WIZARD OF OZ Mafia Game Thread

[slats]

FOS all the people that find nothing wrong with Lily's play thus far... I'm not saying she's definitely scum but to not see anything odd at all? bs.

Nothing wrong? I agree with a lot of Dan's points on Lily - in that I think she's one of those players that's always going to ping my radar. DPR falls under that category, too. I'm holding back on both of them because I want something more than just "feeling."

I can't get too critical of townies holding back, either, because I'm feeling a little gunshy myself after coming after SMC last game. I had blinders on for him, and missed two others as a result. So I'm trying to sit back and let things marinate a little bit, too.

Hopefully it's quiet at work today, and I'll have a chance to go back and do some reading.

Actually all in all, we lost two townies, but we could have expected that much with night coming we would be in D2 down another townie, so we are back on even footing.

We lost a bomb early on, as meaning as we had to lose a role we lost the best possible role. The bomb can really hurt the town later on in the games.

The only major set-back is the loss of Wombat.

That's pretty much my take. No NK's - check. Scum is probably frustrated. Good. Down two townies to start D2? That's about where you generally expect to be.

I liked having Wombat in the game, though, and still think it sucks to lose him like that - especially being that he had a role. But I'm not gonna harp on it.

[JustInFudge]

Just got caught up, sorry fellas should have told you but I was out all day yesterday at a Golf Charity Tournament for my niece in Orlando. It went well, we raised 7,000 dollars for her program (some of you may remember my niece was paralyzed in a car accident about 3 years ago) and it was all around fun day.

Anywho, interesting turn of events. Wont lie, when I was reading through and I saw the bomb claim, I thought we had scum. Didnt see a bomb in this game, but clearly monkey brains wasnt lying. Still dont get his play and dont understand why Wombat would take the chance and hammer him (I know he didnt, but I figured SMC would just take the vote before I28's self hammer). No NK is interesting. Dont know what to make of it. But as others have pointed it out, its essentially the same thing losing Wombat.

Now it looks like Lily vs. DRP. Though I see the case against DPR, I'm not sure I'm buying it completely. Lily is tough for me because I hear those saying its not about her personality, but I cant get my mind off thats exactly what it is. IDK. DPR strikes me as someone who was just ready to lynch after a slow day 1. Cant blame him, because I'm the same way, but also dont want to discount some of the cases laid out.

I'm going to look back at the posts around when I28 started to play really bad and see if there were any reactions that should be looked into further. Because I'm not liking the 2 trains quite honestly, neither of them are really striking me as scummy.

[slats]

Remember this post, 'cause that's DPR's M.O. when scum.

Actually, I quite agree with him there. You ARE playing very differently from any other game you've played (with me anyways), and you are so not suspicious to me that in itself it makes me very suspicious.

However, I do agree with your case on DPR, and was planning to go through making my own case on him, myself.

Vote: DPR

DPR, I forgot to vote.

And the no nk thing is probably the result of an action to end night early and thus nullifying all NA

As much as I'm fighting against meta-gaming DPR, I definitely find it interesting that a good portion of the DM crew finds him scummy, too.

Do you all also always find DPR scummy-ish?

[CTM]

Now it looks like Lily vs. DRP. Though I see the case against DPR, I'm not sure I'm buying it completely. Lily is tough for me because I hear those saying its not about her personality, but I cant get my mind off thats exactly what it is. IDK. DPR strikes me as someone who was just ready to lynch after a slow day 1. Cant blame him, because I'm the same way, but also dont want to discount some of the cases laid out.

fu jiffy lube.. it's early on day 2 half the game hasn't posted yet and you're trying to narrow down our choices to 2 votes already? Go scratch crushers big ass..

Imo, the lack of a NK is no good, it could mean they found the wwow already which would suck..

