So what, is Marshall NOT a low character guy anymore?

[stoicsentry]

Marshall...of all the talk about him, why no whining about how he's "low character"? I mean why can we pick up Santonio and that's like a blight on humanity but if the Phins get Marshall it's like he's a choir boy all of the sudden meanwhile we're "Raiders East" cause we have all of about 3 guys that have issues... ridiculous.

[#27TheDominator]

Marshall got paid. Everybody figures that huge contract buys them at least one year of good behavior.

[villain_the_foe]

Marshall got paid. Everybody figures that huge contract buys them at least one year of good behavior.

F**K the Dolphins.

[Falcon63]

Marshall...of all the talk about him, why no whining about how he's "low character"? I mean why can we pick up Santonio and that's like a blight on humanity but if the Phins get Marshall it's like he's a choir boy all of the sudden meanwhile we're "Raiders East" cause we have all of about 3 guys that have issues... ridiculous.

QFT

[Klecko73isGod]

Marshall...of all the talk about him, why no whining about how he's "low character"? I mean why can we pick up Santonio and that's like a blight on humanity but if the Phins get Marshall it's like he's a choir boy all of the sudden meanwhile we're "Raiders East" cause we have all of about 3 guys that have issues... ridiculous.

QFT

This whole "Raiders East" thing is overblown and ridiculous.

[NYJ37/12]

First I've heard of this Raider east thing. Sounds stupid. I really cant think of anyone on the team beside Ellis (pot), Holmes (pot), Edwards (fight), that have been in trouble. Cromartie makes babies, not responsible, but not a crime.

Marshall just got married so they feel he will grow up. We shall see. The phins also have three other guys who were arrested this off season for dui and assault.

[Thai Jet]

Marshall got paid. Everybody figures that huge contract buys them at least one year of good behavior.

I'm bettin it won't. Once he samples that Miami lifestyle he's toast.

[slats]

Marshall got paid. Everybody figures that huge contract buys them at least one year of good behavior.

He hasn't gotten paid, yet. The first year of the deal is just his tender offer from the Broncos, the rest of the contract doesn't kick in until after that. I believe if he screws up this year, the fish can release him with minimal financial damage.

So that's why they might get one year of good behavior out of him.

Usually going back home to get paid gets more players in trouble than anything else, though. All his old friends are close by to hang out and get him to spend some of that cash in questionable ways.

[slats]

Marshall just got married so they feel he will grow up.

We'll see. I never considered violence towards women until I got married. This thug's obviously done more than just consider it. Let's see how he acts when he actually has a wife.

[neckdemon]

He hasn't gotten paid, yet. The first year of the deal is just his tender offer from the Broncos, the rest of the contract doesn't kick in until after that. I believe if he screws up this year, the fish can release him with minimal financial damage.

So that's why they might get one year of good behavior out of him.

Usually going back home to get paid gets more players in trouble than anything else, though. All his old friends are close by to hang out and get him to spend some of that cash in questionable ways.

they signed a contract....unless they put some sort of clause in there wouldnt they be responsible for the guaranteed portion of the contract if they released him?

[slats]

they signed a contract....unless they put some sort of clause in there wouldnt they be responsible for the guaranteed portion of the contract if they released him?

Here's my source, take it for what you will. But I find Florio to be pretty good with these contract matters.

The truth on the Brandon Marshall deal

Posted by Mike Florio on April 17, 2010 5:57 PM ET

Now that NBC has produced and aired a commercial that makes us look a lot better at this than we really are, we need to periodically put something up here that justifies the characterization.

So here's one to consider.

Many of you have wondered how and why the Miami Dolphins could have made Brandon Marshall the highest-paid receiver in NFL history. The easy answer, as we pointed out the other day, is that they didn't -- his widely-reported four-year, $47.5 million extension fairly should be regarded at best as a five-year, $50 million contract, giving Marshall a $10 million annual average that matches the yearly total paid to Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald.

Now for the truth.

For starters, the full contract is worth $47.3 million over five years. It contains a phony $2.7 million roster bonus payable in 2014 -- but only if Marshall participates in 95 percent or more of the Dolphins' special teams plays in 2010.

Why would this be included? To allow Marshall and his agent to characterize the contract as a package worth $10 million per year. Truth be told, it's worth $9.46 million annually.

(That may not seem like much of a difference, but the phantom roster bonus allows Marshall and his agent, Kennard McGuire, to claim with a straight face that Marshall is getting $10 million per year.)

