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Interesting argument on the upcoming season


gangreenman
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So I had dinner with a friend of mine from college... Since we were both Jets fans we eventually got around to talking about the prospects of the upcoming season. He said what many have hinted at "I think we have a great defensive coach and great defensive talent, which alone can win us enough games to be dangerous. However, I dont if Sanchez is good enough of a QB ti win us a Superbowl...Because as good as our D is going to be this year, the way the NFL is today, we are going to have to put up points to win it all. "

I countered and said, yeah he struggled during the season last year, but stepped up and won when he needed to in the postseason. He rebutted that our defense, combined with some luck along the way, is what got us so far.

No, he didn't play bad enough to lose us games, but he also proved vs. the Colts after Greene went down that he was incapable of stepping up and winning a game when he really needed to. We didn't score a single TD in the 2nd half that game.

Of course, both of us hope that Sanchez improves greatly this year...But my friend's argument is a pretty good one. Hopefully our defense is as good as it potentially can be. If it is all Mark would have to do is not lose us games.

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he also proved vs. the Colts after Greene went down that he was incapable of stepping up and winning a game when he really needed to.
No.

- One game doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie against a top 5 QB all time doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie against a top 5 QB in his own house doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie against a top 5 QB in his own house without any RBs doesn't prove anything.

- If that one game presumably does prove something, then what does the Keller pass in SD prove? That was one of the best passes I saw from any QB last year...I was absolutely stunned by the lack of pub that play actually got...in this f'n town of all places.

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I actually agree with your friend's premise.

I don't think Sanchez is good enough yet in his second year to WIN us a SB. I think this team CAN win the Super Bowl, if the defense plays up to the hype it's receiving. This would mean, like you said, just having Sanchez not lose the game.

Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Bob Griese, Brad Johnson have won this way. Just be a good game manager. The talent on this team is that great that the Jets can win if Sanchez manages the game well.

Edited by PS17
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People are talking too much about Sanchez and not enough about Schottenhiemer. Schotty is the number one liability on the team. Let's start some gay rumors about him.

Since the season ended I can't remember hearing Rex say anything good about Schotty. He goes on and on about Callahan. Not a word about Stupidhiemer.

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People are talking too much about Sanchez and not enough about Schottenhiemer. Schotty is the number one liability on the team. Let's start some gay rumors about him.

Since the season ended I can't remember hearing Rex say anything good about Schotty. He goes on and on about Callahan. Not a word about Stupidhiemer.

Schotty doesn't call the right plays. There's a huge liability in that. If you're not calling the right plays then the offense will fail.

Remember in '08 when he called INT after INT? Last year he fell into that too, but luckily we didn't have Mangini there to approve the INT playcalls. Rex came in and changed the whole offense and we started winning. We need Rex to get Rexgressive on Schotty again, because Schotty WILL drag this ship down with poor playcalling.

Edited by SenorGato
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People are talking too much about Sanchez and not enough about Schottenhiemer. Schotty is the number one liability on the team. Let's start some gay rumors about him.

Since the season ended I can't remember hearing Rex say anything good about Schotty. He goes on and on about Callahan. Not a word about Stupidhiemer.

To be fair, Schotty called excellent games since the Colts regular season game last season. I hope this is the Schottenheimer we see this year.

Rex praised BS a lot during the playoff run IIRC.

I have criticized this moron a great deal in the past because he has been more negative than positive, but the final 5 game stretch was really encouraging. I actually think Rex really told him how he wanted the game to be called.

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No.

- One game doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie against a top 5 QB all time doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie against a top 5 QB in his own house doesn't prove anything.

- One game as a rookie against a top 5 QB in his own house without any RBs doesn't prove anything.

- If that one game presumably does prove something, then what does the Keller pass in SD prove? That was one of the best passes I saw from any QB last year...I was absolutely stunned by the lack of pub that play actually got...in this f'n town of all places.

Okay... So when in his rookie YEAR did Sanchez prove he can win a game for us? When has he proven that he is capable of putting up enough points to win even if our running game is stagnant and our defense is off a beat?

He lost at least 3 or 4 games by himself this year... How many did he win?

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Okay... So when in his rookie YEAR did Sanchez prove he can win a game for us? When has he proven that he is capable of putting up enough points to win even if our running game is stagnant and our defense is off a beat?

He lost at least 3 or 4 games by himself this year... How many did he win?

