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Vernon Gholston. 6 sacks.


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Thats what I dont think youre understanding. What he did in college is not similar to a 3-4 end at all. In a 3-4 you cant just fly up the field a la Freeney or Jared Allen. Watch Douglas and Ellis, theyre lined up over the tackles, taking them on, holding the point and controling thier gap(s). They arent flying upfield looking for the QB until they read/play run first. Thats not Gholston's game. He's a Freeney, 4-3, fly up field guy, and if Freeney had to play the 5 tech, he'd stink too.

Have you ever seen Gholston play in the NFL? He doesn't fly up the field. He bull rushes everybody. One guy, two guys, it doesn't matter. He runs into them and tries to push them back. He hasn't been dominant, but he doesn't get pushed around either.

Vernon Gholston and Dwight Freeney have very little in common other than huge contracts and being listed at DE.

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Hate to rain on your post, but everybody here already knows you're a douche nozzle. No need to prove it with every keystroke.

Six sacks of white castle.

Your BS is getting old...I can't even post in a thread without you being in it. Do you post on any fins boards, because you really are on here a lot...r u a stay at home mom or somethin

Vernon Gholston recorded 1 sack today, and 2 sacks yesterday. And with that Rex said that he will not praise Vernon Gholston. For the record I remember that there was an OTA that Rex said that if they were in pads Gholston would have had 3 sacks on the day.

Thats a total of 6 sacks in three games ladies and gentlemen. We've shytted on this guy for 2 years and it was valid, he didnt produce. But he's back at his natural position and it seems to be working.

I will be changing my Avatar to this beast of a sack master because this is simply too good to be true. It looks like we got the answer to our DE spot yet had him in the wrong position for 2 years.

Discuss.

It's only OTAs. Chill!

But if VG turns out to be a stud at DE, then we can jump up and down and shout.

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Someone more knowledgeable than me can elaborate on this, but from what I understand the strongside end in Rex's defense is much closer to a traditional 4-3 strongside end than it is to a traditional 3-4 end.

There are alot of different ways to play it, depending on if youre a one gap or two gap team. But if youre a 3-4 team and you dont have a big guy covering the RT, youre in trouble. Say you shade your LDE outside the TE or in the TE-RT gap, youve created great blocking angles for a blockdown and pull by the TE-RT. Or if your end is in a 7 technique, the offense can seal outside with the TE, leaving a RT a free pass to the 2nd level and your LBs, then its Katie bar the door. In a 4-3 you can afford to have your end outside the TE b/c you have two DTs, a 1 and 3 technique. With just a NT in the 3-4, you almost have to cover the Ts, unless its a super obvious pass down.

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Have you ever seen Gholston play in the NFL? He doesn't fly up the field. He bull rushes everybody. One guy, two guys, it doesn't matter. He runs into them and tries to push them back. He hasn't been dominant, but he doesn't get pushed around either.

Vernon Gholston and Dwight Freeney have very little in common other than huge contracts and being listed at DE.

Lol @ bull rushed everybody. Ive saw him get some PT early last year when Pace was out, and yeah, hed looked a little stiff/clumsy. All Im saying is based on what Ive seen, his logical role is as a pass rusher in a 4-3 look. I think asking him to be a two gapper is putting him in a position to fail.

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Someone more knowledgeable than me can elaborate on this, but from what I understand the strongside end in Rex's defense is much closer to a traditional 4-3 strongside end than it is to a traditional 3-4 end.

There's really no need to elaborate. This pretty much nails it. I still don't understand people who base their arguments on the capabilities of our roster in the context of a 3-4 defense. It's simply not what we play and it's that obvious. What we run is just as much a 46 as it is a 3-4, and Pace and Thomas both did a damn good job playing the rush backer last season. Arguing that Gholston isn't/can't be big enough for it is ****ing retarded.

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There's really no need to elaborate. This pretty much nails it. I still don't understand people who base their arguments on the capabilities of our roster in the context of a 3-4 defense. It's simply not what we play and it's that obvious. What we run is just as much a 46 as it is a 3-4, and Pace and Thomas both did a damn good job playing the rush backer last season. Arguing that Gholston isn't/can't be big enough for it is ****ing retarded.

So is rooting for the Phins. :)

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Say you shade your LDE outside the TE or in the TE-RT gap, youve created great blocking angles for a blockdown and pull by the TE-RT.

