THE ILK Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The Giants won with Hostetler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I understand this argument, but it is completely hollow. Name a team that has won a Super Bowl with its best player — and, really, it isn't even close — sitting on the couch. It's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. NY Giants with Jeff Hostetler in SB 25...Second best player on the team was Simms behind perhaps the greatest defensive player in history-best player on his unit for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The Giants won with Hostetler. LT on the field for that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 NY Giants with Jeff Hostetler in SB 25...Second best player on the team was Simms behind perhaps the greatest defensive player in history-best player on his unit for sure Great minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The Giants won with Hostetler. beat me by 2 minutes as I was getting the facts right with SB # and his name's spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 NY Giants with Jeff Hostetler in SB 25...Second best player on the team was Simms behind perhaps the greatest defensive player in history-best player on his unit for sure LT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 LT on the field for that one? So what? They won with a back up QB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Which teams have won a Super Bowl with their unquestioned best player sitting at home. Just answer the question, man. And you still haven't provided a legit solution of how to handle the situation. Funny... You haven't provided a legit solution either, yet you call for me to have one. As far as a specific answer to your question, what you're asking me to do is to search football history for every Super Bowl participant, evaluate who their top players were, and look at their injury reports. I tell you what... If you want an answer to that, do the research, and show it to me, and I'll pick the teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistalava Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 In the history of the NFL, every Super Bowl has been won by a team who did not pay Darrelle Revis 16 million a year. It's not a stretch to think that this feat can be accomplished again. Seriously awesome wisdom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Funny... You haven't provided a legit solution either, yet you call for me to have one. As far as a specific answer to your question, what you're asking me to do is to search football history for every Super Bowl participant, evaluate who their top players were, and look at their injury reports. I tell you what... If you want an answer to that, do the research, and show it to me, and I'll pick the teams. My solution is to front-load a signing bonus and put clauses in the contract that would prevent a future holdout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 My solution is to front-load a signing bonus and put clauses in the contract that would prevent a future holdout. Yet you don't know if that will even fly under the new CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I understand this argument, but it is completely hollow. Name a team that has won a Super Bowl with its best player — and, really, it isn't even close — sitting on the couch. It's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Let's assume the Jets best player is Revis (I would put Mangold up there) - the question really is if he is the best player is it really necessary, ie. does the cb being the best player mean that he is indispensible or necessary. Can someone who isn't the best player but who is a good cb be enough to keep the team playing at a high level. I think so. You don't put ludicrous $$ into the CB position - it's a team philosophy. I understang the desire of Revis for wanting top $$$, but at the same time he should understand the dynamics of the team and not cripple its future. What is important that with Ryan they have a fighting chance no matter who is not playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 As far as a specific answer to your question, what you're asking me to do is to search football history for every Super Bowl participant, evaluate who their top players were, and look at their injury reports. I tell you what... If you want an answer to that, do the research, and show it to me, and I'll pick the teams. The point is you won't find one. Revis has GOAT written all over him. While Rex is talking a big game about masking his absence, you know what he's really thinking inside. Why else would he be peering into Revis' room? Making comments to Marty Schott about "just putting Revis on him and telling him to take his lunch." Revis is still in the front of his mind, as he knows the value he brings to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Okay. Again, we're only talking $4M a year, and that's the worst case. Calling that cap busting is patently absurd, IMHO. The easiest way to get around it is to hand out huge roster bonuses to Mangold and Harris. Unlike Revis, they're in camp now and can presumably be trusted not to hold out in two years after collecting a windfall this year. Cutting Gholston is a small savings in 2011, but a big savings in 2012. So between front loading two more of your core guys and cutting some dead weight, that $4M (maximum!) is easily made up. This argument defies logic, because you're