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NIGHT STALKER

The Yankees core four......

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Jeter, Mariano, Pettitte and Posada. What are the chances of all four making the HOF? Jeter and Mariano are locks...Pettitte could very well make it. Posada, I don't think so.

Having 5 rings (could be more by the time they all retire) carries some weight when you are riding the fence.

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Jeter, Mariano, Pettitte and Posada. What are the chances of all four making the HOF? Jeter and Mariano are locks...Pettitte could very well make it. Posada, I don't think so.

Having 5 rings (could be more by the time they all retire) carries some weight when you are riding the fence.

Jeter and Rivera are locks.

The closest Pettitte and Posada (deserve to) get is attending their teammates' induction ceremonies.

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Jeter and Rivera are locks.

The closest Pettitte and Posada (deserve to) get is attending their teammates' induction ceremonies.

If Pettitte sticks around another 3-4 years he'll definitely get consideration.

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Pettitte has a shot. I doubt Posada has, though Kleck makes a very good point.

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Pettitte has a shot. I doubt Posada has, though Kleck makes a very good point.

A player has to be compared to players who played the same position. There are catchers in the Hall who didn't come close to putting up the offensive numbers Posada has put up, not to mention that longevity at that position is one of the keys for induction and that is certainly in his favor. He's caught more games as a Yankee than anyone, including Yogi Berra, Bill Dickey and Joe Gordon - and they are all in the Hall of Fame.

I think Posada is a Hall of Famer.

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The comparison is not just to players who played the same position. It's also to players who played in the same era. Is Posada that outstanding? I don't think so. I think he'll get some votes, but I do not believe he will get in.

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They are going to be penalized for their collective greatness.

Quick, put together the list of players who won 6 rings (I am counting at least one more, lol) that are NOT in the Hall of Fame...

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The comparison is not just to players who played the same position. It's also to players who played in the same era. Is Posada that outstanding? I don't think so. I think he'll get some votes, but I do not believe he will get in.

It's not fair to compare catchers to outfielders or 1st baseman.

You can compare him to other catchers from his own era and really, outside of Pudge Rodriguez, who is clearly the best cather of their generation, show me another guy who's been as good as Posada over the long haul. Mauer doesn't count because he's so young and isn't really in their generation.

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It's not fair to compare catchers to outfielders or 1st baseman.

You can compare him to other catchers from his own era and really, outside of Pudge Rodriguez, who is clearly the best cather of their generation, show me another guy who's been as good as Posada over the long haul. Mauer doesn't count because he's so young and isn't really in their generation.

Ignoring your obvious anti-Piazza bias, here are the players from his era for comparison:

Piazza - .308/.377/.545, 527 HR, 1335 RBI, 1048 R

I. Rodriguez - .299/.336/.470, 306 HR, 1285 RBI, 1325 R

Posada - .277/.379/.482, 252 HR, 990 RBI, 841 R

Javy Lopez - .287/.337/.491, 260 HR, 864 RBI, 674 R

162 Game Average

Piazza - .308, 36 HR, 113 RBI, 89 R

Pudge - .299, 20 HR, 86 RBI, 88 R

Posada - .277, 25 HR, 98 RBI, 83 R

Lopez - .287, 28 HR, 93 RBI, 73 R

Is Javy Lopez someone you would ever even consider for the HOF?

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if Jorge makes the HOF it's not because of his stats (which are certainly good...just not great). it's because of his leadership.

i don't know if i would put him in to be honest - he needs a few more years

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Ignoring your obvious anti-Piazza bias, here are the players from his era for comparison:

Piazza - .308/.377/.545, 527 HR, 1335 RBI, 1048 R

I. Rodriguez - .299/.336/.470, 306 HR, 1285 RBI, 1325 R

Posada - .277/.379/.482, 252 HR, 990 RBI, 841 R

Javy Lopez - .287/.337/.491, 260 HR, 864 RBI, 674 R

162 Game Average

Piazza - .308, 36 HR, 113 RBI, 89 R

Pudge - .299, 20 HR, 86 RBI, 88 R

Posada - .277, 25 HR, 98 RBI, 83 R

Lopez - .287, 28 HR, 93 RBI, 73 R

Is Javy Lopez someone you would ever even consider for the HOF?

Honestly, I totally blanked on Piazza because I am so much more focused on the American League it's not even funny.

The six rings go a long way. Pretending they don't count for anything is ridiculous.

Piazza and Pudge are unquestionable Hall of Famers. Posada's rings put him over the top.

