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Gholston looking to add bulk and move to DE?


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Dynamite drop-in, Sven.

Vernon Gholston could gain 60 more pounds and will still be a worthless peice of ****.

Shirley you jest?

Enlighten me then...although occupying blockers as a 3-4 end is one of the main jobs, it isnt all they do

Their primary job is to occupy blockers in the run game and collapse the pocket in the passing game, both allowing the LBs to make plays.

I did not say they don't ever rush the passer, simply that the notion that they rush the passer every play (which is false for 4-3 DEs as well), or even nearly as much as 4-3 DEs, is false.

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I really don't know how he can bulk up. Where is he going to add that weight? He is already so huge...and I guess it's possible to put on 30 lbs of muscle in 4 months but man that's a lot of weight. For those that don't know, once you get past a certain amount your body actually actively will drop weight, just by you doing nothing. And if you actually do something, it becomes even more impossible to keep it on.

The only way I can see the addition is with roids and trying to keep pace with Jenkins in eating habits.

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At outside linebacker he offers very little. I applaud his efforts to move to DE. If he can occupy blockers and assume the skills that made him successfull when he was coming off the line in college then this could allow our defense to dominate on another level. I assume we will be drafting either DE or OLB in the first round, and if Gholston can play DE opposite Ellis then we may be on the brink of greatness. I could see this D keeping opponents under two hundred total yards and 14 points a game. If Gholston only offers depth with signs of improvement this would be great moving forward. There is too much age on the line.

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I still believe in Gholston. I've always said that he was obviously out of position. The test at LB has been tried and failed. Its hit his image very hard yet I havent heard this guy once b*tch about coaches missing the point that he's not a LB. Put him at DE and give him a legit crack at the position.

I'd take the chance here. We should move down in the draft and start racking up on solid players for the O and D line.

Gholston is the key to a dynasty.

Do you understand that an edge rushing DE, which is what Gholston was in college, is the same job as the OLB in a 3-4? A DE in a 3-4 is generally a 4-3 DT who just needs to tie blockers.

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I still believe in Gholston. I've always said that he was obviously out of position. The test at LB has been tried and failed. Its hit his image very hard yet I havent heard this guy once b*tch about coaches missing the point that he's not a LB. Put him at DE and give him a legit crack at the position.

I'd take the chance here. We should move down in the draft and start racking up on solid players for the O and D line.

Gholston is the key to a dynasty.

This is a good post. Gholston has definitely been written off and rightfully so. He just isn't going to cut it at OLB. BUT if he could move back to DE, even if it was just passing downs, and he produces then WOW.

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While I do think this move does provide him with a better opportunity for success, there's something else here that I think is getting missed. Even more than the fact that the move may fit his skillset better, is the fact that Gholston cares enough and is willing to put into the effort (and for a guy that big to bulk up with another 20 - 30 pounds is no small task), that is at least a good sign. One of the biggest criticisms that have been heard about him is his lack of drive / motivation. Perhaps this is a turning point.

Of course he could do it and turn out to be just as big of a failure, but at least the effort is being made.

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Do you understand that an edge rushing DE, which is what Gholston was in college, is the same job as the OLB in a 3-4? A DE in a 3-4 is generally a 4-3 DT who just needs to tie blockers.

If it was the same job it wouldn't require a transition and there would be no analysis as to whether players could play standing up in the NFL. And there's a major difference between 4-3 DT's and 3-4 DE's as well, mainly in the requisite height and arm length. I generally get your point but that's far too general a pair of statements.

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Do you understand that an edge rushing DE, which is what Gholston was in college, is the same job as the OLB in a 3-4? A DE in a 3-4 is generally a 4-3 DT who just needs to tie blockers.

Yes, I would think he understands that.

But right now this is trying to make caviar out of cod fish. So anything that would make Gholston productive is well appreciated.

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Am I the only 1 that read that as he wants to play as a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4 DE?

If he wanted to play DE in a 4-3 there would be no need for him to add weight.

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We'll still take a player who projects to DE on a 3-man line. If Gholston bulks up and starts to pan out, and could someday be start-able at that position, great. Ellis isn't getting any younger anyway (not to mention 2010 is the last year of his contract). So if DeVito isn't a sure keeper opposite Ellis we need 2 DE's for long-term anyway.

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Not a surprise at all. He played Pryce's end position probably more than anything else last season and the biggest issue with that was the lack of bulk. He's certainly got the frame and strength for the position.

If only he had a move or two.

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While I do think this move does provide him with a better opportunity for success, there's something else here that I think is getting missed. Even more than the fact that the move may fit his skillset better, is the fact that Gholston cares enough and is willing to put into the effort (and for a guy that big to bulk up with another 20 - 30 pounds is no small task), that is at least a good sign. One of the biggest criticisms that have been heard about him is his lack of drive / motivation. Perhaps this is a turning point.