That's the point of the position though. His job as the two-way end in Rex's hybrid is to take on those two blockers specifically when he's on the strong side. It's exactly what Trevor Pryce has been doing for years.

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There are alot of different ways to play it, depending on if youre a one gap or two gap team. But if youre a 3-4 team and you dont have a big guy covering the RT, youre in trouble. Say you shade your LDE outside the TE or in the TE-RT gap, youve created great blocking angles for a blockdown and pull by the TE-RT. Or if your end is in a 7 technique, the offense can seal outside with the TE, leaving a RT a free pass to the 2nd level and your LBs, then its Katie bar the door. In a 4-3 you can afford to have your end outside the TE b/c you have two DTs, a 1 and 3 technique. With just a NT in the 3-4, you almost have to cover the Ts, unless its a super obvious pass down.

Shaun Ellis is our LDE btw and he's only 285 and he's handled RT's his whole career. If Gholston is our RDE he'll be lined up against the smaller, more athletic LT's. He even played some DT and NT last year and held his own as well. About the only thing Gholston does well is occupy blockers so if this is what they're asking him to do, he'll be fine.

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There's really no need to elaborate. This pretty much nails it. I still don't understand people who base their arguments on the capabilities of our roster in the context of a 3-4 defense. It's simply not what we play and it's that obvious. What we run is just as much a 46 as it is a 3-4, and Pace and Thomas both did a damn good job playing the rush backer last season. Arguing that Gholston isn't/can't be big enough for it is ****ing retarded.

Not sure where youre going with this one. In a hybrid 46 look:

46_p1f95y_xrl1s5in.jpg

In this look, Ellis is heads up (perhaps inside) on the RG, and the DL has covered all three of our interior lineman to discourage any inside run.

As you can see, theres no ont protecting Bart Scott from Vernon Carey, this is not a look you will see often, especially in a short yardage situation.

Or a true 46:

46__9ohij_ge1pq1ls.jpg

Here there are 2 DEs and 2 DTs, 2 ILBS, 2OLBs, 2 S and one corner, in response to a heavy set 2RB 2 TE 1 WR formation from the offense. But in either case, the LDE is either over the G or the T, with gap responsibilities against them and thats just not Gholston's game. And its not just his size, in fact size pales in importance to the technique involved. Handfighting and position, leverage, play recognition, gap responsibility, all of it is totally different from what you'd experience as a 7 technique or a an OLB.

Edited by GMJohnson
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it should be noted that gholston started 4 games last year... the Jets went 3-1 and the 1 loss was to the Saints in their house... still that 24 points... 2 were INT TD... so really the Jets D did the best job against NO all year... Gholston was a part of that...

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You have no idea where I'm getting this from, so you post pictures of the team running the hybrid to prove my point that we run a hybrid?

Regardless, wrong game to post pictures from. Might want to use those magical fingers and find some overhead shots from the Tennessee game where he actually did a reasonably good job at about 15-20 pounds a lighter weight than he'd be playing at this season at the two-way spot if it even happens. And as much as he's sucked since being drafted, leverage is the one thing he's never had a problem getting on defenders.

Edited by RutgersJetFan
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It's only OTAs. Chill!

But if VG turns out to be a stud at DE, then we can jump up and down and shout.

Chill for what? I cant be happy that he's producing in practice? If you cant do in practice you certainly wont to it in a game. Im just stating the obvious.

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NO. Not unless youre playing a 4-3 defense. A 3-4 END needs to be closer in size to a DT than an OLB. Asking a 260 lb man to hold the point of attack against 315-330 lb OTs is tantamount to suicide. I can hope your coaches are that foolish. But I know better.

No I dont think that, Im wondering why you would even try to say that I do.

:box:

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Not sure where youre going with this one. In a hybrid 46 look:

In this look, Ellis is heads up (perhaps inside) on the RG, and the DL has covered all three of our interior lineman to discourage any inside run.

As you can see, theres no ont protecting Bart Scott from Vernon Carey, this is not a look you will see often, especially in a short yardage situation.

Or a true 46:

Here there are 2 DEs and 2 DTs, 2 ILBS, 2OLBs, 2 S and one corner, in response to a heavy set 2RB 2 TE 1 WR formation from the offense. But in either case, the LDE is either over the G or the T, with gap responsibilities against them and thats just not Gholston's game. And its not just his size, in fact size pales in importance to the technique involved. Handfighting and position, leverage, play recognition, gap responsibility, all of it is totally different from what you'd experience as a 7 technique or a an OLB.

