time to develop. I'm not at all against drafting a WR and think it makes some sense certainly, but it's not the kind of need you reach for because you NEED one. Corner was that kind of need before the Cromartie deal. At this point if the value is there go for it, but if it's not then you can always wait till the value is there or make a trade or something.

Defensive line right now is on the decline, and was kind of thin to begin with. It's something that you could look at in a bunch of different rounds and there's pretty good depth this year, but adding some youth and talent could stop the bleeding so to speak. I also still really hope Douglas is brought back.

As for defensive ends, apparently Linval Joseph out of ECU is a late riser. Seems to fit a profile as a type of guy that Ryan might like, just a name to remember and somebody to keep an eye on.

Edited by derp
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But we still have yet to have a big time playmaker on our team....golden tate can also fill big needs on kr/pr, not only slot receiver. I think in this league you need to be a good passing teaeam. Having tate on the field will also stop opposing defenses from crowing closer to the line of scrimmage. We need a desean jackson. We need him.

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The thing about the passing offense is that it should improve without drafting somebody. Keller as a pass catcher seemed like he was really in sync with Sanchez towards the end of the year, he's a hard worker and appears to be poised for a breakout year in his 3rd season as most "receivers" (which he really is) do. Braylon may or may not improve but they already invested 2 picks this draft in him and as he gets more reps with the team he'll get more comfortable. Who knows what happens with his hands issues but he should end up better than he was last year, at least by a little. And then you have Sanchez who looked much more comfortable in the playoffs last year coming into his second season. He's had plenty of time to look at tape and hang around the facility with rehabbing his knee and should be in better shape mentally going into next season which is really what it's all about at the position for him right now, he's got the physical tools. He'll get reps with guys and improve. Yeah a slot guy would be nice, but with Keller as a third option a slot WR is going to be what, option #4 in a run-first offense? I just don't see why it's so critical. Insurance for Edwards would be nice, but there are going to be oodles of WR's next year too and it's really better to go after a proven guy at the position anyway since they take time to develop. I'm not at all against drafting a WR and think it makes some sense certainly, but it's not the kind of need you reach for because you NEED one. Corner was that kind of need before the Cromartie deal. At this point if the value is there go for it, but if it's not then you can always wait till the value is there or make a trade or something.

Defensive line right now is on the decline, and was kind of thin to begin with. It's something that you could look at in a bunch of different rounds and there's pretty good depth this year, but adding some youth and talent could stop the bleeding so to speak. I also still really hope Douglas is brought back.

As for defensive ends, apparently Linval Joseph out of ECU is a late riser. Seems to fit a profile as a type of guy that Ryan might like, just a name to remember and somebody to keep an eye on.

I swear I really thougtht his would be common sense. Edwards in his first full season, Keller in that big3rd year after showing some big time ability his first two years, Cotchery being Cotchery, and Sanchez having 19 NFL games under his belt. Not to mention we get our whole f'n screen game back with Washington here again, and then ANOTHER pass catching option in LT at RB.

It really disappoints me that it's not. Everyone wants to get the kid a shiny new toy to play with when he hasn't even mastered the toys he already has. Makes nooooooo *****in sense to me.

But we still have yet to have a big time playmaker on our team....

Dude, did you see how easily Braylon Edwards got separation from guys when he was with us? He may not have caught a ton of deep balls every game, but Edwards IS a potential big time playmaker...and he's much, much, much more likely to do it than the 2nd-5th best WR in this draft in their rookie year. Maybe if we were talking about getting Dez Bryant this WR stuff would make sense, but no one's shooting for the only guy who is an obvious first round pick at the position.

Even if you think that argument is weak, what makes a rookie who isn't even the best WR in his class likely to become a big time playmaker in the NFL immediately?

Edited by SenorGato
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But we still have yet to have a big time playmaker on our team....golden tate can also fill big needs on kr/pr, not only slot receiver. I think in this league you need to be a good passing teaeam. Having tate on the field will also stop opposing defenses from crowing closer to the line of scrimmage. We need a desean jackson. We need him.

If Tate was guaranteed to be DeSean Jackson, there would be no chance that he would slip to pick 29. There are question marks with him as well.

And FWIW a KR/PR/slot WR as you described isn't something teams typically spend a first round pick on. Anywhere from round 3-5 you can find somebody who could fill that mold...doesn't need to be Tate. Jackson even was a second round pick, and this is a deeper draft IMO. I just don't see why we're talking about NEEDING to take a third WR in the first round for a run-first team...it just doesn't make any sense from a value standpoint. Those are the guys you get later, not earlier.

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If Tate was guaranteed to be DeSean Jackson, there would be no chance that he would slip to pick 29. There are question marks with him as well.