I want to look at integrity train some more, when I thought he was scum I felt really bad about pac and vic with their lily votes, but now I have a enw reason to look at them, or atleast pac, he's never shy to vote and I can't believe he didn't pull the plug on i20 ape's life support. Maybe he knew he was innocent, or atleast had reason to by his bomb claim knowing he wasn't scum.. same goes for DPR..

For now, I'm going to vote Jif just so we have more choices, + the third voter thing + the post above which is awfully conveniant if lily and dpr are innocent..

[SMC]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT--DAY 2

DPR (3) -- Barm, Runin, Sharrow

Smash (1) -- JVOR

Lily (1) -- Pac

Nae (1) -- Dan

JiF (1) -- CTM

With 18 Ozites in the Castle, it takes 10 to lynch.

[CTM]

As much as I'm fighting against meta-gaming DPR, I definitely find it interesting that a good portion of the DM crew finds him scummy, too.

Do you all also always find DPR scummy-ish?

They always seem to find each other scummy, this same point has been made before, against verbal i think.. DM must be the type of place that you can't leave valuables laying around..

[DPR]

I saw that... a few things could have happened but I didn't see a benefit to discussing what those might be.

I wouldn't think we're playing another game where scum have to "earn" their kill though.

You mean shouldn't right? Because you and others have successfully crippled towns with outlandish theories. I was trying to do my part to stop that from happening.

yes at first glance I missed the word "don't"... why the slight of hand though? Instead of acknowledging my point you opted to play grammar police.

Why are you accusing me of "slight of hand"?

You posted, above, that you did notice that there was no nightkill (as did everyone) but that you didn't see a benefit to discussing it.

Then you go on to discuss it, by saying you doubt that the scum have to earn their nightkill.

Being confused about the pupose of saying any of that at all, I posted "Why post this?"

I wasn't leading you, or trying to frame you. I could have posted:

1. We all noticed that there was no NK. You putting it into words raises flags with me because it is redundant, which is sometimes a tell for somone that is trying to sound innocent.

2.Then you say that you don't see a benefit to discussing it. Why?

I can see the logic of not discussing the game setup on D1 - you don't want the town to slip and give the mafia any info.

But why not discuss thta there was no NK? The mafia already know exactly why, so the town won't gve them any info. And, the speculation might well lead to combination of ideas, or cause a mafia to slip up.

IMO, speculation about the lack of an NK can be good.

3. Even after you just said you didn't think we should discuss it, you throw in a little discussion about how you doubt the scum have to earn their NK.

So you are encouraging people not to discuss it, but you wanted to make sure that no one though that the scum would have to earn their NK?

The entire post was either redundant, or contradictory. So I asked why you posted it.

You reply with a remark about how myslef and others have crippled the town with outlandsih theories - okay, but that's not happening in this game, is it?

Then you accuse me of slight of hand because I said what I meant.

So, at this point, I have to ask what you think of the points I've just made, and ask why you did that. No slight of hand - just straight forward questions.

[Naeann]

I've only played the Star Wars game with DPR ... how was he during the Lost game? All I've seen was his destruction of Doggin, followed by his own brilliant crashing and burning. I've also been heh-ed at by him quite a bit, so I don't want that coloring my perspective.

The quiet folk give us so little to work with, I think it's really important to stay vigilant. I have my eye on some people. For right now, though, I'll vote Naeann. Very chatty early on, quieted down as the real discussions started, then popped in as soon as I28 was lynched to make a few jokes.

1. What Barm said. I did say I'm rather busy.

2. I don't know what your vendetta against me is but this is the second game you've been doggedly after me. What is it about me, out of all the less active people, that people keep latching onto? You flat out claimed more than once over several posts how suspicious of LIly you are and then plop your vote back on me just cause I left my house to go to work and therefore wasn't here during the lynch. I wouldn't have voted him anyways. I made it quite clear I didn't think he was scum and quite clear why I was keeping my vote on Lily.