I didn't say he did, nor did I say he has to this coming year. I'm perfectly confident in Sanchez's ability to lead this offense going forward, but I understand that it's fun to talk about because his end of year stats didn't look so good as a rookie.

Why would he have to prove any of that stuff you listed as a rookie? Name one QB who proved anything as a rookie...What did it turn out Matt Ryan proved? What did it turn out Peyton Manning proved as a rookie? He wasn't the efficient monster he'd be...How about Drew Brees?

Sanchez was a starting NFL QB as a rookie...He was and is allowed to look and play like a young player...that includes the bad as well as the good.

Edited by SenorGato
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I didn't say he did, nor did I say he has to this coming year. I'm perfectly confident in Sanchez's ability to lead this offense going forward, but I understand that it's fun to talk about because his end of year stats didn't look so good as a rookie.

Why would he have to prove any of that stuff you listed as a rookie? Name one QB who proved anything as a rookie...

I understand what you're saying... Its the same thing I said. Hopefully Sanchez improves enough not to lose us the 3 or 4 he lost us last year. Id say we added about another win's worth of talent this offseason... So if Sanchez did improve that much, we could be looking at about 13-3 in the regular season....

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sanchez is what, 15 years old ?

he has everything you look for, and was close to making NFL history as the only starting rookie QB to make it to the SB, and that was after starting like 3 games at SC and coming out as a junior

yeah, I guess he should have out dueled manning, we're doomed

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So I had dinner with a friend of mine from college... Since we were both Jets fans we eventually got around to talking about the prospects of the upcoming season. He said what many have hinted at "I think we have a great defensive coach and great defensive talent, which alone can win us enough games to be dangerous. However, I dont if Sanchez is good enough of a QB ti win us a Superbowl...Because as good as our D is going to be this year, the way the NFL is today, we are going to have to put up points to win it all. "

I countered and said, yeah he struggled during the season last year, but stepped up and won when he needed to in the postseason. He rebutted that our defense, combined with some luck along the way, is what got us so far.

No, he didn't play bad enough to lose us games, but he also proved vs. the Colts after Greene went down that he was incapable of stepping up and winning a game when he really needed to. We didn't score a single TD in the 2nd half that game.

Of course, both of us hope that Sanchez improves greatly this year...But my friend's argument is a pretty good one. Hopefully our defense is as good as it potentially can be. If it is all Mark would have to do is not lose us games.

It was a pretty good argument based on a Rookie QB. What he probably didnt mention is how in that same game that Greene went down in it was Sanchez that got us 14 of those 17 points. In his 1st 5 passes he had two TD's, 1 for 80 yards and I believe a 15 yarder to Keller while sitting in the pocket and getting blasted just to make the play. A ROOKIE DID THAT. It surely looked like he stepped up to me. The one who didnt step up was Thomas Jones. Thats why he's gone.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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We dont need Sanchez to win us a Super Bowl. We need him not to screw it up for us.

Hopefully he'll have better offensive weapons this year vs. last year. We should be improved on offense because of his maturation as an NFL QB and the addition of Holmes and others.

Are we good enough to win a Super Bowl? Maybe. I dont think we're a top tier team yet. I wouldnt be surprised if we miss the playoffs this year. I dont think we're as bad or as good as we looked at times last year. I think we're a good 9 or 10 win team that will once again need some breaks and opportunities to compete for the championship.

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We dont need Sanchez to win us a Super Bowl. We need him not to screw it up for us.

Hopefully he'll have better offensive weapons this year vs. last year. We should be improved on offense because of his maturation as an NFL QB and the addition of Holmes and others.

Are we good enough to win a Super Bowl? Maybe. I dont think we're a top tier team yet. I wouldnt be surprised if we miss the playoffs this year. I dont think we're as bad or as good as we looked at times last year. I think we're a good 9 or 10 win team that will once again need some breaks and opportunities to compete for the championship.

I think we're better than that, honestly. Our secondary is better... Our LB's are better, our DL (w Jenkins back) is better, or WR's are better (after wk 4), our RBs will be about a wash (depending on LT and McKnight), our OL should be just as good, and our QB will hopefully be better.

Granted its a tougher schedule this year... But I would be disappointed if the Jets win less than 10 games this year. Unless of course we did so and went on to win the Super Bow. Then Id be happy.

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Maybe Sanchez isn't ready. But the thing we can take solace in is that the Jets front office made all the moves they needed to help Sanchez avoid the dreaded sophomore slump and make the next step in his development a lot easier.

The Jets got him a WR1-caliber weapon (Holmes) who, even for 12 games, will make an enormous impact.

