Why I'll Take Pedroia on My Team Any Day

[Klecko73isGod]

Cano is a better hitter. Pedroia is a better fielder. Utley is a better hitter and fielder than both of them.

I like Pedroia over Cano because of his attitude but both are terrific.

Utley has more power, but he ain't a better hitter than Cano. Cano's already got three seasons where he's hit over .300 and is working on a fourth. Utley's hit over .300 twice and is currently hitting .256. Cano is a better pure hitter than Utley, Utley's got more power. It's simple math. Utley has 1033 hits in just over 7 seasons, Cano's got 967 in just over 5. Cano's a lifetime .312 hitter, Utley's a .293 hitter. By the end of next season, Cano will have more career hits than Utley despite playing two fewer seasons. He's a much better hitter than Utley.

Utley's better on defense? Maybe in the past and not by much. They both have strikingly similar defensive stats. This season however, Utley's got seven errors in 297 chances, Cano's got one error in 328 chances. Right now, Cano is light years better than Utley in the field.

Oh and Utley is 31 years old while Cano is 27. I'll take Cano over Utley any day of the friggin' week.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Utley has more power, but he ain't a better hitter than Cano. Cano's already got three seasons where he's hit over .300 and is working on a fourth. Utley's hit over .300 twice and is currently hitting .256. Cano is a better pure hitter than Utley, Utley's got more power. It's simple math. Utley has 1033 hits in just over 7 seasons, Cano's got 967 in just over 5. Cano's a lifetime .312 hitter, Utley's a .293 hitter. By the end of next season, Cano will have more career hits than Utley despite playing two fewer seasons. He's a much better hitter than Utley.

Utley's better on defense? Maybe in the past and not by much. They both have strikingly similar defensive stats. This season however, Utley's got seven errors in 297 chances, Cano's got one error in 328 chances. Right now, Cano is light years better than Utley in the field.

Oh and Utley is 31 years old while Cano is 27. I'll take Cano over Utley any day of the friggin' week.

You have to remember, this is a Red Sux fan...if he ain't picking his own guy, he surely isn't picking a Yankee.

[CrazyCarl40]

You have to remember, this is a Red Sux fan...if he ain't picking his own guy, he surely isn't picking a Yankee.

If Cano has finally matured as a person and isn't dogging it and taking plays off (which even as Yankees fans he notorious for doing in his early career), I'd take him on the Sox. He's turning into a great hitter and is significantly benefiting from the guys who hit around him. He'd just have to find a different position. Or move Pedroia to SS, because he has that ability to at least be adequate there.

[Klecko73isGod]

You have to remember, this is a Red Sux fan...if he ain't picking his own guy, he surely isn't picking a Yankee.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument I guess.

[JonEJet]

If Cano has finally matured as a person and isn't dogging it and taking plays off (which even as Yankees fans he notorious for doing in his early career), I'd take him on the Sox. He's turning into a great hitter and is significantly benefiting from the guys who hit around him. He'd just have to find a different position. Or move Pedroia to SS, because he has that ability to at least be adequate there.

Not too worry, he ain't going nowhere

[WWWWombat]

Utley has more power, but he ain't a better hitter than Cano. Cano's already got three seasons where he's hit over .300 and is working on a fourth. Utley's hit over .300 twice and is currently hitting .256. Cano is a better pure hitter than Utley, Utley's got more power. It's simple math. Utley has 1033 hits in just over 7 seasons, Cano's got 967 in just over 5. Cano's a lifetime .312 hitter, Utley's a .293 hitter. By the end of next season, Cano will have more career hits than Utley despite playing two fewer seasons. He's a much better hitter than Utley.

Utley's better on defense? Maybe in the past and not by much. They both have strikingly similar defensive stats. This season however, Utley's got seven errors in 297 chances, Cano's got one error in 328 chances. Right now, Cano is light years better than Utley in the field.

Oh and Utley is 31 years old while Cano is 27. I'll take Cano over Utley any day of the friggin' week.