Question, how do you "know" that this isnt Gholstons game? Arguing that Vernon Gholston cannot play in our style of defense is a reach. The first thing Rex has understood which has made him an awesome defensive mind is this,.."You dont fit the players to the system, you fit the system to the players". With that said, both situations you presented may be a formation that Miami may be in with either 1 yard for a 1st or a 3rd and short situation. That wouldnt be the case in situations on 1st & 10 or 2nd/3rd and long.

In otherwords, Maybe in a situation where you expect a particular offensive formation (1 WR formation) Gholston would be rotated. What you're presenting is purely one sided, There are teams in the League that are not even built to run such an offense which you've presented. And again, this isnt to say that Gholston "cant" play the position, I just wanted to point out that your quote was purely opinion and is not based on anything substantial

Gholston is gauranteed to see more 1st & 10 situations than 2nd or 3rd and short, with that said, I can see him having more of an opportunity to be on the field with the offense in 2 or 3 WR set.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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Question, how do you "know" that this isnt Gholstons game? Arguing that Vernon Gholston cannot play in our style of defense is a reach. The first thing Rex has understood which has made him an awesome defensive mind is this,.."You dont fit the players to the system, you fit the system to the players". With that said, both situations you presented may be a formation that Miami may be in with either 1 yard for a 1st or a 3rd and short situation. That wouldnt be the case in situations on 1st & 10 or 2nd/3rd and long.

In otherwords, Maybe in a situation where you expect a particular offensive formation (1 WR formation) Gholston would be rotated. What you're presenting is purely one sided, There are teams in the League that are not even built to run such an offense which you've presented. And again, this isnt to say that Gholston "cant" play the position, I just wanted to point out that your quote was purely opinion and is not based on anything substantial

Gholston is gauranteed to see more 1st & 10 situations than 2nd or 3rd and short, with that said, I can see him having more of an opportunity to be on the field with the offense in 2 or 3 WR set.

C'mon man. It goes without saying that Im just giving an opinion. And my opinion is that Gholston doesnt have hardly a prayer of doing the job that Shaun Ellis does, or Kendal Langford, or Rich Seymour. In a 4-3 he can bring it off the edge a la Cam Wake, but Vernon Carey, Sebas Vollmer, Jared Gaither etc, those guys would destroy him. Just my opinion of course.

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You have no idea where I'm getting this from, so you post pictures of the team running the hybrid to prove my point that we run a hybrid?

Regardless, wrong game to post pictures from. Might want to use those magical fingers and find some overhead shots from the Tennessee game where he actually did a reasonably good job at about 15-20 pounds a lighter weight than he'd be playing at this season at the two-way spot if it even happens. And as much as he's sucked since being drafted, leverage is the one thing he's never had a problem getting on defenders.

Did a pretty good job of what? He wasnt in a 5 technique. He's never played a 5 in the NFL, I doubt he's ever played a five in his life. Devito is your best bet IMO. Maybe Pouha. But if Gholston is at LE come the regular season you guys will have a serious problem.

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C'mon man. It goes without saying that Im just giving an opinion. And my opinion is that Gholston doesnt have hardly a prayer of doing the job that Shaun Ellis does, or Kendal Langford, or Rich Seymour. In a 4-3 he can bring it off the edge a la Cam Wake, but Vernon Carey, Sebas Vollmer, Jared Gaither etc, those guys would destroy him. Just my opinion of course.

We all give opinions on this forum, thats a given. However, your opinion in your last quote had a very limited view point. I love that you have an opinion, what im saying is how could you judge his potential/ability based on something that was obviously geared to discredit his potential/ability in the first place? Your premise then is that he basically has no place on the football field....thats just plain ridiculous.

I think Gholston is not only going to prove you wrong, but alot of Jet fans as well, because in all fairness, he didnt pick the Jets and then decide to be a LB for 2 years, that was the Jets doing. All I know is that he recorded 6 sacks in 3 games of practice in a defense that in your opinion he should be shyte in. As my boy Rex would say "lets see what happens".

And lastly, Cam Wake is 6'3 250lbs speed rusher, Gholston is 6'3 270lbs (and counting), is probably the strongest player on the team and has speed if need be. I doubt Wake is the fins strongest player.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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