And FWIW a KR/PR/slot WR as you described isn't something teams typically spend a first round pick on. Anywhere from round 3-5 you can find somebody who could fill that mold...doesn't need to be Tate. Jackson even was a second round pick, and this is a deeper draft IMO. I just don't see why we're talking about NEEDING to take a third WR in the first round for a run-first team...it just doesn't make any sense from a value standpoint. Those are the guys you get later, not earlier.

Ok then wat different position player would be better than tate? u want d line? odrick perhaps? well srry to break the news but hes goin to either the ravens or pats. you want a pass rusher? graham will be gone...u want hughes? a high risk bust player? This draft isnt that deep in receiver talent compared to how deep the d line talent is.

At #29 there is no other option other than going by the BPA rule. Tate will be the bpa at 29.

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Ok then wat different position player would be better than tate? u want d line? odrick perhaps? well srry to break the news but hes goin to either the ravens or pats. you want a pass rusher? graham will be gone...u want hughes? a high risk bust player? This draft isnt that deep in receiver talent compared to how deep the d line talent is.

At #29 there is no other option other than going by the BPA rule. Tate will be the bpa at 29.

This post is actually entertaining. You act as if everything when it comes to the draft is set in stone...players A, B, and C will be gone and thus player D will be the best player on the board. Players do from time to time slip farther than expected...it's part of the fun.

If this team wants a particular player they'll move up to get him. That much should be obvious. Free safety, defensive line, pass rusher, wide receiver, offensive line, there are a bunch of possible positions they could move up to attempt to address.

As for defensive linemen you can't guarantee that Odrick will be gone although it is likely, and even if so perhaps they like Mount Cody who should be there at 29. Maybe they reach for somebody like Linval Joseph. Maybe they target somebody in a move down.

Not sure how you've got Hughes as a higher risk to bust than a guy like Tate...or how Tate is BPA. There are other possibilities at OLB as well. Moving up to get Kindle or Graham...maybe they like Everson Griffen.

Somebody could go into a free fall as well. Dez Bryant and Anthony Davis are two guys who come to mind. Maybe Iupati slides a little farther than people expect. Taylor Mays could be somebody Ryan likes.

Hell, even at WR maybe they're intelligent and instead of drafting a guy who's likely to be a #2/#3 they say hey, Cotchery can play in the slot if we go with a 3 WR set and we could need a replacement for Edwards, maybe we draft somebody with #1 potential like Benn or Bay Bay.

Plus there's always the possibility of trading down. Yes, it's harder to do than it seems. I'm not saying that they should absolutely trade down, because it takes two to tango. But if they don't like the board there and some team wants to move up, there's another possibility for you.

I will say this, I trust this regime right now. I'll respect whatever move they end up making and figure that it should work out well.

But if you know anything about the draft it's that you can't speak in absolutes, at least in the way you did. You can guarantee that Suh or McCoy land in the top 5 or that Okung goes top 10, but the stuff that you said...likely but in no way a lock. The Hughes and Tate things were silly though...guaranteeing that Tate's going to be BPA at 29 is absolutely ridiculous and Hughes doesn't have a higher bust factor than most other players who will go in the late first/early second. If you elect to reply to anything in this post please answer this question for me: how the hell is Tate guaranteed to fall to 29 AND be BPA?

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odrick should be long gone by 29... wr is a bigger need than defense. I dont understand why the defense is #1 in the league and most still see them going defense in the first round. the offense needs help!

The offense will be fine if sanchez plays like anything other then a lost rookie..

There's really nothing more to do to the offense then adding a slot receiver and depth along OL, at the end of the day the offense will go as far as sanchez takes them..

Edited by CTM
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This post is actually entertaining. You act as if everything when it comes to the draft is set in stone...players A, B, and C will be gone and thus player D will be the best player on the board. Players do from time to time slip farther than expected...it's part of the fun.

If this team wants a particular player they'll move up to get him. That much should be obvious. Free safety, defensive line, pass rusher, wide receiver, offensive line, there are a bunch of possible positions they could move up to attempt to address.

As for defensive linemen you can't guarantee that Odrick will be gone although it is likely, and even if so perhaps they like Mount Cody who should be there at 29. Maybe they reach for somebody like Linval Joseph. Maybe they target somebody in a move down.

Not sure how you've got Hughes as a higher risk to bust than a guy like Tate...or how Tate is BPA. There are other possibilities at OLB as well. Moving up to get Kindle or Graham...maybe they like Everson Griffen.

Somebody could go into a free fall as well. Dez Bryant and Anthony Davis are two guys who come to mind. Maybe Iupati slides a little farther than people expect. Taylor Mays could be somebody Ryan likes.