They brought in a pass-catching RB (LT) that Sanchez did not have since Leon got hurt, and will help Sanchez make some easier decisions if nothing is open downfield (dump it off OR throw it away rather than risk a costly INT).

They also improved in pass-blocking (there, I said it) with the addition by subtraction move of dumping Faneca in favor of rookie Vlad Ducasse. It can't possibly get any worse than allowing 7 sacks in a run-happy offense, can it?

There are many fail-safes in place now so that Sanchez can step forward in his development without necessarily taking a step back in productivity, and bringing the team down in the process.

How Schottenheimer coaches Sanchez up will be crucial. We can't necessarily afford to stunt his growth by simplifying the offense like we did down the stretch run last season. It resulted in wins at the time, but opposing defenses figure you out in the long run.

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I think we're better than that, honestly. Our secondary is better... Our LB's are better, our DL (w Jenkins back) is better, or WR's are better (after wk 4), our RBs will be about a wash (depending on LT and McKnight), our OL should be just as good, and our QB will hopefully be better.

Granted its a tougher schedule this year... But I would be disappointed if the Jets win less than 10 games this year. Unless of course we did so and went on to win the Super Bow. Then Id be happy.

Most people think we're better than what I think. I just disagree with them. I saw way too much mediocrity out of this team last year to think that somehow we miraculously became a powerhouse.

But thats why they're opinions. I hope we win 12 games and run away with the division. I hope we make a run at the title. I just dont feel it.

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Most people think we're better than what I think. I just disagree with them. I saw way too much mediocrity out of this team last year to think that somehow we miraculously became a powerhouse.

But thats why they're opinions. I hope we win 12 games and run away with the division. I hope we make a run at the title. I just dont feel it.

I don't think you're giving enough credit for all of the good offseason moves that have been made, nor taking into account that both Sanchez and Rex were rookies last year. Sure they got a break by qualifying for the playoffs, but there was nothing lucky about the way the played the last 3 games of the regular season and the playoffs. They played like a powerhouse.

I'd be interested to hear what you think the weakenesses are that will keep the Jets in mediocrity?

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People are talking too much about Sanchez and not enough about Schottenhiemer. Schotty is the number one liability on the team. Let's start some gay rumors about him.

Since the season ended I can't remember hearing Rex say anything good about Schotty. He goes on and on about Callahan. Not a word about Stupidhiemer.

He raved about him at the time when Schotty decided to stay. Apparently Rex likes the Scott. If he didn't, he would be gone. It's not like Woody or Tanny would block it.

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No, he didn't play bad enough to lose us games, but he also proved vs. the Colts after Greene went down that he was incapable of stepping up and winning a game when he really needed to. We didn't score a single TD in the 2nd half that game.

This part of the argument is flawed. The Jets strength last year was obviously the running game. When Greene went down and Thomas being crap, the Colts D was soley looking to stop the pass. Sanchez threw 2 beautiful TD passes in the 1st half with the running attack being intact. Add in the fact that the Jets did not have a quality 3rd WR last year like they do now, and just what could you expect Sanchez or any QB at that point to do being one domensional? It's like expecting the Colts offense to score a lot of points if Peyton went down.

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It was a pretty good argument based on a Rookie QB. What he probably didnt mention is how in that same game that Greene went down in it was Sanchez that got us 14 of those 17 points. In his 1st 5 passes he had two TD's, 1 for 80 yards and I believe a 15 yarder to Keller while sitting in the pocket and getting blasted just to make the play. A ROOKIE DID THAT. It surely looked like he stepped up to me. The one who didnt step up was Thomas Jones. Thats why he's gone.

He threw a nice ball to Keller and it was on 3rd down, but I don't give him too much credit for a 10 yard TD pass. That TD was completely because of Smith's pass to Cotchery. They laid a goose egg after Greene went down. The bomb to Edwards was off a great play action fake. Take away the threat of the run and they did nothing.

He was a rookie and should be better, both with the experience and the new weapons. Not only did they add Holmes, LT, McKnight and Conners, but having Braylon for the preseason should be a huge help. Sanchez seemed to have a pretty good rapport with Stuckey before the trade. He made some big plays with Edwards, but I never felt they were completely comfortable. That also may be the nature of Edwards.

Most people think we're better than what I think. I just disagree with them. I saw way too much mediocrity out of this team last year to think that somehow we miraculously became a powerhouse.

But thats why they're opinions. I hope we win 12 games and run away with the division. I hope we make a run at the title. I just dont feel it.

