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Police Said to Taze Grandmother

By TIM HULL

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(CN) - Police Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she couldn't breathe, after her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, the woman and her grandson claim in Oklahoma City Federal Court. Though the grandson said, "Don't Taze my granny!" an El Reno police officer told another cop to "Taser her!" and wrote in his police report that he did so because the old woman "took a more aggressive posture in her bed," according to the complaint.

Lonnie Tinsley claims that he called 911 after he went to check on his grandmother, whom he found in her bed, "connected to a portable oxygen concentrator with a long hose." She is "in marginal health, [and] takes several prescribed medications daily," and "was unable to tell him exactly when she had taken her meds," so, Tinsley says, he called 911 "to ask for an emergency medical technician to come to her apartment to evaluate her."

In response, "as many as ten El Reno police" officers "pushed their way through the door," according to the complaint.

The grandma, Lona Varner, "told them to get out of her apartment."

The remarkable complaint continues: "Instead, the apparent leader of the police [defendant Thomas Duran] instructed another policeman to 'Taser her!' He stated in his report that the 86 year-old plaintiff 'took a more aggressive posture in her bed,' and that he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others.

"Lonnie Tinsley told them, 'Don't taze my Granny!' to which they responded that they would Taser him; instead, they pulled him out of her apartment, took him down to the floor, handcuffed him and placed him in the back of a police car.

"The police then proceeded to approach Ms. Varner in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she began to suffer oxygen deprivation.

"The police then fired a Taser at her and only one wire struck her, in the left arm; the police then fired a second Taser, striking her to the right and left of the midline of her upper chest and applied high voltage, causing burns to her chest, extreme pain and to pass out.

"The police then grabbed Ms. Varner by her forearms and jerked hands together, causing her soft flesh to tear and bleed on her bed; they then handcuffed her.

"The police freed Lonnie Tinsley from his incarceration in the back of the police car and permitted him to accompany the ambulance with his grandmother."

Tinsley says the cops capped it all off by having his grandmother "placed in the psychiatric ward at the direction of the El Reno police; she was held there for six days and released."

"As a result of the wrongful arrest and detention, the plaintiff Lona M. Varner suffered the unlawful restraint of her freedom, bodily injury, assault, battery, the trashing of her apartment, humiliation, loss of personal dignity, infliction of emotional distress and medical bills."

They seek punitive damages for constitutional violations, from the City of El Reno, Duran, Officers Frank Tinga and Joseph Sandberg, and 10 Officers Does.

They are represented by Brian Dell of Oklahoma City.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/24/28330.htm

see, i'm not "pro police brutality" i just think that it's an accusation that is entirely overused.

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yes, obviously the allegations could be exaggerated/false but as it is written i doubt few would argue that it was an abuse of power.

That's the key phrase here IMO. I seriously doubt it happened as they say it did.

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That's the key phrase here IMO. I seriously doubt it happened as they say it did.

for what it's worth, i do too. but it is very difficult to imagine a scenario where tasing a bed-ridden elderly woman on a ventilator is acceptable unless she had a gun under her pillow or something.

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I hope to christ this isn't true but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it is.

I've said it before, some in my profession are ENTIRELY way too quick to go to the Taser and some, the lazy asses, have used it as a means to avoid having to do policework.

Idiots like this, tasing old women and 10 year olds, are going to get the Tasers taken away from us.

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see, i'm not "pro police brutality" i just think that it's an accusation that is entirely overused.