Hell, even at WR maybe they're intelligent and instead of drafting a guy who's likely to be a #2/#3 they say hey, Cotchery can play in the slot if we go with a 3 WR set and we could need a replacement for Edwards, maybe we draft somebody with #1 potential like Benn or Bay Bay.

Plus there's always the possibility of trading down. Yes, it's harder to do than it seems. I'm not saying that they should absolutely trade down, because it takes two to tango. But if they don't like the board there and some team wants to move up, there's another possibility for you.

I will say this, I trust this regime right now. I'll respect whatever move they end up making and figure that it should work out well.

But if you know anything about the draft it's that you can't speak in absolutes, at least in the way you did. You can guarantee that Suh or McCoy land in the top 5 or that Okung goes top 10, but the stuff that you said...likely but in no way a lock. The Hughes and Tate things were silly though...guaranteeing that Tate's going to be BPA at 29 is absolutely ridiculous and Hughes doesn't have a higher bust factor than most other players who will go in the late first/early second. If you elect to reply to anything in this post please answer this question for me: how the hell is Tate guaranteed to fall to 29 AND be BPA?

Lol. Wow, you have got to be kidding me right? Not saying I go strictly upon what a mock draft says but most mock drafts have tate going to us at 29. When you think about it though it really wouldnt make sense for any other team to get him. He will no doubt be the BPA in my mind. Even if odrick slips he still is the BPA. Jerry hughes will be the prototypical 3-4 olb bust in this draft. He lacks size and therefore gets pushed around on run plays. He also relies solely on speed to get to the quarterback without showing an "elite' moves. Trust me I do my homework.

Yes, you are right, anything can happen on the draft day. But Im only saying that if we do just stay at #29 there are not many choices that is worth a first rounder based on your needs. Please I did my homework, now do me the favor and do your homework by looking at golden tate superior highlights. Ill start you out with one. Heres Tate making a complete joke out of Mays.

We gotta be smart people. I trust Tannybum to work his magic in this upcoming draft.

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Lol. Wow, you have got to be kidding me right? Not saying I go strictly upon what a mock draft says but most mock drafts have tate going to us at 29. When you think about it though it really wouldnt make sense for any other team to get him. He will no doubt be the BPA in my mind. Even if odrick slips he still is the BPA. Jerry hughes will be the prototypical 3-4 olb bust in this draft. He lacks size and therefore gets pushed around on run plays. He also relies solely on speed to get to the quarterback without showing an "elite' moves. Trust me I do my homework.

Yes, you are right, anything can happen on the draft day. But Im only saying that if we do just stay at #29 there are not many choices that is worth a first rounder based on your needs. Please I did my homework, now do me the favor and do your homework by looking at golden tate superior highlights. Ill start you out with one. Heres Tate making a complete joke out of Mays.

We gotta be smart people. I trust Tannybum to work his magic in this upcoming draft.

Please, do my HW and watch Tate highlights? How about watching actual games where it's not just the best plays that he makes? I've watched Tate play plenty, he's got decent speed but his acceleration can be questionable and while he goes up to attack the ball he still doesn't look like a natural hands catcher after transitioning from RB. He's nice after the catch, but at his height going up against NFL athletes he's not going to be able to go up and get jump balls consistently, and it's not a lock he gets open deep about NFL talent either. Implying that I haven't "done my HW" by looking at mock drafts from websites where anybody can throw out an opinion and watching highlights is silly.

I'm not sure you really understand what BPA means to be honest, you throw out the term and somehow it makes sense to you that a high talent player would slip to pick 29 guaranteed and then be the best player on the board. If Tate is so good why could no other team use him? I just fail to understand how you're so certain somebody will be available and the best player, it just makes no sense at all. Especially when you're basing it off of a bunch of mock drafts done by random internet hacks who don't know much more than I do about what's actually going to happen on draft day and I just follow the draft as a hobby. Also, given there isn't great value at #29 wouldn't you say that there's a good chance Tannenbaum moves and we don't end up picking there? Pretty logical, no?

Hughes has the same size as a guy like Kindle, he's got fluid hips to drop into coverage, and he actually has some very good moves rushing the passer contrary to whatever you've read somewhere, though that could improve. His motor is also excellent and he's a hard worker, which are the main things though because that means he'll still bother people when on the field and his moves will certainly improve over time. Not like he's pure speed off the edge. His main concern is actually level of competition and facing right tackles so consistently, but he's certainly got the skills to do well there. Though you did manage to get him not being that stout correct. That issue gets masked a little in the 3-4.

