Official JN Schottenheimer Discussion Thread

[jason423]

As usual, there were plenty of mind-bogglingly dumb calls all over the place. Was it all that much worse than normal? Not particularly, although that 4th down wildcat play call was probably the worst call of the NFL season. It was that bad. However, this isn't some sort of new revelation on Schotty based on this game, it's just the same story that we've been seeing for five years now. You're not replacing the entire offense and the fact is that we're never going to know what these guys are capable of until they have an opportunity to be properly coached. He's clearly not getting through to them, as the Jets are getting worse by the week on offense from top to bottom. Plus consider that we've already seen multiple instances of former Jets performing significantly better with different coaching, and there's no reason the same won't hold true for the current Jets.

In the end, maybe it won't make a difference, but the point is that it potentially could and after five years it's blatantly obvious that there is nothing Schotty is going to do that's going to change anything. It's not like it can get any worse than it already is, so what's the downside really? Outside of a list of excuses, there's no particularly solid reasoning for retaining him in this position.

Id agree there is no reason to keep him. Its amazing how many excuses there are for him. He has been here 5 years and his offense are nothing better than average. The nature of the game sees guys like him go on every other team regardless of the situation. I do think Rex has to get some of the blame here though too. I think his weekly "we rule" speeches about his team dont give his players reason to ever focus on the negative. There are so many other coaches in the NFL that will do nothing but talk negative even after a win in an effort to keep the players focused on improving. Not that Rex has to do that all the time, but he has to make an effort to have his players know they are not getting the job done and its not ok even when they win a game.

[T0mShane]

Comparing an OC in football to a baseball manager is dumb. He designs the entire offense and they have scored 6 points in 2 games against 2 terrible defenses. Thats unforgivable.

I was making the point that you can always blame any loss on the players failing in between the lines, but that doesn't necessarily exonerate the coach, especially when those players fail at the same tasks repeatedly.

[Integrity28]

Id agree there is no reason to keep him. Its amazing how many excuses there are for him. He has been here 5 years and his offense are nothing better than average. The nature of the game sees guys like him go on every other team regardless of the situation. I do think Rex has to get some of the blame here though too. I think his weekly "we rule" speeches about his team dont give his players reason to ever focus on the negative. There are so many other coaches in the NFL that will do nothing but talk negative even after a win in an effort to keep the players focused on improving. Not that Rex has to do that all the time, but he has to make an effort to have his players know they are not getting the job done and its not ok even when they win a game.

Agreed.

Great teams, don't take time to celebrate small victories. Great teams, proactive criticize what they do poorly AND what they do well, in order to do it BETTER. You did something great? Fine, next time do it better. That attitude is not persistent with the Jets.

The Jets attitude sounds more like a ******* self-help recording "we are good enough, and doggone it people should like us!" **** that.

We get it, Rex came he said we can compete with these guys (the Patriots) and we all bought in... the fans, the players, the owner, the press... everyone. We went out, we got the Patriots attention, and they responded... they went to work, to try to be better than good enough to beat the Jets. While the Jets, sat back and basked in the echo of their own chest thumping.

And while we've (the fans and the team) all been "explaining" that the Jets are going to be the best team in football... the Patriots went out and worked to become the best team in the league, again.

[SenorGato]

^^ That's what happens when you're chasing someone else instead of doing you. Jets built their team to beat the '07-'mid10 Pats...not this reinvention of their old offense...they need a game to get their confidence back because now I think this team is a little shook.

[Integrity28]

^^ That's what happens when you're chasing someone else instead of doing you. Jets built their team to beat the '07-'mid10 Pats...not this reinvention of their old offense...

It's also what happens when you have a players coach - who thinks everyone on the sideline with him is the best in the league at whatever they do, whether its offensive playcalling, throwing interceptions, being pancake blocked, falling down when the ball is thrown to you, or simply tripping a player when they run past you.