It is overused, thats true. However, I do believe that police brutality is more common than you would like to believe. People will scream police brutality when they're dead azz wrong and police will abuse the power that they're given which is only supposed to be used to uphold the law. Think about that. That is SUCH a responsibility yet damn near anyone outside of a "known terrorist" can become a cop. The opportunity that is readily available for anyone to become a cop and hold guns and tasers does not reflect the responsibility in which the position entails. This is why police brutality is so common. I see police officers break more traffic laws in their cars than ANY other person that i've seen. Or when they ticket you for walking through the train cars, yet they walk freely through the train cars. I've even asked a cop one time. "Why are you walking through the cars, isnt it a violation"? The cop told me he can because he's a "COP", not that there was a crime he had to get to, not because he had to get to someone in order to save a life. It was because he was a cop. And the cops will give you the same excuse for just casually running a red light or double parking on the the street with the car pointed in the "OPPOSITE" direction of traffic which is quite common uptown. Please correct me if im wrong but Cops (and especially cops) arent and shouldnt be above the law given that they're the ones who have to lead by example in order to uphold it?...then again they do establish it by "force". If cops can drive through every Red light and ignore the traffic violations then I think it would be a good hypothesis that there's other laws that they're breaking as well yet want to enforce the very same law on you with tasers and guns.

Its comical when you think about it.

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I hope to christ this isn't true but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it is.

I've said it before, some in my profession are ENTIRELY way too quick to go to the Taser and some, the lazy asses, have used it as a means to avoid having to do policework.

Idiots like this, tasing old women and 10 year olds, are going to get the Tasers taken away from us.

This statement here simply reinforces why the PD is an absolute joke to me.

So you hope to Christ that this isnt true ultimately because your concern is that the Tasers will be taken away???? I'll say it again, "tasering old women is going to get the tasers taken away from us". Its like a kid with a new toy or something. It has NOTHING to do with the safety of the old women and 10 year old, that would just be too serious of a thought. Or the training of these police officers given that these "incidents" are a bit too popular for me to even believe that Cops are even professionals. The only concern is that these "lazy asses are going to get the tasers taken away from us"? I can see why people hate cops, strictly off of their reasoning. Most of the time they dont even pretend to give a f**k, And whats worse is that they're taught it through the system itself so you cant even blame them specifically.

Disgusting comment.

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This statement here simply reinforces why the PD is an absolute joke to me.

So you hope to Christ that this isnt true ultimately because your concern is that the Tasers will be taken away???? I'll say it again, "tasering old women is going to get the tasers taken away from us". Its like a kid with a new toy or something. It has NOTHING to do with the safety of the old women and 10 year old, that would just be too serious of a thought. Or the training of these police officers given that these "incidents" are a bit too popular for me to even believe that Cops are even professionals. The only concern is that these "lazy asses are going to get the tasers taken away from us"? I can see why people hate cops, strictly off of their reasoning. Most of the time they dont even pretend to give a f**k, And whats worse is that they're taught it through the system itself so you cant even blame them specifically.

Disgusting comment.

I'm pretty sure he means it will get tasers (read: non-lethal) tools taken away from them. Tools used in subduing truly dangerous people without the serious risk to suspects' lives that a guns do, or the risk to the cops' lives or safety that traditional batons do by requiring such close proximity to use.

The sense of disappointment - if not anger - is that they could lose the ability to use non-lethal force on dangerous suspects from a safe distance, not that they could lose the privilege of using a taser on just anyone for sh**s and giggles (certain JI/JN "suspects" notwithstanding). Insinuating the latter about him to make a point is an equally disgusting comment.

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This statement here simply reinforces why the PD is an absolute joke to me.

so wait a minute, the actions of a couple bad cops (which you provide no proof of except for your own dubious anecdotal "observations" of them walking through subway cars - the horror!) is enough for you to think the whole PD is a joke but the actions of the majority of good cops does nothing to make you think positively of the police? that my friend is called having a transparent agenda.

it's real easy to mock the police because (a) it's considered "cool" in the hipster doofus set to do so and (B) deep down you know that if you pick up that phone at 3am and need an officer at your house they'll still show up despite the fact that you "hate" them.

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There are good and bad Cops, Doctors, Attorneys, Plumbers, NFL fans, you name it. Contractors are notorious for being crooks. But, in my brief experience most in this country are good people and strive to do the right thing.