Can't quite get the hang of having to announce every time I leave my house. Just so you know.. its 9:20 in the morning now... I have a horrible sinus headache so after this post I'm likely going back to bed.

[DPR]

They always seem to find each other scummy, this same point has been made before, against verbal i think.. DM must be the type of place that you can't leave valuables laying around..

Nah, we've all just zinged each other over the years, and it's too easy to metagame when you know what a player is capable of.

I could go on and on about the games I've seen Barm, Verbal, and Runin

pull really great mafia plays, but sooner or later, everyone has a great game, and dragging a rep around is more of a curse than anything.

On DM, we call it Big Game Hunting when a player goes after another well known player, just to take them down.

Runin has had me on his list for a while, so I kinda blew hiscase against me off as him just coming after me. Though, if anyone sees merit in it, I'm happy to discuss it.

Anyway, since DM is always crashed now, I imagine they'll all come over to JN for teh mafia goodness. Then this place will be a real freakshow. heh

[Vicious89x]

Hey all FYI it's my beautiful wifes bday weekend. I will be very limited this week. I have to agree with Dan that our inactives have hurts ambit. Id like to hear more from smash so

Vote:smash

[Pac]

I want to look at integrity train some more, when I thought he was scum I felt really bad about pac and vic with their lily votes, but now I have a enw reason to look at them, or atleast pac, he's never shy to vote and I can't believe he didn't pull the plug on i20 ape's life support. Maybe he knew he was innocent, or atleast had reason to by his bomb claim knowing he wasn't scum.. same goes for DPR..

Blow it out your ass you hippie. I didn't want to pull the trigger on the chimp because I thought his case was mostly smoke and mirrors. You constantly whine about people taking the easy lynch which I agree with. I re-read the entire case and didn't like it... no ulterior motives or fancy game play.. just didn't didn't like it.

[Pac]

Why are you accusing me of "slight of hand"?

You posted, above, that you did notice that there was no nightkill (as did everyone) but that you didn't see a benefit to discussing it.

Then you go on to discuss it, by saying you doubt that the scum have to earn their nightkill.

Being confused about the pupose of saying any of that at all, I posted "Why post this?"

I wasn't leading you, or trying to frame you. I could have posted:

1. We all noticed that there was no NK. You putting it into words raises flags with me because it is redundant, which is sometimes a tell for somone that is trying to sound innocent.

2.Then you say that you don't see a benefit to discussing it. Why?

I can see the logic of not discussing the game setup on D1 - you don't want the town to slip and give the mafia any info.

But why not discuss thta there was no NK? The mafia already know exactly why, so the town won't gve them any info. And, the speculation might well lead to combination of ideas, or cause a mafia to slip up.

IMO, speculation about the lack of an NK can be good.

3. Even after you just said you didn't think we should discuss it, you throw in a little discussion about how you doubt the scum have to earn their NK.

So you are encouraging people not to discuss it, but you wanted to make sure that no one though that the scum would have to earn their NK?

The entire post was either redundant, or contradictory. So I asked why you posted it.

You reply with a remark about how myslef and others have crippled the town with outlandsih theories - okay, but that's not happening in this game, is it?

Then you accuse me of slight of hand because I said what I meant.

So, at this point, I have to ask what you think of the points I've just made, and ask why you did that. No slight of hand - just straight forward questions.

What is this gobbledygook? Does this nonsense usually fluster your competition?

There could have been a role block, doc protect, 1 time vest, etc. I fail to see the reason to try and narrow down those choices for scum. Let them try and guess what happened.

[slats]

Blow it out your ass you hippie. I didn't want to pull the trigger on the chimp because I thought his case was mostly smoke and mirrors. You constantly whine about people taking the easy lynch which I agree with. I re-read the entire case and didn't like it... no ulterior motives or fancy game play.. just didn't didn't like it.

Yeah?

I don't know. I feel very little guilt about being on that train when the monkey himself told us that he was purposely trying to look scummy in hopes of getting scum to hammer him.

