Noah's Ark found

[JMJ]

so you saying "there is no god" is a faith based statement, since you can't prove it. yes?

Re-posting what I already wrote:

I am an Agnostic Atheist. Atheist because I don't believe in God or God's, and Agnostic because the reason I don't believe in them is because I do not feel we have sufficient evidence, knowledge, or facts to believe in them.

So my non-belief has nothing to do with faith, and everything to do with deductive reasoning.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I respect your right to to believe whatever it is you want to believe, but I'm curious.

Do you believe everything came from something else other than "A superior being creating it."

If so what to you think that is?

If not, and you believe everything came from nothing.

Is there a reason you find it easier to believe that everything came from nothing instead of something?

I don't have answers to your questions. No one really does...we all have our beliefs, but I don't think we'll ever really know.

On a personal note, I've seen enough carnage as a 20 year old Army Ranger to make the most religious person question his beliefs. I was on the fence back then when it came to religion...what I went through, put me over that fence. I know the religious sects tell you to separate that...I can't.

[THE ILK]

I wouldn't say I have faith, per se. I just feel we have insufficient evidence to believe in anything. Live by the golden rule (treat others the way you would like to be treated) and everything will sort itself out on it's own.

Who taught you the golden rule?

Is it something you came up with on your own?

Did you hear it from someone? Where did they here it?

Do you wonder where it came from? How it was originated? Who thought of it first?

If God is a spirit, then perhaps a little bit of His spirit is in that rule, perhaps people that have that in them, or the spirit of it in them, have a little bit of God's spirit in them.

Look this may sound far fetched to you, but think about it... It's certainly not in everyone.

Now think about this... How do kids know how to lie? Nobody teaches it to them, they just do it.

[SouthernJet]

[JMJ]

Who taught you the golden rule?

Is it something you came up with on your own?

Did you hear it from someone? Where did they here it?

Do you wonder where it came from? How it was originated? Who thought of it first?

If God is a spirit, then perhaps a little bit of His spirit is in that rule, perhaps people that have that in them, or the spirit of it in them, have a little bit of God's spirit in them.

Look this may sound far fetched to you, but think about it... It's certainly not in everyone.

Now think about this... How do kids know how to lie? Nobody teaches it to them, they just do it.

Think about this ... we are all BORN atheist. Nobody busts through the womb believing in a God or Gods. We are taught to believe from a very young age by people we trust who were taught before us by people they trust, etc, etc.

So while you are implying that the Golden Rule comes natural ... believing in Gods does not. It is taught (normally through scare tactics - believe or you will burn in hell!).

[CTM]

Re-posting what I already wrote:

I am an Agnostic Atheist. Atheist because I don't believe in God or God's, and Agnostic because the reason I don't believe in them is because I do not feel we have sufficient evidence, knowledge, or facts to believe in them.

So my non-belief has nothing to do with faith, and everything to do with deductive reasoning.

You used deductive reasoning to believe in something else that you don't have sufficient evidence, knowledge, or facts to support, which is a creationist theory sans a god like figure

[JMJ]

You used deductive reasoning to believe in something else that you don't have sufficient evidence, knowledge, or facts to support, which is a creationist theory sans a god like figure

You must be feeling nice and loose after that stretch.

[CTM]

Think about this ... we are all BORN atheist. Nobody busts through the womb believing in a God or Gods. We are taught to believe from a very young age by people we trust who were taught before us by people they trust, etc, etc.

So while you are implying that the Golden Rule comes natural ... believing in Gods does not. It is taught (normally through scare tactics - believe or you will burn in hell!).

meh.. you're talking about religion instead of god again (or whatever you want to call it) ..

i was the type that did the opposite of what i was told and spent most of my time not believing in anything..and i still don't accept my parents indoctrination of their religion, but I find it hard to beleive in nothing as well..

[CTM]

You must be feeling nice and loose after that stretch.

not really.

what is your definition of faith vs. science again, and tell me how unequivicol disbelief fits into the science one again..