Just because a person carries a certain title that doesnt make them a Saint, perfect, all knowing or that they belong on a pedestal. Look at what happened on Wall St to the best and brightest in the world?

The person makes the profession not the other way around.

With that being said, NYC cops are over the top. I was there for 2 days and nearly got put behind bars.

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I'm pretty sure he means it will get tasers (read: non-lethal) tools taken away from them. Tools used in subduing truly dangerous people without the serious risk to suspects' lives that a guns do, or the risk to the cops' lives or safety that traditional batons do by requiring such close proximity to use.

The sense of disappointment - if not anger - is that they could lose the ability to use non-lethal force on dangerous suspects from a safe distance, not that they could lose the privilege of using a taser on just anyone for sh**s and giggles (certain JI/JN "suspects" notwithstanding). Insinuating the latter about him to make a point is an equally disgusting comment.

Tasers are not non lethal, and it can cause tramatic damage given the experience...but who cares? My point should be equally disgusting given what im insinuating. You're right about that. I know better with those tasers though.

And police only exist to keep the people in check and at bay from the people who control them. Thats it, so when I say these police are a joke its not solely because some taser grandmothers or punch minors in the face...its their role in the world overall. You can disagree with the truth if you like, doesnt change it none though.

There are alot of honest good folk who are police officers. These people also dont know the force they protect as well.

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so wait a minute, the actions of a couple bad cops (which you provide no proof of except for your own dubious anecdotal "observations" of them walking through subway cars - the horror!) is enough for you to think the whole PD is a joke but the actions of the majority of good cops does nothing to make you think positively of the police? that my friend is called having a transparent agenda.

it's real easy to mock the police because (a) it's considered "cool" in the hipster doofus set to do so and (B) deep down you know that if you pick up that phone at 3am and need an officer at your house they'll still show up despite the fact that you "hate" them.

Let me think on this one.

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There are good and bad Cops, Doctors, Attorneys, Plumbers, NFL fans, you name it. Contractors are notorious for being crooks. But, in my brief experience most in this country are good people and strive to do the right thing.

Just because a person carries a certain title that doesnt make them a Saint, perfect, all knowing or that they belong on a pedestal. Look at what happened on Wall St to the best and brightest in the world?

The person makes the profession not the other way around.

With that being said, NYC cops are over the top. I was there for 2 days and nearly got put behind bars.

+1

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yes, obviously the allegations could be exaggerated/false but as it is written i doubt few would argue that it was an abuse of power.

Given that the police report apparently noted the tasering and justified it only based on the 86 yr old woman "taking a more aggressive posture in bed", the essential details are pretty much admitted by the police

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This statement here simply reinforces why the PD is an absolute joke to me.

So you hope to Christ that this isnt true ultimately because your concern is that the Tasers will be taken away???? I'll say it again, "tasering old women is going to get the tasers taken away from us". Its like a kid with a new toy or something. It has NOTHING to do with the safety of the old women and 10 year old, that would just be too serious of a thought. Or the training of these police officers given that these "incidents" are a bit too popular for me to even believe that Cops are even professionals. The only concern is that these "lazy asses are going to get the tasers taken away from us"? I can see why people hate cops, strictly off of their reasoning. Most of the time they dont even pretend to give a f**k, And whats worse is that they're taught it through the system itself so you cant even blame them specifically.

Disgusting comment.

You're construing my words to suit your personal opinion & agenda. For you to assume that I would condone the tasing of an 87 year old bed-ridden woman is as ludicrous as you assuming every single PD is a joke.

It was a two part response made independent of each other, noting my disgust at the fact a taser was used on an old woman, while also noting that the idiots in my profession who continue to use Tasers as a replacement for doing their F-ing job are going to lead to the unavailability of a non-lethal tool which I could use against a SOB who truly needs it.

