knicks free agency thread

[InstantClassic]

^ Gave up on Jameer already, kid?

Knicks need that!

Of course not..I love Jameer's scoring threat..but he's a shoot first PG.

Seeing what CP3 did to Tyson Chandler..imagine what he could do with an already dominant all-star center.

While CP3's list reads Knicks (1), Magic (2)..The Magic have a lot more in terms of talent to offer (Vince or JJ, Meer, Gortat) which would INSTANTLY fill some of those needs the Hornets have.

Otis! Otis! Otis!

[JohnnyHector]

Of course not..I love Jameer's scoring threat..but he's a shoot first PG.

Seeing what CP3 did to Tyson Chandler..imagine what he could do with an already dominant all-star center.

While CP3's list reads Knicks (1), Magic (2)..The Magic have a lot more in terms of talent to offer (Vince or JJ, Meer, Gortat) which would INSTANTLY fill some of those needs the Hornets have.

Otis! Otis! Otis!

The Knicks have much more to offer New Orleans, a team that will be in rebuilding mode if they trade Paul and thus, do not care about instantly filling holes with overpaid veterans. They also aren't terribly interested in a PG, as Collison can step up and fill that role. Cheap, young talent is what they'll be looking for in return, and the Knicks have more of that to offer.

Otis is the same GM who traded Turkoglu for a TPE that he let expire... I wouldn't put too much faith in him.

[Falcon63]

lolknicks

[rillo]

lolknicks

Shhhhh.

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[InstantClassic]

The Knicks have much more to offer New Orleans, a team that will be in rebuilding mode if they trade Paul and thus, do not care about instantly filling holes with overpaid veterans. They also aren't terribly interested in a PG, as Collison can step up and fill that role. Cheap, young talent is what they'll be looking for in return, and the Knicks have more of that to offer.

Otis is the same GM who traded Turkoglu for a TPE that he let expire... I wouldn't put too much faith in him.

You don't believe this, do you?

The Knicks have NOTHING the Hornets, or any other team would want for that matter.

Vince's contract is expiring...Gortat is a Top 5-7 center in the NBA and would start for them. Pietrus, Bass, Anderson are all pieces that are affordable.

Surrounding David West with some talented pieces would avoid having to rebuild for NO..in addition to getting future draft choices.

I'm very confident in Otis..letting the TPE expire was done to keep the Magic from digging themselves deeper in to the luxury tax.

[Falcon63]

You don't believe this, do you?

The Knicks have NOTHING the Hornets, or any other team would want for that matter.

Vince's contract is expiring...Gortat is a Top 5-7 center in the NBA and would start for them. Pietrus, Bass, Anderson are all pieces that are affordable.

Surrounding David West with some talented pieces would avoid having to rebuild for NO..in addition to getting future draft choices.

I'm very confident in Otis..letting the TPE expire was done to keep the Magic from digging themselves deeper in to the luxury tax.

Gortat is not even CLOSE to a top 5-7 center in the NBA...LOL!

[InstantClassic]

Gortat is not even CLOSE to a top 5-7 center in the NBA...LOL!

Let's see your list.

[InstantClassic]

The Knicks have much more to offer New Orleans, a team that will be in rebuilding mode if they trade Paul and thus, do not care about instantly filling holes with overpaid veterans. They also aren't terribly interested in a PG, as Collison can step up and fill that role. Cheap, young talent is what they'll be looking for in return, and the Knicks have more of that to offer.

Otis is the same GM who traded Turkoglu for a TPE that he let expire... I wouldn't put too much faith in him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5405528

The Orlando Magic have emerged as the top team on Paul's list of preferred destinations, replacing the New York Knicks, according to league sources.

While the Knicks are still high on Paul's list, he believes the Magic, with all-star center Dwight Howard, would be a better fit. Paul also realizes Orlando has much more to offer New Orleans in a trade and therefore believes it is a more realistic destination than New York, according to the sources.

[RutgersJetFan]

Let's see your list.

In no particular order: Howard, Jefferson, Lopez, Horford, Bogut, Lee, Kaman, Nene, Bargnani, Haywood, Okur, Perkins,...etc.

About another 10-15 players down that list you can probably make a case for Gortat, even considering he's a backup. This conversation is pretty stupid.

[InstantClassic]

In no particular order: Howard, Jefferson, Lopez, Horford, Bogut, Lee, Kaman, Nene, Bargnani, Haywood, Okur, Perkins,...etc.

