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D'Brick signs D'Extension!!!


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You cant be serious slats. :face:

Tra Thomas played for Jax last year. And even if this was accurate...If Jake Long or Joe Thomas are the best in the biz, DBrick is 1.5 sacks worse...lol.

I just said he's not special, not that he sucks. Like I said, I'm glad the Jets signed him to a relatively inexpensive deal. By the time this extension kicks in, it will look modest by comparison to the deals that get done in the meantime.

Here's an article on the overratedness of the LT position from a couple years ago:

Why The Left Tackle Is Overrated

By KC Joyner

Many of you probably are familiar with Michael Lewis' book "The Blind Side." It recounts a young player's struggles to adapt to his new environment. From a football perspective, Lewis paints a compelling picture of how valuable the left tackle is to NFL teams.

As excellent as Lewis' research was, after reading the book, I still had some doubt as to the real value of the left tackle. I understood how much it meant to Bill Walsh to have someone capable of blocking Lawrence Taylor. I also had a better understanding of why left tackles are paid so much. But I still didn't have a good sense of how much more valuable a left tackle is than, say, a right guard.

So, what is the real value of the left tackle? I dedicated the lead chapter of my new book, "Blindsided: Why the Left Tackle is Overrated and Other Contrarian Football Thoughts," to that very subject. In the book, I detailed both run and pass blocking analyses, but for the sake of brevity, I can summarize the run blocking portion by saying the metrics show left tackles by themselves don't have a significant effect on the running game.

That really isn't surprising, and it isn't the reason posited by Lewis as to why left tackles are paid a premium. Their perceived value is in the passing game, so I looked at the effect left tackles have by using pass blocking metrics derived from "Scientific Football 2006." Since I have the updated 2007 pass blocking metrics for "Scientific Football 2008," I thought it would be interesting to pair some of the comparative methods used in "Blindsided" with this past year's totals.

The starting point was looking at how many total sacks each team allowed and how many sacks the left tackle(s) on those teams allowed. Here are the 2007 totals in those categories.

Rank, Team, Sacks Allowed, Left Tackle Sacks Allowed

1. Saints 16 3

2. Bengals 17 5.5

T3. Browns 19 2

T3. Packers 19 4

5. Patriots 21 5.5

6. Texans 22 8

7. Colts 23 5.5

T8. Cardinals 24 1.5

T8. Chargers 24 8.5

10. Cowboys 25 1

11. Buffalo 26 5

12. Giants 28 12.5

13. Redskins 29 6

14. Titans 30 4.5

15. Jaguars 31 6.5

16. Broncos 32 3.5

17. Panthers 33 8.5

T18. Bucs 36 4

T18. Seahawks 36 5.5

20. Vikings 38 7

21. Ravens 39 2

22. Raiders 41 10

23. Dolphins 42 3

24. Bears 43 8

T25. Falcons 47 4.5

T25. Steelers 47 9

27. Rams 48 2.5

28. Eagles 49 10

29. Jets 53 8.5

30. Lions 54 14

T31. 49ers 55 10.5

T31. Chiefs 55 9.5

The rank column is important for reasons I will explain in just a moment, so please keep it in the back of your mind.

The next step was to look at the percentage of team sacks each left tackle gave up. The goal was to see which left tackles were weak pass-blockers in comparison with the rest of their team's offensive line.

The interesting part of the review came when I resorted the charts by the left tackle sack percentage but left the original team sack total rankings in place (the rankings I mentioned a couple of lines back). Here's what the chart looks like when resorted.

