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JonEJet

Darrelle Revis Holdout: MERGED

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agree on both points..

on other question, if revis my kid I would advice that 11-12 mill offer a good point to return to practice and sign between 12-14 depending on upfront cash

the only question is what's in the best interest of the Jets. does anyone seriously believe the Jets wouldn't give revis a big payday if it was good for the team?

would you want the Jets to make revis happy at the cost of hurting the organization in some other way (not being able to sign other players, the cap, whatever...)?

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In all seriousness, can you give me one reason that the Jets should believe if they give Revis a majority of his money in a sizable bonus and then give him lower base salaries that he won't hold out again in a few years when he's making only X number of dollars in salary? It's not a reasonable option for the Jets because Revis has proven himself untrustworthy.

If you wish to argue my points, please stop altering my words.

Never said majority of his money as a bonus. Just a healthy bonus. Something in the $15M range, with the next three years exactly as written, and a couple years added on at the end with guarantees voidable by the Jets if Revis opts to hold out again oughta do it.

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If Revis were your son, what would your advice to him be? Would you advise him to play for that $1M? Your son Revis might remind you how his friend Leon Washington bet on himself, got injured, and lost big time. He was in line to make multi-millions, and not will never see that kind of money. Would you want your kid to take that kind of risk, or would you want him to get some security up front first?

I know how I'd be advising my kid.

Slats.. I understand what you're saying but how much money is enough? This is a sport for crying out loud.. People work more important and dangerous jobs every day for less money... Revis needs to decide whats more important... Winning or being the highest paid player @ corner back.... We could always trade him to a crummy team like the Browns or Rams for two #1 picks and let him rot there with his money.

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I didn't say bottom of the barrel, though, did I? I said struggling to make the Top 10 which would've put them ahead of 20 other teams in the league without Revis in that scenario - and that might be generous.

But if the Jets are going all out for a Super Bowl this year, they ain't doing it without Darrelle. That's the leverage he brings to a holdout.

wtf. where do you even get that from? you really have no clue how good the defense will be without revis. what ridiculous speculation.

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I didn't say bottom of the barrel, though, did I? I said struggling to make the Top 10 which would've put them ahead of 20 other teams in the league without Revis in that scenario - and that might be generous.

But if the Jets are going all out for a Super Bowl this year, they ain't doing it without Darrelle. That's the leverage he brings to a holdout.

I mentioned bottom of the barrel as a comparison of the Jets 2008 and 2009 defenses. My point being, Revis wasn't enough to make the Jets defenses great in 2008, so he can hardly be given responsibility for all it's success with Rex's arrival. Is the Jets defense better with Revis than without? Of course, I think we just perhaps disagree on the severity. I don't necessarily disagree with what you think Revis' leverage is, I just don't see the incentive for the Jets to give Revis everything he wants just so he does something he's already contractually obligated to do. Revis needs to realize that he's already been given two reasonable options by the Jets (play under the deal you agreed to, or sign what we're offering you, which is still a significant raise), and he's unwilling to do so. He wants what he wants, and seems to be unwilling to concede anything to get it.

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Slats.. I understand what you're saying but how much money is enough? This is a sport for crying out loud.. People work more important and dangerous jobs every day for less money... Revis needs to decide whats more important... Winning or being the highest paid player @ corner back.... We could always trade him to a crummy team like the Browns or Rams for two #1 picks and let him rot there with his money.

Everyone's hung up on this highest paid CB stuff, but so far all that is is a negotiating stance. I've posted numbers in this thread lower than Asomugha's deal that I think would be fair for Revis to accept. There's a middle ground between winning and being the highest paid CB. One that involves winning and still collecting a lot of money.

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Slats.. I understand what you're saying but how much money is enough? This is a sport for crying out loud.. People work more important and dangerous jobs every day for less money... Revis needs to decide whats more important... Winning or being the highest paid player @ corner back.... We could always trade him to a crummy team like the Browns or Rams for two #1 picks and let him rot there with his money.

well said. unfortunately, revis has become more about ego and self than team and winning.

ironically, if he continues to play well he would probably make more in sponsorships than he would ever make in salary.

Edited by rick34125

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If you wish to argue my points, please stop altering my words.

Never said majority of his money as a bonus. Just a healthy bonus. Something in the $15M range, with the next three years exactly as written, and a couple years added on at the end with guarantees voidable by the Jets if Revis opts to hold out again oughta do it.

Have we really moved onto the semantics game now? Fine, sorry for altering your words, but my point still remains. The Jets give Revis bonus money, his per year salary is reduced to compensate for that. At some point he'll hit the low year of his contract and in all likelihood, some player out there will be making more that year than he is. What possible reason do the Jets have to believe he won't hold out? The Jets already gave him guaranteed money up front on this contract and look where it got them, Revis isn't even willing to play for the remaining years that part of that money was meant to be paid out for. At this point, the Jets have no incentive to structure a contract for Revis that way and if they do, don't be surprised if the team insists on a major stipulation in the contract that will severely penalize Revis if he holds out again, because at this point the team has no reason to trust him. Do you really think how the Jets are reportedly structuring Revis' contract has nothing to do with how he's acted over the course of this situation?