About another 10-15 players down that list you can probably make a case for Gortat, even considering he's a backup. This conversation is pretty stupid.

Do you watch basketball?

Jefferson is a PF

David Lee is a PF (Wouldn't you know this being a Knicks fan??)

Kaman, no..not anymore.

Haywood..not so much.

Okur..no.

Howard...Elite

Lopez, Horford, Bogut, Bargnani - very solid young players..would have all of them in top 5-7

Nene, Perkins - More top 10 or so

I would love to see this additional 10-15 players you speak of. Are they PF's too?

[RutgersJetFan]

Otis is the same GM who traded Turkoglu for a TPE that he let expire... I wouldn't put too much faith in him.

And traded for ****ing Vince Carter...

[JohnnyHector]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5405528

Yes, Chris Broussard quoting a source (LRMR?) that claims that Chris Paul thinks the Magic have more to offer in a trade equates to ownage. "More to offer" doesn't necessarily mean talent, to which I was referring, but the ability to take on bad contracts.

The only thing I will concede that Orlando has that the Knicks don't is more of a willingness to take back Okafor, the ability to take on Posey as well, and a bigger albatross of an expiring contact to swap. Either New Orleans is looking for a salary dump (Orlando/Dallas), or they're looking to add several young, cheap players (Knicks).

Here's a trade possibility:

Paul/Okafor/Posey for Carter/Gortat/Bass/Anderson + picks/cash

I can see NO not wanting to take back Nelson, as I'm sure they'd like to get a better look at Collison and not take on $7m+ for the next few years - unless they get a third team involved. The fact that he's a big makes Gortat a valuable chip, but overall, you can't tell me that package of players is an impressive return.

If the Knicks balk at having to take back Okafor while losing Gallo AND Randolph, they'll have to roll with Felton, (hopefully) sign Melo in the offseason, and then wait for Deron Williams or Paul to opt out in 2012.

[JohnnyHector]

The Knicks have NOTHING the Hornets, or any other team would want for that matter.

Vince's contract is expiring...Gortat is a Top 5-7 center in the NBA and would start for them. Pietrus, Bass, Anderson are all pieces that are affordable.

Pietrus, Bass, and Anderson are "affordable pieces", but Gallinari, Randolph, and Chandler are worthless?

Way to be objective...

[InstantClassic]

Pietrus, Bass, and Anderson are "affordable pieces", but Gallinari, Randolph, and Chandler are worthless?

Way to be objective...

Absolutely not..those are all pretty good options as well. I actually really like Chandler.. I think he is a poor man's Iguodala.

[InstantClassic]

Yes, Chris Broussard quoting a source (LRMR?) that claims that Chris Paul thinks the Magic have more to offer in a trade equates to ownage. "More to offer" doesn't necessarily mean talent, to which I was referring, but the ability to take on bad contracts.

The only thing I will concede that Orlando has that the Knicks don't is more of a willingness to take back Okafor, the ability to take on Posey as well, and a bigger albatross of an expiring contact to swap. Either New Orleans is looking for a salary dump (Orlando/Dallas), or they're looking to add several young, cheap players (Knicks).

Here's a trade possibility:

Paul/Okafor/Posey for Carter/Gortat/Bass/Anderson + picks/cash

I can see NO not wanting to take back Nelson, as I'm sure they'd like to get a better look at Collison and not take on $7m+ for the next few years - unless they get a third team involved. The fact that he's a big makes Gortat a valuable chip, but overall, you can't tell me that package of players is an impressive return.

If the Knicks balk at having to take back Okafor while losing Gallo AND Randolph, they'll have to roll with Felton, (hopefully) sign Melo in the offseason, and then wait for Deron Williams or Paul to opt out in 2012.

His sources told us LeBron was Miami bound in advance..IDK who his sources are but in this case i'll stick with them.

Otis will do what is best for the team..whether that's with or without CP3.

If NO is unreasonable (which i'm willing to bet they will be) he will walk away from the deal.

[JohnnyHector]

His sources told us LeBron was Miami bound in advance..IDK who his sources are but in this case i'll stick with them.

Stephen A. Smith broke that story before Broussard jumped onboard.

If NO is unreasonable (which i'm willing to bet they will be) he will walk away from the deal.