Rank, Team, Sacks Allowed, LT Sacks Allowed, LT % Of Total Sacks

10. Cowboys 25 1 4.0%

21. Ravens 39 2 5.1%

27. Rams 48 2.5 5.2%

T8. Cardinals 24 1.5 6.3%

23. Dolphins 42 3 7.1%

T25. Falcons 47 4.5 9.6%

T3. Browns 19 2 10.5%

16. Broncos 32 3.5 10.9%

T18. Bucs 36 4 11.1%

14. Titans 30 4.5 15.0%

T18. Seahawks 36 5.5 15.3%

29. Jets 53 8.5 16.0%

T31. Chiefs 55 9.5 17.3%

20. Vikings 38 7 18.4%

24. Bears 43 8 18.6%

1. Saints 16 3 18.8%

T31. 49ers 55 10.5 19.1%

T25. Steelers 47 9 19.1%

11. Bills 26 5 19.2%

28. Eagles 49 10 20.4%

13. Redskins 29 6 20.7%

15. Jaguars 31 6.5 21.0%

T3. Packers 19 4 21.1%

7. Colts 23 5.5 23.9%

22. Raiders 41 10 24.4%

17. Panthers 33 8.5 25.8%

30. Lions 54 14 25.9%

5. Patriots 21 5.5 26.2%

2. Bengals 17 5.5 32.4%

T8. Chargers 24 8.5 35.4%

6. Texans 22 8 36.4%

12. Giants 28 12.5 44.6%

This shows that many teams with bad pass blocking lines have very good left tackles, or they at least have left tackles who give up few sacks relative to the rest of the offensive line. For example: Miami, Baltimore and St. Louis all finished 21st or worst in overall sacks and allowed a combined 129 sacks, yet their left tackles were responsible for only 7.5 of those sacks.

There also is an interesting trend for some of the teams near the bottom of the list. Cincinnati, San Diego and Houston all finished in the top eight in sacks allowed, having given up only 63 sacks among them. That means that in general, their players were good pass-blockers. However, their left tackles struggled mightily, giving up 22 of those 63 sacks.

The conclusion I came to in "Blindsided" is that this occurs because defenses choose the path of shortest distance as often as possible when pass rushing. If the offense has a pass blocking weakness at any of the guard or center positions, the defense's plan always will be to target those players first because that is the quickest route to the quarterback. That's what happened in the cases of the Dolphins, Ravens and Rams.

When the up-the-middle option is not available because of good interior blocking, defenses then target the next-fastest route, which typically is around the left tackle. The Bengals, Chargers and Texans all had solid blocking up the middle, and that is why their left tackles were tested.

That latter example is the only case in which a really good pass-blocking left tackle helps, but it still doesn't take an elite left tackle to win the Super Bowl. For proof of this, just look at the Giants and their left tackle last year, David Diehl. He gave up 12.5 sacks, the second-most by any left tackle, and New York still was able to go all the way.

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That's not what I asked. I want to know how they are determining an "allowed sack."

I've been asking this question online for four years now and no one has been able to answer it.

I assume it's a one on one situation and that player gets beat, but I haven't got a clue.

I'll email them, hell we all should maybe someone will get a reply.

My apologies-

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That's not what I asked. I want to know how they are determining an "allowed sack."

I've been asking this question online for four years now and no one has been able to answer it.

In the meantime, how about you prove why D'Brick is so great, and the LT position is so important.

Thanks.

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In the meantime, how about you prove why D'Brick is so great, and the LT position is so important.

Thanks.

First off, that article proved to me nothing and author contradicts himself a couple of times.

Secondly, go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good LT is...tell me what he says.

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First off, that article proved to me nothing and author contradicts himself a couple of times.

Secondly, go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good LT is...tell me what he says.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good center is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good RT is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good LG is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good RG is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good tailback is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good FB is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good TE is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good #1 WR is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good #2 WR is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good defense is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez if he will consider dumping Meadow Soprano for Max.

The point: I'm sure he'd say how important any position on the team is if asked.

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Good signing.

Puts to bed the myths that the Jets won't re-sign their own players and the idiotically silly suggestion that the Jets can't lock up anyone this year because their multi-billionaire owner suddenly doesn't have enough money to sign any of his star football players to extensions.