Come to Detroit, take a look at DPD and take a look at what's going on. They do not have Tasers and they barely have any form of non-lethal means at their disposal. The result? DPD has one of the highest deadly force rates in the nation. Tasers have a great role and if used right, can prevent injury to both the Officer and Suspect, but they take common sense & good judgment to use.

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You're construing my words to suit your personal opinion & agenda. For you to assume that I would condone the tasing of an 87 year old bed-ridden woman is as ludicrous as you assuming every single PD is a joke.

It was a two part response made independent of each other, noting my disgust at the fact a taser was used on an old woman, while also noting that the idiots in my profession who continue to use Tasers as a replacement for doing their F-ing job are going to lead to the unavailability of a non-lethal tool which I could use against a SOB who truly needs it.

Come to Detroit, take a look at DPD and take a look at what's going on. They do not have Tasers and they barely have any form of non-lethal means at their disposal. The result? DPD has one of the highest deadly force rates in the nation. Tasers have a great role and if used right, can prevent injury to both the Officer and Suspect, but they take common sense & good judgment to use.

Dude, don't bother. Kid has his own agenda and ideas and fails to recognize the need for order in society. This incident tars thousands of good cops for people like him to string up and beat like pi

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so wait a minute, the actions of a couple bad cops (which you provide no proof of except for your own dubious anecdotal "observations" of them walking through subway cars - the horror!) is enough for you to think the whole PD is a joke but the actions of the majority of good cops does nothing to make you think positively of the police? that my friend is called having a transparent agenda.

it's real easy to mock the police because (a) it's considered "cool" in the hipster doofus set to do so and (B) deep down you know that if you pick up that phone at 3am and need an officer at your house they'll still show up despite the fact that you "hate" them.

Dubious anecdotal "observations"? It being real easy to mock the police in a "hipster doofus" way?....okay Let me try it this way then.

Let me state specifically why the PD's (and the political process really) are a joke and that they'll do whatever the people/corporations who provide the money to the departments tell them to do.

Lets say someone is murdered at 3am, the cops will go to the scene, figure out if it was a "crime" that occured (they'll investigate) and will begin trying to solve the case if in fact it was a crime.

Lets say they find this "average joe/jane". This person will go through the court system, possibly be indicted and sent to prison for an amount of time while the public is in appreciation.

Now, lets also say that we can have a possible negligent crime here with a Corporation.....lets say ahhhhhhhh........BP oil who KNEW about their faulty equipment that cost the lives of 11 people on the oil rig, contamination of an eco system and the future lives of we dont even know how many people once millions begin to inhale the Benzene, Hydrogen sulfide and Methylene chloride in the air from the crude oil being shot out by as much as 4 million gallons a day.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/06/21/2010-06-21_bp_knew_about_faulty_equiptment_weeks_before_explosion_says_employee_tyrone_bent.html

http://kyotoobserver.vox.com/library/link/6a00e398b11420000501347f02875b860b.html

Now, instead of an investigation occuring by the police we then hear the President (Max I wont make this political) say that BP has to clean up the mess, pay for the clean up and be fined 20 Billion dollars. However, BP has a trick up their sleeve. The next day BP announces that they will raise 20-50 billion in NEW BONDS AND LOANS with the help of Goldman Sachs and Wall Street bankers in order to pay the 20 Billion with Loan and Bond money and not from their own profit magin (Mind you this company makes more than Apple and Google combined yet their taking out BILLIONS in loans).

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/6071404.cms

You see, after the corporation BP oil makes money on the way up from the Bonds and loans that they'll invest through new derivatives, the tax payer (you and others) will then have to fork over more money for a future bailout when the bets belly's up and go bad when they try to he hedge the new offerings. So while the public goes broke bailing more companies out and breathing in crude oil gases, the CEO's exit with an extra 30 billion in their pocket while taking borrowed money to clean up the oil putting John/Jane Doe's lives at risk in order to get it done because everyone is seeking a job....ANY JOB during this reccession. And thats not even talking about how the bailout will then add to the overall debt the country already has through the FED which is interest based.