Then there's the notion that the Dolphins would pay $24 million in guaranteed money to a guy with a history of off-field incidents. Surely, V.P. of football operations Bill Parcells hasn't lost his mind, right?

He hasn't. (Or, more accurately, if he has, this isn't proof of it.)

With the 2009 decision in the Plaxico Burress grievance that signing bonus money can be recovered only if the player holds out or retires, a $20 million signing bonus would have been untouchable, even if Marshall had been suspended for a year or longer. So the Dolphins instead have paid out a signing bonus of $5.5 million. Coupled with a guaranteed base salary (for skill and injury) of $4 million in 2010, Marshall's contract has a minimum value of $9.5 million over one year.

Here's the kicker. If the Dolphins decide before April 2, 2011 that Marshall isn't who they thought he was, they can walk away, possibly without paying Marshall another penny. Prior to April 2, 2011, he has only $3 million in future guaranteed money that already has been unlocked. But the contract contains offset language; if they cut him and someone else pays him $3 million in 2011, the Dolphins are off the hook for the balance of the contract.

And even if the Dolphins pay a $3 million option bonus due on April 2, 2011, guaranteed base salaries of $6.5 million in 2011 and $6 million in 2012 (he also has $3 million in non-guaranteed base pay in 2012) can be nullified if Marshall is suspended by the league.

So, for now, the only guaranteed money is $12.5 million, with an offset for up to $3 million. If the Dolphins decided to keep him past April 2, 2011, another $9.5 million in guaranteed base salaries will be available -- as long as Marshall stays out of trouble.

These facts are another reason why it's always dangerous to accept at face value the numbers that the player's camp begins to parrot as soon as the deal is signed.

The problem is that the agent has an incentive to get a skewed version of the contract into the media, the team rarely is willing to say anything that would dampen the "highest paid player!" parade, and the reporter who gets the information often is so determined to be first that the question of whether or not the information is accurate often gets lost in the shuffle. (And, yes, we've done that once or twice -- and we hope that we have learned from it.)

As for the bolded portion, I think Marshall would have to do something really outlandish to screw himself over here, and just don't see it as much of a possibility. Because while the fish would be off the hook financially, they'd still owe the Broncos a 2nd round pick in 2011 if they released him.

Still, it looks like they gave themselves a little protection in a worst case scenario situation.

[NJ]

After reading his rap sheet in the other thread - this scumbag makes Randy Moss a Baptist Deacon. He might settle down to some degree to get his cash, but the spots on this leopard won't change and he'll be a disruption in fishville too.

[Smashmouth]

Yes we only gave up a 5th round choice and the Fins gave up two #2's BUT they got the better WR and they got him signed and he has never been suspended. Brandon had issues but I dont think hes a bad kid. Holmes on the other hand is already going to be serving his 4 game suspension so his next offense is a 10 game?? or A year yet people think we are in a better position and this is pretty funny.

When you look at our situation a 5th was a great move but in the end what matters is how much the players involved contribute to their teams. Draft picks or no draft picks right now it comes down to the players and what they do on the field and in that respect I think the Dolphins got the better player.

For the type of offense we run I think Marshall was the better player for us as well. hes a chain Mover Just like Key and Chrebet used to be. Hopefully Putting Cotch in the slot will make this whole WR thing work out. And hopefully the Character of Our organisation will keep Santonio on a good path.

[dbatesman]

Yes we only gave up a 5th round choice and the Fins gave up two #2's BUT they got the better WR and they got him signed and he has never been suspended. Brandon had issues but I dont think hes a bad kid. Holmes on the other hand is already going to be serving his 4 game suspension so his next offense is a 10 game?? or A year yet people think we are in a better position and this is pretty funny.

He's not a better player, but frankly I'm much more disturbed by your use of league-mandated suspensions as the benchmark of moral rectitude, partially because their respective crimes are burning one down and serially abusing women, mainly because you're completely wrong about Marshall never being suspended.

[crashingjet]

He's not a better player, but frankly I'm much more disturbed by your use of league-mandated suspensions as the benchmark of moral rectitude, partially because their respective crimes are burning one down and serially abusing women, mainly because you're completely wrong about Marshall never being suspended.

You're not serious, are you?

mainly because you're completely wrong about Marshall never being suspended

He served a 1 game suspension from the NFL. The rest of his suspensions were team suspensions, because Josh McDaniels is a tyrant not seen since the likes of Napoleon Bonapart.