I don't see how Orlando can get Paul without also taking on Okafor and Posey's contracts, as beyond Gortat, I don't think anyone else would interest NO from a talent standpoint... taking on those deals has significant luxury tax implications for the Magic.

[JohnnyHector]

Absolutely not..those are all pretty good options as well. I actually really like Chandler.. I think he is a poor man's Iguodala.

I was writing that in reponse to your assertion that:

The Knicks have NOTHING the Hornets, or any other team would want for that matter.

[RutgersJetFan]

as beyond Gortat, I don't think anyone else would interest NO from a talent standpoint...

Is this because of F/C's not existing in Fantasy Land and Magic fans being dumb?

[InstantClassic]

Stephen A. Smith broke that story before Broussard jumped onboard.

I don't see how Orlando can get Paul without also taking on Okafor and Posey's contracts, as beyond Gortat, I don't think anyone else would interest NO from a talent standpoint... taking on those deals has significant luxury tax implications for the Magic.

Cool story bro.

I don't see how a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs in (fill in the blank here..IDK how long it's been) has more pieces a team would want than from a team that has been to the Finals and Conference Finals two years running..but you keep telling yourself that.

[InstantClassic]

Is this because of F/C's not existing in Fantasy Land and Magic fans being dumb?

See above statement..still waiting for your 10-15 additional player list..still trying to pull that one out of your ass?

You've already been exposed..your witty comebacks can't save you here.

Too bad..you were a good poster on JI.

[RutgersJetFan]

See above statement..still waiting for your 10-15 additional player list..still trying to pull that one out of your ass?.

Lesson time is over. The concept of F/C's is pretty common to anyone above the age of 10. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain it to you. Especially when one's retort to players mentioned consists of nothing more than 'no he's not! No he's not!'

[InstantClassic]

Lesson time is over. The concept of F/C's is pretty common to anyone above the age of 10. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain it to you. Especially when one's retort to players mentioned consists of nothing more than 'no he's not! No he's not!'

Just as I suspected..I call bull**** and you cant back yourself up.

In an argument over who the top 5-7 CENTERS are in the NBA..you name PF's, look like a moron doing so and then try and wiggle your way out of it.

If I ask who the top 5-7 PG's are in the NBA..will you name Wade, Kobe, Lebron because they have brought the ball up the floor from time to time?

The only lesson learned here is you are completely clueless when it comes to basketball. Stick to movies.

[RutgersJetFan]

Just as I suspected..I call bull**** and you cant back yourself up.

In an argument over who the top 5-7 CENTERS are in the NBA..you name PF's, look like a moron doing so and then try and wiggle your way out of it.

It's not an issue of can't, it's just been a question of whether or not it's even worth the time because it's pretty clear where all your posts tend to venture, as evidenced in your dumb recant to Hector in the Knicks having "nothing to offer the Hornets," (everything Magic is teh awesome! Everything everyone else is teh dumb).

I don't know what to tell you. David Lee played Center last season. He made the All-Star team as a Center (but we'll get to that in a second). He played the position pretty much much full-time. Better than Marcin Gortat. The fact that you're claiming this isn't true is quite perplexing. Al Jefferson, though likely moving to PF with Okur at the 5 in Utah, played a significant amount of time at center in Minnesota. And guess what? He did it better than Marcin Gortat. Players who are PF's on some teams play Center on others. It's pretty common, and it's shocking that someone who is as all-knowing as you doesn't know this very simple aspect of the game. Ama're Stoudamire has seen an absurd amount of time at the position, and probably still will in NY. And guess what? He'll play it better than Marcin Gortat. Joakim Noah plays a ton of time at center. Better than Marcin Gortat. Pau Gasol when he's at the position? Better than Marcin Gortat. Bynum? Better than Marcin Gortat. Aging Brad Miller? Still better than Marcin Gortat. Krstic? Better. Zaza? Better. Okur? Kaman? Gasol Jr? Better, better, way better.

Do you know why? Because Marcin Gortat is Herb Williams. He's a backup player who averaged 13.1 minutes per game during the regular season and a paltry 2 minutes more in the postseason. 3-4 points per game and 4 boards in 15 minutes per game is not enough for anyone to be considered for the top anything at any position. It just isn't.