[SenorGato]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x63xun_joe-rogan-standup-idiots-of-the-pas_fun

Cliff notes:

- There was probably some really, really smart race before us.

- They died out.

- We claimed their sh*t as our sh*t if/when we found it.

- Hilarity ensues and the whole "apes on ego trips" saga begins.

Oh and just for fun:

jSH6ofHbeUw

I used to be like...overly into this whole proving God doesn't exist thing. I argued with my cousin's priestess wife, my uber religious aunt and uncle, my family priest, and anyone who at least pretended to tolerate it. It then hit me that people will believe what they want they damn well want to.

Where I stand today is that I appreciate the fact that this planet that we're kind of a cancer on allows for our existence. Grand scheme of things is that we're just an intelligent, advanced form of bacteria. It's not a knock it just is....man. Also, there's a governing force out there...it's just not something you preach about on a football forum...there is something naturally beautiful and good about the fact that we exist, and I guess I've decided to make that my religion.

[THE ILK]

I don't have answers to your questions. No one really does...we all have our beliefs, but I don't think we'll ever really know.

On a personal note, I've seen enough carnage as a 20 year old Army Ranger to make the most religious person question his beliefs. I was on the fence back then when it came to religion...what I went through, put me over that fence. I know the religious sects tell you to separate that...I can't.

I think that's terrible, thankfully you are alive.

Not surprising, "religious" people don't necessarily have the strongest beliefs.

I think too many people confuse God and religion, and find it hard to believe God could allow such things to happen.

Let's face it though it is man doing these things to each other, and while God is allowing it to happen for a time, He will not allow it to go on forever.

I know it's hard to understand, I don't claim to understand it, God has just gotten me to a place where I faith that's He's working it all out for good somehow.

It's unfortunate that you have gone through what you have, but you are obviously blessed or lucky to be alive. I'm sure you know many who were not so lucky.

There's still life to live for us though, maybe some day we'll understand things better.

[JMJ]

meh.. you're talking about religion instead of god again (or whatever you want to call it) ..

i was the type that did the opposite of what i was told and spent most of my time not believing in anything..and i still don't accept my parents indoctrination of their religion, but I find it hard to beleive in nothing as well..

I don't. I love not knowing and I'm proud to say it. Think it is fascinating.

[JMJ]

not really.

what is your definition of faith vs. science again, and tell me how unequivicol disbelief fits into the science one again..

I don't have unequivocal disbelief. I don't believe because the facts we have don't warrant belief. That doesn't mean I'm saying there 100% can not be a God or Gods ... just that with the facts we have .... I don't believe.

[CTM]

I don't have unequivocal disbelief. I don't believe because the facts we have don't warrant belief. That doesn't mean I'm saying there 100% can not be a God or Gods ... just that with the facts we have .... I don't believe.

then what do you believe?

[JMJ]

then what do you believe?

That nobody knows the answer(s) and that nobody should act like they do .... cause they don't.

[THE ILK]

Think about this ... we are all BORN atheist. Nobody busts through the womb believing in a God or Gods. We are taught to believe from a very young age by people we trust who were taught before us by people they trust, etc, etc.

So while you are implying that the Golden Rule comes natural ... believing in Gods does not. It is taught (normally through scare tactics - believe or you will burn in hell!).

I was not implying that the Golden Rule comes natural, nor that believing in God does. I was actually implying that lying comes natural to us and the others do not.

I agree with you and have already agreed to this about being taught to believe etc. etc. I don't believe one can be taught or scared into having a true experience with God though, and that is where my faith comes from.

I don't believe what I believe because some one told me about it, or because I read it, or was scared into it. I believe what I believe because of I what I experience personally with God, and because I know that to be more real than anything else I have ever lived.

I don't believe one can truly know God without that, no matter how much they are taught or or threatened.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I think that's terrible, thankfully you are alive.

Not surprising, "religious" people don't necessarily have the strongest beliefs.

I think too many people confuse God and religion, and find it hard to believe God could allow such things to happen.