Meanwhile you continue to feel strongly about Lily, who I tend to think falls under that "low-hanging fruit," category. Not saying she's innocent, either, just saying that's an easy place to place a vote.

[Bleedin Green]

Blow it out your ass you hippie. I didn't want to pull the trigger on the chimp because I thought his case was mostly smoke and mirrors. You constantly whine about people taking the easy lynch which I agree with. I re-read the entire case and didn't like it... no ulterior motives or fancy game play.. just didn't didn't like it.

Hey, there he is! I was about to ask what happened to the crap-talking Pac we all know and... well, know.

[CTM]

Blow it out your ass you hippie. I didn't want to pull the trigger on the chimp because I thought his case was mostly smoke and mirrors. You constantly whine about people taking the easy lynch which I agree with. I re-read the entire case and didn't like it... no ulterior motives or fancy game play.. just didn't didn't like it.

The play was smart, which of course is un pac like and 100% my point. Innocent pac drops the hammer on that idiot chimp without much reservation. Particularly on day 1.

[CTM]

Yeah?

I don't know. I feel very little guilt about being on that train when the monkey himself told us that he was purposely trying to look scummy in hopes of getting scum to hammer him.

Meanwhile you continue to feel strongly about Lily, who I tend to think falls under that "low-hanging fruit," category. Not saying she's innocent, either, just saying that's an easy place to place a vote.

this too..

[Bleedin Green]

Regarding our top suspects, Lilly I haven't found overly scummy, but I know part of that is there are certain things I kind of have just learned to disregard as scum reads with her due to past games, which could very well be to my own detriment.

DPR, I can see the case being made on him, but I'm not sold just yet. Reason being is having seen him as both town and scum, I'm not convinced it's clear cut at this point. While he gets accused of some town leading and I think it's true, that doesn't necessarily mean he's scum, as I see his play to be a lot like the CTM of old. I think I still need to get a better feel for him in this game. The only other thing on him is I know he's getting crap for his whole not believing I28 but not wanting to hammer him thing, but I honestly have no issue with that. I know I thought his reveal sounded sketchy, but I was in no rush to be the one to test it either on the chance I was wrong. Don't get me wrong, DPR definitely bares watching, but I'm in rush to lynch him just yet. That could always change though.

[JustInFudge]

fu jiffy lube.. it's early on day 2 half the game hasn't posted yet and you're trying to narrow down our choices to 2 votes already? Go scratch crushers big ass..

Imo, the lack of a NK is no good, it could mean they found the wwow already which would suck..

I want to look at integrity train some more, when I thought he was scum I felt really bad about pac and vic with their lily votes, but now I have a enw reason to look at them, or atleast pac, he's never shy to vote and I can't believe he didn't pull the plug on i20 ape's life support. Maybe he knew he was innocent, or atleast had reason to by his bomb claim knowing he wasn't scum.. same goes for DPR..

For now, I'm going to vote Jif just so we have more choices, + the third voter thing + the post above which is awfully conveniant if lily and dpr are innocent..

Yeah?

I don't know. I feel very little guilt about being on that train when the monkey himself told us that he was purposely trying to look scummy in hopes of getting scum to hammer him.

Meanwhile you continue to feel strongly about Lily, who I tend to think falls under that "low-hanging fruit," category. Not saying she's innocent, either, just saying that's an easy place to place a vote.

After going back and rereading...nobody stood out to me as being too oportunistic. Monkey brains just made a really stupid play, plus his reactions seemd to be the overall opinion and it was the same I had as well. So...I didnt really get anything out of it.

Pac stood out to me the most for the reason you guys mentioned. He's all about dropping hammer's especailly on D1. I do think we have a distancing case on our hands. Pac is not that type of player. I could see him arguing in the QT w/ scummates about dropping the hammer and them all yelling at to not. I'm going to Vote Pac just because I think he needs some pressure after seeing that...however, I'm about to quote a post that is really interesting and I'd like to get some thoughts.