The biggest thing I don't get though is why you think we'll be locked into picking at 29. And then from there why Tate is guaranteed to be both there and BPA, which just seems to defy all logic. Everything else is little bickering stuff that all sorts of people will disagree on.

Edited by derp
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I'm not jumping on the we have to take Tate bandwagon and I don't even think we need to take offense, but I think it makes at least as much sense as D.

I swear I really thougtht his would be common sense. Edwards in his first full season, Keller in that big3rd year after showing some big time ability his first two years, Cotchery being Cotchery, and Sanchez having 19 NFL games under his belt. Not to mention we get our whole f'n screen game back with Washington here again, and then ANOTHER pass catching option in LT at RB.

It really disappoints me that it's not. Everyone wants to get the kid a shiny new toy to play with when he hasn't even mastered the toys he already has. Makes nooooooo *****in sense to me.

It is common sense that the passing offense will improve. However, improving on 31 can still suck. Sanchez may still need to master the offense, but adding more tools (or toys) will not make it more difficult, it will make it easier.

Dude, did you see how easily Braylon Edwards got separation from guys when he was with us? He may not have caught a ton of deep balls every game, but Edwards IS a potential big time playmaker...and he's much, much, much more likely to do it than the 2nd-5th best WR in this draft in their rookie year. Maybe if we were talking about getting Dez Bryant this WR stuff would make sense, but no one's shooting for the only guy who is an obvious first round pick at the position.

Even if you think that argument is weak, what makes a rookie who isn't even the best WR in his class likely to become a big time playmaker in the NFL immediately?

Percy Harvn was.

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^^ Harvin's better than any of this drafts' 2-5 at WR. Much better even...he only fell to 22 because teams really value character nowadays.

Also, I'm fine with adding more tools for the offense...outside of the first round where we can at least get proper value.

Edited by SenorGato
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^^ Harvin's better than any of this drafts' 2-5 at WR. Much better even...he only fell to 22 because teams really value character nowadays.

Also, I'm fine with adding more tools for the offense...outside of the first round where we can at least get proper value.

I'm all about the value, but IMO 3-4 DEs are rarely value picks at the top of the draft. [Obviously the same is true of slot WRs] 3-4 DEs usually take time to develop and can often be taken from tweener DT prospects. That may well have changed with all these teams switching to 3-4, but if the Jets are going weigh need into the draft process they NEED O more than they NEED D.

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I'm all about the value, but IMO 3-4 DEs are rarely value picks at the top of the draft. [Obviously the same is true of slot WRs] 3-4 DEs usually take time to develop and can often be taken from tweener DT prospects. That may well have changed with all these teams switching to 3-4, but if the Jets are going weigh need into the draft process they NEED O more than they NEED D.

That's not true at all...except for Kentwan Balmer all the 3-4 ends from the first round all started day 1. Seymour, Castillio, Warren, Jackson, Spears....sure enough, we have a hole at starting DE. If we drafted a Cody or Odrick or whoever, I'd expect them to start or at least rotate heavily with DeVito at the other DE spot.

WR OTOH...those guys do tend to take time and develop.

Edited by SenorGato
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That's not true at all...except for Kentwan Balmer all the 3-4 ends from the first round all started day 1. Seymour, Castillio, Warren, Jackson, Spears....sure enough, we have a hole at starting DE. If we drafted a Cody or Odrick or whoever, I'd expect them to start or at least rotate heavily with DeVito at the other DE spot.

WR OTOH...those guys do tend to take time and develop.

You're saying you get value because the guys start? That's not my criteria. See Dwayne Robertson or Bryan Thomas. Value is value. It might be there at DE, it might not. A good team picking at 29 may not be best served picking somebody to start right away.

Edited by #27TheDominator
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You're saying you get value because the guys start? That's not my criteria. See Dwayne Robertson or Bryan Thomas. Value is value. It might be there at DE, it might not. A good team picking at 29 may not be best served picking somebody to start right away.

I don't get it. Those guys are all good players...I take a 3-4 DE because I expect him to be more valuable to the team in 2010 than a first round WR would be.

Why would we not be best served by picking someone who can start right away at a position we have a hole at? Especially given that there's probably a lockout in 2011 so the Jets are going to really try to win it all next year...

Edited by SenorGato
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I don't get it. Those guys are all good players...I take a 3-4 DE because I expect him to be more valuable to the team in 2010 than a first round WR would be.

Why would we not be best served by picking someone who can start right away at a position we have a hole at? Especially given that there's probably a lockout in 2011 so the Jets are going to really try to win it all next year...

You may be right. On the other hand, we may be better off re-signing Douglas and another WR rather than drafting D line in the first. Starting is overrated these days. IF a guy is in the rotation and making plays it's worth more than 10 Chris Bakers.

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