If a contract is likely to fit under the reasonably assumed low-ball levels of a future salary cap, the Jets will lock the player up. If it's likely to be a problem (like $16.3M for a CB) they'll maintain the status quo on those players' deals. This owner has faults, but one I haven't seen is the lack of a willingness to pay big-time money for big-time players. If there is no salary cap, expect the Jets to be one of the teams who spend wildly (but also expect beers at the game to be $17.50).

My guess is Mangold gets signed next. Revis is locked up for the 3 upcoming seasons while Mangold is only under contract for this season, and Revis has (allegedly) made unrealistic demands so far. Mangold's average salary on an extension is probably easier to slot, somewhere around an $8M average per. Could go either way, though, depending on the players and their agents.

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Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good center is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good RT is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good LG is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good RG is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good tailback is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good FB is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good TE is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good #1 WR is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good #2 WR is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good defense is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez if he will consider dumping Meadow Soprano for Max.

The point: I'm sure he'd say how important any position on the team is if asked.

It's possible that Mark might be gay, but I assure you he's not that gay. No man is.

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Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good center is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good RT is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good LG is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good RG is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good tailback is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good FB is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good TE is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good #1 WR is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good #2 WR is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good defense is.

Go ask Mark Sanchez if he will consider dumping Meadow Soprano for Max.

The point: I'm sure he'd say how important any position on the team is if asked.

Jeez...nevermind...thanks for that though. Very helpful. :roll:

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In the meantime, how about you prove why D'Brick is so great, and the LT position is so important.

Thanks.

Answer the question. You made a claim that D'Brick gave up more sacks than 14 other LTs last year and I want to know how you came about that number?

You're basing a lot of your argument on a completely made up stat that is impossible to quantify.

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First off, that article proved to me nothing and author contradicts himself a couple of times.

Secondly, go ask Mark Sanchez how important a good LT is...tell me what he says.

There are a lot of cliches in football, and that "blind side protector" is one of them, again - IMHO. Defenses can neutralize a high end LT simply by rushing their best defender from somewhere else on the field.

Brick is a good player, and I'm glad he's under contract. But I will not be agreeing anytime soon about the perceived importance of the position he plays. It's been overrated and overstated far too many times for people to change their minds about it.

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In the meantime, how about you prove why D'Brick is so great, and the LT position is so important.

Thanks.

Dwight Freeney or someone of that elk breaks past our LT unblocked, and not only sacks our QB, he knocks him out for 3-6 weeks because he came untouched on the blind side.

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Answer the question. You made a claim that D'Brick gave up more sacks than 14 other LTs last year and I want to know how you came about that number?

You're basing a lot of your argument on a completely made up stat that is impossible to quantify.

I just threw that out there based on the numbers I posted, but it looks like they're from 2008. Doesn't matter, though, I continue to believe whole-heartedly that the LT position is not nearly as important as fans and the media try to make it out to be. That's my claim.

You want me to prove my position, but you offer no proof to back up yours. Why should I continue to bother if you're not willing to put in any effort?

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I assume it's a one on one situation and that player gets beat, but I haven't got a clue.

I'll email them, hell we all should maybe someone will get a reply.

My apologies-

The problem is that scenario only happens a couple of times per game.

What about when the LT is assigned to pull out to protect a QB on a roll out and the DE stunts to the inside and catches the QB from behind while the LT is effectively blocking the LB?

What about the times the DE stunts to the inside and the LT effectively picks up the DT but the G misses and DE gets the sack? Are they charging that to the LT because of where they lined up?

What about when the LT pulls back to protect the QB expecting a 5-step drop and QB screws up and takes a 7-step drop and the DE or OLB take advantage of the fact that they can see the QB and make the adjustment that the LT can't make because his back is to the QB? Is that charged to the LT or the QB? How does the stat taker know the QB screwed up? To the naked eye the LT got beat but that isn't the case now is it?

In '07 Ferguson was ripped in several places for giving up too many sacks and then after the season Clemens admitted he had a bad habit of taking a deeper drop than he was supposed to which led to several sacks.