[Pac]

Hey, there he is! I was about to ask what happened to the crap-talking Pac we all know and... well, know.

Earlier in the week I was obsessed with getting rid of the viruses that riddled my PC. After 3 days of trying things a program called ComboFix seems to have cleared everything. Running better than it has in years. So... now I can concentrate on the game.

[Pac]

The play was smart, which of course is un pac like and 100% my point. Innocent pac drops the hammer on that idiot chimp without much reservation. Particularly on day 1.

Bullcrap Gypsy.

There have been plenty games where I refuse to drop the hammer on someone I believe to be innocent. I know it and you know it. The fact that you're saying different is starting to make me wonder about you.

[Bleedin Green]

Looking back, the thing I find interesting is those who are laying suspiciously low. At least for those who that is out of character. I was definitely feeling that way about Pac, but he seems to be more himself the past day or so, and had reasons for change in activity. Vic is another one who seems to be uncharacteristically quiet to me. I was surprised to see his post count was as high as it was, because I just had a sense like he was around a lot less than usual. Looking back, I just don't think he's really stood out and been as bold as he typically is. While it could very well be the humbling experience of being labeled a superstar and then subsequently falling (been there), he just doesn't seem to have his normal edge or confidence or... something.

Dan also worries me a bit, because I feel like she's doing a lot of her justifying when she's not around. While she does it most every game to an extent, it feels like its a bit more often this time around. Not that I'm one to judge activity level, but I feel like she seems more likely to deflect that kind of attention early before it comes up as scum. Not a whole lot there, but something about it makes me feel more like the Star Wars game when she was scum, although I may have somewhat of a skewed perspective having modded that as opposed to playing.

[Dan.]

1. What Barm said. I did say I'm rather busy.

2. I don't know what your vendetta against me is but this is the second game you've been doggedly after me. What is it about me, out of all the less active people, that people keep latching onto? You flat out claimed more than once over several posts how suspicious of LIly you are and then plop your vote back on me just cause I left my house to go to work and therefore wasn't here during the lynch. I wouldn't have voted him anyways. I made it quite clear I didn't think he was scum and quite clear why I was keeping my vote on Lily.

Can't quite get the hang of having to announce every time I leave my house. Just so you know.. its 9:20 in the morning now... I have a horrible sinus headache so after this post I'm likely going back to bed.

Hehe, I think "vendetta" is quite a strong word. If I was "doggedly" after you last game, which I think is another exaggeration, you did turn out to be scum after all. The main reason for my interest in you is that when you're here and staying on-task, you make good and logical points. You're simply the type of player I would have liked to have heard from after I28's reveal yesterday, but you only appeared right after his lynch to crack a couple jokes. I'm not at all claiming there's a brilliant case on you because that's far from the truth; I'm trying to get more information on the quieter ones I don't have a great feel for.

[JustInFudge]

unvote and vote Jif The way this read, and with things I've read and information on this game, it sounds like you are scummy.

This really confused me at first. I had no clue why he thought I was being scummy based off what I said considering all I did was paraphrase SMC and incoroporated some of my own verbage for flavor.

He took it serious and I wondered why? Then a couple of pages later he posts ths...

aren't all actions done by a person in a mafia game suspicous. If I wouldn't have posted last night I would have been a mafia lurker this morning.

Anyways I read my pm from the mod and compared it to jif's game set up. Sure it was primarily a rehashment of the op but it seemed off from my pm. If anything I figured the mod probably didn't use a standard pm for everyone, or it was a tiny slip up, either wayi was going to look at jif closer.

Then he posts saying he would be ok to lynch anyone who is currently voting him. Which read like it was a joke, but if not it was an overglorified omgus.

About the part of mafia voting for someone and it is a pretty safe call. Yeah it is especially on d1 when the mafia try and havetheir votes spread out and sometimes mafia members even vote themselves.

