Star Wars Mafia

[CTM]

Slats is probably right. Not like you're going to buy my reveal anyway, since I can't give you one today without being modkilled.

I've dropped hints as to part of my role, but Bleedin says if I go any farther, I'm toast. I need a certain event to happen before I can reveal. If you were in a buying mood, I'd ask you to give me a day and let me reveal tomorrow (pretty sure its happening tonight).

But whatever. Lynch me. And when you see my coroner report, take my opinion that DPR, Crusher and Brett are high probability scum for whatever you think its worth

ugh.. you always resist death harder as scum then you do town..

unless you are really rolled up.. which i think mostly everyone is

and again, this "reveal" is so lame that i'm convincing myself to believe you because I honestly think if you we're lying you'd do a better job of it..

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Unvote Crusher

Vote DPR

I don't really know if this is gonna go anywhere today, but his last few posts are dripping with intent. And from my take on the situation so far, he's selling things that I have a feeling are wrong.

[Integrity28]

Mmmm-kay... now suddenly Doggin is pseudo-revealing, while hinting that DPR, Crusher and Brett are scum... and conveniently, JVOR just so happens to be making a push against DPR a post or two later.

Looks like everyone is done PM'ing... and now today's plan is in action.

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count

Crusher (2) - slats, Doggin

JVoR (3) - JiF, Klecko, Dan X

Doggin (7) - AVM, Sharrow, Integrity, DPR, SMC, Crusher, brettw4rd

AVM (1) - Pac

Dan X (1) - CTM

DPR (1) - JVOR

With 17 players remaining, it takes 9 votes to feed the Sarlacc.

[slats]

Mmmm-kay... now suddenly Doggin is pseudo-revealing, while hinting that DPR, Crusher and Brett are scum... and conveniently, JVOR just so happens to be making a push against DPR a post or two later.

Looks like everyone is done PM'ing... and now today's plan is in action.

It's ironic that Doggin initially got in hot water for suggesting that the doc consider protecting you N1, when in reality I have a feeling that you're their bestest bud.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Mmmm-kay... now suddenly Doggin is pseudo-revealing, while hinting that DPR, Crusher and Brett are scum... and conveniently, JVOR just so happens to be making a push against DPR a post or two later.

Looks like everyone is done PM'ing... and now today's plan is in action.

I feel like I keep needing to remind you of this. This game is not transparent, you have to look at what's going on behind the scenes, people's motives and agendas. DPR's post focusing on the 3 of us is dripping with intent in my opinion. It's very much trying to set up his future lynch candidates.

I don't share everything i'm feeling right away because it gives too much ammunition for scum to manipulate the game to lead me astray. Just because I don't vocalize suspicions doesn't mean that i'm not having them.

[The Crusher]

Slats is probably right. Not like you're going to buy my reveal anyway, since I can't give you one today without being modkilled.

I've dropped hints as to part of my role, but Bleedin says if I go any farther, I'm toast. I need a certain event to happen before I can reveal. If you were in a buying mood, I'd ask you to give me a day and let me reveal tomorrow (pretty sure its happening tonight).

But whatever. Lynch me. And when you see my coroner report, take my opinion that DPR, Crusher and Brett are high probability scum for whatever you think its worth

Truth is Im not scum, but you seem to not be buying anything either. I only have a minute until I can come back at 1. Truth is I don;t really trust what DPR is selling. I also am not going to lynch a power role or any townie until Im convinced your lying. Im not.

unvote

Until I can re-read at 1.

[Doggin94it]

ugh.. you always resist death harder as scum then you do town..

unless you are really rolled up.. which i think mostly everyone is

and again, this "reveal" is so lame that i'm convincing myself to believe you because I honestly think if you we're lying you'd do a better job of it..

Pretty sure everyone has a role.

Honestly? Don't read anything into the lack of fight. Real life kind of sucks at the moment, and its affecting my play in all the games I'm in. In fact, after this one, another ongoing game at DM, and a third game that I promised the mod I'd play, I'm taking a mafia playing break until the RL **** gets straightened out. I'll still mod, but I won't be playing. I don't like being this off.