My point is that some people seem to put a lot of weight to a stat that is impossible to accurately quantify unless you are privy to information none of us will ever have.

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There are a lot of cliches in football, and that "blind side protector" is one of them, again - IMHO. Defenses can neutralize a high end LT simply by rushing their best defender from somewhere else on the field.

Brick is a good player, and I'm glad he's under contract. But I will not be agreeing anytime soon about the perceived importance of the position he plays. It's been overrated and overstated far too many times for people to change their minds about it.

Well, I think the league, owners, coaches and players disagree with you and its why LT's continually get drafted at the top of the draft with, you guessed it, the guys they protect ;-)

I think you have an agenda and are failing to see the truth. LT in a passing league is extremely important. Much more important than a CB.

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I just threw that out there based on the numbers I posted, but it looks like they're from 2008. Doesn't matter, though, I continue to believe whole-heartedly that the LT position is not nearly as important as fans and the media try to make it out to be. That's my claim.

You want me to prove my position, but you offer no proof to back up yours. Why should I continue to bother if you're not willing to put in any effort?

First of all, you are the one who brought it up, not me.

Secondly, currently you are desperately trying to change the subject on me because you can't answer my question.

Third, I'll make a deal with you, answer my question and then I'll answer yours.

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Another good "the LT is over-hyped" article:

No need to reach for a left tackle

THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS

Updated May 26, 2010 11:01 PM ET

In winning the Super Bowl, New Orleans proved a point that could serve the Cowboys well in tonight's first round of the three-day NFL draft.

Offensive left tackle has become the most over-hyped position in the league.

With the release of Flozell Adams, the Cowboys are undergoing a change at left tackle. The Saints' experience shows the Cowboys that they do not have to panic. The left tackle alone does not make or break an offense.

Look at the Saints.

They won a championship last season with a plugger at left tackle. Jermon Bushrod had been active for only two games in the previous two seasons when pushed into the lineup because of a preseason injury to starter Jammal Brown.

The Saints did not suffer for it. New Orleans scored a league-high 510 points, fourth-highest total in the decade. The Saints allowed only 30 sacks, tying for the 10th-lowest total in the league.

How did the Saints do it? By having a sharp offensive coaching staff and a nimble quarterback in Drew Brees.

The offensive game plan gave pass-protection help to Bushrod as often as possible. Brees made quick decisions and rapid throws.

"Our coaches do a great job each week of coming up with great schemes that put me in a good position to be successful," Bushrod said in a pre-Super Bowl conversation. "I don't care who you are. One player is not going to be able to block [pass-rushers] like Julius Peppers, Trent Cole and Jared Allen all by himself. It has to be a combination of things: great coaches, great schemes, a great quarterback who gets the ball out. It all helps."

For the Cowboys, that means all the pressure does not rest with Adams' successor. Offensive coordinator Jason Garrett and offensive line coach Hudson Houck must find ways to assist the next left tackle, be it Doug Free or a draft choice. And quarterback Tony Romo must be nimble and understanding.

Bushrod said an early-season conversation with Brees was helpful. According to Bushrod, Brees told him to "play your butt off, but you're going to get beat from time to time. It's up to me to get rid of the ball."

The Saints' success with Bushrod was not a fluke.

The New York Giants won the Super Bowl in the 2007 season with a left tackle, David Diehl, who finished second in the league for most sacks allowed during the regular season with 101/2. When New England won Super Bowls in the 2001, '03 and'04 seasons, its left tackle (Matt Light) did not make a Pro Bowl.

Consider Bushrod's opposite in the Super Bowl: Indianapolis left tackle Charlie Johnson, of Sherman. Johnson, the 199th pick of the 2006 draft, took over the position after Tony Ugoh flopped. Ugoh was the 42nd pick in the 2007 draft.