[Smashmouth]

He's not a better player, but frankly I'm much more disturbed by your use of league-mandated suspensions as the benchmark of moral rectitude, partially because their respective crimes are burning one down and serially abusing women, mainly because you're completely wrong about Marshall never being suspended.

If Marshall was suspended I did not know.... exactly what suspension did the league give to Marshall and what was it for ? But I dont see him serially beating women didnt he have 1 domestic dispute that was settled the next day ? Ill have to go read that thread again I guess. And hes a much better player than Holmes for the type of offense we run. But I guess 3 years of 100 + catches means nothing compared to Santonio

[Smashmouth]

So Santonio was arrested for a Domestic Dispute then a few years later he was charged with throwing a glass in a womens face ? Hmmmm I guess its all how you look at it and from what perspective.

Read the legal troubles of Santonio and Marshall on Wiki and you let me know what sounds worse Debatesman. Marshalls Domestic Dispute was that he would not let a taxi leave his home with his giorlfrind in it after an arguement. Sounds alot less worse that smashing a glass in her face.

In Marshalls case it sounds like he was acting like an Immature child ...Santonio on the other hand seems like a thug. i hope Im wrong and I hope Santonio lights it up and gets his life straight

[dbatesman]

The suspension was 3 games in 2008, appealed down to one + a game check. Santonio's rap sheet is immaterial to me.

I'm not getting into the numbers again. If you're incapable of dividing one number by another, take it up with your school board because there's really nothing I can do for you.

[Smashmouth]

The suspension was 3 games in 2008, appealed down to one + a game check. You can look up his rap sheet on your own, but there's plenty there.

I'm not getting into the numbers again. If you're incapable of dividing one number by another, take it up with your school board because there's really nothing I can do for you.

Are you capable of a normal conversation without being a ****ing smartass ? I looked up both Rap sheets and Santonios seems much worse to me.

[dbatesman]

Are you capable of a normal conversation without being a ****ing smartass ? I looked up both Rap sheets and Santonios seems much worse to me.

How do you think I feel? The loudest people here are the same ones who view math as witchcraft.

Should have clarified: Santonio's rap sheet is immaterial to me because my interest in a debate about the relative integrity of two NFL dopes ended the moment I corrected you for "I dont think [Marshall is] a bad kid."

[Jetsfan80]

Both Holmes and Marshall are scumbags. Both Marshall and Holmes are talented. Both players can be cut after 1 season with little or no financial consequences.

Difference is, we got Santonio for a 5th, Dolphins had to cough up two 2nd rounders.

How Smashmouth thinks Miami made out better is beyond me. In one of the deepest drafts in years, us being able to keep our 1st and 2nd rounders was HUGE.

[Smashmouth]

How do you think I feel? The loudest people here are the same ones who view math as witchcraft.

Should have clarified: Santonio's rap sheet is immaterial to me because my interest in a debate about the relative integrity of two NFL dopes ended the moment I corrected you for "I dont think [Marshall is] a bad kid."

I never intended to get into a debate with you nor did you imply as much . You responded to my first post in this thread. That started a back and forth I was not looking for a debate with you.

I think Marshall is an immature child whos getting his act together or at least I hope he is.

Santonio on the other hand seems to have a bit of a mean streak in him that usually gets you into more trouble down the road. You can grow out of immatureity however its much harder to get rid of a mean streak or a bad temper. This is what worries me about Holmes. Is there really much to argue about here ?

[JohnnyHector]

I'm not getting into the numbers again. If you're incapable of dividing one number by another, take it up with your school board because there's really nothing I can do for you.

That, and being able to differentiate between fantasy football performance and on-field value...

[JohnnyHector]

they got the better WR and they got him signed ... people think we are in a better position and this is pretty funny.

it comes down to the players and what they do on the field and in that respect I think the Dolphins got the better player.

Is there really much to argue about here ?

Apparently, yes, there is.

[Smashmouth]

Both Holmes and Marshall are scumbags. Both Marshall and Holmes are talented. Both players can be cut after 1 season with little or no financial consequences.

Difference is, we got Santonio for a 5th, Dolphins had to cough up two 2nd rounders.

How Smashmouth thinks Miami made out better is beyond me. In one of the deepest drafts in years, us being able to keep our 1st and 2nd rounders was HUGE.