NOT talking about $4 million. You're talking about an additional 4 million on top of a massive raise as it is. Let's look at the next three years, the years he is under contract as an example. Under his current deal, he would be paid $21 million. Under the $12 million / year proposal, he'd be making $36 million. That's already an additional $15 million over the next three years. If the Jets give into his demands as you suggest, that's another $12 million on top of that. So you're talking about an increase from $21 million to $48 million for the next three years and trying to say that it won't have a significant impact on the Jets ability to re-sign other players? I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 My solution is to front-load a signing bonus and put clauses in the contract that would prevent a future holdout. Since you seem to have such a strong opinion on the matter, let's see some actual numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 My solution is to front-load a signing bonus and put clauses in the contract that would prevent a future holdout. That's a great idea. Why would Revis sign something that prevents him from using his favorite negotiating tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 LT on the field for that one? Yup, LT was there, but more importantly that game was won "defensively". It was Giants over Broncos 26-10 heading into the 4th qtr. Probably wouldnt have been that way if their best player "LT" was on the couch saying "No Team has ever won a superbowl paying me what the G-men pay me". Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Revis has GOAT written all over him. You realize that GOAT stands for "Greatest Of All-Time", not "Greatest On All of Team", right? Sorry, but one All-Pro season does not an all-time great make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Since you seem to have such a strong opinion on the matter, let's see some actual numbers... I'm not a GM, dude. I'm a fan. But there's no salary cap this year, so the Jets are well within their rights to use that in their favor and throw BIG GUARANTEED money to lock up the best Jet since Joe Namath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I don't see it. You are clearly a patently absurd individual... though it's not like I needed this post to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You realize that GOAT stands for "Greatest Of All-Time", not "Greatest On All of Team", right? Sorry, but one All-Pro season does not an all-time great make... When was the last time a CB had that dominant a season? Do you think it was by accident? Come on, give the man some credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 LT? re read my post DJ-I said LT because he was the best defensive player maybe ever? Who else could I have meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 In fact, if Revis were to get hurt in a preseason game, I'd venture to say most people would be talking about or CB depth and about Rex's schemes being able to compensate and allow us to be a contender still. We'd be talking about Sanchez's improvement and the new offensive weapons. We'd be talking about Jason Taylor improving our pass rush making playing DB even easier this year. The fact is, it's the reason Revis is on the couch that makes all the difference in this argument... not that he is. The Super Bowl hype surrounding the Jets is way over the top as it is. There has to be real Sanchez improvement for them to be realistic at all - and that's with Revis in the mix. Of course if Darrelle were hurt, the inclination would be to rally the troops. But the CB depth is no better this year. We just swapped out Lito and Strickland for Cromartie and Wilson. Hopefully we've improved, but we're not deeper. Revis handles #1's by himself, Cromartie will need help with that role and we'll have a rookie starting on the other side. The Jets won't be able to blitz as often or effectively. The idea was to improve the secondary enough to beat the Colts of the world. Now we'd be depending on our offense to outscore the Colts of the world? Not a good situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 When was the last time a CB had that dominant a season? Do you think it was by accident? Come on, give the man some credit. Credit given, regardless he's not as important to the Jets as Aso is to the Raiders, or Bailey to the Broncos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The point is you won't find one. Revis has GOAT written all over him. While Rex is talking a big game about masking his absence, you know what he's really thinking inside. Why else would he be peering into Revis' room? Making comments to Marty Schott about "just putting Revis on him and telling him to take his lunch." Revis is still in the front of his mind, as he knows the value he brings to the team. No, the point is, you think you're being clever setting this little trap, but I'm way too smart to fall into it. You've defined something so narrow, and ultimately so opinion based, that there's no room for discussion. Two people instantly provided a great answer, the Giants winning with a back-up QB, but because of the narrow framework of your argument, you've declared yourself a victor again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You realize that GOAT stands for "Greatest Of All-Time", not "Greatest On All of Team", right? Sorry, but one All-Pro season does not an all-time great make... You're right, but when