All that was from my phone so don't expect anothe reply until later in the evening.

The bold above explained further what he meant. So it made makes me wonder, what did Runin get in his PM that we didnt? Now this could obviously go a bunch of different directions and its why I'm not voting him right now, but did maybe scum get a different PM then the rest in terms of verbage and something I said threw him off? Or maybe the WWOW or the Wizard got PM's w/ different verbage? Now after we saw 2 roles die, maybe he something different protown...who knows? Either way, I find it interesting and wondered if anyone else picked up on or if Runin would like to clarify.

[Pac]

Yeah?

I don't know. I feel very little guilt about being on that train when the monkey himself told us that he was purposely trying to look scummy in hopes of getting scum to hammer him.

Meanwhile you continue to feel strongly about Lily, who I tend to think falls under that "low-hanging fruit," category. Not saying she's innocent, either, just saying that's an easy place to place a vote.

You know another easy place to drop a vote? Me.

Nice time for you to show up though while this is going on... I don't remember you making any definitive posts the entire game. It would be a mistake to let you sneak around in the shadows.

[Pac]

Pac stood out to me the most for the reason you guys mentioned. He's all about dropping hammer's especailly on D1. I do think we have a distancing case on our hands. Pac is not that type of player. I could see him arguing in the QT w/ scummates about dropping the hammer and them all yelling at to not. I'm going to Vote Pac just because I think he needs some pressure after seeing that...however, I'm about to quote a post that is really interesting and I'd like to get some thoughts.

"All about dropping Hammers"? Where do you clowns get this stuff?

Your vote is welcome though because everyone knows you've made being wrong in these games an art form.

I've seen enough of you jokers for awhile... off to golf then to see the lady friend. Not sure how active I'll be today.

[JustInFudge]

"All about dropping Hammers"? Where do you clowns get this stuff?

Your vote is welcome though because everyone knows you've made being wrong in these games an art form.

I've seen enough of you jokers for awhile... off to golf then to see the lady friend. Not sure how active I'll be today.

I've made an art of something? Thanks!

[DPR]

You know another easy place to drop a vote? Me.

Nice time for you to show up though while this is going on... I don't remember you making any definitive posts the entire game. It would be a mistake to let you sneak around in the shadows.

This just struck me as odd - Slats doesn't really sneak around in the shadows (at least not in my experience) and although he did not clog the game up with spam and jokes, I don't find him to be underposting.

I'm not saying I have a read on way or the other on Slats, but I'm finding it strange the Pac keeps going after people that question him.

Could just be me, but that's the first thought I had while I read it the post.

[slats]

You know another easy place to drop a vote? Me.

Nice time for you to show up though while this is going on... I don't remember you making any definitive posts the entire game. It would be a mistake to let you sneak around in the shadows.

What exactly is going on? You getting a little bit of attention and overreacting to it?

vote: Pac

You're right about one thing, this is an easy place to drop a vote.

[Dan.]

Looking back, the thing I find interesting is those who are laying suspiciously low. At least for those who that is out of character. I was definitely feeling that way about Pac, but he seems to be more himself the past day or so, and had reasons for change in activity. Vic is another one who seems to be uncharacteristically quiet to me. I was surprised to see his post count was as high as it was, because I just had a sense like he was around a lot less than usual. Looking back, I just don't think he's really stood out and been as bold as he typically is. While it could very well be the humbling experience of being labeled a superstar and then subsequently falling (been there), he just doesn't seem to have his normal edge or confidence or... something.

Dan also worries me a bit, because I feel like she's doing a lot of her justifying when she's not around. While she does it most every game to an extent, it feels like its a bit more often this time around. Not that I'm one to judge activity level, but I feel like she seems more likely to deflect that kind of attention early before it comes up as scum. Not a whole lot there, but something about it makes me feel more like the Star Wars game when she was scum, although I may have somewhat of a skewed perspective having modded that as opposed to playing.