Neither batting average nor fielding percentage are very good metrics to judge a player's value by. Batting average completely ignores walks and counts a single the same as an extra base hit. The point of hitting is to score runs. Therefore hitters should be valued based on how many runs one would expect to be contributed by their hitting. Every stat I have seen that tries to do this shows Utley as being more valuable in the past. Cano has obviously been more valuable this year by pretty much any metric, but we are only a little over a third of the way through the season. I'm not willing to give Cano the title of best hitting second baseman just because he's been hot for a few months.

Fielding percentage is even worse than batting average. It actually punishes good defensive players. The player like Cano who has no range but makes few errors on balls in his range will score much higher than a more valuable fielder who has more range but commits errors on balls that the first fielder would have let fall for hits. If you factor range into the equation (say by looking at UZR) then Utley is clearly the better fielder. His positioning is superb and therefore he gets to a lot more balls. Also, he doesn't give off the aura of laziness that Cano does. Cano lets a lot of balls through that he should be able to get. That being said, Cano's fielding is much improved so far this year. His UZR is actually similar to Pedroia's whereas last year Pedroia's was much higher. It will be interesting to see how Cano develops. He is very skilled but right now he isn't selective enough at the plate, and doesn't cover enough range in the field. If he took some more pitches and actually hustled, he would be utterly terrifying (not that he isn't very fearsome already).

[JonEJet]

The player like Cano who has no range .

Do you actually watch the game or just talk sh1t about it

[Klecko73isGod]

Neither batting average nor fielding percentage are very good metrics to judge a player's value by. Batting average completely ignores walks and counts a single the same as an extra base hit. The point of hitting is to score runs. Therefore hitters should be valued based on how many runs one would expect to be contributed by their hitting. Every stat I have seen that tries to do this shows Utley as being more valuable in the past. Cano has obviously been more valuable this year by pretty much any metric, but we are only a little over a third of the way through the season. I'm not willing to give Cano the title of best hitting second baseman just because he's been hot for a few months.

Fielding percentage is even worse than batting average. It actually punishes good defensive players. The player like Cano who has no range but makes few errors on balls in his range will score much higher than a more valuable fielder who has more range but commits errors on balls that the first fielder would have let fall for hits. If you factor range into the equation (say by looking at UZR) then Utley is clearly the better fielder. His positioning is superb and therefore he gets to a lot more balls. Also, he doesn't give off the aura of laziness that Cano does. Cano lets a lot of balls through that he should be able to get. That being said, Cano's fielding is much improved so far this year. His UZR is actually similar to Pedroia's whereas last year Pedroia's was much higher. It will be interesting to see how Cano develops. He is very skilled but right now he isn't selective enough at the plate, and doesn't cover enough range in the field. If he took some more pitches and actually hustled, he would be utterly terrifying (not that he isn't very fearsome already).

Whatever. They're only the metrics we've been using to measure players relative value since time immemorial but I guess since they completely disprove your point you need to hunt for statistics to back up your utter BS.

[Klecko73isGod]

Neither batting average nor fielding percentage are very good metrics to judge a player's value by. Batting average completely ignores walks and counts a single the same as an extra base hit. The point of hitting is to score runs. Therefore hitters should be valued based on how many runs one would expect to be contributed by their hitting. Every stat I have seen that tries to do this shows Utley as being more valuable in the past. Cano has obviously been more valuable this year by pretty much any metric, but we are only a little over a third of the way through the season. I'm not willing to give Cano the title of best hitting second baseman just because he's been hot for a few months.

Fielding percentage is even worse than batting average. It actually punishes good defensive players. The player like Cano who has no range but makes few errors on balls in his range will score much higher than a more valuable fielder who has more range but commits errors on balls that the first fielder would have let fall for hits. If you factor range into the equation (say by looking at UZR) then Utley is clearly the better fielder. His positioning is superb and therefore he gets to a lot more balls. Also, he doesn't give off the aura of laziness that Cano does. Cano lets a lot of balls through that he should be able to get. That being said, Cano's fielding is much improved so far this year. His UZR is actually similar to Pedroia's whereas last year Pedroia's was much higher. It will be interesting to see how Cano develops. He is very skilled but right now he isn't selective enough at the plate, and doesn't cover enough range in the field. If he took some more pitches and actually hustled, he would be utterly terrifying (not that he isn't very fearsome already).

