May 4th: 40-year anniversary of Kent State Shootings

[Jetsfan80]

Tomorrow, May 4th, will make 40 years since the National Guard opened fire on Kent State students, killing 4 and wounding 9 others.

My Dad, a KSU grad student from '68-'70, was present at the time of the shootings. Interestingly, he had been on a committee to decide whether campus police should be allowed to carry firearms on university grounds. Shortly after the shootings, he was selected to speak at various universities in the midwest to explain what had happened. A level-headed, modest man who will never take credit for it, he may have helped prevent a riot on the campus of Iowa State as well as a few other universities he spoke at.

Now, I'm certainly not in complete support of the behavior of the students at Kent State and deluded about their role in the shootings. But certainly we can all agree that the event should never have happened, especially since a few of the victims were simply walking to and from class at the time. Whether the students were to blame or the tired, ornery guards who had days before quelled a riot in Cleveland are to blame, it doesn't really matter.

The site of the shootings has recently been approved as a National Historical Site under protection of the government, and guided tours are available.

[Bruce Banner]

The Kent State shootings led to the little discussed Hard Hat Riot. Moronic Mayor Lindsay, the man who destroyed NYC, ordered the American flag to be flown at half mast on city buildings. Then some hippies burned some American flags in view of the WTC construction site. At which point the huge number of construction workers at the site beat the hippies and marched on City Hall and demanded the flags be raised to normal height. An event interesting enough to deserve more attention than it gets. If Kent State happened 40 years ago then its 4 days to the anniversary of the Hard Hat Riot.

[Thai Jet]

Luckily I was out of the country and missed all the excitement.

[slats]

The Kent State shootings led to the little discussed Hard Hat Riot. Moronic Mayor Lindsay, the man who destroyed NYC, ordered the American flag to be flown at half mast on city buildings. Then some hippies burned some American flags in view of the WTC construction site. At which point the huge number of construction workers at the site beat the hippies and marched on City Hall and demanded the flags be raised to normal height. An event interesting enough to deserve more attention than it gets. If Kent State happened 40 years ago then its 4 days to the anniversary of the Hard Hat Riot.

It gets enough attention, probably a lot more than it deserved at the time. With the gov't doing everything it could to try and supress an already out of control anti-war movement, this story got a ton of national press. They tried to push the story as middle America still be in favor of the war in Viet Nam, but it way way too little, too late at that point.

They're certainly related, though. In one case, war protesters were shot at, in the other, they were just beaten. A show of improved tolerance over just four days!

[Biggs]

Tomorrow, May 4th, will make 40 years since the National Guard opened fire on Kent State students, killing 4 and wounding 9 others.

My Dad, a KSU grad student from '68-'70, was present at the time of the shootings. Interestingly, he had been on a committee to decide whether campus police should be allowed to carry firearms on university grounds. Shortly after the shootings, he was selected to speak at various universities in the midwest to explain what had happened. A level-headed, modest man who will never take credit for it, he may have helped prevent a riot on the campus of Iowa State as well as a few other universities he spoke at.

Now, I'm certainly not in complete support of the behavior of the students at Kent State and deluded about their role in the shootings. But certainly we can all agree that the event should never have happened, especially since a few of the victims were simply walking to and from class at the time. Whether the students were to blame or the tired, ornery guards who had days before quelled a riot in Cleveland are to blame, it doesn't really matter.

The site of the shootings has recently been approved as a National Historical Site under protection of the government, and guided tours are available.

I was very much around at the time. The combination of the Government dragging us into an unnecessary war, lying to the public about it in combination with a draft created a highly flamable situation. The big difference between now and than is the government was smart enough to get rid of the draft.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I was very much around at the time. The combination of the Government dragging us into an unnecessary war, lying to the public about it in combination with a draft created a highly flamable situation. The big difference between now and than is the government was smart enough to get rid of the draft.

You cannot be serious with this post. The big difference now is the government was smart enough to get rid of the draft??? I was drafted...served as an Army Ranger with the 101st A/B and I would do it all over again. You're telling me it's okay to go to war as long as there isn't a draft to funnel the troops...are you one of these guys (and the woods are full of them) it's okay to go to war, just don't send me?

[slats]

I was very much around at the time. The combination of the Government dragging us into an unnecessary war, lying to the public about it in combination with a draft created a highly flamable situation. The big difference between now and than is the government was smart enough to get rid of the draft.