[Guest Jpf4671]

It's also what happens when you have a players coach - who thinks everyone on the sideline with him is the best in the league at whatever they do, whether its offensive playcalling, throwing interceptions, being pancake blocked, falling down when the ball is thrown to you, or simply tripping a player when they run past you.

Don't forget hunter is also the best backup lineman in the league,lol

[ECURB]

Everyone always trying to steal my thunder... lol

[jack48]

Won't happen until at least the offseason. Not that I'm supporting him. Just telling you it's not going to happen. At least I hope to god he's gone.

If Rex brings him back, then Rex's fate should be tied to his. You don't win games with defense the way you used to in this league. Defenses don't completely shut teams down like some of them used to. Corners cannot manhandle and QBs have a force field around them. You have to have consistent offense to succeed over a long season

[donboyO]

You guys scream for Ground and Pound and cry when we run on 1st down, UnBelievable when we go No Huddle you scream and want Ground and Pound. Our OL has underperformed all year as well as QB, yet you blame OC. Far worse problems than our OC

[ECURB]

You guys scream for Ground and Pound and cry when we run on 1st down, UnBelievable when we go No Huddle you scream and want Ground and Pound. Our OL has underperformed all year as well as QB, yet you blame OC. Far worse problems than our OC

Sanchez (well no QB) needs to be throwing it 40+ times... that almost always equals a loss when your team is built like the JETS...

[Guest Jpf4671]

Why is Sanchez always sitting alone ( still yr 2 now ) or riding the damn bike on the sideline? All I see Peyton manning doing is studying those pictures

[SenorGato]

You guys scream for Ground and Pound and cry when we run on 1st down, UnBelievable when we go No Huddle you scream and want Ground and Pound. Our OL has underperformed all year as well as QB, yet you blame OC. Far worse problems than our OC

When the run sucks we're the best no huddle offense in the legaue...when the no huddle sucks we're the best running team in the league...in both cases it comes down the playcalling...Seems to require a leap of faith in the player's direction...not sure they deserve that kind of due.

[RutgersJetFan]

Far worse problems than our OC

No. No he's by far the worst problem amongst a sea of problems. Through the vast plethora of problems that plague our team, he's actually the easiest one to point out.

The solution? Easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbB_HVcXpPk

[donboyO]

No. No he's by far the worst problem amongst a sea of problems. Through the vast plethora of problems that plague our team, he's actually the easiest one to point out.

The solution? Easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbB_HVcXpPk

Sorry I saw Sanchez have about 4 picks dropped, OL looked awful, I do not care what OC was calling plays QB was awful

[serphnx]

Sanchez (well no QB) needs to be throwing it 40+ times... that almost always equals a loss when your team is built like the JETS...

Well we can't run, and putting Brad Smith in is pointless. Brady and Brees top 40 passes quite often. Either this team needs to start running again or they have to start throwing. This term gets thrown around a lot but this team really does need an identity.

It's funny how these guys all gave up after they got paid. The O-line doesn't even try to block anymore. This is why you pay the QB the most and keep the rest of them hungry. Your superstar players will show up because they take a lot of pride in being the best. The O-line doesn't really get that recognition so they don't give a **** after they get paid.

[RutgersJetFan]

Sorry I saw Sanchez have about 4 picks dropped, OL looked awful, I do not care what OC was calling plays QB was awful

Awesome! So let's just get rid of the QB, the OL, and the WR's instead.

[SenorGato]

Awesome! So let's just get rid of the QB, the OL, and the WR's instead.

Well in that sense Schotty's the fall guy...everyone knows that....even I expect him gone after this season. What it doesn't mean is that he's the guy who's actually the downfall of the offense.

[dbatesman]

Awesome! So let's just get rid of the QB, the OL, and the WR's instead.

You-know-who is the only person who thinks Schottenheimer should stick around, but I'm with him in waiting for a compelling argument that the OC is responsible for how ungodly terrible Sanchez is.