Let's face it though it is man doing these things to each other, and while God is allowing it to happen for a time, He will not allow it to go on forever.

I know it's hard to understand, I don't claim to understand it, God has just gotten me to a place where I faith that's He's working it all out for good somehow.

It's unfortunate that you have gone through what you have, but you are obviously blessed or lucky to be alive. I'm sure you know many who were not so lucky.

There's still life to live for us though, maybe some day we'll understand things better.

But, you know what, I envy people like you. At least you have solace in the idea that there is something "better" out there. I on the other hand don't have that luxury.

[THE ILK]

But, you know what, I envy people like you. At least you have solace in the idea that there is something "better" out there. I on the other hand don't have that luxury.

Hey, if I stayed focused on people and this world I would be in the same boat as you my friend. It's down right disturbing when I do.

Don't give me too much credit, it's not that I figured some big secret out. I just was allowed (through allot of sh*t) to get to a place where I was able to have a little faith.

God began working on me from there, and while that experience helps me to have more faith, I still have a long, long way to go.

[CTM]

That nobody knows the answer(s) and that nobody should act like they do .... cause they don't.

So you're certain about uncertainity.

Can you prove that nobody knows for sure?

[JMJ]

So you're certain about uncertainity.

Can you prove that nobody knows for sure?

The burden of proof in any situation is not on the non-believer, it is on the claimer. If you claim to have seen a purple unicorn, it is not on me to prove you didn't, it is on you to prove you did.

So, until someone can come out and say that they know for sure what the answers to the world, universe, and galxies are, and pack that up by proof, I am safe and just continuing on with my uncertainty.

[THE ILK]

The burden of proof in any situation is not on the non-believer, it is on the claimer. If you claim to have seen a purple unicorn, it is not on me to prove you didn't, it is on you to prove you did.

So, until someone can come out and say that they know for sure what the answers to the world, universe, and galxies are, and pack that up by proof, I am safe and just continuing on with my uncertainty.

JMJ you said you are Agnostic Atheist. Atheist because you don't believe in God or god's, and Agnostic because the reason you don't believe in them is because you do not feel there is sufficient evidence, knowledge, or facts to believe in them. You also said you are uncertain, so you are not ruling out that there maybe a God or gods, just that there is not enough proof of Him or them for you to believe.

I respect that, but I'm not sure why you in your own uncertainty you would call it "imaginary" when someone does feel sufficient evidence, knowledge, facts or faith to believe. Based on your own uncertainty, how can you be certain that what someone else has experienced, and or believes, is a figment of their imagination?

I think that such a statement is contradicting to your own uncertainty, and kind of condescending. Just because there is not enough evidence for you to believe does not mean anyone who does believe is "straight jacket" worthy. I mean you said your "#1 beef with religion is that they try to simplify something that we obviously don't know the answer to," yet you are doing the same thing here.

I don't claim to know more than anybody, I only expressed what it is and why I believe what I believe. I'm not sure how you can simplify that as being my imagination, when you yourself are uncertain. While I have enough reason to have faith in what I believe, I do not expect you or anybody else to understand that, it comes from my own personal experience. At the same time I don't act as if I know why it is anyone else believes what they believe, but I don't write it off as some kind of mental block, when someone believes different than me.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I just want to say, for the sensitivity of this topic, I want to commend the posters in this thread for not taking a stance where this thread would get locked. As you know, religion and politics usually lend itself to some pretty tough war of words.

[Bugg]

There are moral truths and historical substance in many novels.

I'd love to see this historical evidence that Jesus actually existed. The gospels themselves were all written anywhere from 70-150 years after the crucifixion is said to've taken place.

I respect your right to believe in it, and I'm genuinely happy for you if it brings you a sense of peace. But, respectfully, I don't buy it at all.

The 1st century Roman historian Josephus, himself a Jew, discussed Jesus and early Christianity. It got Jewish/Christian relations off to a happy start by alleging Jesus was the bastard son of a Roman soldier. 2 milleniums of pogroms have followed. Good work, there, Joe.