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count

Crusher (2) - slats, Doggin

JVoR (3) - JiF, Klecko, Dan X

Doggin (6) - AVM, Sharrow, Integrity, DPR, SMC, brettw4rd

AVM (1) - Pac

Dan X (1) - CTM

DPR (1) - JVOR

With 17 players remaining, it takes 9 votes to feed the Sarlacc.

[Vicious89x]

Frustrating, this is.

A lot has been made of the doggin case. I can't say I'm a huge fan of his "Doc do what I tell you" move but at the same time something just feels... off. And now he's rolling over more or less which makes me feel less certain about it.

If anything doggin/slats have made the point already, with all the attention doggin has gotten, there should be some information for us out there to draw up a solid day 2. What does everyone else think?

[DPR]

Not really liking this post at all. You are definitely taking a stance on this it's completely the opposite of how i'm reading the situation. If all 3 of us is innocent you're setting up the ability to pick us off one by one under the pretense that you think at least one of us is guilty and missing 2 just means "you missed the one".

You calling it an emotional argument does not make it one, nor does it make it invalid. Crusher has picked up a crapload of defenders and i'm highly doubting that all of them are townies just thinking he's innocent.

Also, I don't give a crap about generating sympathy, and you trying to frame it that way is a gross misinterpretation of what it was.

I gave my opinion and you didn't like it. That's all that happened. To be fair, I wouldn't have expected you to like it, nor support it, so no surprises there.

But if you look back, I always said it was my opinion. I'm careful to distiguish opinion from fact because facts are the building blocks of the cases. Opinions are just opinions...maybe you agree with one, maybe you don't, but to get back to that court of law analogy, no one goes to jail based on opinions. Only evidence.

So let's look at the solid, factual evidence that we have so far and see what kind of picture that reveals.

I'll step back and let you present it - and that's not a trap - it's just me shutting up so that folks don't thing I'm trying to swing anything.

If you were a lawyer, what would you lay out as proof for these cases?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I gave my opinion and you didn't like it. That's all that happened. To be fair, I wouldn't have expected you to like it, nor support it, so no surprises there.

But if you look back, I always said it was my opinion. I'm careful to distiguish opinion from fact because facts are the building blocks of the cases. Opinions are just opinions...maybe you agree with one, maybe you don't, but to get back to that court of law analogy, no one goes to jail based on opinions. Only evidence.

So let's look at the solid, factual evidence that we have so far and see what kind of picture that reveals.

I'll step back and let you present it - and that's not a trap - it's just me shutting up so that folks don't thing I'm trying to swing anything.

If you were a lawyer, what would you lay out as proof for these cases?

I'm more than happy to do so when I feel there's a strong enough case to present one. I.E i don't go all out day one unless there's something clear and apparent that's bugging me. Right now there isn't. That said, I very much trust my intuition in these types of games. You can crap on that all you want and my response is this, we play differently and I find my way to be effective for me.

As the game progresses and we need to make more and more crucial decisions i'm fine with detailing my exact thoughts. Right now, i'm not okay doing that. Others have played with me before, I'm more than up to the challenge of presenting cases, but it's counterproductive to do so before there's enough evidence to get someone lynched.

[AVM]

Frustrating, this is.

A lot has been made of the doggin case. I can't say I'm a huge fan of his "Doc do what I tell you" move but at the same time something just feels... off. And now he's rolling over more or less which makes me feel less certain about it.

If anything doggin/slats have made the point already, with all the attention doggin has gotten, there should be some information for us out there to draw up a solid day 2. What does everyone else think?

This. I do know that I don't want to risk killing a town power role, as Crusher said. I also agree with you, that this is confusing but somethings just not right. I almost think I sort of buy this, from Doggin, I really do. I've spent the last few minutes or so looking for some "hinting" posts, and I couldn't really find anything that stuck out to me though.

I'll unvote, for now, and keep looking for a bit. I still only have a couple guys I'm comfortable voting for, though.