Further, there's a reason why Lee's listed at center here:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/C

Here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2772

And as a Forward-Center here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3956

And here:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/player/david-lee/339191

But hey, if none of this is enough for you, perhaps you should write the NBA, who selected him and listed him at Center for the All-Star game:

http://www.nba.com/allstar2010/players/

In a delicious twist of irony as well, you'll notice Ama're and Gasol on there as well...at, you guessed it, Center. Guess why they were selected? Because they're F/C's who play a ton of the position. All better than Marcin Gortat. In an even BETTER twist, you'll also see Chris Kaman. Who for some reason isn't better than Dwight Howard's backup because, well, we don't really know other than your claim of "no, not anymore." Regardless of the fact that he made his first all-star team and had a career year in scoring with 9.2 boards a game to boot.

But back to the man of the hour. Do you know why David Lee made the All-Star team as a Center? Do you know why he's listed and ranked as a Center on a ton of sites? It's because David Lee plays a lot of center. Big men on some teams play center, and on others they play power forward. You don't need to be a pure center to be compared as a player at the position, and you don't need to be some sort of self-appointed guru to know this. The Kobe/Wade equivalence is dumb. Both see minimal time at the position. I could say that you're basically saying that we're never allowed to compare Monta Ellis to Deron Williams. But even that's not enough of how bad the equivalence is considering how big men get moved around in frontcourts compared to guards or swingmen.

The only lesson learned here is you are completely clueless when it comes to basketball. Stick to movies.

I'll do both. And guess what? I'll do it better than Marcin Gortat.

[InstantClassic]

It's not an issue of can't, it's just been a question of whether or not it's even worth the time because it's pretty clear where all your posts tend to venture, as evidenced in your dumb recant to Hector in the Knicks having "nothing to offer the Hornets," (everything Magic is teh awesome! Everything everyone else is teh dumb).

I don't know what to tell you. David Lee played Center last season. He made the All-Star team as a Center (but we'll get to that in a second). He played the position pretty much much full-time. Better than Marcin Gortat. The fact that you're claiming this isn't true is quite perplexing. Al Jefferson, though likely moving to PF with Okur at the 5 in Utah, played a significant amount of time at center in Minnesota. And guess what? He did it better than Marcin Gortat. Players who are PF's on some teams play Center on others. It's pretty common, and it's shocking that someone who is as all-knowing as you doesn't know this very simple aspect of the game. Ama're Stoudamire has seen an absurd amount of time at the position, and probably still will in NY. And guess what? He'll play it better than Marcin Gortat. Joakim Noah plays a ton of time at center. Better than Marcin Gortat. Pau Gasol when he's at the position? Better than Marcin Gortat. Bynum? Better than Marcin Gortat. Aging Brad Miller? Still better than Marcin Gortat. Krstic? Better. Zaza? Better. Okur? Kaman? Gasol Jr? Better, better, way better.

Do you know why? Because Marcin Gortat is Herb Williams. He's a backup player who averaged 13.1 minutes per game during the regular season and a paltry 2 minutes more in the postseason. 3-4 points per game and 4 boards in 15 minutes per game is not enough for anyone to be considered for the top anything at any position. It just isn't.

Further, there's a reason why Lee's listed at center here:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/C

Here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2772

And as a Forward-Center here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3956

And here:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/player/david-lee/339191

But hey, if none of this is enough for you, perhaps you should write the NBA, who selected him and listed him at Center for the All-Star game:

http://www.nba.com/allstar2010/players/

In a delicious twist of irony as well, you'll notice Ama're and Gasol on there as well...at, you guessed it, Center. Guess why they were selected? Because they're F/C's who play a ton of the position. All better than Marcin Gortat. In an even BETTER twist, you'll also see Chris Kaman. Who for some reason isn't better than Dwight Howard's backup because, well, we don't really know other than your claim of "no, not anymore." Regardless of the fact that he made his first all-star team and had a career year in scoring with 9.2 boards a game to boot.

But back to the man of the hour. Do you know why David Lee made the All-Star team as a Center? Do you know why he's listed and ranked as a Center on a ton of sites? It's because David Lee plays a lot of center. Big men on some teams play center, and on others they play power forward. You don't need to be a pure center to be compared as a player at the position, and you don't need to be some sort of self-appointed guru to know this. The Kobe/Wade equivalence is dumb. Both see minimal time at the position. I could say that you're basically saying that we're never allowed to compare Monta Ellis to Deron Williams. But even that's not enough of how bad the equivalence is considering how big men get moved around in frontcourts compared to guards or swingmen.