[jason423]

Awesome! So let's just get rid of the QB, the OL, and the WR's instead.

Agreed but if this collapse continues the Jets have to be careful to not get involved with long term deals with these skill guys if a new OC does not do the trick.

[Integrity28]

Well in that sense Schotty's the fall guy...everyone knows that....even I expect him gone after this season. What it doesn't mean is that he's the guy who's actually the downfall of the offense.

Even you?

[RutgersJetFan]

Well in that sense Schotty's the fall guy...everyone knows that....even I expect him gone after this season. What it doesn't mean is that he's the guy who's actually the downfall of the offense.

Well of course not, he can't be. He's the #3 under-40 offensive mind in the universe.

[jason423]

You-know-who is the only person who thinks Schottenheimer should stick around, but I'm with him in waiting for a compelling argument that the OC is responsible for how ungodly terrible Sanchez is.

I dont think you can. The kid just might stink.If he fails really it falls back on the GM. If Sanchez busts then Tannenbaums drafts since 2008 will rank among the worst in the NFL. Gholston is a bust. Keller isnt anything special. Wilson looks like a bust. Our drafts have been heading downhill since the David Harris pick hit for the team. As for Schotty the only arguments that can be made are based on track record with the QB position which is not good. He also put Sanchez in some wild spots for a rookie last season, but thats no excuse for the piss poor play these last 3 or 4 weeks.

[RutgersJetFan]

You-know-who is the only person who thinks Schottenheimer should stick around, but I'm with him in waiting for a compelling argument that the OC is responsible for how ungodly terrible Sanchez is.

Honestly? I really think it's the weather dude. For a kid that's spent his entire life playing in Cali and the Pac-10, late December games in the north have to be a complete kick in the balls when first starting out. Palmer struggled with it big time in his first year, also had a ton of experience though so I think he was able to adjust to it quicker. IMO he'll be fine eventually.

[Integrity28]

I dont think you can. The kid just might stink.If he fails really it falls back on the GM. If Sanchez busts then Tannenbaums drafts since 2008 will rank among the worst in the NFL. Gholston is a bust. Keller isnt anything special. Wilson looks like a bust. Our drafts have been heading downhill since the David Harris pick hit for the team. As for Schotty the only arguments that can be made are based on track record with the QB position which is not good. He also put Sanchez in some wild spots for a rookie last season, but thats no excuse for the piss poor play these last 3 or 4 weeks.

I am shocked at how much better McCourty has been, compared to Wilson. Can't be a bust in his rookie year though.

It seems to me that Sanchez is constantly looking at 3rd and long, and frankly situational football that does NOT favor a young QB. Sometimes he comes through, most of the time he gets overwhelmed.

[Vicious89x]

Well of course not, he can't be. He's the #3 under-40 offensive mind in the universe.

Wasn't Josh McDaniels #1 on the list?

[SenorGato]

Well of course not, he can't be. He's the #3 under-40 offensive mind in the universe.

You sir, are good at the internet. He already is. I expect a new OC next year. I'm just not sure what all the hubbub is about considering we watch the players play.

[RutgersJetFan]

Wasn't Josh McDaniels #1 on the list?

You're damn right he is.

[RutgersJetFan]

I'm just not sure what all the hubbub is about considering we watch the players play.

Know what makes watching the players play that much more fun? When your buddy next to you at the bar is calling out what play the offense is going to be running before they even line up, and he's right, a lot. In fact he's right so often that the bartender starts pouring shots of Jameson for you guys because it's ridiculously impressive.

Come to think of it, maybe we should keep Schottenheimer.

[SenorGato]

Wasn't Josh McDaniels #1 on the list?

Yep. Then some combo of Schotty, Kyle Shanahan...and to include a couple guys who are over 40 but are still fairly young in the NFL...Shurmur and Garrett.

[Vicious89x]

You're damn right he is.