[HessStation]

Holy **** I was only gone yesterday. This game is really hard to keep up with. I'm on page 68 right now but figured I'd drop a post. So far (as of pg 68 I'm willing to jump on this doggin train, I think. I still don't like his reasoning behind the 128/doc thing. I also have a feeling the new guy/who is alos a wiley vet, DPR is possibly acting independently. He's either that or possible scum, but I think finding out what doggin actually is will help us understand others' positions....however everyone keeps saying that....so much that now scum would be acting accordingly.

[slats]

Frustrating, this is.

A lot has been made of the doggin case. I can't say I'm a huge fan of his "Doc do what I tell you" move but at the same time something just feels... off. And now he's rolling over more or less which makes me feel less certain about it.

If anything doggin/slats have made the point already, with all the attention doggin has gotten, there should be some information for us out there to draw up a solid day 2. What does everyone else think?

Do you like Doggin as scum, Vic? Or is there someone you like better?

You don't have a vote on the tote board right now, I'm curious about what you think.

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count

Crusher (2) - slats, Doggin

JVoR (3) - JiF, Klecko, Dan X

Doggin (5) - Sharrow, Integrity, DPR, SMC, brettw4rd

AVM (1) - Pac

Dan X (1) - CTM

DPR (1) - JVOR

With 17 players remaining, it takes 9 votes to feed the Sarlacc.

[HessStation]

The new brainiac is trying to push a theory that me, JVoR, and/or Doggin coordiinated our votes on Crusher somehow. The fact that I know that I'm not scum puts some serious damage into that idea from my perspective being that I was the first to vote Crush.

Are you paying attention?

For some reason I really don't think you're scum this time. I agree DPR is pushing his agendas way too far...but I'm not sure exactly why yet. He is major FOS for me.

However you keep bringing up his attack on you as if you're the only "victim". He's been all over the place and now, at least where I am in this thread, is all about doggin.

[AVM]

Holy **** I was only gone yesterday. This game is really hard to keep up with. I'm on page 68 right now but figured I'd drop a post. So far (as of pg 68 I'm willing to jump on this doggin train, I think. I still don't like his reasoning behind the 128/doc thing. I also have a feeling the new guy/who is alos a wiley vet, DPR is possibly acting independently. He's either that or possible scum, but I think finding out what doggin actually is will help us understand others' positions....however everyone keeps saying that....so much that now scum would be acting accordingly.

Yeah, there's a lot. I feel handcuffed to saying much, as 99% of what I'd say would just be quoting and agreeing at this point. Then it looks scummy. I tend to agree it's getting pretty crazy.

[HessStation]

Sorry I've been absent for the past couple of hours, guys ... I've been getting ready for a busy day tomorrow! I'll read and vote before going to bed.

LOL, your posts are funny. You drop one in sporadically throughout the game and it always starts with an apology. Whaaat exactly are you so sorry about? Is the inner Dan X feeling guilty of her scuminess?

[AVM]

Oh, btw -- I'm thinking over all the past games, and MOST of the time there's been one of these kind of showdowns, theres been one scum amidst several townies. CTM I know was alluding to it's just as likely none are scum as it is both,or just one is...but I'd feel PRETTY confident that one is in the midst of this (which admittedly is mostly just the two of them).

[Vicious89x]

Do you like Doggin as scum, Vic? Or is there someone you like better?

You don't have a vote on the tote board right now, I'm curious about what you think.

If you had asked me this question yesterday, I would've said doggin, 100%, no questions asked.

But the way the game has progressed, there have been things that have me questioning my opinion. The way he's been gone after, and the people that have voted have made me feel oddly uneasy about the fact that I'm wrong.

I still really, REALLY don't like him coming out of the gates and telling the doc to forgo the self-protect to protect I28. I just can't understand that. You're leaving yourself totally open to a random lucky shot and being down the one person who can hang in all game AND cost the scum an NK, which would work out in our favor. If scum knows I28 is protected, then they go elsewhere and have a chance of hitting doc. If doc self-protects, they have NO shot at getting them. Not that I28 isn't a good player, I just always see our Doc and cop roles to be our 2 most important.