Fine, I'll take your ridiculous bait, check out Cano's slugging average compared to Utley. Utley's is higher for his career, based primarily on his better power numbers but this year it's not close, Cano is slugging .613 while Utley's at .460. Cano's currently got a significantly higher OBP, OPS, more RBI, more total bases. He's four years younger and he's only getting better. Utley's on the wrong side of 30 and all of his numbers have been trending in the wrong direction for four years.

Suggesting Cano has "no range" basically proves you to be either out of touch with reality or someone who doesn't watch Yankees games.

If you would honestly take Utley right now over Cano, I'll build a better baseball team than you without thinking about it.

[Morrissey]

If Cano has finally matured as a person and isn't dogging it and taking plays off (which even as Yankees fans he notorious for doing in his early career), I'd take him on the Sox. He's turning into a great hitter and is significantly benefiting from the guys who hit around him. He'd just have to find a different position. Or move Pedroia to SS, because he has that ability to at least be adequate there.

Pedroia and that sh*t arm at SS? LOL

[THE ILK]

Why I'm glad sox fans rather have PEDroia...

Dusty:

AB R H HR RBI BB K AVG

259 38 68 8 31 30 31 .263

Robinson:

AB R H HR RBI BB K AVG

248 50 92 13 47 19 32 .371

Just imagine when he's batting in the top of the lineup!

[CrazyCarl40]

Why I'm glad sox fans rather have PEDroia...

Dusty:

AB R H HR RBI BB K AVG

259 38 68 8 31 30 31 .263

Robinson:

AB R H HR RBI BB K AVG

248 50 92 13 47 19 32 .371

Just imagine when he's batting in the top of the lineup!

I'm going to ignore PEDroia as a typo. And as I've said before, Cano has been better this season. He also benefits from hitting in the Yankee line-up. He doesn't have to be the man on that team and that is suiting him.

Pedroia and that sh*t arm at SS? LOL

He played there all through college and was pretty darn good. He's played there a game or two in the majors, as well. His arm is more than fine.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I'm going to ignore PEDroia as a typo. And as I've said before, Cano has been better this season. He also benefits from hitting in the Yankee line-up. He doesn't have to be the man on that team and that is suiting him.

He played there all through college and was pretty darn good. He's played there a game or two in the majors, as well. His arm is more than fine.

No, CC...you're not a homer. This response by you has "homer" written it all over it.

[CrazyCarl40]

No, CC...you're not a homer. This response by you has "homer" written it all over it.

Hello. My name is Night Stalker and I call names like a 5 year-old when I don't have a legitimate response. Watch me call you names because I am not intelligent enough to keep up with the conversation! Don't act like you're not impressed!

Here is an idea: formulate a reasonable and well thought out response for debate to counteproint what I said. Go ahead a prove what I said to be false. Otherwise, you're just wasting decent oxygen.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Hello. My name is Night Stalker and I call names like a 5 year-old when I don't have a legitimate response. Watch me call you names because I am not intelligent enough to keep up with the conversation! Don't act like you're not impressed!

Here is an idea: formulate a reasonable and well thought out response for debate to counteproint what I said. Go ahead a prove what I said to be false. Otherwise, you're just wasting decent oxygen.

No, I told you what my name was in a PM and you refused to give me yours...tell you what hot shot, and if you answer with your buddy Pedroia, you are a homer in the highest regard. Who has more upside, Cano or Pedroia?

Any fan of another team with the slightest bit of knowledge knows the answer is Cano...what you see in Pedroia is the best he is ever going to be. With Cano, his ceiling hasn't even been touched yet.

Spin it...

[Guido Monzino]

I love this thread. Nothing better than a Sox fan taking the old "Pennington is gritty and has intangibles" argument and applying it to baseball.

That's right, Pedroia = Pennington.

[Thor99]

I love this thread. Nothing better than a Sox fan taking the old "Pennington is gritty and has intangibles" argument and applying it to baseball.

That's right, Pedroia = Pennington.

Who was the original Captain Intangibles?

[Scott Dierking]

Who was the original Captain Intangibles?

Derek Jeter?

[NIGHT STALKER]

Derek Jeter?

His "intangibles" got him.........5 rings.