My question to you is this.... where's the police in all of this cuz I dont see them? Where's the investigation? Where's the criminal charges, because outside of the criminal act I can obviously see fraud in this as well? I can show examples like this all day. Yet a Cop can lock you up and the system hit you with a 3 strikes max out rule for a bag of weed and a dutch???? Well, thats just f'ing hilarious to me and makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah, the police and the system at its "finest". Chalk up another one boys, while these companies are tanking their 401K's and their social security the police dont even know it. They're going to be pissed when the find out though. To be honest, I dont have problems with cops the "people", I have a problem with cops "the system", because its a bunch of bullshyte as shown.

People calling me out for simply stating the ever so obvious as if im some type of hipster doofus who simply provides dubious anecdotal observations about them running red lights, walking through the trains and ignoring other rules/laws and violations when its THE TRUTH is portrayed to be ridiculous. If you say so.

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You're construing my words to suit your personal opinion & agenda. For you to assume that I would condone the tasing of an 87 year old bed-ridden woman is as ludicrous as you assuming every single PD is a joke.

It was a two part response made independent of each other, noting my disgust at the fact a taser was used on an old woman, while also noting that the idiots in my profession who continue to use Tasers as a replacement for doing their F-ing job are going to lead to the unavailability of a non-lethal tool which I could use against a SOB who truly needs it.

Come to Detroit, take a look at DPD and take a look at what's going on. They do not have Tasers and they barely have any form of non-lethal means at their disposal. The result? DPD has one of the highest deadly force rates in the nation. Tasers have a great role and if used right, can prevent injury to both the Officer and Suspect, but they take common sense & good judgment to use.

The PD is a joke, it is what it is. You may personally mean wel G.O.B.l, but the organization mentality is harmful to societies through forceful control and manipulation. You my friend defend the department system because you're an officer and you're judging the situation based on your "personal" morals and respect for life which I can understand totally. I criticize the fact that the system itself is corrupt from the top...and the shyte always falls to the bottom no matter how many moral people they have on payroll.

Tasers are psychological weapons, lets be for real here. It being "less lethal" than a gun doesnt mean that it isnt lethal #1, and also it doesnt mean that the person getting tasered is having a good time. Its a very tramatic situation and its a play on the psyche. This is well known, not that the police departments care, its another weapon from the plethora to choose from. You'd be surprise the amount of trama-based violence you can inflict on a human being without killing them. THATS the way I look at tasers, pretty straight forward.

And as for me going to Detroit, violence in another state wouldnt impress me. I get enough of that here in NY so why make the trip? Instead of good folk like yourself having to put your life on the line everytime you go to work simply for a paycheck maybe the system should do some real research and figure out whats happening in these communities where violence poverty and drugs are prevalent and work with your brothers and sisters to help fix the problem through faith and trust. But na, that'll be too smart. That means the system would have to seek and then "accept" the truth. The system would rather keep it cops vs suspects & co-defendent. Its more profitable that way.

It does take common sense to be a PEACE officer. However there are many police officers that lack those peaceful qualities, and thats enough to be able to criticize the departments as a system (not the workers). So again, I will criticize a corrupt system that hires irresponsible people, give them weapons and expect me to adhere to that. I wont sit here on Jetnation and thank you G.O.B. for keeping me and my kids safe when its MY responsibility to keep my family safe, and I would never put that responsibility on you for a paycheck when you have a family that you need to protect yourself. Let me explain alittle about NYPD and their "quotas" and you let me know if this is or isnt abuse by the system (not just one police officer giving the world of officers a bad name as some would like to put it).

m3mmuZsHmv8

The 2nd police story is MY neighborhood precinct. Maybe I should thank Officer Polanco for standing up to the system that vicious thinks is "necessary order". You know what?...Thank you Officer Polanco for going against the "blue wall of silence" (sounds like a gang if you ask me) and standing up not FOR the people but for what was right. Too bad Internal Affairs is going to have your head for the disloyalty because the SYSTEM is the problem. Thank you retired officer Miranda for telling the truth about how people are prisioners in their own neighborhoods by the police dept via racial profiling. No wonder why I get so many tickets, yet all I did was go to the 24 hour store for orange juice and a philly cheese sandwich. Could you explain the information in that video officer G.O.B. and tell me how the system ISNT corrupt?