The difference is they have him signed and he does not have to serve a 4 game suspension like our guy does. What you say anout the up coming draft is correct we will have our picks and there is a possibility we might trade up for an even better pick but next year when all that is done we still have a troubled guy to sign if we want to keep him here. My opinon on the 2 players is simple Marshall is a better WR and is signed long term with an "out" in the contract for Miami. Santonio is not signed and he is not a better WR. Thats why he only cost us a 5th anything other than a fifth would have been questionable

What Im saying here is not a discussion of what we gave up as opposed to what Miami gave up, its a thought on moving forward and moving forward Miami is settled in with marshall while we still have question marks. we dont even get to see Santonio until week 5.

[Smashmouth]

That, and being able to differentiate between fantasy football performance and on-field value...

Fantasy football performance ?? Are you kidding me, Where in any post I have ever made in this forum do I ever quote stats in relation to how a player fits on a given team ? Fantasy Football ? Give me a ****ing break.

I dont argue stats I argue how a player fits in a system which is certainly much more important than fantasy football stats.

If you think a Big posession reciever vs a burner is more valuable to the Jets then your the one playing the fantasy here. The Jets are a ball control offense First and foremost. Brandon Marshall was the better fit here not Santonio.

[stoicsentry]

The difference is they have him signed and he does not have to serve a 4 game suspension like our guy does. What you say anout the up coming draft is correct we will have our picks and there is a possibility we might trade up for an even better pick but next year when all that is done we still have a troubled guy to sign if we want to keep him here. My opinon on the 2 players is simple Marshall is a better WR and is signed long term with an "out" in the contract for Miami. Santonio is not signed and he is not a better WR. Thats why he only cost us a 5th anything other than a fifth would have been questionable

What Im saying here is not a discussion of what we gave up as opposed to what Miami gave up, its a thought on moving forward and moving forward Miami is settled in with marshall while we still have question marks. we dont even get to see Santonio until week 5.

We have the ups in that we get to *choose* between Braylon and Santonio, if necessary. And we have Cotchery already, so we'll have at least 2 talented receivers moving forward, they don't have that luxury.

[Jetsfan80]

Smashmouth, you're sorely underestimating Holmes' value if you think anything more than a 5th rounder would have been too much. The dude is a former Super Bowl MVP and a WR1.

Even having Holmes for "just" 12 weeks (more if we make the postseason) for just 1 season would mean far more production than what we would potentially get out of our 5th round pick.

The Dolphins basically gave away a pair of potential starters by unloading two 2nds for Marshall.

[JohnnyHector]

Fantasy football performance ?? Are you kidding me, Where in any post I have ever made in this forum do I ever quote stats in relation to how a player fits on a given team ? Fantasy Football ? Give me a ****ing break.

I dont argue stats I argue how a player fits in a system which is certainly much more important than fantasy football stats.

If you think a Big posession reciever vs a burner is more valuable to the Jets then your the one playing the fantasy here. The Jets are a ball control offense First and foremost. Brandon Marshall was the better fit here not Santonio.

Your initial statements had nothing to do with their skillsets as it relates to the NY Jets offense, as you were dealing in absolutes. If you're not basing your assessment that Marshall is the "better player" on fantasy numbers, then on what basis did you form this opinion?

As far as how they fit on the Jets, I'd much prefer to have the receiver that doesn't require the ball to be thrown to him 150+ times in order for his impact to be felt when the Jets have 3 good wideouts plus a pass-catching TE to which they can spread the ball around.

FYI - Holmes had around 10 less YAC on the season than Marshall on ~ 25 less receptions. I'm confident that the Jets will be able to move the chains without needing to rely on Marshall's monster Y/R numbers.

[HardKoreXXX]

So...the top four threads in this forum are all Dolphins related. You guys need the draft to get here REAL fast.

[The Crusher]

So...the top four threads in this forum are all Dolphins related. You guys need the draft to get here REAL fast.

Who are you kidding. After that it will be the top six threads.

[HardKoreXXX]

Who are you kidding. After that it will be the top six threads.

Speaking of the draft, I miss the: "And the Jets select (blank) from (blank) University... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" reactions from you guys. What gives? Do we get one this year?

/crosses fingers

[The Crusher]

Speaking of the draft, I miss the: "And the Jets select (blank) from (blank) University... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" reactions from you guys. What gives? Do we get one this year?

/crosses fingers

Not sure. But their was a fair amount when Sanchez was picked.

[Klecko73isGod]

Not sure. But their was a fair amount when Sanchez was picked.

To be fair, it was really only a couple of attention whores. For the most part, the Sanchez pick was greeted with cheers.

[HardKoreXXX]

I don't remember too many boos for Sanchez. I was shocked when you guys traded up to get him though.