Baltimore, in the 2000 season, was the last Super Bowl winner to have a decorated left tackle in Jonathan Ogden. [slats - think about that, probably the least effective offense in Super Bowl Championship history] Since then, the nine Super Bowl champions have used six starting left tackles who have a combined six career Pro Bowl appearances.

Cowboys owner-general manager Jerry Jones vacillated on the issue. At first, he stayed with conventional thinking and insisted left tackle is not an overrated position, that quality teams needed a big-time left tackle.

A few minutes later, Jones admitted to noticing what New Orleans did at left tackle on the way to the Super Bowl and how that influenced his preparations for the coming season.

"There's a case in point," Jones said of the Saints' offensive line. "You've got somebody proving they can play at a level and probably has some plusses, and all of the sudden you've got the making of a decision."

The decision should be easy. When it comes to left tackles, don't believe the hype. Especially on draft day.

Part of the production

The offensive left tackles for the top-scoring teams in the NFL last season:

Team Points Player SA* New Orleans 510 Jarmon Bushrod 71/2 Minnesota 470 Bryant McKinnie 9 Green Bay 461 3 starters 111/2 San Diego 454 Marcus McNeill 5 Philadelphia 429 Jason Peters 6 *Sacks allowed

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While I can understand some people's stance on this debate vs. slats, from an argument standpoint this is just plain ridiculous. You can't challenge a guy's stance and when he provides the supporting information you asked for, completely disregard, but expect your stance to hold up because you say so.

Sure the sacks allowed stat isn't foolproof, very few (if any) stats in the NFL are, but other than just completely ignoring it, what stance can you take that says it's reflecting more poorly on Brick in an unfair manner than any other LT in the NFL? Don't they have to deal with all of the same inequities of that stat as he does?

Keep in mind, I'm a fan of Brick and really liked this signing, but let's be realistic here, the guy has had some struggles in his career and not everyone is going to be 100% sold.

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I think you have an agenda and are failing to see the truth. LT in a passing league is extremely important. Much more important than a CB.

What would my agenda be? It's just an opinion.

In a passing league, I think the greatest CB to maybe ever play the game is more important than a decent LT - easily.

First of all, you are the one who brought it up, not me.

Secondly, currently you are desperately trying to change the subject on me because you can't answer my question.

Third, I'll make a deal with you, answer my question and then I'll answer yours.

Dude, I did answer. I told you I grabbed some numbers that were listed as 2009 numbers, but it looks like they were 2008 numbers. That's all. If I find some good 2009 numbers, I'll post them. Feel free to do the same.

Doesn't change my position about the importance of Brick to the Jets, or left tackle in general.

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What would my agenda be? It's just an opinion.

In a passing league, I think the greatest CB to maybe ever play the game is more important than a decent LT - easily.

Dude, I did answer. I told you I grabbed some numbers that were listed as 2009 numbers, but it looks like they were 2008 numbers. That's all. If I find some good 2009 numbers, I'll post them. Feel free to do the same.

Doesn't change my position about the importance of Brick to the Jets, or left tackle in general.

I thought you were on vacation this week? Too busy living life to play my mafia game... but not too busy to debate this ridiculous little sports news crawler item???

I'm offended.

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What would my agenda be? It's just an opinion.

In a passing league, I think the greatest CB to maybe ever play the game is more important than a decent LT - easily.

Your opinion has turned into an agenda. You've posted 2 articles now and you keep saying your never going to change my mind....which sounds like an agenda...not an opinion. One article had contradictions all over the place and the other really supports what we've been saying. DBrick is even more important cuz he's blocking for someone not named Manning, Brees, Brady or Rothlisraper.

Whatever. No biggie. We agree to disagree.

IMO a LT is much more important to a Football team than a CB. You win game and lose games at the LOS. And this Revis the goat talk, didnt start until Rex Ryan came around. He was just a solid CB with Mangini.