I have hope that the D will be a powerhouse. The offense has the tools, but I'm not completely sold. We'll see. They were in almost every game. Cut down on the INTs and they should have a pretty good record.

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I don't think you're giving enough credit for all of the good offseason moves that have been made, nor taking into account that both Sanchez and Rex were rookies last year. Sure they got a break by qualifying for the playoffs, but there was nothing lucky about the way the played the last 3 games of the regular season and the playoffs. They played like a powerhouse.

I'd be interested to hear what you think the weakenesses are that will keep the Jets in mediocrity?

Its just a gut feeling I have about them. They did make some good moves in the offseason, I dont discount that, but just dont feel they are an elite team in the NFL.

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Its just a gut feeling I have about them. They did make some good moves in the offseason, I dont discount that, but just dont feel they are an elite team in the NFL.

I can understand that, you've been following the Jets as long as I have and that's the natural reaction. I haven't felt this good about the Jets since 99 and even more so with the lights out defense. The 98 team was dominant from the start and you expected them to be in the AFC title game. Last years team came out of nowhere, and played with a passion with their backs against the wall like no Jets team I ever remember. That's why I feel real good about this team right now.

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I actually agree with your friend's premise.

I don't think Sanchez is good enough yet in his second year to WIN us a SB. I think this team CAN win the Super Bowl, if the defense plays up to the hype it's receiving. This would mean, like you said, just having Sanchez not lose the game.

Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Bob Griese, Brad Johnson have won this way. Just be a good game manager. The talent on this team is that great that the Jets can win if Sanchez manages the game well.

The truth is none of us has any clue how good or bad Sanchez is going to be this year.

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what i hope will be a thing of the oast is the way sanchez played badly in the beginning of some games. he'd look really bad and then come out in the second half and look much better. i attributed this to being a rookie and it taking him some time to adjust to the speed of the nfl game. practicing against such a good defense has to help

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The good news is that Sanchez showed signs of improvement towards the end of the year. He will still be a sub-par QB in his 2nd year..of that I have no doubt. People forget how awful his TD/int ratio was. That said, I'm not knocking him for the long term, I think he'll be just fine. But this season the running game and defense will have to lift him up again.

Braylon's 2nd year here plus Santonio for 12 games should help out, too. In 3WR sets I could see Cotchery breaking free a lot and fortunately for us Jerricho has magnets for hands. So that should be an interesting dynamic to see, I expect Cotchery may actually end up leading the team in receptions and yards.

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But my friend's argument is a pretty good one. Hopefully our defense is as good as it potentially can be. If it is all Mark would have to do is not lose us games.

the development of Mark Sanchez is the most assumed aspect of this team... the fans talk about WR like Holmes, RB like LT, we all talk about who will play DE or be the place kicker

but all that crap is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic if Mark takes a step back this year.

In general Yes i agree with your friend, the QB is the weak spot and it's not something most want to think about.

Can Mark take that step up and become an elite QB? he could, but there's a far greater chance of a soph slump. Everyone assumes Mark will be great, It's step 1 in building expectations too high, followed up step 2 in getting sad when the expectations aren't realized. SOJ fans... and I include myself and Woody Johnson, Rex Ryan in that statement. Those guys pretend to be above it but they are fans too.

Edited by bitonti
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the development of Mark Sanchez is the most assumed aspect of this team... the fans talk about WR like Holmes, RB like LT, we all talk about who will play DE or be the place kicker

but all that crap is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic if Mark takes a step back this year.

In general Yes i agree with your friend, the QB is the weak spot and it's not something most want to think about.

Can Mark take that step up and become an elite QB? he could, but there's a far greater chance of a soph slump. Everyone assumes Mark will be great, It's step 1 in building expectations too high, followed up step 2 in getting sad when the expectations aren't realized. SOJ fans... and I include myself and Woody Johnson, Rex Ryan in that statement. Those guys pretend to be above it but they are fans too.

So elite or sophomore slump?

Hmm...I think he'll be somewhere in the middle. Easily much improved from last year though.

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He raved about him at the time when Schotty decided to stay. Apparently Rex likes the Scott. If he didn't, he would be gone. It's not like Woody or Tanny would block it.

I don't know if rave is the best word. The way I remember it he said Schotty was crazy for not going after head coaching jobs. It sounded a little suspicious to me.

The rumor is that Schotty's contract runs out at the end of this year. If Rex was in love with him he would have pushed to have Schotty locked up long term.

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