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wtf. where do you even get that from? you really have no clue how good the defense will be without revis. what ridiculous speculation.

The Jets defense is built around Revis. The coverage is designed to force the QB to throw to his side of the field, where he's covering the best WR's in the NFL one-on-one - the only CB in the league asked to/or capable of doing that.

Without Revis, the Jets are putting Cromartie on the opposition's #1 WR with safety help over the top. That's one less player available to rush the passer from a defense that struggled to get to the passer last year. So the coverage is of a lower quality, and the pass rush is of a lower quality without Revis - therefore the defense is of a lower quality without Revis. Probably by a very good margin.

Not a ridiculous speculation at all.

Smart coaching is great. Glad to have it. But you need a couple stars out there to execute it. If not Darrelle, then Ray Lewis or Ed Reed.

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lol. the Jets organization is smarter than for what you give them credit.

BINGO!tannenbaum is the untimate chess player/used car salesman.dont think for a second tanny isnt 3 steps ahead of revis and company.at least.i personally know a guy who reminds me very much of tanny.different business,but this kid is far above and beyond everybody else,its sickening.doesnt hit the home run on every deal,but as a whole,3 steps ahead of everybody.

tanny and the jets hold all 52 cards in this deck.revis has zero leverage.revis risks all by holding out.the jets own his tail for 3 years.if the jets are offering a reasonable deal,and revis decideds to hold out,revis will lose big.especially with his team mates during there best chance at a super bowl run in a long time.revis knows this.there might be a short holdout,but revis would be a moron to hold out till aug 10th.plain and simple

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Everyone's hung up on this highest paid CB stuff, but so far all that is is a negotiating stance. I've posted numbers in this thread lower than Asomugha's deal that I think would be fair for Revis to accept. There's a middle ground between winning and being the highest paid CB. One that involves winning and still collecting a lot of money.

But don't you think that these salaries are getting way out of hand? Last time I checked football was a GAME... We can't saddle the team for years to come when the new CBO is put in place... We could end up later with the best corner back in the nfl and a bunch of scrubs paying every other position

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Have we really moved onto the semantics game now? Fine, sorry for altering your words, but my point still remains. The Jets give Revis bonus money, his per year salary is reduced to compensate for that. At some point he'll hit the low year of his contract and in all likelihood, some player out there will be making more that year than he is. What possible reason do the Jets have to believe he won't hold out? The Jets already gave him guaranteed money up front on this contract and look where it got them, Revis isn't even willing to play for the remaining years that part of that money was meant to be paid out for. At this point, the Jets have no incentive to structure a contract for Revis that way and if they do, don't be surprised if the team insists on a major stipulation in the contract that will severely penalize Revis if he holds out again, because at this point the team has no reason to trust him. Do you really think how the Jets are reportedly structuring Revis' contract has nothing to do with how he's acted over the course of this situation?

They should do that. In fact, that's what I said in the post you quoted.

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Question: If someone approached the Jets right now offering 2 first rounders in 2011 would you take it?

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BINGO!tannenbaum is the untimate chess player/used car salesman.dont think for a second tanny isnt 3 steps ahead of revis and company.at least.i personally know a guy who reminds me very much of tanny.different business,but this kid is far above and beyond everybody else,its sickening.doesnt hit the home run on every deal,but as a whole,3 steps ahead of everybody.

tanny and the jets hold all 52 cards in this deck.revis has zero leverage.revis risks all by holding out.the jets own his tail for 3 years.if the jets are offering a reasonable deal,and revis decideds to hold out,revis will lose big.especially with his team mates during there best chance at a super bowl run in a long time.revis knows this.there might be a short holdout,but revis would be a moron to hold out till aug 10th.plain and simple

Yeah, Tannenbaum's a bright guy who knows the ins and outs of all this contract stuff, but all of a sudden he's not smart enough to figure out how to give Revis fair compensation and guarantees?

The big if is if the Jets are offering a reasonable deal. That remains to be seen. We've heard leaks from the Jets that they are, and leaks from Revis that they aren't.

But I definitely think he should be prepared to hold out for the entire season if he chooses to miss a day. He'll get more on the open market than he has coming in guarantees the next three years, anyway. If the Jets don't pay him, another team will be more than happy to.

But don't you think that these salaries are getting way out of hand? Last time I checked football was a GAME... We can't saddle the team for years to come when the new CBO is put in place... We could end up later with the best corner back in the nfl and a bunch of scrubs paying every other position

Doubtful. These guys know what the cap will be. The owners' real squabbles are with each other, but the cap is going to continue going up.