To be honest slats, I don't know who is scum. That's part of the issue isn't it? If I had to take a guess with one shot and the game on the line I'd have to take a shot at brett. He is a n00b, but at the same time he has watched our games before and knows how it works. He stayed off doggin and then put out a later vote to put doggin at L-2. It's a good spot IMO for a scum to put their vote. The case was stalling. Although the conversation was active, no one was putting their vote on doggin and that steam seemed to have cooled off. Putting him closer to a lynch ratchets up the interest again and could lead to the final push.

I could be totally wrong of course. And at this point in the game I feel we have more to learn for doggins death than from Brett's death. I still haven't decided where to put my vote because of this. I'm torn one way because I think we can learn something and increase our odds of hitting scum on day two. Conversely, in my gut I believe brett is more scummy. If he's scum and we get him I'll high five myself, but if he's an innocent... what do we learn?

[slats]

For some reason I really don't think you're scum this time. I agree DPR is pushing his agendas way too far...but I'm not sure exactly why yet. He is major FOS for me.

However you keep bringing up his attack on you as if you're the only "victim". He's been all over the place and now, at least where I am in this thread, is all about doggin.

He's trying to tie the three of us together, for whatever reason. I thought I was pretty clear in pointing that out.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

If you had asked me this question yesterday, I would've said doggin, 100%, no questions asked.

But the way the game has progressed, there have been things that have me questioning my opinion. The way he's been gone after, and the people that have voted have made me feel oddly uneasy about the fact that I'm wrong.

I still really, REALLY don't like him coming out of the gates and telling the doc to forgo the self-protect to protect I28. I just can't understand that. You're leaving yourself totally open to a random lucky shot and being down the one person who can hang in all game AND cost the scum an NK, which would work out in our favor. If scum knows I28 is protected, then they go elsewhere and have a chance of hitting doc. If doc self-protects, they have NO shot at getting them. Not that I28 isn't a good player, I just always see our Doc and cop roles to be our 2 most important.

To be honest slats, I don't know who is scum. That's part of the issue isn't it? If I had to take a guess with one shot and the game on the line I'd have to take a shot at brett. He is a n00b, but at the same time he has watched our games before and knows how it works. He stayed off doggin and then put out a later vote to put doggin at L-2. It's a good spot IMO for a scum to put their vote. The case was stalling. Although the conversation was active, no one was putting their vote on doggin and that steam seemed to have cooled off. Putting him closer to a lynch ratchets up the interest again and could lead to the final push.

I could be totally wrong of course. And at this point in the game I feel we have more to learn for doggins death than from Brett's death. I still haven't decided where to put my vote because of this. I'm torn one way because I think we can learn something and increase our odds of hitting scum on day two. Conversely, in my gut I believe brett is more scummy. If he's scum and we get him I'll high five myself, but if he's an innocent... what do we learn?

And your thoughts on DPR?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

He's trying to tie the three of us together, for whatever reason. I thought I was pretty clear in pointing that out.

it's worse than that in my opinion. He tried selling the fact that at least one of us 3 is scum. Not all 3. This means that he can get 2 wrong and still have the built-in excuse of thinking it was the last one. I really suspect Slats and Doggin much less than I do Crusher and DPR.

To me, the Doggin case is razor thin. It's the same reason being echoed and echoed of Doggin discussing a doc protection on a known innocent. Could there be a watcher on the scum team? Yes, but that's highly speculatory. Am I the only one that understands the potential logic that Doggin was trying to push across? We have no idea which is the right course of action because we don't know scum's powers, but haranguing over the theory he put forth is just silly in my opinion. Just seems like an easy talking point for scum to keep hitting on.

[DPR]

I'm more than happy to do so when I feel there's a strong enough case to present one. I.E i don't go all out day one unless there's something clear and apparent that's bugging me. Right now there isn't. That said, I very much trust my intuition in these types of games. You can crap on that all you want and my response is this, we play differently and I find my way to be effective for me.

As the game progresses and we need to make more and more crucial decisions i'm fine with detailing my exact thoughts. Right now, i'm not okay doing that. Others have played with me before, I'm more than up to the challenge of presenting cases, but it's counterproductive to do so before there's enough evidence to get someone lynched.

See, to me, this is a scum post.