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Your opinion has turned into an agenda. You've posted 2 articles now and you keep saying your never going to change my mind....which sounds like an agenda...not an opinion. One article had contradictions all over the place and the other really supports what we've been saying. DBrick is even more important cuz he's blocking for someone not named Manning, Brees, Brady or Rothlisraper.

Whatever. No biggie. We agree to disagree.

IMO a LT is much more important to a Football team than a CB. You win game and lose games at the LOS. And this Revis the goat talk, didnt start until Rex Ryan came around. He was just a solid CB with Mangini.

an opinion that you express to others is an agenda by definition

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I thought you were on vacation this week? Too busy living life to play my mafia game... but not too busy to debate this ridiculous little sports news crawler item???

I'm offended.

The kids went back to their mother for the night. I can promise you that I will not be re-reading this thread the way I'd be re-reading your game! :mrgreen:

Your opinion has turned into an agenda. You've posted 2 articles now and you keep saying your never going to change my mind....which sounds like an agenda...not an opinion. One article had contradictions all over the place and the other really supports what we've been saying. DBrick is even more important cuz he's blocking for someone not named Manning, Brees, Brady or Rothlisraper.

Whatever. No biggie. We agree to disagree.

IMO a LT is much more important to a Football team than a CB. You win game and lose games at the LOS. And this Revis the goat talk, didnt start until Rex Ryan came around. He was just a solid CB with Mangini.

I agree, no biggie.

It's only "my agenda," because I've felt this way about the position for some time. Pass protection is the job of a unit, not one player. Especially in today's NFL as defenses become more and more sophisticated. A high end LT is neutralized by rushing the passer with your best rushers from other places on the field. This will probably be the plan for the Jets this year - lining Vernon Gholston up on the opposition's LT each week. :P

And this was only Revis' third year. People were catching on to how great he was as a sophomore in Mangini's defense. Rex just brought it to the forefront by pushing the player's limits every week.

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D'Brickashaw deal raises several interesting questions

Posted by Mike Florio on July 7, 2010 3:42 PM ET

Florio Jr. has rock camp this week, where he and several other young musicians are preparing for a July 21 concert at which they'll rip it up to the tune of Detroit Rock City and Walk This Way, among others. (Last year, it was Frankenstein.)

So I picked him up and we went to lunch just as the news broke on the D'Brickashaw Ferguson deal. Rosenthal did the heavy lifting on the details (as if anything we ever do requires the lifting of anything heavier than our fingers). And I'm compelled to chime in, now that the hot turkey sub from Chunki's has begun to digest.

The development raises a few questions for me.

1. Will the numbers come in as good as advertised?

Folks in the media typically get early contract numbers from the agents for the players. Though other agents and NFLPA sources eventually will have access to the information, typically it's only the team, the player, and the player's agent who know the financial figures when the deal is first done.

And as we've seen in the past, agents often pump up the numbers, and the reporters who get the scoops from the agents rarely if ever ask questions.

So we'll believe that Ferguson got a six-year, $60 million extension with $34.8 million guaranteed once we have a chance to pick over the terms of the contract and confirm it on our own.

2. Will the rest of the "Core Four" now get new deals?

When cornerback Darrelle Revis took his contractual discontent public, he pointed out that he and three other young players -- Ferguson, center Nick Mangold, and linebacker David Harris -- believe they'd been promised new deals.

So now that Ferguson has gotten a new deal, could it be that Revis and the others will follow?

The decision to start the process with Ferguson is confusing. He's got two years left on his rookie deal, and he wasn't publicly clamoring for a new contract. Besides, Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com reported in June that, of the "Core Four," only Revis would get a new contract before the finalization of a new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

In the wake of the development, one fact is clear -- the money paid to Ferguson won't make the other three guys any less inclined to look for new contracts of their own.

3. If collusion is happening, it's not unanimous.

The manner in which the Chargers have handled receiver Vincent Jackson and left tackle Marcus McNeill have caused us to wonder whether teams expressly or implicitly have agreed to not spend big money on veteran deals until a new labor contract has been negotiated. Any such agreement would amount to collusion.