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The Jets defense is built around Revis. The coverage is designed to force the QB to throw to his side of the field, where he's covering the best WR's in the NFL one-on-one - the only CB in the league asked to/or capable of doing that.

Without Revis, the Jets are putting Cromartie on the opposition's #1 WR with safety help over the top. That's one less player available to rush the passer from a defense that struggled to get to the passer last year. So the coverage is of a lower quality, and the pass rush is of a lower quality without Revis - therefore the defense is of a lower quality without Revis. Probably by a very good margin.

Not a ridiculous speculation at all.

Smart coaching is great. Glad to have it. But you need a couple stars out there to execute it. If not Darrelle, then Ray Lewis or Ed Reed.

you're blowing smoke and you need to get over yourself.

i'm sure you also predicted after a careful analysis of their talent that the jets defense would go from being ranked 17th overall in '08 to number 1 last year. :rolleyes:

btw the jets defense was one of the best in the league at putting pressure on the qb and forcing hurried throws, although it didn't show up in sacks, which is a completely over-rated statistic.

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Question: If someone approached the Jets right now offering 2 first rounders in 2011 would you take it?

I love the draft and wouldn't take 5 first rounders for Darrelle Revis. i'd entertain player for player but he'd have to be an all pro defender to even get the conversation started.

as a general note the trading for picks almost never works out. People remember Mike Ditka traded his whole draft for Ricky Williams. Does any1 remember any players the Redskins got in that draft? I'll save you all the google search: No one worth talking about.

Possible GOAT players are not in every draft. Forget all-pro. Revis could be the best cornerback ever. There's a different set of rules for players like Revis and the defense would be mediocre without him.

***

People bring up Rex defenses... Chris McAlister was a 14 overall pick as well and a shut down corner for most of his career. Samari Rolle was on those teams, along with many other great cover players (ED reed?). the truth is no one's ever seen a rex defense with guys who can't cover. We've seen Rex defenses with no names at DL so Jenkins going down, they had a bag of tricks. Rex can't fix a lack of coverage guys, which is why he begs for them to every GM he's ever worked for.

Rex needs Revis. the Jets need at least 3 good corners to beat Manning. This isn't rocket science.

Edited by bitonti

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you're blowing smoke and you need to get over yourself.

i'm sure you also predicted after a careful analysis of their talent that the jets defense would go from being ranked 17th overall in '08 to number 1 last year. :rolleyes:

btw the jets defense was one of the best in the league at putting pressure on the qb and forcing hurried throws, although it didn't show up in sacks, which is a completely over-rated statistic.

I hope the Jets don't give me the opportunity to be proven right. cool.gif

It's not like the Jets were fast getting to the passer, it's that the coverage forced QB's to hold onto the ball longer. But whatever.

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Part of me wants to see a Revis-less Jets this year. We'd still be the number 1 defense in the league.

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Yeah, Tannenbaum's a bright guy who knows the ins and outs of all this contract stuff, but all of a sudden he's not smart enough to figure out how to give Revis fair compensation and guarantees?

The big if is if the Jets are offering a reasonable deal. That remains to be seen. We've heard leaks from the Jets that they are, and leaks from Revis that they aren't.

But I definitely think he should be prepared to hold out for the entire season if he chooses to miss a day. He'll get more on the open market than he has coming in guarantees the next three years, anyway. If the Jets don't pay him, another team will be more than happy to.

Doubtful. These guys know what the cap will be. The owners' real squabbles are with each other, but the cap is going to continue going up.

thats the problem.nobody really knows what the offer were.we have the jets saying 1 thing and revis and company saying another.but if i had to go by track records,i would have to say that i beleive the jets camp more than i would beleive revis's camp.tanny and company have always paid out to players they want.if reports are tru about 12m per,i beleive that is a very reasonable figure.if revis gripe is tru about not having guaranteed $,i beleive the deal will get done

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It's not like the Jets were fast getting to the passer, it's that the coverage forced QB's to hold onto the ball longer. But whatever.

whatever, it's ok, you don't know what you're talking about. :D

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thats the problem.nobody really knows what the offer were.we have the jets saying 1 thing and revis and company saying another.but if i had to go by track records,i would have to say that i beleive the jets camp more than i would beleive revis's camp.tanny and company have always paid out to players they want.if reports are tru about 12m per,i beleive that is a very reasonable figure.if revis gripe is tru about not having guaranteed $,i beleive the deal will get done

I don't know. Tanny has a history with a number of players saying the Jets promised something that they failed to deliver on. Seems like they're quick to pay for UFA talent, not so quick when it comes to paying their own. The contract that D'Brick signed was not a player-friendly deal at all, and I could certainly see Revis turning down anything structured like that.

I'm guessing the Jets can get it done by coming up with more bonus money.