1. You accuse me of "intent" - go after me and vote for me - and that's all good, right up to the part where you give your emo speech about me crapping on your post. I just interpreted it. I never even said that it was wrong, just that I disagreed with it.

2. Saying you have info and not giving it is a scumtell. Period. You say that you hold the info back because you don't want it used against you? I will crap on that - seriously, play or lay low, but picking and choosing which things you feel like you can share with the game is pretty lame.

Again, you are are welcome to your opinion. Right now, it looks like you are making a pretty heavy emotional case against me. That's fine.

And I hear what everyone is saying about Doggin - he's a terible person to lose if he's innocent.

We have plenty of time - there's no deadline. Look at the game however you like and make your best decision.

I'm keeping my vote where it is unless some actual info comes our way.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

See, to me, this is a scum post.

1. You accuse me of "intent" - go after me and vote for me - and that's all good, right up to the part where you give your emo speech about me crapping on your post. I just interpreted it. I never even said that it was wrong, just that I disagreed with it.

2. Saying you have info and not giving it is a scumtell. Period. You say that you hold the info back because you don't want it used against you? I will crap on that - seriously, play or lay low, but picking and choosing which things you feel like you can share with the game is pretty lame.

Again, you are are welcome to your opinion. Right now, it looks like you are making a pretty heavy emotional case against me. That's fine.

And I hear what everyone is saying about Doggin - he's a terible person to lose if he's innocent.

We have plenty of time - there's no deadline. Look at the game however you like and make your best decision.

I'm keeping my vote where it is unless some actual info comes our way.

Basically anything you disagree with is emotional. Got it.

[StraightCash]

If you had asked me this question yesterday, I would've said doggin, 100%, no questions asked.

But the way the game has progressed, there have been things that have me questioning my opinion. The way he's been gone after, and the people that have voted have made me feel oddly uneasy about the fact that I'm wrong.

I still really, REALLY don't like him coming out of the gates and telling the doc to forgo the self-protect to protect I28. I just can't understand that. You're leaving yourself totally open to a random lucky shot and being down the one person who can hang in all game AND cost the scum an NK, which would work out in our favor. If scum knows I28 is protected, then they go elsewhere and have a chance of hitting doc. If doc self-protects, they have NO shot at getting them. Not that I28 isn't a good player, I just always see our Doc and cop roles to be our 2 most important.

To be honest slats, I don't know who is scum. That's part of the issue isn't it? If I had to take a guess with one shot and the game on the line I'd have to take a shot at brett. He is a n00b, but at the same time he has watched our games before and knows how it works. He stayed off doggin and then put out a later vote to put doggin at L-2. It's a good spot IMO for a scum to put their vote. The case was stalling. Although the conversation was active, no one was putting their vote on doggin and that steam seemed to have cooled off. Putting him closer to a lynch ratchets up the interest again and could lead to the final push.

I could be totally wrong of course. And at this point in the game I feel we have more to learn for doggins death than from Brett's death. I still haven't decided where to put my vote because of this. I'm torn one way because I think we can learn something and increase our odds of hitting scum on day two. Conversely, in my gut I believe brett is more scummy. If he's scum and we get him I'll high five myself, but if he's an innocent... what do we learn?

Well, I think you and others who might be pinging me as scum need to re-evaluate how you analyze a player. All ive done this game is just speak my opinion and what I was thinking.. no agendas and no lies.

As far as the vote on Doggin goes.. if every person who puts some1 at L2.. or places a vote a little later than everyone else is going to be suspected as scum, then I think we are going to be here at D1 for awhile.

About to go to class for 3 hours.. Ill check in after, but then have a ton more class tonight (Wednesdays are the worst). Happy hunting

[DPR]

Basically anything you disagree with is emotional. Got it.

Bah - it's not like you posted evidnece and I tried to refute it, but whatever. It serves no purpose for me to make folks angry, I'm just playing the way i do. I know it's agressive. I really look at as being up-front and not hiding, but I'll take my lumps if you find it offensive.

Let'd do this - Doggin may be mafia, and he may not be - it's 50/50 right? If he is, he;s definitely not the only one, so take the focus off of him. Who else, including me, would you make a case against?