OMG, it wasn't just an unnecessary war, it was an entirely manufactured war. The United States created South Viet Nam. The people of that county wanted to join with Ho Chi Mihn, who was taking land back from the French imperialists, and giving it to the peasant farmers. They were living significantly better under the communists than they ever were under the French, or would have under the US. There was no local support at all for the US, who simply wanted to replace the French there and maintain a foothold in the region.

Plus you had the whole civil rights thing going on, and blacks in this country wanted no part of this "white man's war" against another people of color. Back home, word was starting to trickle back pretty heavily about the atrocities the US forces were engaged in. There was a lot of very justified anger about this war, and unfortunately some of it spilled onto returning soldiers.

One of the big differences now is that the gov't won't allow TV to show returning caskets from Iraq or Afghanistan, and people lose interest. A draft would get people's attention, and probably create more of an anti-war sentiment here again, which -I'm sure- is the primary reason we don't have one. The gov't learned that lesson from Viet Nam, but seems to've missed the one about other countries not being interested in being occupied and controlled by the US.

[Biggs]

You cannot be serious with this post. The big difference now is the government was smart enough to get rid of the draft??? I was drafted...served as an Army Ranger with the 101st A/B and I would do it all over again. You're telling me it's okay to go to war as long as there isn't a draft to funnel the troops...are you one of these guys (and the woods are full of them) it's okay to go to war, just don't send me?

Just the opposite.

I'm one of these guys who doesn't believe a democracy can go to war without the entire country in including a full draft. It's way to easy to send troops to war when the country for the most part isn't suffering for the cause and only a handful who willing put themselves in are. There has to be a shared sacrifice or it's simply to easy politically to go to war.

The VN war we were all in except the government lied about the war and the fact that we had so much at stake on a lie caused it all to unravel politically. Now we have just the opposite situation. Most of the country has so little at stake that politically we can go to war at the drop of a hat.

[Bruce Banner]

You cannot be serious with this post. The big difference now is the government was smart enough to get rid of the draft??? I was drafted...served as an Army Ranger with the 101st A/B and I would do it all over again. You're telling me it's okay to go to war as long as there isn't a draft to funnel the troops...are you one of these guys (and the woods are full of them) it's okay to go to war, just don't send me?

Actually, the second they stopped the draft there was a huge decrease in anti Vietnam War protests by the college kids. The kids weren't so much against the war as being in it.

[Bruce Banner]

OMG, it wasn't just an unnecessary war, it was an entirely manufactured war. The United States created South Viet Nam. The people of that county wanted to join with Ho Chi Mihn, who was taking land back from the French imperialists, and giving it to the peasant farmers. They were living significantly better under the communists than they ever were under the French, or would have under the US. There was no local support at all for the US, who simply wanted to replace the French there and maintain a foothold in the region.

Plus you had the whole civil rights thing going on, and blacks in this country wanted no part of this "white man's war" against another people of color. Back home, word was starting to trickle back pretty heavily about the atrocities the US forces were engaged in. There was a lot of very justified anger about this war, and unfortunately some of it spilled onto returning soldiers.

One of the big differences now is that the gov't won't allow TV to show returning caskets from Iraq or Afghanistan, and people lose interest. A draft would get people's attention, and probably create more of an anti-war sentiment here again, which -I'm sure- is the primary reason we don't have one. The gov't learned that lesson from Viet Nam, but seems to've missed the one about other countries not being interested in being occupied and controlled by the US.

Since there is no free speech in Vietnam the Vietnamese themselves cannot speak as to whether they are better off due to the Communist triumph.

But a parallel situation would be the Korean War. The US achieved the goal of keeping the southern half non communist and the people in the southern half are very happy about this and the people in the northern half wish they lived in the southern half. There is no rational reason to believe that if South Vietnam had remained independent the people there would be any less happy about that outcome than the South Koreans are about remaining independent.

[slats]

Since there is no free speech in Vietnam the Vietnamese themselves cannot speak as to whether they are better off due to the Communist triumph.

But a parallel situation would be the Korean War. The US achieved the goal of keeping the southern half non communist and the people in the southern half are very happy about this and the people in the northern half wish they lived in the southern half. There is no rational reason to believe that if South Vietnam had remained independent the people there would be any less happy about that outcome than the South Koreans are about remaining independent.

Despots come in many different flavors. The problem in N. Korea is Kim Jung Il much more than it is communism.

The Vietnamese people at the time believed in what Ho Chi Mihn was selling. The US created the S. Vietnamese government, and then allowed the leader they installed to be executed. The only freedom the people there were seeking was freedom from imperial rule - which is the opposite of what the US was offering.