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Ignoring your obvious anti-Piazza bias, here are the players from his era for comparison:

Piazza - .308/.377/.545, 527 HR, 1335 RBI, 1048 R

I. Rodriguez - .299/.336/.470, 306 HR, 1285 RBI, 1325 R

Posada - .277/.379/.482, 252 HR, 990 RBI, 841 R

Javy Lopez - .287/.337/.491, 260 HR, 864 RBI, 674 R

162 Game Average

Piazza - .308, 36 HR, 113 RBI, 89 R

Pudge - .299, 20 HR, 86 RBI, 88 R

Posada - .277, 25 HR, 98 RBI, 83 R

Lopez - .287, 28 HR, 93 RBI, 73 R

Is Javy Lopez someone you would ever even consider for the HOF?

I stand by Pudge as the best catcher of his generation. Are you going to even think about arguing Pudge vs. Piazza defensively?

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pudge was better defensively ofcourse

but as big of a gap as there is between defense, the offensive gap between him and Piazza is even more

142 career OPS+ vs 108 OPS+

not even clizzose

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lets take best 10 year span

piazza 93-02: .322/.389/.579, 154 OPS+, 346 HR, 559 walks, 789 strikeouts in 5,047 at bats

pudge 95-04: 316/.357/.515, 120 OPS+, 213 HR, 311 walks, 719 strikeouts in 5,158 atbats

not even CLOSE.

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I am of the belief that a catcher's most important job is behind the plate.

Then I guess Posada having 35 more passed balls in over 1,000 less innings behind the plate than Piazza speaks volumes...

Posada has always been very good at throwing out would-be basestealers, but let's not pretend that he's a defensive wizard behind the plate.

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Then I guess Posada having 35 more passed balls in over 1,000 less innings behind the plate than Piazza speaks volumes...

Posada has always been very good at throwing out would-be basestealers, but let's not pretend that he's a defensive wizard behind the plate.

I never did. But he's hardly a terrible defensive catcher and oh, he's got those six rings.

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I stand by Pudge as the best catcher of his generation. Are you going to even think about arguing Pudge vs. Piazza defensively?

You can stand by it all you want... it's not like you've never been wrong before.

Piazza is the greatest hitting catcher of all-time and managed to catch over 1,600 games in his career. While he'd have a tough time throwing out John Kruk on a pitchout, he still managed to catch over 1,600 games and finished in the top-5 in caught stealing % the same number of times as Posada.

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I never did. But he's hardly a terrible defensive catcher and oh, he's got those six rings.

Yeah, his .239/.351/.384 line in the postseason to go along with 11 HR's and 39 RBI's in 372 AB's is awe-inspiring. He has done even less in the World Series - .219/.333/.333.

Robert Horry won 7 championships contributing far more to his teams winning than Posada ever has in the playoffs... should he be in the NBA HOF?

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You can stand by it all you want... it's not like you've never been wrong before.

Piazza is the greatest hitting catcher of all-time and managed to catch over 1,600 games in his career. While he'd have a tough time throwing out John Kruk on a pitchout, he still managed to catch over 1,600 games and finished in the top-5 in caught stealing % the same number of times as Posada.

Did I ever say Piazza isn't a Hall of Flamer, err Famer?

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Jeter and Mo are obviously in. Posada probably not. Pettitte maybe, depends on how voters feel about cheaters at the time and his HGH doings. There are more qualified guys not getting in because of steroids, I doubt he'll be the exception.

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Did I ever say Piazza isn't a Hall of Flamer, err Famer?

No, just that Pudge was the best catcher of his generation.

So, does Javy Lopez get consideration for the HOF or not?

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Jeter, Mariano, Pettitte and Posada. What are the chances of all four making the HOF? Jeter and Mariano are locks...Pettitte could very well make it. Posada, I don't think so.

Having 5 rings (could be more by the time they all retire) carries some weight when you are riding the fence.

All these guys are locks.

Pettitte has won 5 championships with the Yankees. He's been to the World Series 8 times collectively as a Yankee and Astro Yet has only been in the league for 15 years. He has seen the World Series more often than not in his career (that is an absolute sick stat). He has more post season wins than any other pitcher in the history of the sport. Pettitte is a LOCK for the HOF.

Posada (Per Wiki)

He is the only Major League catcher to ever have hit .330 or better with 40 doubles, 20 home runs, and 90 RBIs in a single season. Posada and Yogi Berra are the only Yankees catchers to hit 30 home runs in a season. Since 2000, Posada had more runs batted in, home runs, and hits than any other catcher in baseball.