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Everyone's hung up on this highest paid CB stuff, but so far all that is is a negotiating stance. I've posted numbers in this thread lower than Asomugha's deal that I think would be fair for Revis to accept. There's a middle ground between winning and being the highest paid CB. One that involves winning and still collecting a lot of money.

Slats. Read...

The prospect of Darrelle Revis not making roll call when the Jets report for training camp today, first at their Florham Park, N.J., facility in the morning and later in the day at SUNY Cortland, is very real.

In fact, The Post has learned that if the Jets don’t give Revis one more dime than what Oakland’s Nnamdi Asomugha, the highest-paid cornerback in the league, is making in 2010 he plans to hold out.

With the Jets Pro Bowl cornerback having gone to bed last night without the new contract he’s demanding — not to mention any sort of stop-gap offer by Jets management — the situation has grown acrimonious.

People close to Revis believe he has grown agitated at the Jets’ lack of making any sort of effort to appease him.

Though his representatives weren’t available for comment last night, it is believed that the team had not reached out in an 11th-hour bid to make things right.

That has Revis, feeling disrespected by the very team that has told the world he’s the best player at his position, poised to hold out — something that will cast a dark cloud over the team’s camp and, potentially its season.

A few weeks ago, it seemed Revis would be amenable to being given a $10 million salary for 2010 (he’s scheduled to make $1 million) with hopes of working on a long-term deal after the season.

But his recent feeling is that, because the Jets have allowed this to drag on, he needs to be paid more than Asomugha, who averages about $15.3 million per year.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/short_changed_revis_holding_out_4ZWBYL9WoTs2vo5iJ96qhM

Sounds to me like - IF this is true - he's turning into a world-class bitch.

Edited by nycdan

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Slats. Read...

http://www.nypost.co...WoTs2vo5iJ96qhM

Sounds to me like - IF this is true - he's turning into a world-class bitch.

Sounds to me like the Post is doing a lot of speculating. Lots of "It's believed" and "not available" for comment in there. Not a single quote from Revis or his representatives.

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Smart coaching is great. Glad to have it. But you need...

In this system? DB's. Period. It fails without it. See: '07 Ravens.

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If Revis were your son, what would your advice to him be? Would you advise him to play for that $1M? Your son Revis might remind you how his friend Leon Washington bet on himself, got injured, and lost big time. He was in line to make multi-millions, and not will never see that kind of money. Would you want your kid to take that kind of risk, or would you want him to get some security up front first?

I know how I'd be advising my kid.

first of all washington got greedy. he was offered a contract and decided he wanted to force th ejets hand because he wanted even more money. didn't work out too well for him. he's the one who screwed himself there. revis is being greedy as well...if he insists on being paid 16 mil a year when he still has 3 years left on his existing contract he's a retard imo.

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The Jets need Revis more than he needs them. I know most of you dont want to believe that...but this team gets significantly worse without him shutting down one side of the field.

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In this system? DB's. Period. It fails without it. See: '07 Ravens.

Funny cause the Ravens finished 6th in total D with all those injurys and NOBODY playing that season for the most part (outside of the Pats game) that speaks volumes for Rex.

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first of all washington got greedy. he was offered a contract and decided he wanted to force th ejets hand because he wanted even more money. didn't work out too well for him. he's the one who screwed himself there. revis is being greedy as well...if he insists on being paid 16 mil a year when he still has 3 years left on his existing contract he's a retard imo.

there was only 1 guy crazy enough to pay a cb 16m per.he aint called crazy al for nothing.even al realized how crazy he was last year,trying to trade his prized corner back for anything trying to rid his team of his "huge screwed up contract".guess what?no takers.nobody in the nfl(including crazy al himself)is going to 1. trade draft picks for a constant hold out player and 2.pay him any thing close to $16m per.if revis holdsout,it will hurt the jets short term.it is REALLY going to hurt revis

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Funny cause the Ravens finished 6th in total D with all those injurys and NOBODY playing that season for the most part (outside of the Pats game) that speaks volumes for Rex.

Rex doesnt need to coach Revis....Revis just goes out and stays on the teams best WR and shuts them down. You really cant get much more valuable than that. Take that away from the Jets and we have a huge problem

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Im ready to burn my Revis jersey how about you?

You sound like a scorned woman

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Im ready to burn my Revis jersey how about you?

If I had a Revis jersey I would burn it, in fact I would have a long time ago. Alas, I have never owned one, so I can't. I would be willing to burn yours if you would like. :D

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Funny cause the Ravens finished 6th in total D with all those injurys...

Correct. And if you'll notice, it's because the rushing statistics defensively heavily offset the fact that offenses picked them apart through the air over the course of 11 losses. Cleo Lemon lit them up for 3 bills. Cleo Lemon dude.

Edited by RutgersJetFan

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