Now back to the REAL problem...I see people pushing off responsibility every day. They're more concerned about money than anything else in the world given thats how tha world is ran. Its not their fault solely. We were all caught up in it at one time, I've just decided to stop lying to myself. The lack of taking responsibility while wanting to be the "Judge" of others is the #1 problem in the world today. Get rid of that and you wont need a taser in Detroit.

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Dubious anecdotal "observations"? It being real easy to mock the police in a "hipster doofus" way?....okay Let me try it this way then.

Let me state specifically why the PD's (and the political process really) are a joke and that they'll do whatever the people/corporations who provide the money to the departments tell them to do.

Lets say someone is murdered at 3am, the cops will go to the scene, figure out if it was a "crime" that occured (they'll investigate) and will begin trying to solve the case if in fact it was a crime.

Lets say they find this "average joe/jane". This person will go through the court system, possibly be indicted and sent to prison for an amount of time while the public is in appreciation.

Now, lets also say that we can have a possible negligent crime here with a Corporation.....lets say ahhhhhhhh........BP oil who KNEW about their faulty equipment that cost the lives of 11 people on the oil rig, contamination of an eco system and the future lives of we dont even know how many people once millions begin to inhale the Benzene, Hydrogen sulfide and Methylene chloride in the air from the crude oil being shot out by as much as 4 million gallons a day.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/06/21/2010-06-21_bp_knew_about_faulty_equiptment_weeks_before_explosion_says_employee_tyrone_bent.html

http://kyotoobserver.vox.com/library/link/6a00e398b11420000501347f02875b860b.html

Now, instead of an investigation occuring by the police we then hear the President (Max I wont make this political) say that BP has to clean up the mess, pay for the clean up and be fined 20 Billion dollars. However, BP has a trick up their sleeve. The next day BP announces that they will raise 20-50 billion in NEW BONDS AND LOANS with the help of Goldman Sachs and Wall Street bankers in order to pay the 20 Billion with Loan and Bond money and not from their own profit magin (Mind you this company makes more than Apple and Google combined yet their taking out BILLIONS in loans).

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/6071404.cms

You see, after the corporation BP oil makes money on the way up from the Bonds and loans that they'll invest through new derivatives, the tax payer (you and others) will then have to fork over more money for a future bailout when the bets belly's up and go bad when they try to he hedge the new offerings. So while the public goes broke bailing more companies out and breathing in crude oil gases, the CEO's exit with an extra 30 billion in their pocket while taking borrowed money to clean up the oil putting John/Jane Doe's lives at risk in order to get it done because everyone is seeking a job....ANY JOB during this reccession. And thats not even talking about how the bailout will then add to the overall debt the country already has through the FED which is interest based.

My question to you is this.... where's the police in all of this cuz I dont see them? Where's the investigation? Where's the criminal charges, because outside of the criminal act I can obviously see fraud in this as well? I can show examples like this all day. Yet a Cop can lock you up and the system hit you with a 3 strikes max out rule for a bag of weed and a dutch???? Well, thats just f'ing hilarious to me and makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah, the police and the system at its "finest". Chalk up another one boys, while these companies are tanking their 401K's and their social security the police dont even know it. They're going to be pissed when the find out though. To be honest, I dont have problems with cops the "people", I have a problem with cops "the system", because its a bunch of bullshyte as shown.

People calling me out for simply stating the ever so obvious as if im some type of hipster doofus who simply provides dubious anecdotal observations about them running red lights, walking through the trains and ignoring other rules/laws and violations when its THE TRUTH is portrayed to be ridiculous. If you say so.