LT first turned it on for the Giants, you kinda knew that ultimately the "GOAT" was coming. When people seen Jim Brown play they kinda seen the "GOAT" coming. When people looked at Jerry Rice they kinda seen the "GOAT" coming, when they looked at Joe Montana they kinda seen the "GOAT" coming. Revis has that level of play that even it he lost so of it he'd still be the best in the league, but with what he's able to do right now if he keeps it up he'll be the greatest CB in the history of the game. He has the ability go years without a WR putting up 100+ yards & 2 TD's on him in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The Super Bowl hype surrounding the Jets is way over the top as it is. There has to be real Sanchez improvement for them to be realistic at all - and that's with Revis in the mix. Of course if Darrelle were hurt, the inclination would be to rally the troops. But the CB depth is no better this year. We just swapped out Lito and Strickland for Cromartie and Wilson. Hopefully we've improved, but we're not deeper. Revis handles #1's by himself, Cromartie will need help with that role and we'll have a rookie starting on the other side. The Jets won't be able to blitz as often or effectively. The idea was to improve the secondary enough to beat the Colts of the world. Now we'd be depending on our offense to outscore the Colts of the world? Not a good situation. Um... having Darrelle Revis did absolutely nothing to help us defeat the Colts of the world. You still have to outscore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 This argument defies logic, because you're NOT talking about $4 million. You're talking about an additional 4 million on top of a massive raise as it is. Let's look at the next three years, the years he is under contract as an example. Under his current deal, he would be paid $21 million. Under the $12 million / year proposal, he'd be making $36 million. That's already an additional $15 million over the next three years. If the Jets give into his demands as you suggest, that's another $12 million on top of that. So you're talking about an increase from $21 million to $48 million for the next three years and trying to say that it won't have a significant impact on the Jets ability to re-sign other players? I don't see it. You're a towel. The Jets have already agreed to $12M. So they presumably have that worked out. In a worst case scenario where they pay Revis his $16M, that's only $4M more than what they've already budgeted for. They can make adjustments to accomodate those additional $4M. Trying to inflate the numbers by multiple years doesn't alter that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war ensemble Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I dont hate the guy. I hated Herm. Rex is more embarrassing than anything. its like the Jets are being coached by a 12 year old..lol Meh. I would get them to the Super Bowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You're a towel. I don't have any idea what this means... but I completely agree... and I know him in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Credit given, regardless he's not as important to the Jets as Aso is to the Raiders, or Bailey to the Broncos. Do you take your cornflakes with acid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireJet38 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Um... having Darrelle Revis did absolutely nothing to help us defeat the Colts of the world. You still have to outscore them. Nope, Lowery, Coleman and Strickland did nothing to help. We have Cro and Wilson — clearly better alternatives — this time around. But it won't work without Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You're a towel. The Jets have already agreed to $12M. So they presumably have that worked out. In a worst case scenario where they pay Revis his $16M, that's only $4M more than what they've already budgeted for. They can make adjustments to accomodate those additional $4M. Trying to inflate the numbers by multiple years doesn't alter that. True but even you think that $16 per is too much no? MEvi$ is being unreasonable with this $160 million dollar contract demand, and he needs to come down or he will be sitting for quite some time. I'm not sure how losing the kind of money he's losing is going to be smart, especially when there will be no $16 million CB contracts to use as a comparable next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Um... having Darrelle Revis did absolutely nothing to help us defeat the Colts of the world. You still have to outscore them. Revis did his job. He held Reggie Wayne to 3 catches, 55 yards, no TD's. It was Garcon and Collie that killed the Jets' dee that day. The idea is to have Revis and his upgraded partners all on the field at the same time. Take him out, and the Reggie Wayne contributes to the beating the Jets took in the second half of that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWillie Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Yup, LT was there, but more importantly that game was won "defensively". It was Giants over Broncos 26-10 heading into the 4th qtr. Probably wouldnt have been that way if their best player "LT" was on the couch saying "No Team has ever won a superbowl paying me what the G-men pay me". Ridiculous. Ummm ... wrong Super Bowl, Chief. Hostetler played against the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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