Of course he could do it and turn out to be just as big of a failure, but at least the effort is being made.

Wow Bleedin' Green, that was really heartwarming.

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According to this blogger, that's exactly what he's looking to do.

I saw the link on Twitter and asked the author about it directly. He said he's got a source, and that's what's going on. The whole blog post is pretty good, but this is the pertinent portion for me:

We'll see. Jets definitely have a void at that position. If they can get anything out of Gholston, I'll take it.

He heard this on ESPNradio in January and he's talking about it now?

None of the beat writers have picked up on this the whole offseason?

Has anyone seen Gholston "more bulked up" recently? Gotta wonder about this. Don't really need a source for this. If Gholston is bulking up it'll be obvious.

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I'm just saying we were 3 - 1 with VG as the starter at outside linebacker. I'm not saying his contributions were immense, but we really didn't get exposed at that position if you watch those games, he was basically in position to cover the backside most of the time, also showing a little hesitation to get mean when the ball came his way.

I'm just saying we weren't terribly exposed, that's all.

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Vernone's problem is not bulk, muscles, speed, or even work ethic, his problem is he is not a football player its more in his mindset than his physical ability. He does not play the game on the attack, he does not dive into piles, he does not assist on tackles, he does not come off blocks. If we were to put him at DE teams would run at him and push him aside so occupying one guy is not what a 3-4 DE does. Because contrary to what people think playing DL in the 3-4 is not just about occupying. You cant occupy if you cant push forward and get penetration and get the attention of the O-Line and the coaches on the opposite side.

In the 3-4, defensive lineman occupy blockers in one way by pushing the pile towards the QB or by penetrating and collapsing the pocket which eventually causes double teams. Thats why Jenkins is so effective at NT because teams can't just block him with one guy they have to use 2 sometimes 3 guys to keep him at bay (center,guard,rb) and even then he pushs the pile up the middle disrupting the QB and running lanes on running plays. BTW this is what we missed in the AFC championship game vs Manning. The way to disrupt Peyton is NOT the outside rush its the collapse of the pocket up the middle pushing Peyton out of his comfort zone "the pocket". While our DL did a good Job vs the run last year they had big problems pushing the pile up the middle with no Jenkins in the game and it showed in the chanpionship game. having 2 fresh NT's in pouha and jenkins this year will make a HUGE difference at the end of games when we had most of our troubles most likely due too a worn out and tired NT.

Prediction is Vernone will be CUT at some point. A roster spot is too important on a team primed to make a SB run. Things will cme up during the season that will need to be addressed and having this space taker on the roster makes no sense.

Edited by Smashmouth
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Vernone's problem is not bulk, muscles, speed, or even work ethic, his problem is he is not a football player its more in his mindset than his physical ability. He does not play the game on the attack, he does not dive into piles, he does not assist on tackles, he does not come off blocks. If we were to put him at DE teams would run at him and push him aside so occupying one guy is not what a 3-4 DE does. Because contrary to what people think playing DL in the 3-4 is not just about occupying. You cant occupy if you cant push forward and get penetration and get the attention of the O-Line and the coaches on the opposite side.

In the 3-4, defensive lineman occupy blockers in one way by pushing the pile towards the QB or by penetrating and collapsing the pocket which eventually causes double teams. Thats why Jenkins is so effective at NT because teams can't just block him with one guy they have to use 2 sometimes 3 guys to keep him at bay (center,guard,rb) and even then he pushs the pile up the middle disrupting the QB and running lanes on running plays. BTW this is what we missed in the AFC championship game vs Manning. The way to disrupt Peyton is NOT the outside rush its the collapse of the pocket up the middle pushing Peyton out of his comfort zone "the pocket". While our DL did a good Job vs the run last year they had big problems pushing the pile up the middle with no Jenkins in the game and it showed in the chanpionship game. having 2 fresh NT's in pouha and jenkins this year will make a HUGE difference at the end of games when we had most of our troubles most likely due too a worn out and tired NT.

Prediction is Vernone will be CUT at some point. A roster spot is too important on a team primed to make a SB run. Things will cme up during the season that will need to be addressed and having this space taker on the roster makes no sense.

Pretty much. He's like Eddy Curry in a sense. Just not fat.

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Vernone's problem is not bulk, muscles, speed, or even work ethic, his problem is he is not a football player its more in his mindset than his physical ability. He does not play the game on the attack, he does not dive into piles, he does not assist on tackles, he does not come off blocks. If we were to put him at DE teams would run at him and push him aside so occupying one guy is not what a 3-4 DE does. Because contrary to what people think playing DL in the 3-4 is not just about occupying. You cant occupy if you cant push forward and get penetration and get the attention of the O-Line and the coaches on the opposite side.