It is accurate that the Gospels were written well after Christ's life rather than contemporaneously to his lifetime.In fact, in many areas they give conflicting accounts of events like the Crucifixion. Also the Gospels at one point describe Jesus' lineage from King David to Joseph, which makes no sense if you believe in a virgin birth.Catholicism insists Jesus was an only child yet numerous times the Gospels speak of brothers and sisters including the Apostle James.

As a Catholic who misses church sometimes(awright, most Sundays), I concede that God's existence for believers requires a leap of faith beyond logic. Something made the Apostles begin their ministry, but grant again that by logic you can point to circumstantial evidence of the divine but nothing concrete.

Faith needs a doubt.

George Carlin's line that God is all seeing, all knowing and all powerful, but so bad with cash that he needs yours remains pretty compelling.

[NIGHT STALKER]

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/noahs-ark-found-insider-randall-price-now-says-discovery-may-be-a-hoax/19459208?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fworld%2Farticle%2Fnoahs-ark-found-insider-randall-price-now-says-discovery-may-be-a-hoax%2F19459208

[Larz]

That is where you get into the debate over how literally we are to take the Bible. Look at the very beginning of Genesis for example:

1) "On the fourth day...." the sun is created. However, how could there have been three "days" without a sun?

2) When God tells Adam & Eve not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he tells them that if they do they will be dead. However, reading this in english is a bad translation. The original Hebrew literally says "you will die so much you will be dead". And no, this is not "spiritual death", a concept not understood 3,000 or so years ago. This is physical death. Yet when they eat the fruit, they don't die.

These "contradictions" are so obvious that there's no way we were meant to read the Bible 100 % LITERALLY. Does this mean that we are not to take moral truths from scripture, AND that there is no historical substance to it? Of course not. Jesus Christ actually did walk the Earth 2,000 years ago, after all, along with Pontius Pilate, Julius Caesar and others, confirmed by sources outside of the Bible.

However, the "contradictions" in scripture ARE a reason that I believe its OK to ask questions about Biblical teachings. One verse in the Gospels says that we're to love God with not only our hearts but our MINDS. If God exists, He didn't give us brains only to just blindly accept things we're taught. That's the biggest mistake that organized religion has made. We should have the opportunity to ask the tough questions and set out to find the answers ourselves, with the help of other curious souls.

To me, the preponderance of the evidence tells me that God exists. And while it takes a greater amount of faith to be a Christian, its the worldview that makes the most sense to me. And to Jewish people who know the story of Noah just as well, if not better, they accept a similar worldview.

IBTL!

Atheists, have at it!

I'm just wondering out loud who would really want to belive the noahs ark story to the point of going to a mountain and carbon dating wood

and I've always separated religion from spirituality

fwiw

[Green DNA]

I Live by the golden rule (treat others the way you would like to be treated)

Who taught you the golden rule?

Why, faba of course. Everyone knows that.

[Green DNA]

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/noahs-ark-found-insider-randall-price-now-says-discovery-may-be-a-hoax/19459208?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fworld%2Farticle%2Fnoahs-ark-found-insider-randall-price-now-says-discovery-may-be-a-hoax%2F19459208

There's a shocker

[JerryK]

I'm just wondering out loud who would really want to belive the noahs ark story to the point of going to a mountain and carbon dating wood

and I've always separated religion from spirituality

fwiw

I think people need to look at these very old books with an understanding of the 'evolution' of human literary style. Many scholars consider the oldest books (Genesis/Exodus) to be more similar to poetry than documentary. This is in line with ancient (and modern) tribal people having an oral history, not written. By telling the stories regularly by the campfire, the history was maintained...but nobody knows how long the stories were being told before someone finally wrote them down, or how much they evolved before they were written down.

I dont' think this invalidates the books at all...or faith. But I think people might want to be careful about treating it as a scientific text, and instead focus on how the book is asking them to live their own lives moving forward.