Agreed.

This situation is completely analogous to the oil spill.

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Concerning the OP...if any, and I mean ANY of you think there is even the slightest thread of truth to it...I have this great bridge for sale. Seriously.

#1. Neither Tasers nor Pepper spray are approved for use on the elderly except in the most extreme of situations.

#2 The cops purposely choked her out after tasering her by stepping on her Oxygen hose? You realize cops are first responders trained in CPR, portable defibrillators and portable oxygen use, as well as many being EMT's. Why on earth would they try to kill an old lady only to necessarily revive her? Really?

#3 Ten patrolman and a supervisor show up to a routine medical evaluation. Huh. Okay bulls*it. Sarcasm isn't even worth it. Just Bulls*it.

#4 A guy is arrested and then un-arrested for saying "please don't taze my granny?" This would be too unrealistic for an SNL skit. Seriously.

#5 The cops handcuffed an 86 year old lady because she asked them to leave and then proceeded to manhandle her enough to draw blood. Sure. Totally happened just like that. Must be true. All cops are out to kill old ladies and kick puppies. It's just the way it is.

#6 She went to the hospital for psyche-eval and doctors (not cops) held her for 6 days. Because doctors secretly go to cop-doctor meetings where they scheme better ways to screw with the elderly. This happens. Totally.

"The police freed Lonnie Tinsley from his incarceration in the back of the police car and permitted him to accompany the ambulance with his grandmother."

His incarceration. Classic

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+1

Dont bother G.O.B. I fail to see the "old order" of society turning into the "new" one. lol.

For the record, if this order isnt a "Godly" one then what is it really? Maybe you should concentrate on your own agendas given that you're raising such a handsome young son instead of worrying about how off my agendas are when Jesus hasnt lied to me once. And I mean that in the highest respect to you and your family Vicious.

(Its not that hard to see the corruption in the system once you stop lying to yourself about it)

UT5MY3C86bk[/

Keep my kid ****ing out of it.

If I do my job I'll raise him to not be an completely unappreciative dip****. Don't tell me how I should be raising my son.

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Total Line of Duty Deaths: 83

Aircraft accident: 1

Assault: 2

Automobile accident: 24

Boating accident: 1

Drowned: 1

Fall: 2

Gunfire: 28

Gunfire (Accidental): 1

Heart attack: 7

Motorcycle accident: 3

Struck by train: 1

Struck by vehicle: 4

Vehicle pursuit: 3

Vehicular assault: 5

As of June 26

does not include officers who survived being shot, stabbed, run over, bitten by dogs, beaten, burned, struck by cars, punched, kicked, cut, crippled, paralyzed, brain damaged, infected, etc. etc. etc.

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So... What are you implying?

That essentially the world isn't out to get you nyou can challenge conventional thought but at the same time appreciate things in thenworld you are unwilling to do.

I guess showing how a insider stated how the CIA and other agencies sold drugs to the inner cities of this entire country basically for profit could completely be ignored.

I dont appreciate knowing that crack heads and dope fiends that I seen growing up are the product of the very system that claims to work for the benefit of me and mine. I could be ridiculed all throughout but no one besides myself will actually TRY and look to see if what im saying is true. So how could I even take the implication seriously?

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You're construing my words to suit your personal opinion & agenda. For you to assume that I would condone the tasing of an 87 year old bed-ridden woman is as ludicrous as you assuming every single PD is a joke.

It was a two part response made independent of each other, noting my disgust at the fact a taser was used on an old woman, while also noting that the idiots in my profession who continue to use Tasers as a replacement for doing their F-ing job are going to lead to the unavailability of a non-lethal tool which I could use against a SOB who truly needs it.

Come to Detroit, take a look at DPD and take a look at what's going on. They do not have Tasers and they barely have any form of non-lethal means at their disposal. The result? DPD has one of the highest deadly force rates in the nation. Tasers have a great role and if used right, can prevent injury to both the Officer and Suspect, but they take common sense & good judgment to use.