I'll do both. And guess what? I'll do it better than Marcin Gortat.

You mean the same "dumb recant" that was posted in an ESPN article..with people that are paid to to report while you make outlandish claims that say otherwise?

Before I can even get past your first paragraph of trash..you rear your ugly head and in typical fashion go in to your interwebz know it all persona. No one thinks your cool because of it, and it won't make you popular with any of the people you know in reality.

It's okay to be wrong, nobody here knows you. You can get through your day knowing people won't stop and snicker at you because of your lack of knowledge of the sport. David Lee is not a center. He is a PF..as is Gasol, as is Amare.

The fact is Gortat could start on any number of teams in the league, due to the fact he sits behind the best Center in basketball limits his numbers..but if you look at his per 48 stats he ranks in the top 10 of PURE centers in the game..none of the hybrid **** you try and pull.

While you continue to throw your bull**** around..i'll still wait on that list.

[RutgersJetFan]

David Lee is not a center. He is a PF.

Except he started at center. He played the season at center. He was listed at center. He played every game of the season at center. And he made the All-Star game as a center. But yeah, let's just go with that because you say so.

Golden State? Different story. New York? Center. Sorry, but you don't get to play the aren't-you-supposed-to-be-a-knick-fan card and get away with that one. Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong wrong.

as is Gasol, as is Amare.

Tell you what, let's survey 1,439 NBA fans and ask them who they'd rather have playing center on their team if they had the choice. Ama're Stoudemire, Pau Gasol, or Marcin Gortat. You can even include on the survey question, "even though the first 2 have played PF depending on the system and roster." If Gortat wins even 10% of that vote, I will pay you one hundred billion dollars.

The fact is Gortat could start on any number of teams in the league due to the fact he sits behind the best Center in basketball limits his numbers..but if you look at his per 48 stats <snip>

Ah yes, the extrapolation argument. He doesn't play because there's someone ahead of him who's better limiting his numbers that are good if I multiply them by 4. This proves his greatness at the position. Brilliant logic. By this measure, Nate Robinson should get credit for the 21 and 6 he put up behind Rondo and be ranked right up in the second tier of PG's in the league with guys like Davis and Harris.

I wonder why he doesn't?

Oh, wait, I know. Maybe it's because he's not a starter, he didn't put up those numbers in reality, and relying on ranking a player by his numbers as a backup, projected as a starter, is nothing short of ridiculous.

he ranks in the top 10 of PURE centers in the game..none of the hybrid **** you try and pull.

Now it's just the top 10? What happened to the insanely blind number of top 5-7? What, 13 minutes per game only makes you eligible for the 8-10 slot?

While you continue to throw your bull**** around..i'll still wait on that list.

Which list would that be? The list of players that I already mentioned or a new list of players that you're just going to refuse to acknowledge anyways? Even with the points on Kaman (cough! 2010 All-Star. cough!) you're still playing the angry retard card. So what's the point?

But hey, you're 4 for 4 on the count for bad sports arguments. Lies, (David Lee doesn't play center!), statistical reaches, (Gortat only plays 1 quarter's worth per game, but if you multiply that by 4, he's elite!), playing the Arthur Spooner card, (oh yeah, well you know nothing about basketball!), and, when all else fails, take refuge in the semantic.

[dbatesman]

But hey, you're 4 for 4 on the count for bad sports arguments.

Extrapolate that across a year's worth of posts and he's, like, a 52-time POTW winner.

[RutgersJetFan]

Extrapolate that across a year's worth of posts and he's, like, a 52-time POTW winner.

Too bad dolphann4life is ahead of him as a starter. At least we have Kleckologic to get us by.

[Klecko73isGod]

Too bad dolphann4life is ahead of him as a starter. At least we have Kleckologic to get us by.

You can take that Klecklogic BS and shove it up your ****ing ass. Marcin Gortat? Are you ****ing kidding me? Dude's name might as well be Player To Be Named Later.

[JohnnyHector]

The fact is Gortat could start on any number of teams in the league, due to the fact he sits behind the best Center in basketball limits his numbers..

I made this same argument in predicting Matthew Hatchette to be a beast when he came to the Jets after having been "stuck" behind Randy Moss and Chris Carter in Minnesota.