Not only is Posada a lock for the HOF, but you could argue the fact thay Posada may be the best Catcher in the history of baseball. Im not saying he is, but you could certainly make an arguement for it. So in that respect, I dont see how you can make such an arguement and in the same breath not see him as a lock for the HOF.

Edited by villain_the_foe

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Not only is Posada a lock for the HOF, but you could argue the fact thay Posada may be the best Catcher in the history of baseball. Im not saying he is, but you could certainly make an arguement for it. So in that respect, I dont see how you can make such an arguement and in the same breath not see him as a lock for the HOF.

You have a better chance convincing me that the First Law of Thermodynamics can be disproven by a guy on YouTube.

Posada is not even close to being a top-10 catcher of all-time - and that's me throwing out an easy number so that I can rattle off names from the top of my head. Hell, he's not even one of the top-5 catchers in NY baseball history.

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There is no discussion about Mariano or Jeter. I agree the other two probably won't and shouldn't make it. They do deserve the conversation though. Was Pettitte ever a #1 starter? There was usually somebody on top of him in the rotation. A guy that isn't going to the Hall. Pettitte and Posada are both borderline to below guys, but consistently and longevity has gotten them close so if they keep at it and keep winning things might change.

Am I the only one old enough that LT is Lawrence Taylor and Pudge is Carlton Fisk?

Isn't it a shame that it took me 20 minutes to remember Mariano Duncan's name? We play today, we win today. He and Rock were a big part of that championship in '96.

Edited by #27TheDominator

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jeter and rivera - yes

posada - no

pettitte - a cheater who got caught taking ped's...so i'd hope not

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Honestly, I totally blanked on Piazza because I am so much more focused on the American League it's not even funny.

The six rings go a long way. Pretending they don't count for anything is ridiculous.

Piazza and Pudge are unquestionable Hall of Famers. Posada's rings put him over the top.

how can you just completely ignore half the league? lol

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You have a better chance convincing me that the First Law of Thermodynamics can be disproven by a guy on YouTube.

Posada is not even close to being a top-10 catcher of all-time - and that's me throwing out an easy number so that I can rattle off names from the top of my head. Hell, he's not even one of the top-5 catchers in NY baseball history.

Well, obviously you dont pay attention and you knock what you dont know so I couldnt convince you of anything. Then again Jesus did say that the whole world would be deceived so im not surprised. Keep thinking that those books they feed you is everything that there is to know, while im on youtube.

You do know alot about sports though, I dont even watch baseball. I just gave my opinion. I have one of those. And your opinion, though yours can never topple my opinion. So why should I ever care?

:-)

Edited by villain_the_foe

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You do know alot about sports though, I dont even watch baseball. I just gave my opinion. I have one of those. And your opinion, though yours can never topple my opinion. So why should I ever care?

All opinions are not created equally - especially when you concede that you don't even watch the sport.

It would be like me offering my opinion of the greatest cricket player of all-time, when I know **** all about the game.

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Jesus said the world be deceived, but youtube = TRUTH?

One thing I will say is that people that do not pay too much attention to a sport are not qualified to nickel and dime over which player is better, but they are exactly the type of people that should tell you who belongs in the HOF. If somebody that doesn't intently follow the sport is intimately familiar with a player's accomplishments that tells me they deserved some consideration for eternal remembrance.

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If somebody that doesn't intently follow the sport is intimately familiar with a player's accomplishments that tells me they deserved some consideration for eternal remembrance.

If villain_the_foe was from Topeka, Kansas instead of the Bronx, I would agree.

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how can you just completely ignore half the league? lol

To be fair, I tend to ignore and entire league.

I'm a Yankees fan. I follow the American League closely. If the Yanks aren't on I am more likely to look for a game featuring at least one American League contender than watch any National League game.

Hell I know a guy who is in a big money fantasy baseball league that only uses National League players. If a guy is traded to the American League its as if that guy disappeared off the face of the Earth. This guy couldn't tell you who plays in what division in the American League but he's an enormous baseball fan.

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To be fair, I tend to ignore and entire league.

I'm a Yankees fan. I follow the American League closely. If the Yanks aren't on I am more likely to look for a game featuring at least one American League contender than watch any National League game.

Is this your roundabout way of saying that you're not going to answer my question about Javy Lopez being Hall-worthy?

You must have at least seen him in his first year in Baltimore... and he was better than Posada that year. I won't mention the '96 WS, because he was terrible in that series (after raking in the NLCS).

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All opinions are not created equally - especially when you concede that you don't even watch the sport.

It would be like me offering my opinion of the greatest cricket player of all-time, when I know **** all about the game.

Your opinion.

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