[Scott Dierking]

His "intangibles" got him.........5 rings.

I was just answering a question.

Either intangibles are part of a player's make-up or not.

Personally, I think they are, but because you can't measure those things, they become easy fodder as a punching bag in a debate.

As well, I believe there are players that "choke".

All the saber guys will try and tell these things don't exist, but they are closet locked anyway.

[Klecko73isGod]

I was just answering a question.

Either intangibles are part of a player's make-up or not.

Personally, I think they are, but because you can't measure those things, they become easy fodder as a punching bag in a debate.

As well, I believe there are players that "choke".

All the saber guys will try and tell these things don't exist, but they are closet locked anyway.

The reason they do is because the word is often incorrectly employed by those who can't make an argument based on measurables as a kind of trump card their opponent can't argue with.

[dbatesman]

Better defense? Besides the GG that Pedroia has and his career .991 fielding percentage, what would make Cano and his no gold glove and his .983 fielding percentage better?

His "intangibles" got him.........5 rings.

I was just answering a question.

Either intangibles are part of a player's make-up or not.

Personally, I think they are, but because you can't measure those things, they become easy fodder as a punching bag in a debate.

As well, I believe there are players that "choke".

All the saber guys will try and tell these things don't exist, but they are closet locked anyway.

Sweet merciful crap. I am now 10% dumber than I was before I read this thread. This is why I stay out of the baseball forum.

[Aten]

Sweet merciful crap. I am now 10% dumber than I was before I read this thread. This is why I stay out of the baseball forum.

I dunno. Baseball has the best nerds, so it does sort of stand to reason that they'd have the dumbest reactionaries.

[JohnnyHector]

I dunno. Baseball has the best nerds, so it does sort of stand to reason that they'd have the dumbest reactionaries.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Sweet merciful crap. I am now 10% dumber than I was before I read this thread. This is why I stay out of the baseball forum.

It's a nice break coming here from the pseudo intellectual football forum and dummy down a bit...

[dbatesman]

It's a nice break coming here from the pseudo intellectual football forum and dummy down a bit...

Putting aside the fact that declaring someone to be thoughtful and reflective is hardly an insult, I have to admit being more irked that you Luddites always include the modifier when you come after me. What do I have to do to be a full-fledged intellectual?

[Aten]

Putting aside the fact that declaring someone to be thoughtful and reflective is hardly an insult, I have to admit being more irked that you Luddites always include the modifier when you come after me. What do I have to do to be a full-fledged intellectual?

Those who can't pseudo...

[Lil Bit Special]

This thread is still going? Really?

[THE ILK]

I'm going to ignore PEDroia as a typo. And as I've said before, Cano has been better this season. He also benefits from hitting in the Yankee line-up. He doesn't have to be the man on that team and that is suiting him.

Right, because if he was batting earlier in the lineup, he would not have more chances to score more and drive in more runs.

Spin much?

[NIGHT STALKER]

Putting aside the fact that declaring someone to be thoughtful and reflective is hardly an insult, I have to admit being more irked that you Luddites always include the modifier when you come after me. What do I have to do to be a full-fledged intellectual?

Ahh, don't sweat it man, you came in here with the insults. It's all good...why are you here posting again?

[PS17]

bump

[Blackout]

to sum this thread up

Jeter > Cano > Pedroia > Night Stalker > Crazy Carl

[CrazyCarl40]

I didn't bump this when Pedroia went 5-5 with 3 HRs the other night, including a game winner. I could have, but didn't. Just sayin'.

[CrazyCarl40]

From rotoworld:

Unable to take regular fielding due to his broken foot, Dustin Pedroia took grounders while on both knees before Wednesday's game.

You can bet that most players wouldn't go to these lengths to keep their arm in shape, but it doesn't really come as a surprise that the hard-working Pedroia did this. "He's a maniac," manager Terry Francona said. "He knows he can't put any weight on that foot or he'll slow himself down. Anybody that's been around him two seconds knows he'll be ready to go when the bell rings. He's pretty unique." Pedroia will be sidelined until after the All-Star break.

Just one more reason....

[Blackout]

would you take Pedroia on your team today?

Cano hits a HR and gets IBB'd.