I've noticed that about both Vicious and a certain someone else, but I also remember him saying he was going to switch up his play after the last game so he wouldn't get killed right away. I agree that it's definitely something to watch.

Your point about the Star Wars game is valid. It's a bad coincidence that I had a busy past week, but I did start talking about that at the end of the Predators game, so I hope you see I wasn't just hiding out on purpose. Next week will be much better.

What does concern me is that somehow I'm much further up in the post counts than I should be ... I'm normally way near the bottom for the first few days. Plus I missed that whole first day of spam! This is why I'm worried that scum are hiding away in the shadows, trying not to say too much or take a bad first step.

[slats]

I've noticed that about both Vicious and a certain someone else...

All I ask is that if you're a vig, please be careful.

[Bleedin Green]

I've noticed that about both Vicious and a certain someone else, but I also remember him saying he was going to switch up his play after the last game so he wouldn't get killed right away. I agree that it's definitely something to watch.

Your point about the Star Wars game is valid. It's a bad coincidence that I had a busy past week, but I did start talking about that at the end of the Predators game, so I hope you see I wasn't just hiding out on purpose. Next week will be much better.

What does concern me is that somehow I'm much further up in the post counts than I should be ... I'm normally way near the bottom for the first few days. Plus I missed that whole first day of spam! This is why I'm worried that scum are hiding away in the shadows, trying not to say too much or take a bad first step.

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of the same thing when I saw where I was on the list.

[Sharrow]

I've only played the Star Wars game with DPR ... how was he during the Lost game? All I've seen was his destruction of Doggin, followed by his own brilliant crashing and burning. I've also been heh-ed at by him quite a bit, so I don't want that coloring my perspective.

The quiet folk give us so little to work with, I think it's really important to stay vigilant. I have my eye on some people. For right now, though, I'llvote Naeann. Very chatty early on, quieted down as the real discussions started, then popped in as soon as I28 was lynched to make a few jokes.

His first three JN games have been quite disastrous. I suppose he could still be trying to feel it out. unvote

[Dan.]

All I ask is that if you're a vig, please be careful.

Ouch, that wound was still open! GOODBYE SLATS.

[Dan.]

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of the same thing when I saw where I was on the list.

I'm definitely against using post counts on their own to make any kinds of decisions because of factors like spam, post length, timing, personal things people are dealing with, etc. However, it is pretty much unheard of for you and me to be up this high, under any circumstances. I don't feel like we're barraging this thread with an unusual amount of useless posts (I hope not, at least). I suspect a part of it has to do with scum and neutral players being afraid to say too much.

CTM (90)

Lily (86)

D P R (75)

Vicious89x (74)

Pac2566 (59)

Jets Voice of Reason (53)

Dan X (49)

Bleedin' Green (44)

JiF (43)

slats (42)

RuninOut (40)

Naeann (37)

Sharrow (34)

Barmacral (29)

AVM (27)

Smashmouth (23)

HessStation (7)

Verbal (6)

[Sharrow]

I'm definitely against using post counts on their own to make any kinds of decisions because of factors like spam, post length, timing, personal things people are dealing with, etc. However, it is pretty much unheard of for you and me to be up this high, under any circumstances. I don't feel like we're barraging this thread with an unusual amount of useless posts (I hope not, at least). I suspect a part of it has to do with scum and neutral players being afraid to say too much.

CTM (90)

Lily (86)

D P R (75)

Vicious89x (74)

Pac2566 (59)

Jets Voice of Reason (53)

Dan X (49)

Bleedin' Green (44)

JiF (43)

slats (42)

RuninOut (40)

Naeann (37)

Sharrow (34)

Barmacral (29)

AVM (27)

Smashmouth (23)

HessStation (7)

Verbal (6)

Where are Hess and Verbal? Do they have something going on?