The Jets' decision to give so much money (supposedly) to a guy who has two years left on his rookie deal shows that, if there's collusion, the Jets didn't get the memo.

It's possible that the Jets opted to disregard the subtle -- or otherwise -- messages, if any, aimed at getting owners to keep their millions in their pockets and out of the players' hands with a possible lockout approaching. Indeed, the Jets have become a renegade of sorts over the past year, with Rex Ryan's loquaciousness coaxing owner Woody Johnson to become a showman, of sorts.

4. What does Tom Brady think of this?

Ferguson's agent is Don Yee. Don Yee represents Tom Brady.

If the reports of $34.8 million in guaranteed money are accurate, Ferguson's deal significantly exceeds the contract that Brady will complete in the 2010 season. And that could make him even more determined to get top dollar from the Pats come 2011.

Which could make it even more likely that Brady will be getting top dollar from some other team instead.

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And this was only Revis' third year. People were catching on to how great he was as a sophomore in Mangini's defense. Rex just brought it to the forefront by pushing the player's limits every week.

I think he did more than just brought him to the forefront. I think he made him spectacular because he's that brilliant of a defensive mind. I'm sorry, there is no earthly way you are telling me that Revis has the opportunity to be the goat at CB with Mangini here...not a chance in hell.

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I think he did more than just brought him to the forefront. I think he made him spectacular because he's that brilliant of a defensive mind. I'm sorry, there is no earthly way you are telling me that Revis has the opportunity to be the goat at CB with Mangini here...not a chance in hell.

I'm a big fan of Rex, too, but if Nnamdi Asomugha can get himself in the conversation while playing for the Raiders then -yes- I think Revis could've gotten there in Mangini's yawn-but-don't-sleep dee.

If Revis gets hurt, the brilliant defensive mind that Rex is will completely change what they do on defense. There's not another CB on the team (and probably not in the league) that can do what Rex asks of Revis. You joked about us Revis dick smokers, but the reality is that Rex never gets off his knob long enough to give any of the rest of us a chance.

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What would my agenda be? It's just an opinion.

In a passing league, I think the greatest CB to maybe ever play the game is more important than a decent LT - easily.

Dude, I did answer. I told you I grabbed some numbers that were listed as 2009 numbers, but it looks like they were 2008 numbers. That's all. If I find some good 2009 numbers, I'll post them. Feel free to do the same.

Doesn't change my position about the importance of Brick to the Jets, or left tackle in general.

No you didn't. You haven't even attempted to answer it. My question is HOW were those sacks allowed numbers determined? How do they quantify someone allowing a sack?

This shouldn't be a difficult question to answer yet I've never gotten a straight answer to it in four years.

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Another article. People are starting to catch on about the overhypedness of the LT spot:

Left Tackle or Defensive Tackle - Which is More Important? This is one of the most common misjudgments in the NFL

There are those who believe that Matthew Stafford is the franchise future and that he needs to be protected at any cost. They say the Left Tackle is the most important position on the offensive line because he protects what is usually the quarterbacks blindside. If a defender breaks free on the right side, a right handed quarterback can see him come at him and thus has time to avoid the rush or throw the ball away. However, if the defender comes free from the left side, a right handed quarterback does not see him so easily, resulting in what is often a free shot on the QB by the defender. Often this causes the quarterback to fumble the ball and in worse case scenarios, to be injured. But how much impact does a Left Tackle make on the offense?

Of any group of positions in any sport, it is the most important for the offensive line on an NFL team to play as a unit. Four of the linemen can all make perfect blocks, but if any one of them fails at his job on any play, it can cause the whole play to fail. Only one man needs to miss his assignment and a defender will break through and go after the quarterback. The left tackle can make his block on a run play but if the left guard misses his, the play will be broken up unless the ball carrier makes an outstanding play to avoid the defender. It takes five guys to block for the quarterback and sometimes a fullback or tight end is added into the mix because five guys may not be enough.