Disagree. I agree he doesn't seem a football player. His problem seems to be mindset more than anything physical. I'm with Matt on this. He wasn't even that ****ing bad at LB. Nothing great, but the team was fine and they played some pretty potent offenses. You say they will push him aside, but I have simply not seen Gholston get pushed aside. He doesn't disengage from blocks, but he doesn't get pushed around either.

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Disagree. I agree he doesn't seem a football player. His problem seems to be mindset more than anything physical. I'm with Matt on this. He wasn't even that ****ing bad at LB. Nothing great, but the team was fine and they played some pretty potent offenses. You say they will push him aside, but I have simply not seen Gholston get pushed aside. He doesn't disengage from blocks, but he doesn't get pushed around either.

Ok well not disengaging blockers is just as bad as being pushed aside same thing IMO actully its even worse from a football perspective because its much easier to pull off than if you just get overpowered.Not much you can do if a guy just oberpowers you.

When he was in the game early in the year teams ran right at him and gained big chunks of yards while he stayed blocked. The one tackle people always seem to point out is the one where he got Johnson from behind where Johnson ran right past him and when the safties slowed him down Vernone caught him from behind. The VG lovers want you to believe he actully ran him down which is pretty funny but thats about the only bright spot in the guys entire career and even thats questionable. He is a terrible football player and has NEVER played a good solid football game in Jet Green. If he did his ass would not have been sitting on the bench when Pace got back never to see the field much at all in the second half of the seaon other than being a spectator on Special teams. he will be cut.

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Ok well not disengaging blockers is just as bad as being pushed aside same thing IMO actully its even worse from a football perspective because its much easier to pull off than if you just get overpowered.Not much you can do if a guy just oberpowers you.

When he was in the game early in the year teams ran right at him and gained big chunks of yards while he stayed blocked. The one tackle people always seem to point out is the one where he got Johnson from behind where Johnson ran right past him and when the safties slowed him down Vernone caught him from behind. The VG lovers want you to believe he actully ran him down which is pretty funny but thats about the only bright spot in the guys entire career and even thats questionable. He is a terrible football player and has NEVER played a good solid football game in Jet Green. If he did his ass would not have been sitting on the bench when Pace got back never to see the field much at all in the second half of the seaon other than being a spectator on Special teams. he will be cut.

Once again, I disagree. I don't remember teams running right at him. Teams averaged less than 75 ypg on the ground and 9 ppg with Gholston starting. I'm not saying he is the reason, but can you explain how they held the Texans, Pats and Saints in check if it's so easy to "run right at him"?Gholston got hurt. He struggled with his hamstring for much of the season. I don't think he's worth the money or the draft pick, but I think the ridiculous hate is a bit overblown.

PS, getting "pushed aside" is about 1,000 times worse than being unable to disenage. He does not break free to make plays, but he can set the edge without being pushed 5 yards back.

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Once again, I disagree. I don't remember teams running right at him. Teams averaged less than 75 ypg on the ground and 9 ppg with Gholston starting. I'm not saying he is the reason, but can you explain how they held the Texans, Pats and Saints in check if it's so easy to "run right at him"?Gholston got hurt. He struggled with his hamstring for much of the season. I don't think he's worth the money or the draft pick, but I think the ridiculous hate is a bit overblown.

PS, getting "pushed aside" is about 1,000 times worse than being unable to disenage. He does not break free to make plays, but he can set the edge without being pushed 5 yards back.

I dont hate VG I just think hes a terrible football player. Absolutely terrible.

Your missing my point on getting pushed aside vs coming off a block. I said its much easier to come off a block, so in my mind its inexcusable when a back runs right by you while you dance with a TE or RT. Now if a RT who has a huge weight advantage over VG pushed him aside It would not bother me as much due to the mismatch.

There is one reason why VG is still in the game of football and i think we all know what it is. Arguing about a guy who really cant play the game is pointless. Thats what drives me crazy about his whole situation. Roster spots are very important to teams primed to make a SB run so it bothers me even more. Hes terrible in every aspect of his game ST, DL, OLB TERRIBLE

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I still believe Gholston is a complete bust. But his biggest weakness, poor reactions, is less harmful at DE than at OLB. Especially in Ryan's 3-4. They play much more one gap than typical 3-4 defenses.

He is still young. What the heck? Give it a try.

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What everyone seems to be forgetting is that D-Rex is a genius. He will find something for the Ghost.

I'll be honest I don't like Vernon, but why not have high hopes? If he comes out on top that's great, but we will be getting some other pass rusher as is. So even if he doesnt make a turn around, we'll still have someone else. Like JT, or a draft pick.

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Keep him at LB and let him play. The guy didn't even embarrass himself when he started last year, all he did was not get a sack (oh noez!).

Where do you guys even see room on his body for 20-25 pounds? Is there more of him that might be invisible or something?

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