Yes. I didn't have the same reaction to your first post. I seemed to understand what you meant. You didn't come off as pro-tasering to me.

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So... What are you implying?

That essentially the world isn't out to get you nyou can challenge conventional thought but at the same time appreciate things in thenworld you are unwilling to do.

Now that I've read what is being implied, let my tell you what im implying.

Until an officer establishes "probable cause", there's a roman maximum in law that says "equality before the law is paramount and mandatory". That means before you established that I did anything wrong you and I are on equal footing my friend no matter what uniform you're wearing. So I will be treated with respect and you will speak across to me and not down to me...or I will NOT assist you in any way, shape or form because you have presented yourself as an adversary and not an officer of the law.

I believe that the slightly baggy clothes I wear tend to fool cops in regards to my level of intelligence for some reason. Probably why I've had numerous run-ins with cops yet dont have a record. They've hit me with a few tickets though by forcefully taking my wallet. I've fixed that though, I no longer hold proper ID on me unless I know im going to use it that day :-)

If a person can look you dead in the eyes and tell you "anything you say can and will be used against you" then i know not to say anything to that person. They cant have my ID, they cant have my name, address...anything. Dont get me wrong though, I have intuition. If a cop shows that he's a nice person and is respectful then I respond accordingly. However, I still dont give them ANY information because it will be used "against" me, as stated...everytime. Just ask G.O.B. if im lying. Too bad the education system doesnt teach you your rights. I had to go out on my own to learn that.

So yes, I appreciate and respect my rights as well as privacy...so much that I wont let an officer or anyone for that matter violate them.

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Now that I've read what is being implied, let my tell you what im implying.

Until an officer establishes "probable cause", there's a roman maximum in law that says "equality before the law is paramount and mandatory". That means before you established that I did anything wrong you and I are on equal footing my friend no matter what uniform you're wearing. So I will be treated with respect and you will speak across to me and not down to me...or I will NOT assist you in any way, shape or form because you have presented yourself as an adversary and not an officer of the law.

I believe that the slightly baggy clothes I wear tend to fool cops in regards to my level of intelligence for some reason. Probably why I've had numerous run-ins with cops yet dont have a record. They've hit me with a few tickets though by forcefully taking my wallet. I've fixed that though, I no longer hold proper ID on me unless I know im going to use it that day :-)

If a person can look you dead in the eyes and tell you "anything you say can and will be used against you" then i know not to say anything to that person. They cant have my ID, they cant have my name, address...anything. Dont get me wrong though, I have intuition. If a cop shows that he's a nice person and is respectful then I respond accordingly. However, I still dont give them ANY information because it will be used "against" me, as stated...everytime. Just ask G.O.B. if im lying. Too bad the education system doesnt teach you your rights. I had to go out on my own to learn that.

So yes, I appreciate and respect my rights as well as privacy...so much that I wont let an officer or anyone for that matter violate them.

And who is it that protects those rights and gives you the ability to excersize them? Perhaps a visit to the Congo or the slums of Mexico, or any number of countries existing without the rule of law or the people who enforce and uphold that societal priviledge, would change your perspective. you take for granted that the police are your enemy, without realizing that should you become dangerously ill, injured, threatened, attacked, or victimized in any way, you need only dial three numbers and someone will be on the way come hell or high water. The sense entitlement boggles the mind when it comes to police-bashing. You don't like the police or how they operate? consider the alternative. You feel the men and women of law enforcement should be better at what they do? Pay them more than 75G a year and you'll get better candidates willing to risk their lives for a paycheck. In the mean-time, try not to insult law enforcement professionals by lumping them all into one power-hungry, corrupt stereotype. Most officers have a genuine sense of duty and respect for the community. And many are taken from their loved ones--wives, husbands, children, parents--too soon while trying to serve their communities for mediocre pay and little appreciation.

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