The best left tackle in the game will keep the quarterback from being hit as often in the back, but the offense is only going to be as good as the five offensive linemen are together. For this reason, the offensive line only needs to have five good players who play well as a unit to be great rather than have star players on it. There is proof of this fact in the stats.

In 2009, of the four offensive lines who gave up the least amount of sacks, only two of them had even one player who was a first round draft pick. Only one of those was a left tackle. Of the seven best offensive lines, only two of them had left tackles drafted in the first round. Only one had more than one player drafted in the first round. Of the top four lines (20 players), there were only 7 players drafted in the 3rd round or earlier. 13 of them were drafted in the fourth round or later. Three of those were undrafted.

The defensive tackle on the other hand is not like that. The defensive linemen all will feed off of each other, but they are not dependent upon each other. In a 4-3 scheme, if three of the defensive linemen fail in their jobs, the fourth can still break through on his own and sack the quarterback, cause a fumble and make a game changing play. For this reason it is more important to have a great player on the defensive line, because he will need to make more plays on his own.

Of the 3 or 4 defensive linemen used in an NFL scheme, the defensive tackle is the most important. There are many who would argue this point because they see two facts. 1) The defensive ends get far more sacks. 2) The defensive ends usually get paid more. ... The reason for both of these is because people tend to view the flashy stats rather than look at the who scenario.

It is seldom that a defensive end is so good that he can rack up a lot of sacks in a season without strong defensive tackle play alongside of him. It is far more often the defensive tackle drawing a double team that allows the defensive end to get open and make plays. Yet the defensive tackles will make the whole defense better. Not just the defensive ends.

A great defensive tackle will control the interior of the line during running plays, giving the linebackers fewer lanes to fill to stop the run. This will often force the running backs to bounce the play outside towards the defensive ends or out of bounds. When a running back has to turn it outside because there is nowhere to go on the inside, it also gives the defensive backs more time to make their adjustments and come in to make the tackles. During pass plays the defensive tackles pressure up the middle will close up the pocket so the quarterbacks cannot step up, leaving them in the open as targets for the defensive ends or blitzing linebackers. Pressure on the quarterbacks will force them to get rid of the ball sooner than they would like, making it so the defensive backs do not have to cover the receivers for so long.

The play of a great defensive tackle will make the jobs of every other player on the defense much easier. He will open things up for the other players to make the flashy game changing plays like sacks and interceptions. He does all of this and that is when he is not actually breaking through and making some plays himself.

While the left tackle is important, a decent one will look good if the whole offensive line works as a unit. He does not however, make the whole offense better. He does not make any game changing plays. All he can do is give the quarterbacks and receivers more time and the running back a little more room. But that is only if the rest of the unit plays as well as he does.

The defensive tackle makes the whole defense better. He makes all of the other defensive players jobs easier. He can also make plenty of game changing plays of his own.

The defensive tackle may not usually get the big contracts like the left tackles or the defensive ends will, but a great defensive tackle will still do a lot more for the team than the other positions will.

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No you didn't. You haven't even attempted to answer it. My question is HOW were those sacks allowed numbers determined? How do they quantify someone allowing a sack?

This shouldn't be a difficult question to answer yet I've never gotten a straight answer to it in four years.

The same way they calculate it for every other lineman in the league.

I'm not going to play the game you like to play with trolls. Find someone else to play. If you want to back up your position, feel free. If you don't - that's fine, too.

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My points are simple. Revis wasnt Revis untill Rex got here. Rex makes Revis, Revis. Not the other way around.

i think we agree on 99% of this topic... here is where i disagree. Revis was a rookie when Mangini was here. It's specious logic to say Player X was a rookie under coach Y but when coach Z got here he was much better. it's highly possible he's much better regardless of the new coach. We don't know what Rex's schemes look like without a shut down corner. Even in BAL mcAlister was an elite player.

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