We should hire him. I see no way this could go wrong.

[RutgersJetFan]

Yep. Then some combo of Schotty, Kyle Shanahan...and to include a couple guys who are over 40 but are still fairly young in the NFL...Shurmur and Garrett.

I can just picture what a combo of Jason Garrett, Brian Schottenheimer, and Jason Garrett would look like.

[dbatesman]

I dont think you can. The kid just might stink.If he fails really it falls back on the GM. If Sanchez busts then Tannenbaums drafts since 2008 will rank among the worst in the NFL. Gholston is a bust. Keller isnt anything special. Wilson looks like a bust. Our drafts have been heading downhill since the David Harris pick hit for the team. As for Schotty the only arguments that can be made are based on track record with the QB position which is not good. He also put Sanchez in some wild spots for a rookie last season, but thats no excuse for the piss poor play these last 3 or 4 weeks.

Honestly? I really think it's the weather dude. For a kid that's spent his entire life playing in Cali and the Pac-10, late December games in the north have to be a complete kick in the balls when first starting out. Palmer struggled with it big time in his first year, also had a ton of experience though so I think he was able to adjust to it quicker. IMO he'll be fine eventually.

Hope so. But after games like this I can't help but recall all the bass-ackward draft buzz about how we loved Freeman's chalk talk, then said "that's our guy" after USC's pro day. At this point that's looking less like a cute story and more like the FO following a lifetime defensive coach into the breach as he brazenly disregarded the only reliable metric of QB prospect evaluation because he was captivated by the leadership El Guapo displayed in shorts and shells.

[SenorGato]

Know what makes watching the players play that much more fun? When your buddy next to you at the bar is calling out what play the offense is going to be running before they even line up, and he's right, a lot. In fact he's right so often that the bartender starts pouring shots of Jameson for you guys because it's ridiculously impressive.

Come to think of it, maybe we should keep Schottenheimer.

You could have written more detail into that scene. Does your buddy eventually pass out, but even in that state manages to call "run left for -1" just as the Jets do it? Does the whole room start catching on and a few Dolphins fans start cheering him on? Do the both you get pissed and tell the Dolphins fans to stfu or you'll kick their asses? Did you go to fisticuffs? Did you friend punch one of the guys as he yelled "f*ck you Schotty...Sanchez fumble!" in the same instant Sanchez gets the ball smacked out of his hand?

[jason423]

Hope so. But (this is also RE: Jason) after games like this I can't help but recall all the bass-ackward draft buzz about how we loved Freeman's chalk talk, then said "that's our guy" after USC's pro day. It's getting harder and harder to convince myself that that's just a cute story and not a lifetime defensive coach brazenly disregarding the only reliable metric of QB prospect evaluation because he was captivated by the leadership El Guapo displayed in shorts and shells.

I dont know how much stock anyone puts in those numbers. In my own analysis the bust rate in the top 10 over a 10 year period was about 53%. The bust % in the rest of round 1 is something like 72% busts (made worse by the fact that the good ones were all picked at 11). Basically nobody came out of 2 except Brees. I believe the guys that hit the college starts/completion % criteria have included guys like John Beck, Kevin Kolb, Matt Leinart and Vince Young. I believe it said Aaron Rodgers would suck while Tim Tebow would be awesome (and myabe he will). Im positive the FO guys used to go wild on how Matt Ryan would be so bad in the pros. Can it help you eliminate some guys? Maybe it can, but I think no matter what its just more or less a 50/50 proposition. I think in Sanchez' case his completion percentage in his one year was way high for their metric evaluation and at that time its just deciding if the player is mature enough to handle the NFL (which is really what that number of starts stat more or less measures in my opinion). The Jets thought he was. I guess we will see if they are right or wrong these next three weeks because his career will blow up if they finish 9-7 again.

[madmikeisback]

Don't forget his HORRIBLE usage of LT and Greene. Just another reason he needs to go.