[JohnnyHector]

Too bad dolphann4life is ahead of him as a starter. At least we have Kleckologic to get us by.

The proper term is Klogic.

Carry on.

[dolphann4life]

Bleep Marcin Gortat!

[RutgersJetFan]

Back on topic: So here's a good scouting report on Mozgov. Between him and Ama're it looks like Donnie's finally giving him the pieces to really run the offense the way it needs to be with a firm commitment to pick and roll-oriented players. I don't think we'll see a ton of him at first as it looks like he has a ton of work to do defensively (Boston and Miami would have a field day with him running baseline).

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/27/overseas-scouting-report-timofey-mozgov/

[JohnnyHector]

Back on topic: So here's a good scouting report on Mozgov. Between him and Ama're it looks like Donnie's finally giving him the pieces to really run the offense the way it needs to be with a firm commitment to pick and roll-oriented players. I don't think we'll see a ton of him at first as it looks like he has a ton of work to do defensively (Boston and Miami would have a field day with him running baseline).

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/27/overseas-scouting-report-timofey-mozgov/

I had watched video after the signing and was pretty impressed with Mozgov's movement and awareness on the offensive end.

I think Felton will be the key to this season... although I'm excited to see what he can do when not being shackled by Larry Brown, he's not known as a great pick-and-roll PG and his shooting has been spotty in the past. If he takes a big step forward, I think they're a lock for the playoffs (barring any major injuries).

[Falcon63]

lolknicks

[InstantClassic]

Except he started at center. He played the season at center. He was listed at center. He played every game of the season at center. And he made the All-Star game as a center. But yeah, let's just go with that because you say so.

Golden State? Different story. New York? Center. Sorry, but you don't get to play the aren't-you-supposed-to-be-a-knick-fan card and get away with that one. Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong wrong.

Tell you what, let's survey 1,439 NBA fans and ask them who they'd rather have playing center on their team if they had the choice. Ama're Stoudemire, Pau Gasol, or Marcin Gortat. You can even include on the survey question, "even though the first 2 have played PF depending on the system and roster." If Gortat wins even 10% of that vote, I will pay you one hundred billion dollars.

Ah yes, the extrapolation argument. He doesn't play because there's someone ahead of him who's better limiting his numbers that are good if I multiply them by 4. This proves his greatness at the position. Brilliant logic. By this measure, Nate Robinson should get credit for the 21 and 6 he put up behind Rondo and be ranked right up in the second tier of PG's in the league with guys like Davis and Harris.

I wonder why he doesn't?

Oh, wait, I know. Maybe it's because he's not a starter, he didn't put up those numbers in reality, and relying on ranking a player by his numbers as a backup, projected as a starter, is nothing short of ridiculous.

Now it's just the top 10? What happened to the insanely blind number of top 5-7? What, 13 minutes per game only makes you eligible for the 8-10 slot?

Which list would that be? The list of players that I already mentioned or a new list of players that you're just going to refuse to acknowledge anyways? Even with the points on Kaman (cough! 2010 All-Star. cough!) you're still playing the angry retard card. So what's the point?

But hey, you're 4 for 4 on the count for bad sports arguments. Lies, (David Lee doesn't play center!), statistical reaches, (Gortat only plays 1 quarter's worth per game, but if you multiply that by 4, he's elite!), playing the Arthur Spooner card, (oh yeah, well you know nothing about basketball!), and, when all else fails, take refuge in the semantic.

So what your saying is because the New York Knicks were terrible..they started a 6'8 PF at center and we should just all acknowledge that is his position?? What position did he play in college? What position would he be playing had the Knicks not been a joke, with no depth because they were mortgaging the future for another PF..Amare? Sorry..your team's shortcomings don't change a player's position.

Surveying people on that would be pointless..I would rather have Amare starting at center on my team than Gortat..Never said he was a world beater..but he's a top 7 true center in the NBA.

You claimed you had an additional list of players..all that were better CENTERS than Marcin Gortat..I would love to see this list. We both know it doesn't exist..try and keep other positions off of that list. You don't know anything about basketball..and it's funny because you try and act smart..yet when you are asked to produce a list of CENTERS in the league you can't.

I expect another long, boring, irrelevant post from you about how David Lee played center for an inept roster full of d-league players..which makes you an expert on the center position in the NBA...as well as you beating around the bush and not providing the list you so proudly thumped your chest about earlier on.