[SMC]

Bah - it's not like you posted evidnece and I tried to refute it, but whatever. It serves no purpose for me to make folks angry, I'm just playing the way i do. I know it's agressive. I really look at as being up-front and not hiding, but I'll take my lumps if you find it offensive.

Let'd do this - Doggin may be mafia, and he may not be - it's 50/50 right? If he is, he;s definitely not the only one, so take the focus off of him. Who else, including me, would you make a case against?

Actually, it's a 23.5% chance that Doggin is mafia.

[Vicious89x]

And your thoughts on DPR?

He is the person I think we stand to learn the most about. It's obvious that he has been going at doggin pretty hard and has been the one driving the case home. His whole point about you, slats and doggin working as one cohesive unit isn't something I've bought into at all. I've played enough with the 3 of you to know that no offense, you're not that retarded to make a gaffe like that. His play has been scummy to me. It's plain and simple. And it's part of the reason I've been leery of dropping my vote on doggin.

I made my points on doggin loud and clear, and then he basically took over the thread and has been steering ever since. The only problem is that some of doggins responses to him have been peculiar to me. Doggin's play to me has been scummy, about 98% of it. The only thing that made me kind of step back and say... "maybe I'm wrong" is this rolling over thing. DPR's play has been scummy to me as well. Hell dude, we could even be dealing with the doggin move of two scum slugging it out for the trust of the town. I'm at a loss right now, and I really hate this town divided stuff. Makes it too easy for scum to pull off doggins move.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Bah - it's not like you posted evidnece and I tried to refute it, but whatever. It serves no purpose for me to make folks angry, I'm just playing the way i do. I know it's agressive. I really look at as being up-front and not hiding, but I'll take my lumps if you find it offensive.

Let'd do this - Doggin may be mafia, and he may not be - it's 50/50 right? If he is, he;s definitely not the only one, so take the focus off of him. Who else, including me, would you make a case against?

How is Doggin being mafia 50-50? It's not he is or he isn't, assuming 1/4 of the game is mafia that's a 25% chance of everyone being mafia. Unless you somehow have some information that spikes Doggin to 50-50.

You, Crusher, Vicious, Dan, Brett, and SMC are people I would be okay with lynching today. I think there's multiple scum/anti town among the group i mentioned.

[HessStation]

VOTE: Doggin

I'm squimish because I'm really not sure either way but imo it's our best chance for insight into other roles thus far.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

He is the person I think we stand to learn the most about. It's obvious that he has been going at doggin pretty hard and has been the one driving the case home. His whole point about you, slats and doggin working as one cohesive unit isn't something I've bought into at all. I've played enough with the 3 of you to know that no offense, you're not that retarded to make a gaffe like that. His play has been scummy to me. It's plain and simple. And it's part of the reason I've been leery of dropping my vote on doggin.

I made my points on doggin loud and clear, and then he basically took over the thread and has been steering ever since. The only problem is that some of doggins responses to him have been peculiar to me. Doggin's play to me has been scummy, about 98% of it. The only thing that made me kind of step back and say... "maybe I'm wrong" is this rolling over thing. DPR's play has been scummy to me as well. Hell dude, we could even be dealing with the doggin move of two scum slugging it out for the trust of the town. I'm at a loss right now, and I really hate this town divided stuff. Makes it too easy for scum to pull off doggins move.

The thing I don't like about this is your whole agreeing with the points in person but you don't follow through with it in your voting. And at the end of it, your inclination is to go after the point that i'm a complete 180 from you on.

[DPR]

Actually, it's a 23.5% chance that Doggin is mafia.

You know what I meant...he's either or he isn't.

[Vicious89x]

The thing I don't like about this is your whole agreeing with the points in person but you don't follow through with it in your voting. And at the end of it, your inclination is to go after the point that i'm a complete 180 from you on.

Dude- I got HAMMERED last game because of my voting. I tried to tone it down because I don't want to have to sit here and explain every single one of my votes. The way I always play is to try and follow other people's points, consider them, and then vote. Last game I just voted right away. Now I'm trying to weigh my options more carefully. Sorry if I'm now not voting enough. This game is maddening sometimes.